Play Ozzie for the day and trade for Joe Thomas

[Halshayeji]

10 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yes, that's the price... for non-division teams. They ain't doing that deal with the Ravens, Bengals, or Steelers.

Good point

[harfordravenfan]

Give them Monroe and pitta 

[Halshayeji]

13 minutes ago, beanfigger said:

Trent Richardson went for a first round pick, and people are saying a late 3rd for Thomas? A 4th and a 6th? A 4th and a bunch of our next players?

 

Is Madden this easy? Maybe I should try and play that game. Fantasy life is fun.

Trent Richardson also got cut. He was signed for close to the minimum. How is this even relevant?

The only fantasy is if the Browns expect to get a first rounder for a 32 year old player with a contract like that. Call me crazy then.

Madden is not that hard actually, maybe you should try it out sometime. Destroying  the steelers is fun even on a video game.

[BmoreBird22]

5 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

Trent Richardson also got cut. He was signed for close to the minimum. How is this even relevant?

The only fantasy is if the Browns expect to get a first rounder for a 32 year old player with a contract like that. Call me crazy then.

Madden is not that hard actually, maybe you should try it out sometime. Destroying  the steelers is fun even on a video game.

He's still the best player at the second most position on the offense and has been for many years

[Halshayeji]

24 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He's still the best player at the second most position on the offense and has been for many years

Oh I absolutely agree. He's a quality player and I would love to have him here. That's just his market value at this point in his career. 

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yes, that's the price... for non-division teams. They ain't doing that deal with the Ravens, Bengals, or Steelers.

Hmmm...perhaps we do the legendary "three-team-trade" in which team X trades for player Y and then we send them compensation Z for Y. Sorry to turn this into a math problem. Lol.

It's unlikely, I agree. But hey, let's dream for a little bit about the idea of Joe Thomas in Baltimore. 

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Hmmm...perhaps we do the legendary "three-team-trade" in which team X trades for player Y and then we send them compensation Z for Y. Sorry to turn this into a math problem. Lol.

It's unlikely, I agree. But hey, let's dream for a little bit about the idea of Joe Thomas in Baltimore. 

This isn't MLB or the NBA. Rarely happens in the NFL.

[BmoreBird22]

19 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

Oh I absolutely agree. He's a quality player and I would love to have him here. That's just his market value at this point in his career. 

Errr, no, it's not. The Broncos were willing to give their first and second rounder for Thomas and a fourth. The Browns sought two firsts or the Broncos first three picks.

[GrimCoconut]

47 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

This isn't MLB or the NBA. Rarely happens in the NFL.

I guess there goes my hopes for us trading for Antonio Brown, too, huh?

[lgcs27288]

Joe for Joe straight up, then get Manning to pull a Favre. Better yet, get Favre to pull a Favre! 

[ALPHA]

Why would a division rival want to make themselves worse and us better?

 

[beanfigger]

4 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

There was also about a decade in age difference AND several million dollars in salary difference there. Not the best comparison.

Are you trying to say Trent Richardson was worth the first rounder and Joe Thomas isn't?

[Daft Classic]

Ozzie:

"Hey Hue, how are you doing man? Listen, I heard you are trying to shop around that Joe Thomas guy. Great move. He's a scrub and you don't need a guy with his attitude on a team with a prestigious history like Cleveland. That's a real veteran move on your part. Tell you what, I'll take him off your hands. What? You aren't just gonna give him up? Oh no no no no Huey you got me all wrong. I was gonna set you up in exchange for us taking him off your hands. We really like you, and we'd only set you up for success with critical pieces. Here's the deal:

You send use John Thomas or whatever

And we give you THREE 1st round Talents

1) A 1st round LT that we snagged from the Jags. I know right? They're so dumb. Dude's an absolute beast when he steps on the field, and he can totes be your anchor to protect the HoF QB you should totally draft at #2

2) A 1st round, All-Team Safety prospect we got from Florida after that SB we won. Dude is all over the place from left side to right (of the bench). I saw you lost Gipson, so why not fill that hole without even skipping a beat?

