Who did the coaches ask to change positions?

[757RavensFan]

We all know that the Ravens stated that Waller will convert from WR to TE.  But who was the defensive player

that the Ravens ask to change positions and it didn't work out to well for him?  I know they asked Krueger

at one point, but there was another guy on defense and it was a bad decision. 

[berad]

Happens on occasion. The one sticking out to me was Bryan Hall, a defensive tackle, they asked to switch to ILB. He played the preseason there but eventually didn't make the team.

Works out sometimes, Jarret Johnson was a DT when he showed up, too.

[52520Andrew]

McPhee got converted to OLB

[berad]

2 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

McPhee got converted to OLB

Good example, he had the flexibility to do that.

They're grooming Zadarius Smith in a similar way. Didn't work out with John Simon, who was a DE at Ohio State I think.

[757RavensFan]

1 minute ago, berad said:

Good example, he had the flexibility to do that.

They're grooming Zadarius Smith in a similar way. Didn't work out with John Simon, who was a DE at Ohio State I think.

Wish we would have kept him.  He's beasting for the Saints. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Didnt they also ask Albert McLellan to play OLB at one point? I know he has that versatility, but dont believe he fared very well there and for at least a season he was switched there primarily. Could be mis-remembering.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

A position switch that worked out well, but then become a distraction once switched back was Le'Ron McClain. FB, became a primary ball carrier for a season, and then was switched back to only being a FB and started that t-shirt campaign to get carries. He didnt get them, and he wasnt here very much longer as the team went with a FB who wanted to simply crack skulls and plow holes... and a great Raven he was for that short time.

[JoeyFlex5]

Kruger switched from de to olb a lot. So did mcphee. Bryan hall switched from dt to lb. 

 

I personally don't like the Waller move, he's too frail to be a TE imo and his only skill set is speed and reach, he's 6'5" and can run with most db's so I'd much rather see him facing those guys instead of getting hemmed up by big strong lbs and safeties.

[arnie_uk]

thomas played everywhere. Does that count?

[GrimCoconut]

Didn't we play a TE as a DE/OLB during the Harbaugh era? I think it was Davon Drew but I'm not sure. 

[rmw10]

27 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Didn't we play a TE as a DE/OLB during the Harbaugh era? I think it was Davon Drew but I'm not sure. 

Edgar Jones was a 2 way player. Played TE, DE, and OLB. 

[Purple_City39]

2 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

We all know that the Ravens stated that Waller will convert from WR to TE.  But who was the defensive player

that the Ravens ask to change positions and it didn't work out to well for him?  I know they asked Krueger

at one point, but there was another guy on defense and it was a bad decision. 

Are you thinking of Bryan Hall a few years ago?  I think it was in 2010.

In the Harbaugh era, the following players have been asked to change positions at least once.

Bryan Hall - DT to ILB 
Haloti Ngata - DE to DT back to DE
Paul Kruger - DE to DT (not often) to DE to OLB
Jameel McClain - OLB to ILB
Anthony Levine -  S to CB
Pernell McPhee - DE to OLB
Lardarius Webb - TBD but S in college to CB and back to S
Matt Elam - SS in college to FS back to SS 
Will Hill - FS with the Giants to SS in Baltimore

Michael Oher - RT to LT to RT to LT to RT
Kelechi Osemele - RT to LG to LT
Jason Brown - LG to C
Jeremy Zuttah - LG to C
John Urshel - OG to C
Marshal Yanda - RT to RG

These are off the top of my head.  Had this discussion recently on a separate forum after Waller's conversion was announced.  This doesn't always work out too well on defense.  It's about 50-50 on defense but pretty successful on the o-line.  So I'm hoping for Waller's sake it works out for him also.  The Bryan Hall one was horrible since they made him slim down to the ILB size and cut him before the regular season.  He's been in the CFL since

Edited March 22, 2016 by Purple_City39

[allblackraven]

Quite a few of our safeties were asked to play CB at some point during injury ravaged 2014 season. Didn't work out for any of those guys or the team.

Also, Schaub was switched from backup to starting QB. He's much better as a backup.

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

Are you thinking of Bryan Hall a few years ago?  I think it was in 2010.

In the Harbaugh era, the following players have been asked to change positions at least once.

