Grim's Ravens Mock: 2.0

[cushrinada1986]

22 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

The idea of Perrimen, Wallace, and Listenbee, with Waller, Watson, and Williams streaking up the middle sounds like a heck of an offense to me.

 

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, Dewy101 said:

He's a reach in the second where there will be better prospects available. He struggled off man against Ohio state in 2014 and 2015. He just gives up too much ground to receivers. I'd love to see where he's good in off man coverage because I can show you a dozen plays where he just doesn't have the play recognition to play off man. Where are his ball skills? He never looks for the ball when getting beat deep or on double moves. He just decides to run into the receiver and gets called for PIs

He did not have a bad game in 2014 against Ohio State, and that Ohio State team was absolutely stacked with guys like Devin Smith and Michael Thomas, with Elliott killing it and a good OL. He displays good technique and had great footwork for a CB, has nice, loose hips to turn. Show me your plays if you can. His ball skills? His interceptions speak to his ball skills. His issues came down field, and that's a legitimate question, but it's not like there's a lot at safety back there in the VT secondary. Furthermore, I recall other CBs getting beat on double moves and turning out to be fine NFL players. His PIs will need work because he can't get away with some of the stuff he does, but he is a good ball player. You're underrating him, in my eyes. 

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, ellicottraven said:

What exactly do you think Frazier likes out of his DBs? Please expound. 

I think this will save me some time: 

http://www.bucsnation.com/2014/7/9/5873829/breaking-down-the-leslie-frazier-defense-a-safer-approach-cover-two

[RavensDieHard21]

15 hours ago, ravefan52 said:

First three rounds would be a pretty great draft. I want Bosa so bad

Me too! I don't understand those Anti-Bosa Ravens fans lol If PFF has him graded out as the best DE two years straight then I trust that on top of what i have already seen. The guy has the size and strength, a revved up motor that never stops, above average speed for a 270 LB Lineman/future OLB, high football IQ, and is extremely good at disengaging blockers with his hands. Best Case Scenario - He transforms into a OLB that is a top run defender who gets to the QB for over 10 sacks each year and is a defensive captain.Worst Case Scenario- He is not a great OLB and bulks up to 280-295 and becomes a very solid DE and shuts down the run and accrues 3-6 sacks from the interior and often gets pressure.

[Cville-Raven]

lol someone is really questioning Fuller's ball skills. The guy is a ball hawk. Btw I really like this mock Grim.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Cville-Raven

[JoeyFlex5]

23 minutes ago, Cville-Raven said:

lol someone is really questioning Fuller's ball skills. The guy is a ball hawk. Btw I really like this mock Grim.

He struggles greatly to turn his head around downfield. Anticipation and ball skills are not the same thing, he does have bad ball skills, his turnovers come from jumping routes, not beating receivers for the catch.

[GrimCoconut]

42 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He struggles greatly to turn his head around downfield. Anticipation and ball skills are not the same thing, he does have bad ball skills, his turnovers come from jumping routes, not beating receivers for the catch.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/3zwaf0/kendall_fuller_cb_va_tech_vs_purdue_game_analysis/

I don't feel like arguing with people so I'll let someone else do it for me. Fuller has ball skills, fellas. Not sure why people dislike Fuller. It's not like anyone here is saying he's the best CB by far in this Draft. I really like him, but he's in the mix for me with guys like Alexander and others. I don't like the concept that seems to be prevalent around here that you need to disparage one prospect if you like another. 

He does struggle to turn his head, but I've seen Alexander also not turn his head a ton in Clemson games I watched. I'd have to go back and tell you the specific games, but let's get real: any of these CBs at the top of this Draft could bust or boom. I love Fuller, but I admit he could fail and be a bust. Could Alexander also bust? Damn right. People say he is a bit too small or he is perhaps masked by a good pass rush or whatever or that he doesn't have ball skills because of his lack of interceptions. I honestly don't care about Alexander's lack of INTs. 