3) We'll give you our 3rd AND Denver's 4th, Have you checked the value on those picks? That worth a second round pick! You'll have TWO picks in the 2nd round. Did you know if you trade two seconds you can get a first? THINK HOW MANY 1ST ROUND PICKS YOU COULD HAVE

John and Steve don't know about this yet, so you are the first to know. That's how much I like you. If I told them they'd get so mad about all the talent I'd be giving away. Steve would fire me for giving you this good of a deal, but I'm willing to help you out. Get back to me when you've made up your mind, but hurry before anyone finds out."

/Trade Talks

[GrimCoconut]

23 minutes ago, Daft Classic said:

Ozzie:

"Hey Hue, how are you doing man? Listen, I heard you are trying to shop around that Joe Thomas guy. Great move. He's a scrub and you don't need a guy with his attitude on a team with a prestigious history like Cleveland. That's a real veteran move on your part. Tell you what, I'll take him off your hands. What? You aren't just gonna give him up? Oh no no no no Huey you got me all wrong. I was gonna set you up in exchange for us taking him off your hands. We really like you, and we'd only set you up for success with critical pieces. Here's the deal:

You send use John Thomas or whatever

And we give you THREE 1st round Talents

1) A 1st round LT that we snagged from the Jags. I know right? They're so dumb. Dude's an absolute beast when he steps on the field, and he can totes be your anchor to protect the HoF QB you should totally draft at #2

2) A 1st round, All-Team Safety prospect we got from Florida after that SB we won. Dude is all over the place from left side to right (of the bench). I saw you lost Gipson, so why not fill that hole without even skipping a beat?

3) We'll give you our 3rd AND Denver's 4th, Have you checked the value on those picks? That worth a second round pick! You'll have TWO picks in the 2nd round. Did you know if you trade two seconds you can get a first? THINK HOW MANY 1ST ROUND PICKS YOU COULD HAVE

John and Steve don't know about this yet, so you are the first to know. That's how much I like you. If I told them they'd get so mad about all the talent I'd be giving away. Steve would fire me for giving you this good of a deal, but I'm willing to help you out. Get back to me when you've made up your mind, but hurry before anyone finds out."

/Trade Talks

More like...

Ozzie: 

My man Hue. What's up? Yeah, I heard you need WRs. We need an OL. Don't worry--we won't sell you short. Going to send you Eugene Monroe. He fits your system and culture better than ours so he'll replace Thomas for you. We'll also send you a WR. We got a man named Michael Campanaro. A lot of guys on our fan forum think this guy turns out to be a beast. Yeah, he's the guy we traded with Cleveland in 2014 to get, but that was 2014--one of the best WR drafts ever. He can be your Antonio Brown, my man. I also heard you lost Gipson--don't worry. I'll send you Matt Elam, former 1st round pick from Florida. And yes, I'll hook you up with an ILB to replace Dansby in Arthur Brown, a former 2nd round pick widely considered a 1st round talent. We're just so deep at LB we can't fit him in there. I'll even send you Ryan Mallet to your team and I'll send you a 4th round pick from Denver all for just Joe Thomas and your first round pick for that haul of players and our first round pick. 

Hue...? Are you there? Hue? Hue?

Lol

[redrum52]

I mean... this team has passed on Julio, JJ, Tyron Smith, Muhammed Wilkerson and countless others to trade back and draft Phil Taylor.  They also used the 3rd pick on Trent Richardson.  Then also missed out on Sammy Watkins, Khalil Mack, Barr, Beckham and Aaron Donald to select Justin Gilbert.  This move might not be as hard as we think.  The last time Hue was a HC he traded 2 first I think for Carson Palmer.

 

I'd send em a 2nd round pick and a snap chat of our draft board.

 

Realistically, if I was them I wouldn't budge.  Thomas is one of the last remaining signs of proof that they have any semblance of an idea of what to do with a 1st round pick.

