Play Ozzie for the day and trade for Joe Thomas

[JoeyFlex5]

6 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I understand what your saying, but franchises who do that end up costing themselves in the future. 

Say we make the trade, then Thomas retires in 2 years.  If we would have kept our pick that player would still have another 2 years on contract with an option.  Might not happen, but it could.  We dont know what Thomas' future would hold, he has never missed a game which is awesome, if he could promise hes not going to get hurt and play here for the next 6 years, then im game.....but he cant do that.  Lot of "ifs"

Not to mention He cost roughly 9mill a year, we only have 7 mill in cap space.  Cut Monroe, thats what 2 mill, cant remember. 

The point im making is that to avoid the terrible down years or rebuilding phases teams have to keep bringing in young talent, giving up a first rounder, no matter where it is, just takes one more young potential future Raven off the board.  Im not willing to take the chance of not landing a young stud in the first round to get an expensive 32 year old LT for 3 years give or take, but thats just me.  I know what kind of poster you are and agree with you on a lot of things, just not this one. 

There's 2 ways of looking at it lol not everyone has to agree. I understand the risks as well but at the same time we could use that pick on another Elam or kindle just as easily. Its all about risk vs reward in every move made in football

[usmccharles]

Just now, JoeyFlex5 said:

There's 2 ways of looking at it lol not everyone has to agree. I understand the risks as well but at the same time we could use that pick on another Elam or kindle just as easily. Its all about risk vs reward in every move made in football

Completely agree.  So if im Oz, i do absolutely nothing lol. 

How long do you see him continuing to play?

[rmcjacket23]

16 minutes ago, beanfigger said:

Sounds like we're on the same page. We're pretending to be Ozzie in this thread, so obviously we're talking about what the Ravens should offer.

 

Also, the Richardson thing isn't so much setting the standard for what we should offer as it does for what they would accept. There is little to no reason for the Browns to just give away their best player. If we are really playing the game of pretending to be a GM who wants to actually make this trade, then we need to consider it from their side. He's not a locker room cancer, and he isn't chewing up so much cap that they can't do anything else to improve. The only reason they'd give him up is if they really feel like the return improves them significantly. Late round picks do not accomplish that, in my opinion.

Yes, though the elephant in the room is that the Browns are essentially under (another) new regime, with evidently putting significant emphasis on analytics. As such, I would bet that paying near top dollar for a player who is in his early to mid 30s isn't exactly something the Browns are interested in. I've said this for years... I never thought paying a LT top tier money and having a great LT was that significant for a team when you don't have a QB... just doesn't seem like a good investment to me. They've tried to find a QB, but Joe Thomas has wasted a lot of his career blocking for nobodies, and he may very well finish that way.

Its an interesting time for them. A lot of people (myself included) bash them for literally retaining practically none of their FAs this season, despite the fact that they had plenty of money and cap space to do so. Yet, its sort of ironic to do so, as the it doesn't make a ton of sense to retain a bunch of players who have been here for years and all they've ever done is field losing football teams year after year.

By what I've read from what certain "experts" suggest the analytics will tell them, its likely that they head into a phase where they put a ton of emphasis on the draft and often let many of their own quality draft picks walk after their rookie deal, depending on age and production. 

If that were true, it would make sense for the Browns to want draft picks for Thomas. Perhaps they feel that getting a couple 3rd rounders is a better deal than getting one 2nd or even a late 1st. That would depend on how confident they feel with their talent evaluation and draft skills.

Historically, they've sucked at the draft (or at least recently), so time will tell if that's a smart strategy or not. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[JoeyFlex5]

8 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Completely agree.  So if im Oz, i do absolutely nothing lol. 

How long do you see him continuing to play?

I see another 4 years of starting for him. He hasn't had a long injury history is anything and has shown no signs of slowing down. Healthy o linemen can last a long time. 

 

But then again were talking about predicting the future here, so there's no point in taking anyone's word for it lol

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

On 3/22/2016 at 11:22 AM, beanfigger said:

Sounds like we're on the same page. We're pretending to be Ozzie in this thread, so obviously we're talking about what the Ravens should offer.