Hargreaves? Oh, yeah, baby! People practically threw him into the 2nd round after that little stretch of games he had at the end of the year. How about Ramsey? Sure. I recall people saying he had no ball skills but he [Ramsey] put on a clinic in the NFLPA event whatever that was. You and Cillmatic were calling him Megabust earlier in the year. I had concerns as well, but I was proven wrong. How about the new hype train CB, William Jackson? I like WJ3, but he's built lighter than Fuller and isn't exceptionally strong in press or man coverage. Eli Apple? He looked great against Amari Cooper in 2014 but then had an inconsistent 2015, but he's considered a 1st round guy. In fact, a few OSU fans I know are glad he is leaving. I personally don't agree with it, but that's their thoughts. 

I don't get why these other guys get absolutely no criticism reflected towards them from you and others. Yes, I'm talking about you because I see you constantly talking down Fuller and I've yet to read a rational reason why. You talk about stuff you see, but I don't see it. In fact, this forum is the FIRST place I've EVER heard anyone ever say Kendall Fuller has bad ball skills. Seriously. You guys are an outlier of your own. 

Sheesh, I said I didn't want to argue and yet I went on a tirade. Sorry, but I am passionate about this and I don't get fired up much about stuff, but I've been holding this in about Fuller and I've frankly had enough. 

Edited March 17, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[Dewy101]

48 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/3zwaf0/kendall_fuller_cb_va_tech_vs_purdue_game_analysis/

I don't feel like arguing with people so I'll let someone else do it for me. Fuller has ball skills, fellas. Not sure why people dislike Fuller. It's not like anyone here is saying he's the best CB by far in this Draft. I really like him, but he's in the mix for me with guys like Alexander and others. I don't like the concept that seems to be prevalent around here that you need to disparage one prospect if you like another. 

He does struggle to turn his head, but I've seen Alexander also not turn his head a ton in Clemson games I watched. I'd have to go back and tell you the specific games, but let's get real: any of these CBs at the top of this Draft could bust or boom. I love Fuller, but I admit he could fail and be a bust. Could Alexander also bust? Damn right. People say he is a bit too small or he is perhaps masked by a good pass rush or whatever or that he doesn't have ball skills because of his lack of interceptions. I honestly don't care about Alexander's lack of INTs. 

Hargreaves? Oh, yeah, baby! People practically threw him into the 2nd round after that little stretch of games he had at the end of the year. How about Ramsey? Sure. I recall people saying he had no ball skills but he [Ramsey] put on a clinic in the NFLPA event whatever that was. You and Cillmatic were calling him Megabust earlier in the year. I had concerns as well, but I was proven wrong. How about the new hype train CB, William Jackson? I like WJ3, but he's built lighter than Fuller and isn't exceptionally strong in press or man coverage. Eli Apple? He looked great against Amari Cooper in 2014 but then had an inconsistent 2015, but he's considered a 1st round guy. In fact, a few OSU fans I know are glad he is leaving. I personally don't agree with it, but that's their thoughts. 

I don't get why these other guys get absolutely no criticism reflected towards them from you and others. Yes, I'm talking about you because I see you constantly talking down Fuller and I've yet to read a rational reason why. You talk about stuff you see, but I don't see it. In fact, this forum is the FIRST place I've EVER heard anyone ever say Kendall Fuller has bad ball skills. Seriously. You guys are an outlier of your own. 

Sheesh, I said I didn't want to argue and yet I went on a tirade. Sorry, but I am passionate about this and I don't get fired up much about stuff, but I've been holding this in about Fuller and I've frankly had enough. 

Did you even watch that Purdue game he got beat on a double move in the 1st q 7:04 mark. Instead of turning around to look for the ball he runs into the receiver and gets called for PI. Ohio State 2015 he gets beat by Michael Thomas by a double move.  Where are his balls skills there? Ok fine he was playing hurt if thats your excuse.  Ohio State 2014 1st quarter 4:37 mark. He get beat in press coverage bad throw by QB but Fuller still gets flagged. 2nd Q 8:08 mark Michael Thomas breaks his ankles on a out route. He five yards behind Thomas Where are his balls skills? 3rd Q 7:27 he's holding Thomas 10 ten yards past the line of scrimmage but it doesn't get called. He's going to playing better receivers that Thomas in the NFL I can keep going if you like. He's not an outside corner right now at best a slot corner but he's going to have some struggles there until he gets proper coaching. He isn't a high second round pick 

Edited March 17, 2016 by Dewy101

[Dewy101]

I like how my posts get voted down when I provided proof of Fullers game haha

[Dewy101]

2 hours ago, Cville-Raven said:

lol someone is really questioning Fuller's ball skills. The guy is a ball hawk. Btw I really like this mock Grim.