[Maryland]

3 hours ago, ALPHA said:

Why would a division rival want to make themselves worse and us better?

If I understand the new Browns analytics-themed FO correctly, they would not care much about helping a division rival for the next few years. They are basically doing what the Jaguars did in 2013: blowing up their roster and starting a multi-year rebuild with a new GM and coaching staff. The Browns know they are going to field a terrible roster for 3+ seasons, tank, amass high draft picks/assets, and build up with a young core and a lot of cap space. They won't care if they help the Ravens short-term because 1) they value draft picks above all else, 2) they won't be competitive anyway, so it doesn't matter if they help the Ravens, and 3) making the Ravens more competitive would actually help them tank better--that's two more L's per season to get a higher pick.

Basically they're going to be the Astros or 76ers of the NFL. Hopefully it all backfires. 

[usmccharles]

I Honestly wouldn't even make the trade.  It would cost us too much to get him and at his age, the injuries might start to stack up and that's not good when paying someone 9mill a year (ish). 

Didn't he have a non-trade clause in his contract

[Halshayeji]

8 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Errr, no, it's not. The Broncos were willing to give their first and second rounder for Thomas and a fourth. The Browns sought two firsts or the Broncos first three picks.

Yeah something like that was reported last year but never confirmed. Let's assume the report was true and the Broncos did indeed offer a "first and a third". For Thomas and a fourth. That's basically a late first and and a swap of mid round picks. 3 and 4

We need to consider a few factors. 1- midseason trades are usually inflated a bit because teams are desperate and have no other options. 2- draft picks value is inflated pre draft. It's just the nature of the NFL. 3-The Broncos then we're desperate for a LT and believed that a LT is all they need to get to the SB. Now the Brown are the ones desperate to gather picks and rebuild. 4- I think it's fair to assume that Joe will be productive for 2 more years. When that trade was being talked about last year, the assumption was that Joe had 3 good years in him. 

The closest trade I can compare this to is Mankins moving from the Patriots to the buccaneers for a 4th round pick and a junk player just a few years ago.

[Halshayeji]

3 hours ago, redrum52 said:

I mean... this team has passed on Julio, JJ, Tyron Smith, Muhammed Wilkerson and countless others to trade back and draft Phil Taylor.  They also used the 3rd pick on Trent Richardson.  Then also missed out on Sammy Watkins, Khalil Mack, Barr, Beckham and Aaron Donald to select Justin Gilbert.  This move might not be as hard as we think.  The last time Hue was a HC he traded 2 first I think for Carson Palmer.

 

I'd send em a 2nd round pick and a snap chat of our draft board.

 

Realistically, if I was them I wouldn't budge.  Thomas is one of the last remaining signs of proof that they have any semblance of an idea of what to do with a 1st round pick.

2nd round and a snap chat! That made my day lol. 

For real tho. GMs would pay a loooot of money for that snap.

[rmcjacket23]

7 hours ago, beanfigger said:

Are you trying to say Trent Richardson was worth the first rounder and Joe Thomas isn't?

No, and yes.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if a team were actually willing to give up a first rounder for Thomas right now, he wouldn't be a Brown anymore.

I'm more or less just shooting down comparing the two, since they are two gigantically different situations.

[BmoreBird22]

4 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

Yeah something like that was reported last year but never confirmed. Let's assume the report was true and the Broncos did indeed offer a "first and a third". For Thomas and a fourth. That's basically a late first and and a swap of mid round picks. 3 and 4

We need to consider a few factors. 1- midseason trades are usually inflated a bit because teams are desperate and have no other options. 2- draft picks value is inflated pre draft. It's just the nature of the NFL. 3-The Broncos then we're desperate for a LT and believed that a LT is all they need to get to the SB. Now the Brown are the ones desperate to gather picks and rebuild. 4- I think it's fair to assume that Joe will be productive for 2 more years. When that trade was being talked about last year, the assumption was that Joe had 3 good years in him. 