Bryan Hall - DT to ILB 
Haloti Ngata - DE to DT back to DE
Paul Kruger - DE to DT (not often) to DE to OLB
Jameel McClain - OLB to ILB
Anthony Levine -  S to CB
Pernell McPhee - DE to OLB
Lardarius Webb - TBD but S in college to CB and back to S
Matt Elam - SS in college to FS back to SS 
Will Hill - FS with the Giants to SS in Baltimore

Michael Oher - RT to LT to RT to LT to RT
Kelechi Osemele - RT to LG to LT
Jason Brown - LG to C
Jeremy Zuttah - LG to C
John Urshel - OG to C
Marshal Yanda - RT to RG

These are off the top of my head.  Had this discussion recently on a separate forum after Waller's conversion was announced.  This doesn't always work out too well on defense.  It's about 50-50 on defense but pretty successful on the o-line.  So I'm hoping for Waller's sake it works out for him also.  The Bryan Hall one was horrible since they made him slim down to the ILB size and cut him before the regular season.  He's been in the CFL since

Not sure exactly what the OP is requesting here, but a lot of the positions you are referencing are players moving position strictly because of injury, and those moves not being permanent.

I think the point of emphasis is on players who made a permanent position change. Yanda moving right RG to RT because the RT got injured isn't what I consider to be a position change. I would actually dare say that many interior lineman league-wide kick outside to play tackle or play another position on the Oline at some point in their career due to injury.

Can easily see fluctuations like that for linebackers in a 4-3 scheme or even a 3-4 scheme (weak-side moving to middle or strong-side, etc.). You'll also often see a lot of flexibility among 3-4 defensive lineman when there's no standard "nose tackle" around. We've all seen Ngata play DT, NT, and DE in a 3-4 plenty of times here.

I think the emphasis is on players who make a permanent switch to a different position. A lot of the guys on this list don't really qualify there.

Edited March 22, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[Purple_City39]

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Not sure exactly what the OP is requesting here, but a lot of the positions you are referencing are players moving position strictly because of injury, and those moves not being permanent.

I think the point of emphasis is on players who made a permanent position change. Yanda moving right RG to RT because the RT got injured isn't what I consider to be a position change. I would actually dare say that many interior lineman league-wide kick outside to play tackle or play another position on the Oline at some point in their career due to injury.

Can easily see fluctuations like that for linebackers in a 4-3 scheme or even a 3-4 scheme (weak-side moving to middle or strong-side, etc.). You'll also often see a lot of flexibility among 3-4 defensive lineman when there's no standard "nose tackle" around. We've all seen Ngata play DT, NT, and DE in a 3-4 plenty of times here.

I think the emphasis is on players who make a permanent switch to a different position. A lot of the guys on this list don't really qualify there.

You have a point about the injuries thing, which would exclude Urschel and Levine, but not Yanda.  For Yanda, I didn't put RG to RT, I put RT to RG.  He was drafted as a tackle and in 07 under Billick, played some LT and RT (LT in place of Ogden when he got injured).  Harbaugh came and converted him to guard which was a great move.  I can't say what other teams convert their guards to tackle.

With the except of Urschel and Levine, every other change above lasted either an entire season or longer.  And I fully disagree with the statement of flexibility on the line in the 3-4.  Ngata can move to NT or DE but that's not an easy conversion for players.  It's why you'll never see Brandon Williams play an entire season at DE, why Kelly Gregg never played DE and was the reason Ngata even started at DE (Ngata had more athleticism).  There aren't that many Ngata's or Richard Seymour's out there to call 3-4 d-lineman flexible by nature.

[GrimCoconut]

3 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Edgar Jones was a 2 way player. Played TE, DE, and OLB. 

Yep. That's him. I couldn't remember his name but now that you mention it I recall him well. 

[ellicottraven]

6 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

We all know that the Ravens stated that Waller will convert from WR to TE.  But who was the defensive player

that the Ravens ask to change positions and it didn't work out to well for him?  I know they asked Krueger

at one point, but there was another guy on defense and it was a bad decision. 

Can't remember the guy's name off hand but he was a D-Tackle and during the off season lost like 40-50 lbs to become a LBer. He didn't make the team though but was a fan favorite. This was like maybe 3 yrs ago... It was Brian Hall!