I've never seen Fuller turn around and look to intercept the ball instead he just runs into receivers and gets called for PI haha

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/3zwaf0/kendall_fuller_cb_va_tech_vs_purdue_game_analysis/

I don't feel like arguing with people so I'll let someone else do it for me. Fuller has ball skills, fellas. Not sure why people dislike Fuller. It's not like anyone here is saying he's the best CB by far in this Draft. I really like him, but he's in the mix for me with guys like Alexander and others. I don't like the concept that seems to be prevalent around here that you need to disparage one prospect if you like another. 

He does struggle to turn his head, but I've seen Alexander also not turn his head a ton in Clemson games I watched. I'd have to go back and tell you the specific games, but let's get real: any of these CBs at the top of this Draft could bust or boom. I love Fuller, but I admit he could fail and be a bust. Could Alexander also bust? Damn right. People say he is a bit too small or he is perhaps masked by a good pass rush or whatever or that he doesn't have ball skills because of his lack of interceptions. I honestly don't care about Alexander's lack of INTs. 

Hargreaves? Oh, yeah, baby! People practically threw him into the 2nd round after that little stretch of games he had at the end of the year. How about Ramsey? Sure. I recall people saying he had no ball skills but he [Ramsey] put on a clinic in the NFLPA event whatever that was. You and Cillmatic were calling him Megabust earlier in the year. I had concerns as well, but I was proven wrong. How about the new hype train CB, William Jackson? I like WJ3, but he's built lighter than Fuller and isn't exceptionally strong in press or man coverage. Eli Apple? He looked great against Amari Cooper in 2014 but then had an inconsistent 2015, but he's considered a 1st round guy. In fact, a few OSU fans I know are glad he is leaving. I personally don't agree with it, but that's their thoughts. 

I don't get why these other guys get absolutely no criticism reflected towards them from you and others. Yes, I'm talking about you because I see you constantly talking down Fuller and I've yet to read a rational reason why. You talk about stuff you see, but I don't see it. In fact, this forum is the FIRST place I've EVER heard anyone ever say Kendall Fuller has bad ball skills. Seriously. You guys are an outlier of your own. 

Sheesh, I said I didn't want to argue and yet I went on a tirade. Sorry, but I am passionate about this and I don't get fired up much about stuff, but I've been holding this in about Fuller and I've frankly had enough. 

To be clear, I have warmed up a bit on fuller, but I still think he's more of a mid 2nd kind of value and we may be reaching at our apot depending on who is there. I never really disliked him to begin with I just had a lot of guys I preferred in the 2nd. His deep ball tracking and body control are not good at all, but then again He is a college cb and you rarely find those traits outside of the top 20, and i personally Don't see a db in the draft with true proven ball skills outside of vh3, Ramsey has definitely shown more ball skills in underwear than in film but that doesn't mean he doesn't have them, and I still love Ramsey even though I was wary of him earlier in the process. 

 

Basically what I'm saying is dont hate any prospects like you are saying, I look at it like you, i'll overrate and underrate guys and have personal preferences but I'm not gonna go bashing a good prospect because of it, I just see what I see in a player and the fact is that When fuller is trying to get downfield and the ball is in the air, you are gonna be holding your breath hoping like hell it was undertrhown otherwise fuller is gonna struggle to locate it.

[JoeyFlex5]

And for the record grim, I don't see first round in apple, I simply do not. I'd take fuller over him because Apple seems like he's not all there mentally and I think Just about every other cb in The first 2 rounds are safer bets with higher ceilings.

[BmoreBird22]

10 hours ago, Dewy101 said:

He's a reach in the second where there will be better prospects available. He struggled off man against Ohio state in 2014 and 2015. He just gives up too much ground to receivers. I'd love to see where he's good in off man coverage because I can show you a dozen plays where he just doesn't have the play recognition to play off man. Where are his ball skills? He never looks for the ball when getting beat deep or on double moves. He just decides to run into the receiver and gets called for PIs

Oh, you mean when he had a broken wrist and torn meniscus?

