BmoreBird22's Second Mock Draft

[GrimCoconut]

1 minute ago, ravefan52 said:

Elliott isn't quite on Gurley level for me, but he is close and worlds better than Gordon. Elliot would be a beast and a great fit in our division.

I agree--I just think he's up there in terms of talent. Meaning to say he is much closer to Gurley than Gordon. 

[52520Andrew]

I just don't see a guy worth taking at 6. Don't think you guys are going to be able to change my mind on it. I did not like Gordon really at all last year so I will agree that Elliott is better but I like Buckner and Hargreaves more(in addition to the top 4) and I think Gurley is above him as well.

Now if we are talking more RBs in the first round, next year may be the best RB class in a Long time. You have Fournette who could be the best RB to come out since AP, Cook who will probably be off our board due to DV but is extremely good, and then a guy out of Stanford named Christian McCaffrey who I can't wait to see more of next year after getting a taste of him watching the Rose Bowl. 

[allblackraven]

25 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

I just don't see a guy worth taking at 6. Don't think you guys are going to be able to change my mind on it. I did not like Gordon really at all last year so I will agree that Elliott is better but I like Buckner and Hargreaves more(in addition to the top 4) and I think Gurley is above him as well.

Now if we are talking more RBs in the first round, next year may be the best RB class in a Long time. You have Fournette who could be the best RB to come out since AP, Cook who will probably be off our board due to DV but is extremely good, and then a guy out of Stanford named Christian McCaffrey who I can't wait to see more of next year after getting a taste of him watching the Rose Bowl. 

Nick Chubb started practicing as well after that ugly injury in which he somehow managed to tear all the ligaments except ACL

[usmccharles]

I like the fact that you went a different route, other than that I don't like much about it lol

Elliot no doubt looks like a great talent, I could care less about taking him at #6, if a player is someone who can completely transform your team, you take him.  That being said, ignoring defense in the first two rounds I feel would be a huge mistake.  I understand the Boyd pick and like it, giving us some years with two young WRs to build chemistry with Joe, but wouldn't make that pick while ignoring defense in the first round. 

Assuming Tunsil, Ramsey, Buckner, Jack, Bosa are all off the board, I could live with taking Elliot.  But if Jack was there and we took Elliot I would most likely loose my mind and punch a baby.  I still think Jack and Mosely could massively change this defense, if Jack is even there....

Ive been saying ever since Rice has left we need a playmaker at RB and would love for one here again, just cant see us taking him over all the defensive weapons there. 

[mc_red23]

3 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

I just don't see a guy worth taking at 6. Don't think you guys are going to be able to change my mind on it. I did not like Gordon really at all last year so I will agree that Elliott is better but I like Buckner and Hargreaves more(in addition to the top 4) and I think Gurley is above him as well.

Now if we are talking more RBs in the first round, next year may be the best RB class in a Long time. You have Fournette who could be the best RB to come out since AP, Cook who will probably be off our board due to DV but is extremely good, and then a guy out of Stanford named Christian McCaffrey who I can't wait to see more of next year after getting a taste of him watching the Rose Bowl. 

Echo what you said as I really enjoyed watching McCaffrey on a few occasions last year. He's a really good returner too. 

[ALI624]

Let me ask this, if Gurley and Peters were there at 26 last year who would you take? Just wondering because it seems will could be in a similar situation this year with Elliott and VH3(not saying they are the same players, but it is interesting having a possible choice between RB and CB.) To be honest I have no idea who I would want.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 minutes ago, ALI624 said:

Let me ask this, if Gurley and Peters were there at 26 last year who would you take? Just wondering because it seems will could be in a similar situation this year with Elliott and VH3(not saying they are the same players, but it is interesting having a possible choice between RB and CB.) To be honest I have no idea who I would want.

Tough call. I think i go with Peters because he was the best cb in the class, and was a great scheme fit. Gurley is special but he didn't appear to be much a zone back and we were a zone team, also I wasn't sold on his ability to be more than a pure runner at the time. 