Edited March 22, 2016 by ellicottraven

[ellicottraven]

4 hours ago, Purple_City39 said:

Are you thinking of Bryan Hall a few years ago?  I think it was in 2010.

In the Harbaugh era, the following players have been asked to change positions at least once.

Bryan Hall - DT to ILB 
Haloti Ngata - DE to DT back to DE
Paul Kruger - DE to DT (not often) to DE to OLB
Jameel McClain - OLB to ILB
Anthony Levine -  S to CB
Pernell McPhee - DE to OLB
Lardarius Webb - TBD but S in college to CB and back to S
Matt Elam - SS in college to FS back to SS 
Will Hill - FS with the Giants to SS in Baltimore

Michael Oher - RT to LT to RT to LT to RT
Kelechi Osemele - RT to LG to LT
Jason Brown - LG to C
Jeremy Zuttah - LG to C
John Urshel - OG to C
Marshal Yanda - RT to RG

These are off the top of my head.  Had this discussion recently on a separate forum after Waller's conversion was announced.  This doesn't always work out too well on defense.  It's about 50-50 on defense but pretty successful on the o-line.  So I'm hoping for Waller's sake it works out for him also.  The Bryan Hall one was horrible since they made him slim down to the ILB size and cut him before the regular season.  He's been in the CFL since

That's nice what you have on the top of your head man! As for me, bald as an eagle.

[MTRavensFan]

7 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

Wish we would have kept him.  He's beasting for the Saints. 

Texans.

I just about choked on my beer during the playoffs when one of the announcers said "John Simon, outplaying Clowney for the starting role."

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

36 minutes ago, MTRavensFan said:

Texans.

I just about choked on my beer during the playoffs when one of the announcers said "John Simon, outplaying Clowney for the starting role."

Yea, especially since were in need of young pass rushers right now. 

Thought the same thing. Knew he went to Houston but obviously don't get to watch them much and had no idea he was getting so many snaps on that D. 

[757RavensFan]

I wasn't talking about playing a different position to replace a starter who was injured. 

I was talking about when the coaches suggested that a player move to a different position to benefit the team 

and that's players chances of playing. 

Thanks all, it was Brian Hall who I was thinking of. 

[rmcjacket23]

17 hours ago, Purple_City39 said:

You have a point about the injuries thing, which would exclude Urschel and Levine, but not Yanda.  For Yanda, I didn't put RG to RT, I put RT to RG.  He was drafted as a tackle and in 07 under Billick, played some LT and RT (LT in place of Ogden when he got injured).  Harbaugh came and converted him to guard which was a great move.  I can't say what other teams convert their guards to tackle.

With the except of Urschel and Levine, every other change above lasted either an entire season or longer.  And I fully disagree with the statement of flexibility on the line in the 3-4.  Ngata can move to NT or DE but that's not an easy conversion for players.  It's why you'll never see Brandon Williams play an entire season at DE, why Kelly Gregg never played DE and was the reason Ngata even started at DE (Ngata had more athleticism).  There aren't that many Ngata's or Richard Seymour's out there to call 3-4 d-lineman flexible by nature.

The reason you'll never see Brandon Williams play DE is because he's a prototype NT in a 3-4... Ngata was not. There aren't a lot of prototype 3-4 NTs in this league to begin with, which is why a good number of teams can lineup 3-4 DLineman at DE, DT, or NT.

Considering how most teams use a 3-4 (as more of a hybrid scheme), there really isn't a whole lot of difference between a DE and a DT in those schemes, which is why you see so much flexibility from teams. I'd say more teams than not don't have a prototype 3-4 NT like we do, hence we we had to move Ngata around so much later in his career.

As for the rest of the list, about half of them actually made position changes, and a lot of it depended on where they were playing in college, which isn't really that relevant. Elam might have played FS in college, but nobody cared, because at no time did the NFL team that drafted him think he was going to be a FS or even want him there. He played FS his rookie year because 1. he was beaten out in a competition in camp for the SS by Ihedigbo (probably should have been a red flag for us to begin with) and 2. we found out quickly just how horrific Huff was. Like offensive line, its more about getting your best players on the field than it is official depth charts, hence why Elam went to FS for that season only.