[BmoreBird22]

5 hours ago, Dewy101 said:

I've never seen Fuller turn around and look to intercept the ball instead he just runs into receivers and gets called for PI haha

So, having the most pass deflections in the country over the course of all the games he's played means nothing, I guess.

[GrimCoconut]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

And for the record grim, I don't see first round in apple, I simply do not. I'd take fuller over him because Apple seems like he's not all there mentally and I think Just about every other cb in The first 2 rounds are safer bets with higher ceilings.

 

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

To be clear, I have warmed up a bit on fuller, but I still think he's more of a mid 2nd kind of value and we may be reaching at our apot depending on who is there. I never really disliked him to begin with I just had a lot of guys I preferred in the 2nd. His deep ball tracking and body control are not good at all, but then again He is a college cb and you rarely find those traits outside of the top 20, and i personally Don't see a db in the draft with true proven ball skills outside of vh3, Ramsey has definitely shown more ball skills in underwear than in film but that doesn't mean he doesn't have them, and I still love Ramsey even though I was wary of him earlier in the process. 

 

Basically what I'm saying is dont hate any prospects like you are saying, I look at it like you, i'll overrate and underrate guys and have personal preferences but I'm not gonna go bashing a good prospect because of it, I just see what I see in a player and the fact is that When fuller is trying to get downfield and the ball is in the air, you are gonna be holding your breath hoping like hell it was undertrhown otherwise fuller is gonna struggle to locate it.

I don't know man. Maybe my memory is making something out of nothing. It wouldn't be the first time my memory exaggerated something. That said, I don't disagree regarding Fuller's deep game because that's frankly one of his weaknesses as far as I'm concerned, but Fuller has ball skills. He can read plays. If there's anything I've seen from Fuller it's that he sometimes guesses too much to make a play and it bites him. He's got good hips and can flip them. I think he falls into a group of guys who are all lumped together. 

[BmoreBird22]

Anyone who questions Fuller's ball skills is a person that I have to question whether they just watched three games and called it a day. Unlike many people on here, I have watched every single one of his games and had seen him play live at least 10 times, likely more. 

Fuller has the most impressive short to intermediate ball skills in the entire draft. He's got impressive route recognition in those areas and a great read and react to see the quarterbacks intentions and take full advantage. In 2013 and 2014, Fuller had eight interceptions and 35 pass deflections (those are the most pass deflections over that time frame) in 28 games, which doesn't happen by accident. He's got receiver like ball skills when the ball is in front of him. He has that mentality that every single pass should be his. 

I wish 2013 were available on draftbreakdown.com because that was his one truly healthy season. That Duke game was a seriously amazing game and I encourage anyone to look up that game if it's available because he had three interceptions and two bounce out of his hands (fairly difficult plays on the ball) and if it weren't for Logan Thomas throwing four or five interceptions, Fuller would have won that game for Tech.

Now, I will admit that his long speed is a concern, but that's the only major concern that I have. He's not going to be able to consistently run in phase with faster receivers down the field, and he won't be able to consistently turn his head, but he shows an impressive to read the receiver and knock passes away by simply reading the receivers eyes and arms. That is 50/50 in terms of pass deflection/PI, but honestly, for as much as people hype up Hargreaves, he even has long ball issues and gets beat over the top. 

He's also an extremely aggressive player in run support with no hesitations to come downfield and pop a running back. Really solid tackler who can really deliver a jolt. The only negative there is that he can't get off a block to save his life, but he's very willing to try, which is more than many corners can say.

Fuller will be at his best in an off-man, physical zone coverage team. He's got amazing ball skills when the play is in front of him and he can see the play develop. 

