Will Hill released

[GrimCoconut]

Just now, Ravens4Real said:

Just don't like the move at all. Now our secondary is a complete question mark again. 

Webb has almost no experience as a safety. Wright is a question mark also. So 50% is a ?? Add to that Jimmy could get knocked out by a gust of strong wind.

Will would have at the least made for great depth. Don't understand keeping Lewis and some of the others when Hill is certainly better than them.

I actually like Brooks as a SS. Been saying it for a while. I don't like Lewis at all but he can tackle in the box in a traditional SS role. That said, I wish he was gone. Elam may do something with Weddle out there. Weddle may even play SS and Webb could do the same as well. I don't think our secondary is garbage now because we cut Hill. 

[hn68wb4]

I guess the idea is that, yeah the cap savings aren't much but the dead cap is small as well whereas with Webb (who I said was not going to go because the dead cap that came with the savings was too much) we'd be looking at over $6M in dead cap. Makes some sense I guess but I still don't like it.

[ravens rule]

1 minute ago, Ravens4Real said:

Just don't like the move at all. Now our secondary is a complete question mark again. 

Webb has almost no experience as a safety. Wright is a question mark also. So 50% is a ?? Add to that Jimmy could get knocked out by a gust of strong wind.

Will would have at the least made for great depth. Don't understand keeping Lewis and some of the others when Hill is certainly better than them.

If bosa is gone they have to go corner after what happened last year. No dang lineman or that Jack kid.

[ravefan52]

Webb better play dramatically better next season or he and Ozzie are going to get a lot of hate.

[ALPHA]

7 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

None specifically, he's supposed to stick to his assigned zone, which he often failed to do. 

He tried to play like polamalu with the IQ of an average safety.

He was one of the few bright spots last season, our best DB by far.

[pep_meister]

1 minute ago, ravefan52 said:

Ah yes, nice job front office. Because a 30-year old player who's made of glass, never played the position for more than a few games and wasn't even good to begin with is such a great long-term solution to go all in on. And let's cut the young, cheap, durable and extremely talented guy.

 

I get Hill wasn't great at the end of the season and he's not Harb's ideal locker room guy, but all Hill has done since coming here is turn his life around staying clean and consistently produce for this team.

exactly. they want a youth movement but now we are stuck with two safetys 30+ years old in a secondary entirely made of glass... Was it not just two years ago that our secondary was scraping people off practice squads to compete? Had we had depth no doubt in my mind we would have been in the superbowl that year.

[DrPuff]

I dont see the argument as to why Webb cant be a better player than Hill. Hes been in this defense for his entire career and they sit in the same DB meetings/coached together, so he knows everything. He can even cover the slot better than Hill ever could, if he needs to. Honestly Webb is the smallest guy in our secondary and somehow the best tackler. He will be great next to Weddle.

[GrimCoconut]

Just now, ALPHA said:

He was one of the few bright spots last season, our best DB by far.

Maybe the first part of the year. Jimmy Smith started really coming back into form at the end of the year and I'd say he was our best DB last year. You could tell the injury affected him early and only started to subside late in the year. He even said as much recently in an interview.

[Purple_City39]

2 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

Just don't like the move at all. Now our secondary is a complete question mark again. 

Webb has almost no experience as a safety. Wright is a question mark also. So 50% is a ?? Add to that Jimmy could get knocked out by a gust of strong wind.

Will would have at the least made for great depth. Don't understand keeping Lewis and some of the others when Hill is certainly better than them.

 

1 minute ago, ravefan52 said:

Ah yes, nice job front office. Because a 30-year old player who's made of glass, never played the position for more than a few games and wasn't even good to begin with is such a great long-term solution to go all in on. And let's cut the young, cheap, durable and extremely talented guy.

 

I get Hill wasn't great at the end of the season and he's not Harb's ideal locker room guy, but all Hill has done since coming here is turn his life around staying clean and consistently produce for this team.

 

2 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

Just don't like the move at all. Now our secondary is a complete question mark again. 

Webb has almost no experience as a safety. Wright is a question mark also. So 50% is a ?? Add to that Jimmy could get knocked out by a gust of strong wind.

Will would have at the least made for great depth. Don't understand keeping Lewis and some of the others when Hill is certainly better than them.