In the grand scheme of things, positional changes in the secondary mean relatively nothing to me, especially when comparing college to the pros. Plus, these days, there really isn't a ton of difference in responsibilities between FS and SS. The days of the Ed Reed vs Bernard Pollard divided roles are over in this league for now.

[Halshayeji]

20 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

Wish we would have kept him.  He's beasting for the Saints. 

I know Im going off topic a bit. It scares the living crap out of me to know that this year we will be forced to place so many drafted players on the PS.

[berad]

13 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

I know Im going off topic a bit. It scares the living crap out of me to know that this year we will be forced to place so many drafted players on the PS.

They should expand the roster sizes by at least 3-4, imo. But that's just my opinion.

[JoeyFlex5]

13 hours ago, MTRavensFan said:

Texans.

I just about choked on my beer during the playoffs when one of the announcers said "John Simon, outplaying Clowney for the starting role."

The John Simon release was incredibly premature. Still a move that has me asking questions. I thought the odds of him earning a full time role as our edge rusher were slim to none but he was still a very high character and high motor and smart player, at the very least you work with him for his full rookie deal and see what happens. Arthur brown definitely should have went before him because he has shown no mental capacity, that's a steeper curve than a smart guy who is a bit undersized and raw.

[Purple_City39]

21 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

The John Simon release was incredibly premature. Still a move that has me asking questions. I thought the odds of him earning a full time role as our edge rusher were slim to none but he was still a very high character and high motor and smart player, at the very least you work with him for his full rookie deal and see what happens. Arthur brown definitely should have went before him because he has shown no mental capacity, that's a steeper curve than a smart guy who is a bit undersized and raw.

From a Ravens organizational perspective, I somewhat understand what they did but it sucked.  2014 was Simon's second year.  We had Suggs, Dumervil, and McPhee as the pass rushing OLBs with Upshaw also in the mix.  Baltimore rarely keeps more than 4 OLBs on the active roster.  It caught me off guard when Houston stole him off the practice squad, especially since you could tell the intent was to use him down the line.

Simon had a mean spin move in preseason, almost Dwight Freeney-esque, that just told the world he'd be good.  They gambled and lost badly

Edited March 23, 2016 by Purple_City39

[rmw10]

35 minutes ago, berad said:

They should expand the roster sizes by at least 3-4, imo. But that's just my opinion.

It wouldn't surprise me to see them go to 55 in the next couple of years. I'm doubtful they want to let it get much higher than that, though. 

[berad]

3 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

It wouldn't surprise me to see them go to 55 in the next couple of years. I'm doubtful they want to let it get much higher than that, though. 

It's tough with a mounting number of injuries and an ever-increasing salary cap. I'd say the talent pool is there to afford 96-128 bonafide players in the league.

You're probably right that it will just be a smaller jump, though.

[rmcjacket23]

47 minutes ago, berad said:

It's tough with a mounting number of injuries and an ever-increasing salary cap. I'd say the talent pool is there to afford 96-128 bonafide players in the league.

You're probably right that it will just be a smaller jump, though.

Not sure that would translate into gameday expansion of rosters... if it did I would think you'd add 1-2 players at most to the gameday roster.

Outside of that, I don't really see the point. I'd get it if anybody thought the 60th guy would be a legitimate different maker, but most teams struggle to find 50 quality players these days.

[berad]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Not sure that would translate into gameday expansion of rosters... if it did I would think you'd add 1-2 players at most to the gameday roster.

Outside of that, I don't really see the point. I'd get it if anybody thought the 60th guy would be a legitimate different maker, but most teams struggle to find 50 quality players these days.

Expanded reverses of players due to injury. The gameday rosters would go up as well but I'm not as worried about that, I don't remember a time when a team got so low at a certain position that they pulled in an 'emergency' player ala playing a TE at LT. When a specialist goes down you see that, though.

It's the circumstances where teams have to, almost literally, sign someone off the street. We've had to do that more than a few times. Most of the time it's a vet you know you can coach them up to where they can play soon - Jason Babin, Shareece Wright, etc. In an expanded roster, maybe a player like Campanaro or Waller who had relatively minor, recoverable injuries would have been spared from IR instead of sacrificed to bring in players to help win now.

Injuries look to be on the rise, more time is being missed because of them - http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/nfl-injuries-part-ii-variation-over-time