 

Also, the Richardson thing isn't so much setting the standard for what we should offer as it does for what they would accept. There is little to no reason for the Browns to just give away their best player. If we are really playing the game of pretending to be a GM who wants to actually make this trade, then we need to consider it from their side. He's not a locker room cancer, and he isn't chewing up so much cap that they can't do anything else to improve. The only reason they'd give him up is if they really feel like the return improves them significantly. Late round picks do not accomplish that, in my opinion.

I think theres incentive for the Browns to deal him. $9m in cap space and the opportunity to draft additional players who actually have the potential to make an impact for the team when they actually will be relevant.

As it stands now, Thomas, while still a dominant player, can be as dominant as he wants.... its not going to contribute to winning. And I think they realize that with the rebuild theyre going into. And by the time that rebuild process is in the next phase of trying to compete Thomas' contract will be over, much older, and not the same player.

If they can move him now it makes more sense to do so than to keep him. I would say, there's almost no incentive to keeping him other than to mentor younger lineman who are going to be a part of that next phase.... but ive never really placed a whole lot of value into that mentor idea especially when a team is garbage.

For them, it's all about acquiring assets that can contribute to a winning program in 2-3 years. So, anyone thats on the current roster that isnt likely to be a part of that future plan - the FO will view their value as the draft picks they can get in exchange for them. 

Actually, keeping Thomas almost hinders them from moving on and identifying who can be their future at LT, bc almost no one other than a guy like Tunsil is going to displace Thomas, and even if they did it makes no sense to have a guy of his caliber and salary on the bench.

So every incentive is there to move him imo.

Edited March 23, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[cobrajet]

I would love to have Joe Thomas, as I see a quality LT as priority #1 for us, but I just do not see the Browns trading him to us (a hated rival) for anything that Ozzie would be willing to give up. Would love to see it but think it is too out of the realm of possibilities.

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

Im not trying to argue wether it was a first and a third for mankins and a fourth or a first and second. I'm just saying that they were reports and not confirmed. Confirmed would be us seing a trade materialize or an executive from one of the teams confirming how far apart the two teams were. The Broncos may have been willing to overpay then because of the factors at that time but won't now. Even then they weren't willing to trade more than a late first and second that's if the reports were accurate and not just information released by the Browns to increase joes trade value. Just to be clear, our 6th overall 2016 pick is worth the Broncos 1st round pick in 2016,17,and 18. That's not my estimation it's a fact based on the draft value chart.

Leme ask you this. If the Broncos really offered a first and a second and the Browns were ok if they added a third. Wouldn't they have found a common ground? It's like me willing to pay 1000 dollars for a watch but refuse to pay 8 percent tax. 

Midseason trades are always inflated. Richardson specifically exploded but that's not a great example. Look at all the midseason trades and compare them to offseason acuisitions. The Ravens traded for givens with one year left on his contract for a 6th. That same offseason guys like D Jackson and B Marshall were traded for similar value. It's just the nature of the NFL when you seek a midseason trade. I can go on and on with examples.

 

i agree comparing Richardson to Thomas is like comparing apples to oranges. I used mankins because he was about the same age when traded, Thomas made 9 pro bowls and mankins made 7, both were first round picks. Mankins inherited salary was 6 mil 7 mil and 7 mil. Thomas inherited salary would be around 8 mil 8.5 and 8.5.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that the Browns asked for way too much then and now Thomas is a year older and a year closer to Father Time knocking. His trade value has already dropped and will continue to drop mostly because of his age. His value on the field has not dropped much obviously but the idea of giving up a first round pick becomes harder and harder for any GM in the league. The Browns better get what they can now or risk loosing him for close to nothing one year from today.

 

If the Ravens decide to slightly overpay to get Thomas then I'm all in because he would help this team greatly in 2016. If the Browns ask for our 6th overall pick then they'd be in lala land. The Ravens have other options. No one is that desperate.