 

Hindisght 2020 I give it to gurley, but at this time a year ago I think I give a slight edge to Peters. 

[BmoreBird22]

9 minutes ago, ALI624 said:

Let me ask this, if Gurley and Peters were there at 26 last year who would you take? Just wondering because it seems will could be in a similar situation this year with Elliott and VH3(not saying they are the same players, but it is interesting having a possible choice between RB and CB.) To be honest I have no idea who I would want.

Gurley for me. You can go back and you won't even find a single quote where I bashed Gurley once. I was always on that train.

It's a tough call, but I had faith in Gurley being the elite three down back and I honestly thought he had a good shot to be there at 26 with his injury, but what ever, things happen.

[BmoreBird22]

6 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I like the fact that you went a different route, other than that I don't like much about it lol

Elliot no doubt looks like a great talent, I could care less about taking him at #6, if a player is someone who can completely transform your team, you take him.  That being said, ignoring defense in the first two rounds I feel would be a huge mistake.  I understand the Boyd pick and like it, giving us some years with two young WRs to build chemistry with Joe, but wouldn't make that pick while ignoring defense in the first round. 

Assuming Tunsil, Ramsey, Buckner, Jack, Bosa are all off the board, I could live with taking Elliot.  But if Jack was there and we took Elliot I would most likely loose my mind and punch a baby.  I still think Jack and Mosely could massively change this defense, if Jack is even there....

Ive been saying ever since Rice has left we need a playmaker at RB and would love for one here again, just cant see us taking him over all the defensive weapons there. 

No one can convince me taking a second 3-4 ILB at 6 is a good idea. 

[JoeyFlex5]

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

No one can convince me taking a second 3-4 ILB at 6 is a good idea. 

Even Myles Jack? I felt the same at one point, but if we took Jack then Mosley can walk after his 5th year option and I'd be fine with it. 

 

After studying Jack a lot more I see a once in a lifetime type of player.. If not for the knee then he could very possibly have been the top player taken.

[GrimCoconut]

12 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

No one can convince me taking a second 3-4 ILB at 6 is a good idea. 

What if we're convinced Jack will be better than Mosley and that he's a Kuechly-type of prospect? 

[BmoreBird22]

8 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Even Myles Jack? I felt the same at one point, but if we took Jack then Mosley can walk after his 5th year option and I'd be fine with it. 

 

After studying Jack a lot more I see a once in a lifetime type of player.. If not for the knee then he could very possibly have been the top player taken.

I think Jack is an excellent player and will be for a long time, but second inside linebackers are just too easy to find if you had a stud at the first stop.

I'm not comparing Mosley to Lewis, but Lewis allowed the Ravens to use whoever they wanted (McClellan, McClain, Scott, Ellerbe, Bynes) and it didn't matter if they were undrafted, like the aforementioned, or not. 

I'd much rather keep up with Mosley since linebackers aren't terribly expensive and draft an offensive play maker, corner, or pass rusher. 

[BmoreBird22]

5 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

What if we're convinced Jack will be better than Mosley and that he's a Kuechly-type of prospect? 

I don't think he can be Kuechly in the 3-4. Now, if the Ravens were all in on the 4-3 (the only issue is linebacker depth), then I'd say hell yeah to Jack. He'd be phenomenal. He just doesn't carry enough value in the 3-4

[GrimCoconut]

9 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't think he can be Kuechly in the 3-4. Now, if the Ravens were all in on the 4-3 (the only issue is linebacker depth), then I'd say hell yeah to Jack. He'd be phenomenal. He just doesn't carry enough value in the 3-4

I understand your point but one thing I'd consider is how rarely we use a traditional 3-4 scheme. Yes, we use a lot of 3-4, more I've seen our DL formation very frequently bring Suggs or another rush LB up to the DL to give us a 4-man front to bring us to a nickel formation. At that point, we either take a LB off the field for a safety or CB, but with Jack we may not have to do that. Or, we could still do that and have a strong coverage unit. 