The closest trade I can compare this to is Mankins moving from the Patriots to the buccaneers for a 4th round pick and a junk player just a few years ago.

It wasn't a first and third, it was a first and second, but the Browns also wanted a third. There's no way the Browns are going to go from wanting two firsts to taking a fourth and a sixth.

The only midseason trade I can think of in recent memory that was inflated was the Trent Richardson trade, but he was a second year player coming off of a solid rookie season, so slightly understandable. 

And it's not comparable to the Mankins trade because one is a HoF player at one of the most important positions in all of football, period, and one was a good guard who refused to take a pay cut. It was a salary shedding move more than anything. 

The Browns have no reason to shed salary, so they can sit back and wait for people to bid on arguably the best offensive lineman in football, period.

And yeah, that trade value was confirmed. I'm on mobile, but Google Joe Thomas Broncos - Browns and it's the first article 

[jazz1988]

19 hours ago, PolishRifle said:

Eugene Monroe + our 1st round pick. Yeah, I said it. Joe Thomas is better than any prospect we could get this year in the draft.

That's not a good trade at all especially to rival team 

[usmccharles]

19 hours ago, PolishRifle said:

Eugene Monroe + our 1st round pick. Yeah, I said it. Joe Thomas is better than any prospect we could get this year in the draft.

That would be extremely dumb on our part.  Thomas has a couple years of his career left, im sure injuries will start to pile up.  Not to mention we would have to pay him roughly 9mill or so, which is more than what we have in cap space.   Sorry, but ill take the rookie for cheap for the next 4-5 years and potentially another 5 years than a guy who has a couple years left at 9 mill a year. poor logic

[beanfigger]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No, and yes.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if a team were actually willing to give up a first rounder for Thomas right now, he wouldn't be a Brown anymore.

I'm more or less just shooting down comparing the two, since they are two gigantically different situations.

When I mentioned it initially, I was less comparing the players than I was stating what the Browns took in a recent trade. They were able to get a first for a guy most likely cut in the not-so-distant future. I doubt that was the first offer they got for him.

 

I saw you said you would offer a second, and that doesn't seem too unreasonable. I'm just saying the people claiming all they should be looking for is two third-day picks for him, if they were Ozzie, would probably get their pay docked for wasting time while on the clock. The Browns wouldn't even wait for the sentence to end before hanging up the phone.

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, beanfigger said:

When I mentioned it initially, I was less comparing the players than I was stating what the Browns took in a recent trade. They were able to get a first for a guy most likely cut in the not-so-distant future. I doubt that was the first offer they got for him.

 

I saw you said you would offer a second, and that doesn't seem too unreasonable. I'm just saying the people claiming all they should be looking for is two third-day picks for him, if they were Ozzie, would probably get their pay docked for wasting time while on the clock. The Browns wouldn't even wait for the sentence to end before hanging up the phone.

Many factors come into play here.

1. If I were the Ravens, I'd offer a second. Why? Because LT is one of the biggest "needs" on the team, and the price the Ravens would have to pay is obviously going to be steeper than most other teams making offers, given that we play in the same division. For a team like the Ravens to pry away an All-Pro LT from a division rival, it would certainly take a top 40 pick.

However, that price isn't the same for every team. A trade to the NFC would probably cost less. 

2. Teams have to deal with his contract. Its not just a sure thing that another team would be able to restructure his contract. He's got 3 years left at a reasonable rate, and a team would have to take on his cap number as is if that's the case, which isn't terrible, but also isn't easy for a team like the Ravens. Extending a 32 year old player with 3 years left on his deal wouldn't make a ton of sense.

[JoeyFlex5]

56 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

That would be extremely dumb on our part.  Thomas has a couple years of his career left, im sure injuries will start to pile up.  Not to mention we would have to pay him roughly 9mill or so, which is more than what we have in cap space.   Sorry, but ill take the rookie for cheap for the next 4-5 years and potentially another 5 years than a guy who has a couple years left at 9 mill a year. poor logic

Our window is realistically about 6 years, you could be more optimistic and think flacco is playing at a high level for 8 more years but this is being realistic.. 