First, don't go off the trade value chart. It's fluid from draft to draft. In 2013, the Dolphins gave up a second or third rounder (don't remember which) to love from 12 to 3. Just one pick that wasn't a future first. The year prior, the Redskins sold out on multiple first and second round pucks to move up to 2.

Second, the Browns were asking for two firsts, so to almost agree upon a first, second, and third is middle ground, but would you want to give up three top 100 picks with some big impending free agents like Marshall, Trevathan, Jackson, and no good quarterback on the roster? Probably not. 

So, give me examples of in season trades that had inflated value. Marshall, Zuttah, Boldin, all fetched late rounders and that's likely what it would be in season. Give me another example other than Richardson of a major coup for a player that probably wasn't worth much.

And you can't just compare salary for Thomas and Mankins because the Browns have over $30M in cap space. I'm sure the Patriots had no where near that and needed the money. The Browns do not.

And yes, it is confirmed that the Browns were asking for two firsts or a first, second, and third. There are multiple insiders who confirmed this. Just because Brown or Elway never confirmed it means very little because neither denied it, either. No reason to confirm something that didn't happen, but they're usually quick to deny false reports.

We can't say his value drops with age because we have seen no indication that his play will drop. He's not someone relying on athleticism or extreme strength; he's a technician with near perfect technique in every phase. He could last for four, five more years.

And the sixth pick is probably what he's worth if they got picks back because he's probably better than anyone available at 6 and he's a guarantee, unlike a prospect who hasn't played an NFL snap.

[beanfigger]

6 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I think theres incentive for the Browns to deal him. $9m in cap space and the opportunity to draft additional players who actually have the potential to make an impact for the team when they actually will be relevant.

As it stands now, Thomas, while still a dominant player, can be as dominant as he wants.... its not going to contribute to winning. And I think they realize that with the rebuild theyre going into. And by the time that rebuild process is in the next phase of trying to compete Thomas' contract will be over, much older, and not the same player.

If they can move him now it makes more sense to do so than to keep him. I would say, there's almost no incentive to keeping him other than to mentor younger lineman who are going to be a part of that next phase.... but ive never really placed a whole lot of value into that mentor idea especially when a team is garbage.

For them, it's all about acquiring assets that can contribute to a winning program in 2-3 years. So, anyone thats on the current roster that isnt likely to be a part of that future plan - the FO will view their value as the draft picks they can get in exchange for them. 

I don't disagree with what you said, just the conclusion you draw from it. If Joe Thomas gets shopped around for real, there is no way the best offer they get is one or two late-round picks. I'm saying if we want him, we'd have to offer more. And if in some oddity we were the only team offering and all we offered was a 4th and a 6th, I don't think that provides enough incentive for them to make the move. They don't need the cap space. In fact, if they dump all their remaining big contracts like that, they might have a tough time reaching the minimum. His contract is a complete non-issue from their side of things.

Edited March 22, 2016 by beanfigger

[arnie_uk]

18 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

This isn't MLB or the NBA. Rarely happens in the NFL.

Are you this serious in real life? Your a barrel of laughs!

[Halshayeji]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

First, don't go off the trade value chart. It's fluid from draft to draft. In 2013, the Dolphins gave up a second or third rounder (don't remember which) to love from 12 to 3. Just one pick that wasn't a future first. The year prior, the Redskins sold out on multiple first and second round pucks to move up to 2.

Second, the Browns were asking for two firsts, so to almost agree upon a first, second, and third is middle ground, but would you want to give up three top 100 picks with some big impending free agents like Marshall, Trevathan, Jackson, and no good quarterback on the roster? Probably not. 

So, give me examples of in season trades that had inflated value. Marshall, Zuttah, Boldin, all fetched late rounders and that's likely what it would be in season. Give me another example other than Richardson of a major coup for a player that probably wasn't worth much.

And you can't just compare salary for Thomas and Mankins because the Browns have over $30M in cap space. I'm sure the Patriots had no where near that and needed the money. The Browns do not.