Just some food  for thought. I don't think it matters because I honestly don't expect Jack to be there for us. I think he'll be gone before we're up unless we trade ahead. 

[KBoum]

16 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I understand your point but one thing I'd consider is how rarely we use a traditional 3-4 scheme. Yes, we use a lot of 3-4, more I've seen our DL formation very frequently bring Suggs or another rush LB up to the DL to give us a 4-man front to bring us to a nickel formation. At that point, we either take a LB off the field for a safety or CB, but with Jack we may not have to do that. Or, we could still do that and have a strong coverage unit. 

Just some food  for thought. I don't think it matters because I honestly don't expect Jack to be there for us. I think he'll be gone before we're up unless we trade ahead. 

yeah and at one point last 2 seasons the base defense was nickle. sort of hybrid nickle with 2-3 D-linemen and edge rushers playing all over the place even at DT but most of the time, 3 CBs and 2 safeties

[Purple_ICE 81]

I see our D taking a bit of a dive if we draft Offense too much. Doubt we have too much of an offensive draft this year outside of O-linemen. I'm sure Harbs Ozzie and Co looked at how the playoffs and Superbowl went down and are absolutely starving for more defensive talent, and there is a lot to choose from at that no 6 pick.

 

As I always say...BPA is BPA, but I'm not sure where they would have EE rated on their big board. EE could end up being a star but it's not hard to find and develop solid RBs. Plus we already have Justin Forsett and someone brought up a good point to me recently that Forsett got blessed with light workloads for the majority of his career and has a pretty clean bill of health if I'm not mistaken. So he's a good bet for a few more solid seasons and beyond him we will have Tailaferro who we are still developing, Buck who showed a few flashes last year, and possibly even a revival of a former top 10 draft choice Trent Richardson. To me we are in a cross that bridge when we get to it scenario for RB, its not worth using the highest pick we have had in 10 years to go out and get a guy when we already have solid production at the position. And also after the signing of Mike Wallace i doubt we draft WR earlier than round 3 or 4...just looking at how the class is weaker than prior years and our draft history, Ozzie likes defense over offense and I feel like we could use a defensive/O-line draft this year just one of the gritty boring drafts that make you scratch your head.

[52520Andrew]

One thing I will throw out there regarding Jack fitting here is that if we are looking to incorporate more of a Tampa 2 style of defense, coverage from the ILB position is going to be very important and I don't know if CJ Mosley is the guys for that role.

[Willbacker]

27 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

One thing I will throw out there regarding Jack fitting here is that if we are looking to incorporate more of a Tampa 2 style of defense, coverage from the ILB position is going to be very important and I don't know if CJ Mosley is the guys for that role.

Mosely is horrible in coverage. He's becoming almost a 2 down LB imo. Wonder if guys like Matakavich,Brothers or even Schobert can drop and cover but I am seriously tired of watching us get shredded in the middle of the field. Maybe Arther Brown will come around lol.

[GrimCoconut]

42 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

Mosely is horrible in coverage. He's becoming almost a 2 down LB imo. Wonder if guys like Matakavich,Brothers or even Schobert can drop and cover but I am seriously tired of watching us get shredded in the middle of the field. Maybe Arther Brown will come around lol.

Some people exaggerate Mosley but this can't be further from the truth. Let's not go from one extreme to another to be different and for the sake of it. 

[usmccharles]

7 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

No one can convince me taking a second 3-4 ILB at 6 is a good idea. 

Ironic since your making the point for a RB at 6 lol.  I feel like Jack would be Matheiu type player and im more than ok with that, but like i said, i dont think he makes it us and if Tunsil, Buckner, Jack, VH3, Ramsey, Bosa are all gone, than i like your Zeke pick, it would definitely be something different and unexpected.  