Oh, and for anyone who's really that worried about how he played against Michael Thomas, consider Michael Thomas is probably the best route runner in college football. Sure, there are better receivers in terms of height/weight/speed ratios, but no one runs silkier routes and he's got the dirtiest double move in college. And as far as biting on the double moves in 2015 (Purdue, Ohio State), he had a torn meniscus since training camp. A torn meniscus caused Myles Jack to leave a game and not return to college football again. Fuller played through it. And do you know what the meniscus is for? It helps evenly distribute the weight of the femur over the tibia so that it doesn't pinpoint onto one portion of the tibia, providing stability to the knee. In short, it makes your knee stable and makes cutting and lateral change of direction a lot more difficult. So basically, some of the premium skills for a corner were handicapped because he was too tough to give up. In 2014, he was playing with a broken wrist for the most of the season. 

[Winchester]

10 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Me too! I don't understand those Anti-Bosa Ravens fans lol If PFF has him graded out as the best DE two years straight then I trust that on top of what i have already seen. The guy has the size and strength, a revved up motor that never stops, above average speed for a 270 LB Lineman/future OLB, high football IQ, and is extremely good at disengaging blockers with his hands. Best Case Scenario - He transforms into a OLB that is a top run defender who gets to the QB for over 10 sacks each year and is a defensive captain.Worst Case Scenario- He is not a great OLB and bulks up to 280-295 and becomes a very solid DE and shuts down the run and accrues 3-6 sacks from the interior and often gets pressure.

I agree. I do not get some of the statements regarding his athleticism and flexibility. The way he can bend and simultaneously use his hands with explosion and power from awkward positions is special stuff!! Going by his age,frame,length and muscle development so far Bosa will eventually play at about 285lbs with no loss in speed. In fact he most likely get a little more explosive as his muscles mature  by time he is 23.  As long as he is committed to the weight room and exercise\drills. And yes he could play olb at 285lbs.  His vertical and long jump will get better as well. 4.75 speed is fast for the rush olb position at 285lbs!! which will be his playweight. 285lbs or so and 4.75 speed with burst and twitch is awesome. Some feel the jj watt comparison is lazy cuz player comparisons are often lazy and often based on how a dude looks than plays. However Bosa's skillset is similar to JJ Watts.

[RavensDieHard21]

4 hours ago, Winchester said:

I agree. I do not get some of the statements regarding his athleticism and flexibility. The way he can bend and simultaneously use his hands with explosion and power from awkward positions is special stuff!! Going by his age,frame,length and muscle development so far Bosa will eventually play at about 285lbs with no loss in speed. In fact he most likely get a little more explosive as his muscles mature  by time he is 23.  As long as he is committed to the weight room and exercise\drills. And yes he could play olb at 285lbs.  His vertical and long jump will get better as well. 4.75 speed is fast for the rush olb position at 285lbs!! which will be his playweight. 285lbs or so and 4.75 speed with burst and twitch is awesome. Some feel the jj watt comparison is lazy cuz player comparisons are often lazy and often based on how a dude looks than plays. However Bosa's skillset is similar to JJ Watts.

Spot on. He's my favorite potential pick at 6, but I keep feeling that Dallas will take him, but if they don't it's almost certain he will be in black and purple next year

[Dewy101]

8 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

So, having the most pass deflections in the country over the course of all the games he's played means nothing, I guess.

Yes it means nothing. Do you even know how to watch tape? Most of those throws that he's defended passes on are bad throws by QBs. You're not going to see a lot of those in the NFL 

[Dewy101]

8 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Oh, you mean when he had a broken wrist and torn meniscus?

So you're projecting his play to the NFL?  Show me some evidence of his game that is good I've provided you examples where he's been bad. Show me where to look where Fuller has actually been good? Don't throw stats at me they can easily be misinterpreted. 

[Dewy101]

7 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Anyone who questions Fuller's ball skills is a person that I have to question whether they just watched three games and called it a day. Unlike many people on here, I have watched every single one of his games and had seen him play live at least 10 times, likely more. 

Fuller has the most impressive short to intermediate ball skills in the entire draft. He's got impressive route recognition in those areas and a great read and react to see the quarterbacks intentions and take full advantage. In 2013 and 2014, Fuller had eight interceptions and 35 pass deflections (those are the most pass deflections over that time frame) in 28 games, which doesn't happen by accident. He's got receiver like ball skills when the ball is in front of him. He has that mentality that every single pass should be his. 

