Will Hill released

[rmcjacket23]

11 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

You really should stick to one story.  In one of your comments before KO left, you said the FO should offer KO $8.5M p/ year and that would be enough to keep him. Now you're saying they should have put the Franchise Tag on him which would have been around $12M a year.  Pick a side and stick to it.  

Franchise tag for KO actually would have been $13.7M... same amount for all offensive lineman regardless of position.

So he's gone from $8.5M a year being sufficient to retain him two months ago to now upping his offer by over $5M a year (an almost 60% increase) AND paying $2M a year more than what a team just paid him in the open market.

AND... then he complains about poor cap management.

#hypocrisy #irony

[rmcjacket23]

On 3/17/2016 at 7:08 AM, arnie_uk said:

You save the salary when they are suspended so that shouldn't be a factor.

They done this last year as well with cutting babin after an offsides but then didn't cut doom after a similar error against Jax or Lewis for dropping the interception. 

They simply don't hold everyone to the same standards, which some people will find understandable because every player is in a different scenario.

Babin was just signed, doom is a top player. Hill has made the same mistake 4 times, boyle twice.

Personally if its me, if I cut one of failing tests or giving away dumb penalties I'd cut them all because it's hypocritical, but the FO don't see it like that.

I would have cut both boyle and hill, and I wouldn't have cut babin or doom

Well, it is in some ways hypocritical, but its also a horrendous way to run a business  by holding everybody to the exact same standard. 

Its pretty much impossible to hold everybody to the same standards when the value and production of two people aren't the same. Some players simply mean more to an organization than others, and in some cases, a TON more. 

Those players are given more lenience, partially because they've earned it, and partially because this is a business and not a reflection of morality and fairness.

The entire sport and its structure is based on the idea that not everybody is equal.

Edited March 18, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[443hurricane]

On 3/16/2016 at 3:02 PM, pep_meister said:

Exactly why I question our staff and Ozzie and Co. no longer get a pass from me.

His track record is 50/50 at best. I am starting to believe it maybe time to bring in a new guard.

[rmw10]

15 minutes ago, 443hurricane said:

Exactly why I question our staff and Ozzie and Co. no longer get a pass from me.

His track record is 50/50 at best. I am starting to believe it maybe time to bring in a new guard.

Did you miss the part where Hill has been suspended 10 games, the 4th suspension of his career?

[January J]

1 hour ago, 443hurricane said:

Exactcan'ttwhy Itheestiis our staff and Ozzie o rr and  Co. a boutnger get a pass from me.

His track  record is 50/50 at best. I am starting to believe it maybe time to bring in a new guard.

So pay Hill while he sits Out for ten games for his fourth offense or pay a guy who (according to your post) is About 2 spots below him and has way More experience and discipline? And from What i Understand hill was the 70th ratedsafety in The second half of the season. I liked hill too but this Is obviously an upgrade and if youcant See that then i Question you.

[Winchester]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Franchise tag for KO actually would have been $13.7M... same amount for all offensive lineman regardless of position.

So he's gone from $8.5M a year being sufficient to retain him two months ago to now upping his offer by over $5M a year (an almost 60% increase) AND paying $2M a year more than what a team just paid him in the open market.

AND... then he complains about poor cap management.

#hypocrisy #irony

When you wait to sign a player his price escalates the closer he is to the auction. Holds true for anything not just football. If ravens franchised him a deal could of been worked out a deal for somewhere between the $8-9 and what the raiders gave him. No agent likes the franchise tag on an elite player. If he gets hurt he gets nothing. Ravens could of signed him for about $10-10.5per after franchising him. But it is cool Ozzie as always has some washed up players in mind to spend the money on. Unless the ravens nail this draft and I mean nail it!!I do not mean solid players I'm talking legit impact players. The ravens season will be a flop. 

[Purple_City39]

9 minutes ago, Winchester said:

When you wait to sign a player his price escalates the closer he is to the auction. Holds true for anything not just football. If ravens franchised him a deal could of been worked out a deal for somewhere between the $8-9 and what the raiders gave him. No agent likes the franchise tag on an elite player. If he gets hurt he gets nothing. Ravens could of signed him for about $10-10.5per after franchising him. But it is cool Ozzie as always has some washed up players in mind to spend the money on. Unless the ravens nail this draft and I mean nail it!!I do not mean solid players I'm talking legit impact players. The ravens season will be a flop. 