And yes, it is confirmed that the Browns were asking for two firsts or a first, second, and third. There are multiple insiders who confirmed this. Just because Brown or Elway never confirmed it means very little because neither denied it, either. No reason to confirm something that didn't happen, but they're usually quick to deny false reports.

We can't say his value drops with age because we have seen no indication that his play will drop. He's not someone relying on athleticism or extreme strength; he's a technician with near perfect technique in every phase. He could last for four, five more years.

And the sixth pick is probably what he's worth if they got picks back because he's probably better than anyone available at 6 and he's a guarantee, unlike a prospect who hasn't played an NFL snap.

It seems that were just going around in circles now lol. I guess we gotta agree to disagree on this one. Thank god we don't have to make a decision like this. Good talk bro you made a lot of good points

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

It seems that were just going around in circles now lol. I guess we gotta agree to disagree on this one. Thank god we don't have to make a decision like this. Good talk bro you made a lot of good points

Honestly, this would be one of the hardest trades to make. Anything involving a first would be hard as hell

[omar586]

no way in world the brownies would trade Joe thomas to the ravens.

[flynismo]

I don't see any way this trade could happen to the satisfaction of both teams. Realistically, we'd offer something like a 2nd and 4th, and maybe throw in a player. Someone would outbid us. Even if somehow our offer was among the best, CLE would take one of the other similar offers that are out of division...if they accepted an offer like that at all

Edited March 23, 2016 by flynismo

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

22 hours ago, beanfigger said:

I don't disagree with what you said, just the conclusion you draw from it. If Joe Thomas gets shopped around for real, there is no way the best offer they get is one or two late-round picks. I'm saying if we want him, we'd have to offer more. And if in some oddity we were the only team offering and all we offered was a 4th and a 6th, I don't think that provides enough incentive for them to make the move. They don't need the cap space. In fact, if they dump all their remaining big contracts like that, they might have a tough time reaching the minimum. His contract is a complete non-issue from their side of things.

I hear you on the minimum... and youre right in that it probably wouldnt be the best deal they can get.

But if the options are keep him until his contract runs out and get absolutely nothing from him... or get a mid-round or a couple mid-round picks... the mid rounds pick are a much better option.

Mid round picks, and even late round picks at least have a chance to contribute to the team in the next 2-5 years. There's almost 0 chance that Thomas will. And if everyone realizes that the Browns have no real incentive to keep him and their best option is to move on from him, it doesnt make much sense to offer up a ton of value for him.

Of course someone might... but if I'm the Browns, he's really the one player you have that can get you draft assets. The longer they wait, the older he gets and the easier it is to just wait for his contract to run out, so the less they are going to get in return.

If someone offered up a 3rd, or 4th and 5th.... and no one else is really interested - if I was the GM I'd definitely take it. Not bc of the cap space, but bc those picks have an infinitely higher chance of being a part of my team in a few years. And the more picks I have the more likely i am to hit on players... or I can more easily package picks to target guys I covet.

I cant say for sure what his value is in draft pick compensation... but if my options are a 4th and 6th or nothing? I'm taking the picks. If the offer is a 3rd? Im taking the 3rd. Sure, Id prefer a 1st but im extremely doubtful that anyone is going to offer that for a guy his age and when everyone knows the Browns are in full blown rebuild mode, and arent in a position to hang on to depreciating assets.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

7 hours ago, flynismo said:

I don't see any way this trade could happen to the satisfaction of both teams. Realistically, we'd offer something like a 2nd and 4th, and maybe throw in a player. Someone would outbid us. Even if somehow our offer was among the best, CLE would take one of the other similar offers that are out of division...if they accepted an offer like that at all

I honestly dont think anyone would offer that much. Bad teams arent close enough to competing for an aging LT to be the key piece they need for a championship; and the good teams didnt get that way by giving away high picks for depreciating players.

The Browns are in rebuild mode, and need as many assets that can help the team in 2-5 years as possible. Thomas definitely isnt a part of that long term plan, and is one of the only player assets they have that can be turned into draft picks. There is no value to them to keep him for 2 years and let that contract expire.