 

Joe Thomas probably has another strong 3 or 4 years left. Worth every penny for a safe player at a high valued position. He will play his butt off because he wants to win before his career ends. It gives us security and let's us draft freely in the first 2 rounds and we can move on with no concerns about LT. I wouldn't give 6th overall but I'd give a 2017 first in a heartbeat, with Joe thomas, the FA acquisitions and essentially 3 first round rookies with perriman returning and the 35th overall pick, our 2017 first could be quite low because it shouldn't surprise anyone if we make a strong playoff run with that roster. Worth it to strap ourselves because we are dangerously close to win now mode, it would be nice to enter our "win now window" rrady to compete at a high level with key pieces in place, rather than enter this window saying "we desperately need to fill this hole before were ready".

[usmccharles]

50 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Our window is realistically about 6 years, you could be more optimistic and think flacco is playing at a high level for 8 more years but this is being realistic.. 

 

Joe Thomas probably has another strong 3 or 4 years left. Worth every penny for a safe player at a high valued position. He will play his butt off because he wants to win before his career ends. It gives us security and let's us draft freely in the first 2 rounds and we can move on with no concerns about LT. I wouldn't give 6th overall but I'd give a 2017 first in a heartbeat, with Joe thomas, the FA acquisitions and essentially 3 first round rookies with perriman returning and the 35th overall pick, our 2017 first could be quite low because it shouldn't surprise anyone if we make a strong playoff run with that roster. Worth it to strap ourselves because we are dangerously close to win now mode, it would be nice to enter our "win now window" rrady to compete at a high level with key pieces in place, rather than enter this window saying "we desperately need to fill this hole before were ready".

I understand what your saying, but franchises who do that end up costing themselves in the future. 

Say we make the trade, then Thomas retires in 2 years.  If we would have kept our pick that player would still have another 2 years on contract with an option.  Might not happen, but it could.  We dont know what Thomas' future would hold, he has never missed a game which is awesome, if he could promise hes not going to get hurt and play here for the next 6 years, then im game.....but he cant do that.  Lot of "ifs"

Not to mention He cost roughly 9mill a year, we only have 7 mill in cap space.  Cut Monroe, thats what 2 mill, cant remember. 

The point im making is that to avoid the terrible down years or rebuilding phases teams have to keep bringing in young talent, giving up a first rounder, no matter where it is, just takes one more young potential future Raven off the board.  Im not willing to take the chance of not landing a young stud in the first round to get an expensive 32 year old LT for 3 years give or take, but thats just me.  I know what kind of poster you are and agree with you on a lot of things, just not this one. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by usmccharles

[beanfigger]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Many factors come into play here.

1. If I were the Ravens, I'd offer a second. Why? Because LT is one of the biggest "needs" on the team, and the price the Ravens would have to pay is obviously going to be steeper than most other teams making offers, given that we play in the same division. For a team like the Ravens to pry away an All-Pro LT from a division rival, it would certainly take a top 40 pick.

However, that price isn't the same for every team. A trade to the NFC would probably cost less. 

2. Teams have to deal with his contract. Its not just a sure thing that another team would be able to restructure his contract. He's got 3 years left at a reasonable rate, and a team would have to take on his cap number as is if that's the case, which isn't terrible, but also isn't easy for a team like the Ravens. Extending a 32 year old player with 3 years left on his deal wouldn't make a ton of sense.

Sounds like we're on the same page. We're pretending to be Ozzie in this thread, so obviously we're talking about what the Ravens should offer.

 

Also, the Richardson thing isn't so much setting the standard for what we should offer as it does for what they would accept. There is little to no reason for the Browns to just give away their best player. If we are really playing the game of pretending to be a GM who wants to actually make this trade, then we need to consider it from their side. He's not a locker room cancer, and he isn't chewing up so much cap that they can't do anything else to improve. The only reason they'd give him up is if they really feel like the return improves them significantly. Late round picks do not accomplish that, in my opinion.