I'm curious.  Let's assume the Ravens paid the 10M per season and kept KO.  And let's just assume they still managed to get Wallace and Weddle, would the season still be a flop in your eyes or would it be destined to be good?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 minutes ago, Winchester said:

When you wait to sign a player his price escalates the closer he is to the auction. Holds true for anything not just football. If ravens franchised him a deal could of been worked out a deal for somewhere between the $8-9 and what the raiders gave him. No agent likes the franchise tag on an elite player. If he gets hurt he gets nothing. Ravens could of signed him for about $10-10.5per after franchising him. But it is cool Ozzie as always has some washed up players in mind to spend the money on. Unless the ravens nail this draft and I mean nail it!!I do not mean solid players I'm talking legit impact players. The ravens season will be a flop. 

Or KO could have held out through training camp and then we're stuck paying a premium for a player that we're not getting value from. His agent would have been talking to other teams and finding out what they'd be willing to offer; so no we likely wouldnt have gotten any discount.

And tying up all that cap space while we negotiate would have meant no Watson, Weddle, Wallace, Aiken, or Wright. And when all was said an done, KO probably would have just played this year on the Tag and gotten his contract next year. So, we would have our cap handcuffed so we couldnt improve the team this year, and would have just lost him next year anyways.

And we werent going to pay him more than the $8.5m we thought he was worth. He will be playing guard for Oakland and making more than $3m/yr more than the next highest paid guard and hes not yet an elite player... granted i think he's headed there but we couldnt afford to pay him what he wanted. He wouldnt have accepted an $8.5m offer earlier - he wanted to hit FA to see his value. And clearly it was the right choice on his part, and the ravens made the right choice as well.

I'd take Weddle, Watson, Wallace, Aiken and Wright over just KO every single day. And, in essence thats what we were able to do by not franchising him or offering him stupid money.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

Did you miss the part where Hill has been suspended 10 games, the 4th suspension of his career?

Or maybe he missed the part where he is rumored to have been smoking midway through the season, began to play horribly, and got himself benched and our secondary greatly improved.. 

 

Let's not forget that pff can't rate safeties for the life of them, blown assignments due to freelancing don't count against their ratings which was a huge issue of hills, they also don't account for bad communication which also was a problem of his

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, 443hurricane said:

Exactly why I question our staff and Ozzie and Co. no longer get a pass from me.

His track record is 50/50 at best. I am starting to believe it maybe time to bring in a new guard.

Did you miss the fact that Hills being suspended 10 games? Or that PFF had Hill rated as their number 70 safety over the final 8 games?

Man, what were they thinking cutting a guy that may never play in the NFL again

[DomMcRaven]

4 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Did you miss the part where Hill has been suspended 10 games, the 4th suspension of his career?

 

3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Did you miss the fact that Hills being suspended 10 games? Or that PFF had Hill rated as their number 70 safety over the final 8 games?

Man, what were they thinking cutting a guy that may never play in the NFL again

ALMOST a jinx, gentlemen. Almost. 

[Winchester]

4 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Or KO could have held out through training camp and then we're stuck paying a premium for a player that we're not getting value from. His agent would have been talking to other teams and finding out what they'd be willing to offer; so no we likely wouldnt have gotten any discount.

And tying up all that cap space while we negotiate would have meant no Watson, Weddle, Wallace, Aiken, or Wright. And when all was said an done, KO probably would have just played this year on the Tag and gotten his contract next year. So, we would have our cap handcuffed so we couldnt improve the team this year, and would have just lost him next year anyways.

And we werent going to pay him more than the $8.5m we thought he was worth. He will be playing guard for Oakland and making more than $3m/yr more than the next highest paid guard and hes not yet an elite player... granted i think he's headed there but we couldnt afford to pay him what he wanted. He wouldnt have accepted an $8.5m offer earlier - he wanted to hit FA to see his value. And clearly it was the right choice on his part, and the ravens made the right choice as well.

I'd take Weddle, Watson, Wallace, Aiken and Wright over just KO every single day. And, in essence thats what we were able to do by not franchising him or offering him stupid money.

So you think a player will play under the franchise designation for a complete year, just to get an extra mil a yr?? Seriously?? Or hold out and get nothing??  KO money was stupid but signing a TE about to turn 36 for $4mil a year is smart?? Paying nearly $7mil a year for washed up Weddle was smart?? Or a 30 yr old one trick pony long ball threat all was smart?? Every player you just named is replaceable. A player that makes Vince wilfork leave a game twice for needing a break from getting mauled is not to likely to be replaced. Let's talk about that Midway through the season. If the ravens really wanted anynof those players then Monroe, Forsett,Elam,Lewis and Arrington could of been cut. We will revisit this thread 8-9 games into the season.  And see if the ravens made the right choice. He wanted to hit the market when an extension request was declined by the ravens.