I think its a prime situation for someone to fleece the Browns bc theyre really not in a position to play hard ball. If they do, sure they can keep him for 2 years and have a dominant LT; but that wont help them win, and he'll leave in FA at that point and wont contribute once they become relevant if ever.

Their only smart play is to deal him, and as quickly as possible to the highest bidder. The longer they keep him the less value he has bc then you can just wait for his contract to expire and land him in FA, plus hes a year older. Smart GM's should know that, and should play hardball on their end. Only way that happens is in a bidding war, but i just dont see any team thats a LT away from contending other than maybe us. And Oz isnt giving up those picks.

If the Browns can get 2 mid round picks for him, similar to what we gave up to get Monroe... i think theyd take it once they realize theyre not going to get what they want. I expect him to be moved by the trade deadline this season.

Edited March 23, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[Supychou]

Yes, instead of wasting time and picks, let's just wait for Clady to be cut by Denver.
Then, we can bring him for much less (1 year prove deal) without costing us anything.

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I honestly dont think anyone would offer that much. Bad teams arent close enough to competing for an aging LT to be the key piece they need for a championship; and the good teams didnt get that way by giving away high picks for depreciating players.

The Browns are in rebuild mode, and need as many assets that can help the team in 2-5 years as possible. Thomas definitely isnt a part of that long term plan, and is one of the only player assets they have that can be turned into draft picks. There is no value to them to keep him for 2 years and let that contract expire.

I think its a prime situation for someone to fleece the Browns bc theyre really not in a position to play hard ball. If they do, sure they can keep him for 2 years and have a dominant LT; but that wont help them win, and he'll leave in FA at that point and wont contribute once they become relevant if ever.

Their only smart play is to deal him, and as quickly as possible to the highest bidder. Smart GM's should know that, and should play hardball on their end. Only way that happens is in a bidding war, but i just dont see any team thats a LT away from contending other than maybe us. And Oz isnt giving up those picks.

He would help any QB they are going to draft and he sure as hell would help an injury prone RG3 or happy feet keap if they decide to trade for him.

Would be very wise to keep him or get premium value back unless they plan on leaving the QB position as it is.

It would be dumb to trade him for cheap when there really is no need to do so.

They have the cap to keep him around and the man might want to retire a brown so i really dont see why they would have to worry for him leaving 2 years from now.

A lot can happen in those 2 years.

Heck he might get sold on Hue jackson approach and well he can be like JO and protect the new kid till its time to retire.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

31 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

He would help any QB they are going to draft and he sure as hell would help an injury prone RG3 or happy feet keap if they decide to trade for him.

Would be very wise to keep him or get premium value back unless they plan on leaving the QB position as it is.

It would be dumb to trade him for cheap when there really is no need to do so.

They have the cap to keep him around and the man might want to retire a brown so i really dont see why they would have to worry for him leaving 2 years from now.

A lot can happen in those 2 years.

Heck he might get sold on Hue jackson approach and well he can be like JO and protect the new kid till its time to retire.

Are they going to win with Kaep, RGIII, or a rookie QB this year?

Have a guy that can protect a QB who isnt going to win any way bc there are too many other holes on the roster? Or, trade that guy in exchange for a few picks that might actually turn into players who can help one of those guys win in a few years when it matters?

I'd rather even get a depth corner and maybe someone who can compete at guard (just for an example) in 3 years than have Thomas for the next 2 years if I'm the Browns.

But - different strokes for different folks. They've had him all this time, and some years a whole heck of a lot more talent than they have now.... tons of QB's have played there with Thomas and none of them have been protected well bc the line is a unit. If I can leverage Thomas into 2 average starting lineman in 3 years; thats the better move.

[757RavensFan]

40 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Are they going to win with Kaep, RGIII, or a rookie QB this year?

Have a guy that can protect a QB who isnt going to win any way bc there are too many other holes on the roster? Or, trade that guy in exchange for a few picks that might actually turn into players who can help one of those guys win in a few years when it matters?