[beanfigger]

52 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Our window is realistically about 6 years, you could be more optimistic and think flacco is playing at a high level for 8 more years but this is being realistic.. 

 

Joe Thomas probably has another strong 3 or 4 years left. Worth every penny for a safe player at a high valued position. He will play his butt off because he wants to win before his career ends. It gives us security and let's us draft freely in the first 2 rounds and we can move on with no concerns about LT. I wouldn't give 6th overall but I'd give a 2017 first in a heartbeat, with Joe thomas, the FA acquisitions and essentially 3 first round rookies with perriman returning and the 35th overall pick, our 2017 first could be quite low because it shouldn't surprise anyone if we make a strong playoff run with that roster. Worth it to strap ourselves because we are dangerously close to win now mode, it would be nice to enter our "win now window" rrady to compete at a high level with key pieces in place, rather than enter this window saying "we desperately need to fill this hole before were ready".

This is my thinking on the matter, as well.

[Halshayeji]

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It wasn't a first and third, it was a first and second, but the Browns also wanted a third. There's no way the Browns are going to go from wanting two firsts to taking a fourth and a sixth.

The only midseason trade I can think of in recent memory that was inflated was the Trent Richardson trade, but he was a second year player coming off of a solid rookie season, so slightly understandable. 

And it's not comparable to the Mankins trade because one is a HoF player at one of the most important positions in all of football, period, and one was a good guard who refused to take a pay cut. It was a salary shedding move more than anything. 

The Browns have no reason to shed salary, so they can sit back and wait for people to bid on arguably the best offensive lineman in football, period.

And yeah, that trade value was confirmed. I'm on mobile, but Google Joe Thomas Broncos - Browns and it's the first article 

Im not trying to argue wether it was a first and a third for mankins and a fourth or a first and second. I'm just saying that they were reports and not confirmed. Confirmed would be us seing a trade materialize or an executive from one of the teams confirming how far apart the two teams were. The Broncos may have been willing to overpay then because of the factors at that time but won't now. Even then they weren't willing to trade more than a late first and second that's if the reports were accurate and not just information released by the Browns to increase joes trade value. Just to be clear, our 6th overall 2016 pick is worth the Broncos 1st round pick in 2016,17,and 18. That's not my estimation it's a fact based on the draft value chart.

Leme ask you this. If the Broncos really offered a first and a second and the Browns were ok if they added a third. Wouldn't they have found a common ground? It's like me willing to pay 1000 dollars for a watch but refuse to pay 8 percent tax. 

Midseason trades are always inflated. Richardson specifically exploded but that's not a great example. Look at all the midseason trades and compare them to offseason acuisitions. The Ravens traded for givens with one year left on his contract for a 6th. That same offseason guys like D Jackson and B Marshall were traded for similar value. It's just the nature of the NFL when you seek a midseason trade. I can go on and on with examples.

 

i agree comparing Richardson to Thomas is like comparing apples to oranges. I used mankins because he was about the same age when traded, Thomas made 9 pro bowls and mankins made 7, both were first round picks. Mankins inherited salary was 6 mil 7 mil and 7 mil. Thomas inherited salary would be around 8 mil 8.5 and 8.5.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that the Browns asked for way too much then and now Thomas is a year older and a year closer to Father Time knocking. His trade value has already dropped and will continue to drop mostly because of his age. His value on the field has not dropped much obviously but the idea of giving up a first round pick becomes harder and harder for any GM in the league. The Browns better get what they can now or risk loosing him for close to nothing one year from today.

 

If the Ravens decide to slightly overpay to get Thomas then I'm all in because he would help this team greatly in 2016. If the Browns ask for our 6th overall pick then they'd be in lala land. The Ravens have other options. No one is that desperate.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Halshayeji