[gtalk12]

16 minutes ago, Winchester said:

So you think a player will play under the franchise designation for a complete year, just to get an extra mil a yr?? Seriously?? Or hold out and get nothing??  KO money was stupid but signing a TE about to turn 36 for $4mil a year is smart?? Paying nearly $7mil a year for washed up Weddle was smart?? Or a 30 yr old one trick pony long ball threat all was smart?? Every player you just named is replaceable. A player that makes Vince wilfork leave a game twice for needing a break from getting mauled is not to likely to be replaced. Let's talk about that Midway through the season. If the ravens really wanted anynof those players then Monroe, Forsett,Elam,Lewis and Arrington could of been cut. We will revisit this thread 8-9 games into the season.  And see if the ravens made the right choice. He wanted to hit the market when an extension request was declined by the ravens.

 

completely inaccurate

[mg90]

Can't say I've ever replied to whoever this is, just sayin.

I think Hill and Weddle would have been awesome but given the circumstances I understand his release.  He has had a few chances at redemption already.  Hopefully he finally learns.

Edited March 18, 2016 by DraiNBamagE

[ravensdan]

3 hours ago, Winchester said:

So you think a player will play under the franchise designation for a complete year, just to get an extra mil a yr?? Seriously?? Or hold out and get nothing??  KO money was stupid but signing a TE about to turn 36 for $4mil a year is smart?? Paying nearly $7mil a year for washed up Weddle was smart?? Or a 30 yr old one trick pony long ball threat all was smart?? Every player you just named is replaceable. A player that makes Vince wilfork leave a game twice for needing a break from getting mauled is not to likely to be replaced. Let's talk about that Midway through the season. If the ravens really wanted anynof those players then Monroe, Forsett,Elam,Lewis and Arrington could of been cut. We will revisit this thread 8-9 games into the season.  And see if the ravens made the right choice. He wanted to hit the market when an extension request was declined by the ravens.

I have to agree somewhat. We should have franchised KO. However I think this is a bit of hindsight. I think we were prepared to go higher than 8 mil but I don't think anyone would have thought the raiders would blow away the market for the guard position. I think it is also clear now though neither the Ravens nor Raiders see KO as a LT. However the Raiders were in the position to overspend for the guy they wanted. Jags could have also done it. I'm pretty disappointed we weren't able to retain our own best young free agents two years in a row now. I don't like this trend. 

[GrimCoconut]

26 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

I have to agree somewhat. We should have franchised KO. However I think this is a bit of hindsight. I think we were prepared to go higher than 8 mil but I don't think anyone would have thought the raiders would blow away the market for the guard position. I think it is also clear now though neither the Ravens nor Raiders see KO as a LT. However the Raiders were in the position to overspend for the guy they wanted. Jags could have also done it. I'm pretty disappointed we weren't able to retain our own best young free agents two years in a row now. I don't like this trend. 

I think it's due to the cap being tied into players not contributing. Once those bad deals come off, we should be better. 

[ravensdan]

2 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think it's due to the cap being tied into players not contributing. Once those bad deals come off, we should be better. 

I get that. It's just a waste when you make great later round draft picks develop great players but don't get them signed. It's ok to let a guy like ngata or Torrey but I didn't like losing McPhee last year and KO this year. 

[GrimCoconut]

27 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

I get that. It's just a waste when you make great later round draft picks develop great players but don't get them signed. It's ok to let a guy like ngata or Torrey but I didn't like losing McPhee last year and KO this year. 

I agree on both accounts. Losing McPhee and KO hurt. We lost McPhee because of Dumervil, though. If we never signed Dumervil then McPhee would likely have been retained. 

[BmoreCOfan52]

Very hard to believe someone would throw away millions for what appears to be smoking the reefer again. He was on his way to being one of the best in the league... Cherish the opportunities you have while you are young and save the partying for retirement if you still wish to partake.

[Winchester]

Unfortunately Hill was doing more than weed from what I hear which attributed to his decline weeks 10-17.

[JoeyFlex5]

49 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Unfortunately Hill was doing more than weed from what I hear which attributed to his decline weeks 10-17.

Makes sense. I wonder if he was smoking weed earlier in the year and that was attributing to the mental lapses and blown calls, and then he started doing other stuff later and he just became horrible

[Virginia 55]

On 3/16/2016 at 3:54 PM, ravefan52 said:

Webb better play dramatically better next season or he and Ozzie are going to get a lot of hate.

Are you sure?

[Virginia 55]

On 3/17/2016 at 10:19 PM, Edgar said:

I wonder about the system we have in place for developing our DB's, particularly our safeties.

Elam was asked to ply free safety.....Brooks can't get on the field..Kendrick Lewis played better everywhere than he managed here.