I'd rather even get a depth corner and maybe someone who can compete at guard (just for an example) in 3 years than have Thomas for the next 2 years if I'm the Browns.

But - different strokes for different folks. They've had him all this time, and some years a whole heck of a lot more talent than they have now.... tons of QB's have played there with Thomas and none of them have been protected well bc the line is a unit. If I can leverage Thomas into 2 average starting lineman in 3 years; thats the better move.

Considering he's 3 years removed from almost winning the Super Bowl, I do think they can win with Kaepernick if he gets his head out of the clouds. 

[flynismo]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Are they going to win with Kaep, RGIII, or a rookie QB this year?

Have a guy that can protect a QB who isnt going to win any way bc there are too many other holes on the roster? Or, trade that guy in exchange for a few picks that might actually turn into players who can help one of those guys win in a few years when it matters?

I don't like this line of thinking; rebuild mode or not, all teams need to start somewhere and have a foundation to build a team upon. QB and LT are the two most important players on offense (arguably on the field, period); it's all the more reason to only let him go if the price is right.

[rmcjacket23]

14 minutes ago, flynismo said:

I don't like this line of thinking; rebuild mode or not, all teams need to start somewhere and have a foundation to build a team upon. QB and LT are the two most important players on offense (arguably on the field, period); it's all the more reason to only let him go if the price is right.

Generally, I agree.

The problem is, depending on what happens this season and what Cleveland does at the QB position, its possible right around the time they develop a QB you need to draft and develop another LT, given Thomas' age.

Kind of like the notion that we are in danger of having Joe go primarily all of his career without much, if any, stability at LT. The Browns are doing the exact opposite, though it partially shows have much more valuable QB is than LT.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

57 minutes ago, flynismo said:

I don't like this line of thinking; rebuild mode or not, all teams need to start somewhere and have a foundation to build a team upon. QB and LT are the two most important players on offense (arguably on the field, period); it's all the more reason to only let him go if the price is right.

I totally agree... but i dont think a 32 year old player with 2 years left on his deal is a foundational player for a team with so few core pieces.

I think you're better off flipping the player to accumulate as many assets as you can that can turn into foundational players going forward. 

Kind of like Jax did with Monroe and others. Ship em off for picks... and now theyve got younger pieces on the line, at QB, WR, RB... now the time is for them to start resigning guys to bigger deals and maybe acquire some vets to solidify the foundation.

To me, a guy in his 30's with only a year or 2 left with you has almost no value on the team.... and if you can flip him for picks its worth it every time.

If I'm tearing my house down to the foundation, I'm replacing my foundation with fresh new concrete that has a 5-10 year lifespan rather than building new on the worn down old one that isnt going to last as long as i need the house to bc then once you get to where you want to be, you've got a replace a huge piece of your success... and if you fail there you've now wasted a window to compete.

Edited March 23, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[Tru11]

2 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I totally agree... but i dont think a 32 year old player with 2 years left on his deal is a foundational player for a team with so few core pieces.

I think you're better off flipping the player to accumulate as many assets as you can that can turn into foundational players going forward. 

Kind of like Jax did with Monroe and others. Ship em off for picks... and now theyve got younger pieces on the line, at QB, WR, RB... now the time is for them to start resigning guys to bigger deals and maybe acquire some vets to solidify the foundation.

To me, a guy in his 30's with only a year or 2 left with you has almost no value on the team.... and if you can flip him for picks its worth it every time.

If I'm tearing my house down to the foundation, I'm replacing my foundation with fresh new concrete that has a 5-10 year lifespan rather than building new on the worn down old one that isnt going to last as long as i need the house to bc then once you get to where you want to be, you've got a replace a huge piece of your success... and if you fail there you've now wasted a window to compete.

 

How we did with JO and flacco is actually a good example of what the browns could and should do with Thomas and whatever QB they draft.

There is no guaranteed what so ever that who they draft with the picks they get in any trade would amount to anything.

Heck given their track record with picks they got through trades , odds are they will miss rather then get players they can build a foundation with tbh lol.

They dont appear to have the LT of the future on the roster , which jags did have when they traded monroe.