I may be incorrect but wasn't Webb's whole career prior to the NFL played at safety?  Considering how well he played it for a few games, I'm willing to bet he still has a knack for it.  In fact, considering safeties play a lot of zone and even with CBs, the Ravens have played a lot of zone lately, I don't really think the position will be all that challenging for him.  as we saw for 9 weeks

[pep_meister]

1 minute ago, DrPuff said:

I dont see the argument as to why Webb cant be a better player than Hill. Hes been in this defense for his entire career and they sit in the same DB meetings/coached together, so he knows everything. He can even cover the slot better than Hill ever could, if he needs to. Honestly Webb is the smallest guy in our secondary and somehow the best tackler. He will be great next to Weddle.

because webb is a game on levis stadium turf from being on his 3rd ACL

[The Raven]

Just now, pep_meister said:

because webb is a game on levis stadium turf from being on his 3rd ACL

So if Webb got hurt, Hill would step in to fill his spot?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

7 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

It was before that as well. I recall it being like a week or two ago. It wasn't extremely recent. Maybe my memory is off, though. Could be.

might have been when weddle was first rumored to be interested in baltimore... bc i remember reading what you're talking about, i just cant place it.

[ALPHA]

5 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Have you ever heard of a weird thing called zone coverage? Or giving help to a CB? Go google that real quick and get back to me champ.

Easy cowboy, it was a rhetorical question so no need to feel defensive. He was the best player in our secondary and now it's implied that he's the scapegoat for all our coverage issues.

[arnie_uk]

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

So if Webb got hurt, Hill would step in to fill his spot?

He'd do a better job of filling in that Lewis would anyway. Webb is likely to get injured at some point and hill is clearly the best option out of Lewis brooks and Elam to replace him. At some point quality depth has to be more important than cap space.

 

of course this is all moot if they use the cap space well, or a suspension is incoming.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

I guess the idea is that, yeah the cap savings aren't much but the dead cap is small as well whereas with Webb (who I said was not going to go because the dead cap that came with the savings was too much) we'd be looking at over $6M in dead cap. Makes some sense I guess but I still don't like it.

Dead money has nothing to do with it. You pay it regardless; with Webb we wouldve saved $3.5m and with Hill its $3m. I doubt they said "I'd love to save that extra half a million and cut Webb, but then everyone will see that 'dead money' that we can just call his 'cap hit' right now...."

Straight up, they wanted Webb over Hill. Nothing else to it.

[pep_meister]

2 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

He'd do a better job of filling in that Lewis would anyway. Webb is likely to get injured at some point and hill is clearly the best option out of Lewis brooks and Elam to replace him. At some point quality depth has to be more important than cap space.

 

of course this is all moot if they use the cap space well, or a suspension is incoming.

that or Smith goes down. what now? arrington goes back outside, and we count on wright to be our number 1 and safety/entire secondary is a mess all over again? for the sake of depth Hill was usda prime choice depth

Edited March 16, 2016 by pep_meister

[DrPuff]

Well regardless of what you all want to argue. It was apparent that Harbaugh had Hill behind Webb and Lewis in terms of the depth chart since mid last year. I trust his judgment over anyone in this thread. Saying that, Maybe hes clearing cap space for Oline/Oline depth. Could benefit the team more than a safety 4th on the depth chart.

Edited March 16, 2016 by DrPuff
Spelling

[ALPHA]

I hope Webb can still ballhawk because he's going to miss a lot of tackles.

[DrPuff]

Just now, ALPHA said:

I hope Webb can still ballhawk because he's going to miss a lot of tackles.

Webb is the best tackler in our entire secondary. Which isnt saying much but at least hes aggressive and wraps guys up. Unlike Matt Elam.

[hn68wb4]

6 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Dead money has nothing to do with it. You pay it regardless; with Webb we wouldve saved $3.5m and with Hill its $3m. I doubt they said "I'd love to save that extra half a million and cut Webb, but then everyone will see that 'dead money' that we can just call his 'cap hit' right now...."

Straight up, they wanted Webb over Hill. Nothing else to it.

Dead cap definitely has some to do with it because what you do with the savings should be worth the overall sacrifice. With Webb you are getting a good slot CB with instincts and obvious coverage skills, there is no one on the market left that brings what he brings as a safety an CB depth, so whoever we would sign with that savings would, in essense, over their first year be worth their contract + the $6.5 dead cap from cutting him. Dead cap definitely has a role in who stays and who goes, I never said that was the ONLY reason but it was surely a factor.