Will Hill appeared lost fir the second half of last year.

one name --------Teryl Austin 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Virginia 55

[ravensdan]

11 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I agree on both accounts. Losing McPhee and KO hurt. We lost McPhee because of Dumervil, though. If we never signed Dumervil then McPhee would likely have been retained. 

I would have prioritized keeping that trio together. It's too crucial to have depth there. Draft Ladarius ok. If have to look at their contracts. But at some point you let doom or even Suggs go. If McPhee is there when Suggs goes down. Could have changed the whole outlook. 

[DWDuer]

Sorry to see Will Hill go but, he has issues. I agree he was the better safety than Elam or Lewis. It was apparent toward the end of last season that Will was not himself. I hope he straightens his substance abuse issues out for his sake and the sake of his family. 

[jazz1988]

23 hours ago, Winchester said:

When you wait to sign a player his price escalates the closer he is to the auction. Holds true for anything not just football. If ravens franchised him a deal could of been worked out a deal for somewhere between the $8-9 and what the raiders gave him. No agent likes the franchise tag on an elite player. If he gets hurt he gets nothing. Ravens could of signed him for about $10-10.5per after franchising him. But it is cool Ozzie as always has some washed up players in mind to spend the money on. Unless the ravens nail this draft and I mean nail it!!I do not mean solid players I'm talking legit impact players. The ravens season will be a flop. 

If The Ravens had franchised K.O then most likely they wouldn't been able to sign Weddle whoms one of the best free safety in the league. Franchising K.O would also mean no Wallace or Watson and both players gives The Ravens receiving core a boost. When was the last time a team franchised a player and a deal/extension was worked out sooner rather than later? I can't even think of one in  Ravens history and usually contract negotiations can last all throughout  training camp or more.

So overall The Ravens would have  been stuck with  a guard or tackle on  a transition tag of 12 million  with no ability to sign any of the guys they did recently to go along with losing Will Hill due to his inability to stay away from substance abuse. No leverage to ask Ladarius Webb to take a pay cut because he would be only best option at safety for the  team especially since  Will Hill messed up yet again.

 

[OldToby]

Franchise tag on KO would have been foolish, who's to say we would have got a deal done if he was franchised tagged. I think tagging tucker with the franchise tag was smart and stopped any thoughts of tucker getting a outrageous payday. I also feel like everyone has forgotten how unreliable KO has been in the past. I wont be surprised if he misses a couple games if not a majority of the season next year.

[Halshayeji]

On March 18, 2016 at 7:48 PM, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Did you miss the fact that Hills being suspended 10 games? Or that PFF had Hill rated as their number 70 safety over the final 8 games?

Man, what were they thinking cutting a guy that may never play in the NFL again

First off all, thanks for nothing will hill!. Second of all, just straight up cutting will hill was tough pill to swallow but a necessary one.  We brought him in on a no tolerance policy and he screwed up again! Paying a guy 5 mil a year means that you are supposed to be a leader as well as a good player. So please everyone don't compare hill to Boyle even tho his stupidity pisses me off too. Boyle was never required to set an example to our youngsters. Finally, fair is fair. Hill was by far the best safety on our squad and PFF numbers don't say the true story about how he was used in the final few games. In the second half we used all our safeties to see what they got. hill lost playing time not because he was outplayed but because we decided to give others a chance to develop. Thus, hill graded lower. It's not fair to then go around and say hey you sucked anyways.

[rmw10]

11 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

First off all, thanks for nothing will hill!. Second of all, just straight up cutting will hill was tough pill to swallow but a necessary one.  We brought him in on a no tolerance policy and he screwed up again! Paying a guy 5 mil a year means that you are supposed to be a leader as well as a good player. So please everyone don't compare hill to Boyle even tho his stupidity pisses me off too. Boyle was never required to set an example to our youngsters. Finally, fair is fair. Hill was by far the best safety on our squad and PFF numbers don't say the true story about how he was used in the final few games. In the second half we used all our safeties to see what they got. hill lost playing time not because he was outplayed but because we decided to give others a chance to develop. Thus, hill graded lower. It's not fair to then go around and say hey you sucked anyways.

Not exactly true.  There have been reports that the team was not satisfied with his play in the second half of the season, which is conveniently when he is rumored to have started reverting back to his old habits.  His play certainly fell off, and it's said to be in conjunction with his drug issues.

[Halshayeji]

13 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Not exactly true.  There have been reports that the team was not satisfied with his play in the second half of the season, which is conveniently when he is rumored to have started reverting back to his old habits.  His play certainly fell off, and it's said to be in conjunction with his drug issues.

Man that pisses me off even more lol

This just makes the weddle signing look better.