Unless they are banking on Tunsil to be their at their 2nd pick and whatever QB they want to be their in round , its really not a good idea to trade your best o-liner and have whoever is going to be playing QB to run for his life.

The best gift you can give a QB is a top 3 LT TBH.

 

 

[flynismo]

34 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

The best gift you can give a QB is a top 3 LT TBH.

Thats what it all comes down to for me; a strong OL makes any QB / RB perform at a much higher level than they otherwise would. It elevates the entire offense; so you don't need to pray to get a 2012 Peyton Manning, just find a competent QB and a strong defense.

[flynismo]

3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

If I'm tearing my house down to the foundation, I'm replacing my foundation with fresh new concrete that has a 5-10 year lifespan rather than building new on the worn down old one that isnt going to last as long as i need the house to bc then once you get to where you want to be, you've got a replace a huge piece of your success... and if you fail there you've now wasted a window to compete.

I understand that point fully...but -- there's no warranty on that new slab of concrete. Maybe it was sourced from China, and doesn't perform to the standards of the existing foundation. Never ever a good idea to bank on replacing an elite player with another one.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

7 minutes ago, flynismo said:

I understand that point fully...but -- there's no warranty on that new slab of concrete. Maybe it was sourced from China, and doesn't perform to the standards of the existing foundation. Never ever a good idea to bank on replacing an elite player with another one.

I can agree with that too... But it's a near 100% certainty that no matter what QB they move fwd with Thomas isn't going to be there for his prime years. 

We held on to Ogden, and I'm not going to sit here and say we should've traded him or keeping him was a mistake... But we've been trying to find even an average replacement ever since. 

But it's not just about replacing an elite LT with another... But if you can trade that elite LT for 2 good players at other positions on the line you can succeed without that 1 elite player. 

I think when building it's more important to be solid across the board than have a few elite players and weaknesses elsewhere. And then once you have that solid foundation you can worry about adding those couple elite players to put you over the top. 

For example I'd personally take Wagner and Urschel type players on 4 yr rookie deals that I can prob resign beyond that than one Joe Thomas at a big salary that I can only have for 2 years, especially when my plan is to try and compete 2 years down the road. 

[Tru11]

7 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I can agree with that too... But it's a near 100% certainty that no matter what QB they move fwd with Thomas isn't going to be there for his prime years. 

We held on to Ogden, and I'm not going to sit here and say we should've traded him or keeping him was a mistake... But we've been trying to find even an average replacement ever since. 

But it's not just about replacing an elite LT with another... But if you can trade that elite LT for 2 good players at other positions on the line you can succeed without that 1 elite player. 

I think when building it's more important to be solid across the board than have a few elite players and weaknesses elsewhere. And then once you have that solid foundation you can worry about adding those couple elite players to put you over the top. 

For example I'd personally take Wagner and Urschel type players on 4 yr rookie deals that I can prob resign beyond that than one Joe Thomas at a big salary that I can only have for 2 years, especially when my plan is to try and compete 2 years down the road. 

well the fact that we are still looking for a replacement for JO says enough on the value of a premium LT.

you are not going to compete 2 years down the road when you let your young QB gets abused for 2 whole years because you traded your Elite LT for some mid round picks that rarely amount to much.

if you want to compete then the first thing you need to do is find a QB and then make him as comfortable as possible to learn the pro game and keep him upright.

i think any QB would feel more at ease knowing Thomas is protecting his blindside rather then Hurst lol.

when your QB gets abused from day 1 you have a higher chance he will end up a bust TBH.

also no team is going to trade 2 good o-liners for 1 elite but old LT, but at the same time no team should trade their Elite but old LT when the rest of the o-line is sub par as well and you just lost your stud C to FA.

Browns already lost Mack and mitchell schwartz to FA.
Thats already 2 starters gone.

Trading the 3rd and best 1 for anything beneath his value is just suicide TBH.

We just lost Osemele to and picture us losing Wagner next season , would you then consider trading Yanda if we fail to make the play offs?