[Wildabeast88]

On March 27, 2016 at 3:57 PM, 52520Andrew said:

Elliott is not elite at everything though. He is a solid player with no real holes but there is nothing in particular that he does that is elite. He is not an elite pass catcher(in fact people have questions about it), he does not have elite speed, he does not have elite power. He has good vision and pass blocking(so does Taliaferro for all that is worth)

As for RBs that have done well, lets see. Foster, CJ Anderson, Chris Ivory, David Johnson, Gio and Bell obviously, Lamar Miller, Dion Lewis with the Pats could have a great year catching passes, Theo Riddick caught the most passes of all RBs last year, Vereen, Hill, McCoy, Murray, Sproles, Freeman, Lacy, Forte, I could go on. RBs pretty much grow on trees and the only way I take one in the top 10 is if they are a future HOFer. 

And I would take Bosa, Tunsil, Hargreaves, Jack, Buckner, and Ramsey over him. Positional value has nothing to do with it. I think they are better players.

I have driven his train about Elliott. What are your feelings about Gurley because Zeke's numbers are better than Gurley and unlike  Gurley Zeke owned Alabama. 

[Wildabeast88]

9 hours ago, ALI624 said:

Let me ask this, if Gurley and Peters were there at 26 last year who would you take? Just wondering because it seems will could be in a similar situation this year with Elliott and VH3(not saying they are the same players, but it is interesting having a possible choice between RB and CB.) To be honest I have no idea who I would want.

Well this is a little different to me Elliott is better than Gurley and Peters is way better than VH3 I would have taken Peters over Gurley but Elliott over VH3 I have driven the Zeke bandwagon early on but I would take Peters over Elliott  

[52520Andrew]

54 minutes ago, Wildabeast88 said:

I have driven his train about Elliott. What are your feelings about Gurley because Zeke's numbers are better than Gurley and unlike  Gurley Zeke owned Alabama. 

And I have told you before that using pure stats and one game is a terrible way to evaluate a college player. 

[Wildabeast88]

28 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

And I have told you before that using pure stats and one game is a terrible way to evaluate a college player. 

Stats national championship MVP a winner not playing in mediocre bowl games. He is better all around. 3 years worth of stats will back up my argument.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Wildabeast88

[52520Andrew]

Just now, Wildabeast88 said:

Stats national championship MVP a winner no playing in mediocre bowl games. He is better all around. 3 years worth of stats will back up my argument.

Guess we should take Tim Tebow over Andrew Luck as well. 

[Wildabeast88]

Just now, 52520Andrew said:

Guess we should take Tim Tebow over Andrew Luck as well. 

Tebow had A better year than Luck last year. 

[52520Andrew]

1 minute ago, Wildabeast88 said:

Tebow had A better year than Luck last year. 

You really trying to argue Tebow over Luck right now? Tebow didn't play last year, he didn't even make a team.

[Willbacker]

3 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

Some people exaggerate Mosley but this can't be further from the truth. Let's not go from one extreme to another to be different and for the sake of it. 

No sir he was terrible in pass coverage last year. As many times as I got upset with him lol. He needs to work on that part of his game.

[Wildabeast88]

2 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

You really trying to argue Tebow over Luck right now? Tebow didn't play last year, he didn't even make a team.

And Luck was awful got his brains beat in lacerated a Kidney and Tebow made big money talking about football. I'm just saying Zeke can do it all and was a huge success I get Gurley was good but I will take Zeke all day everyday we can agree to disagree but let's look where he goes and put his numbers up to Gurley's I will take my chances

[52520Andrew]

1 minute ago, Wildabeast88 said:

And Luck was awful got his brains beat in lacerated a Kidney and Tebow made big money talking about football. I'm just saying Zeke can do it all and was a huge success I get Gurley was good but I will take Zeke all day everyday we can agree to disagree but let's look where he goes and put his numbers up to Gurley's I will take my chances

As bad as Luck was this year, he completed 55% of his passes which is better than the 47% Tebow completed in his only season of significant snaps on a far better team. I don't care what Tebow made as an announcer, that has literally nothing to do with how good a player he is in the NFL.

Oh I already know that but using box scores and national championships to try to justify him being better is just not how you evaluate players. If stats and national championships are your only argument for why player X is better than player Y, it will be hard for me to take you seriously.