Edited March 16, 2016 by hn68wb4

[JoeyFlex5]

I think we really should have put will hill on the table for Tennessee for the first overall pick. They're desperate for secondary help and in their position they don't want to take Ramsey. They want a DB and a. Safety specifically and they have fielded trades because they aren't sold on either tunsil or Ramsey first overall, we could have offered hill and a future first and Maybe our 3rd to move up and get tunsil of ramsey. 

[pep_meister]

7 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I think we really should have put will hill on the table for Tennessee for the first overall pick. They're desperate for secondary help and in their position they don't want to take Ramsey. They want a DB and a. Safety specifically and they have fielded trades because they aren't sold on either tunsil or Ramsey first overall, we could have offered hill and a future first and Maybe our 3rd to move up and get tunsil of ramsey. 

 something you say making sense because outright cutting hill doesn't make any... can we agree on that

 

EDIT: nvm. didn't see u give a future 1st.

Edited March 16, 2016 by pep_meister

[RavensFan34950]

Ok as big of a Webb fan I am, this if unbelievably stupid to keep him over Hill. Heck it it even more stupid to keep Lewis over Hill. I mean I'm at a loss for words here. We didn't even try and trade him? We get nothing in return? Has Ozzie lost his freaking mind? You can't rely on Webb to be available for 16 games man. I'm a big fan of his but I'm not a blind fan. Ozzie has some explaining to do with this one. This off-season went from an A+ to a C. Freaking unbelievable man.

[DrPuff]

Just now, JoeyFlex5 said:

I think we really should have put will hill on the table for Tennessee for the first overall pick. They're desperate for secondary help and in their position they don't want to take Ramsey. They want a DB and a. Safety specifically and they have fielded trades because they aren't sold on either tunsil or Ramsey first overall, we could have offered hill and a future first and Maybe our 3rd to move up and get tunsil of ramsey. 

In no way would a team give up a #1 pick for a #6 for an average safety. We would have to give up multiple 1st rounders and a second. No one at 1 is worth that kind of ammunition in this draft. Just look at the Redskins a few years back. Or the saints with Ricky Williams.

[CalvinSmoke]

What a joke... When Webb gets hurt I'm week 3 I don't wanna hear it Ozzie... 

 

[RavensFan34950]

8 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

I hope Webb can still ballhawk because he's going to miss a lot of tackles.

Webb was one on the best tacklers on the team actually. But I still don't agree with this move at all.

[pep_meister]

1 minute ago, hn68wb4 said:

He's being sarcastic

6th pick, a 3rd rd pick and hill wouldn't have interested TN? because TN needs all the help they can get.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I think we really should have put will hill on the table for Tennessee for the first overall pick. They're desperate for secondary help and in their position they don't want to take Ramsey. They want a DB and a. Safety specifically and they have fielded trades because they aren't sold on either tunsil or Ramsey first overall, we could have offered hill and a future first and Maybe our 3rd to move up and get tunsil of ramsey. 

I don't see a player in this entire draft worth giving up a future 1st rounder for, so I would definitely hate this idea.

Plus, I'd say we are significantly overvaluing a Ravens player (as we normally do) in terms of his value to the rest of the league. He's a good player, but he's not some blue chip player that every team is going to want to get their hands on. Frankly, Tennessee would probably rather have a 2nd rounder than take Hill on, because they can pick the player they want AND pay chump change for him.

Plus, Hill is a FA after this season, so he might have only been a rental for a team that doesn't figure to compete this year.

I don't think that trades makes much sense for either team.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

6 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

Dead cap definitely has some to do with it because what you do with the savings should be worth the overall sacrifice. With Webb you are getting a good slot CB with instincts and obvious coverage skills, there is no one on the market left that brings what he brings as a safety an CB depth, so whoever we would sign with that savings would, in essense, over their first year be worth their contract + the $6.5 dead cap from cutting him. Dead cap definitely has a role in who stays and who goes, I never said that was the ONLY reason but it was surely a factor.

Sure, dead money is taken into account when deciding to cut any one player. I'm saying dead money had absolutely nothing to do with the decision between Hill and Webb. The dead money left over after cutting Webb + Hill's salary is pretty much the same as just Webb's salary. So if it was about cap savings they would have cut Webb. 

It's about the players, period. Dead money had no effect on deciding to cut Hill over Webb.

[ALPHA]

1 minute ago, RavensFan34950 said:

Webb was one on the best tacklers on the team actually. But I still don't agree with this move at all.

It's a different position, he's going to get beat up by tight ends and running backs