I wish 2013 were available on draftbreakdown.com because that was his one truly healthy season. That Duke game was a seriously amazing game and I encourage anyone to look up that game if it's available because he had three interceptions and two bounce out of his hands (fairly difficult plays on the ball) and if it weren't for Logan Thomas throwing four or five interceptions, Fuller would have won that game for Tech.

Now, I will admit that his long speed is a concern, but that's the only major concern that I have. He's not going to be able to consistently run in phase with faster receivers down the field, and he won't be able to consistently turn his head, but he shows an impressive to read the receiver and knock passes away by simply reading the receivers eyes and arms. That is 50/50 in terms of pass deflection/PI, but honestly, for as much as people hype up Hargreaves, he even has long ball issues and gets beat over the top. 

He's also an extremely aggressive player in run support with no hesitations to come downfield and pop a running back. Really solid tackler who can really deliver a jolt. The only negative there is that he can't get off a block to save his life, but he's very willing to try, which is more than many corners can say.

Fuller will be at his best in an off-man, physical zone coverage team. He's got amazing ball skills when the play is in front of him and he can see the play develop. 

Oh, and for anyone who's really that worried about how he played against Michael Thomas, consider Michael Thomas is probably the best route runner in college football. Sure, there are better receivers in terms of height/weight/speed ratios, but no one runs silkier routes and he's got the dirtiest double move in college. And as far as biting on the double moves in 2015 (Purdue, Ohio State), he had a torn meniscus since training camp. A torn meniscus caused Myles Jack to leave a game and not return to college football again. Fuller played through it. And do you know what the meniscus is for? It helps evenly distribute the weight of the femur over the tibia so that it doesn't pinpoint onto one portion of the tibia, providing stability to the knee. In short, it makes your knee stable and makes cutting and lateral change of direction a lot more difficult. So basically, some of the premium skills for a corner were handicapped because he was too tough to give up. In 2014, he was playing with a broken wrist for the most of the season. 

Lol he was just as bad against double moves in 2014. Was that because of his wrist? Stats using misleading stats they mean nothing when projecting college players to the NFL. He's not a ball hawk he just doesn't turn his head around to attack the ball. Show me where he's actually done that? He just give up to much cushion to receivers in man and off coverage. He has a hard time sticking to anyone. 

[JoeyFlex5]

I'm seeing lots regarding fullers ball skills using interceptions and deflections as the measuring stick, and bmorebird you said specifically short to intermediate ball skills, that comes as a result of great reads, we never questioned his ability to get the ball and take it the other way, from the beginning the concern has been turning his head whilst running downfield and locating the ball, which is a weakness in an area that I'd consider to be ball skills. 

 

And grim you probably remember me overstating that I wasn't a fuller fan for his guessing and lack of deep ball tracking, I did overstate it when he was being hyped for a short time, I tend to emphatically point out weaknesses in a player that I feel is being overhyped lol

[KBoum]

Just watched Fullers tapes. He looked a lot more fluid in 2014. One thing that stood for me in the 2015 game vs Ohio : Thomas route running. He's smoooth and precise. 

 

Fuller have problem with closing/recovery speed. He doens't have problem locating the ball when he's not beat. He did pretty well vs North Carolina. 

I can see the potentiel in a tampa 2 defense playing the flat. Will need to wrap up more in tackling though. He sells the cover 3 deep too early he's affraid to get beat deep. As long as this guy keeps eveything in front of him, he's good. He's jumping the shorter routes and he's very good underneath coverage but not so great when his back is turned.

 

Remins me a bit of Malcom Jenkins. Might end up a better safety who knows

[Wildabeast88]

Awesome mock. Bosa is a beast I like Fuller most experts says he is better than his brother who has been an NFL starter for a couple years for the doubters is there such thing as a perfect prospect no but Fuller's issues can be fixed with a little coaching I would be fine with him

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'm seeing lots regarding fullers ball skills using interceptions and deflections as the measuring stick, and bmorebird you said specifically short to intermediate ball skills, that comes as a result of great reads, we never questioned his ability to get the ball and take it the other way, from the beginning the concern has been turning his head whilst running downfield and locating the ball, which is a weakness in an area that I'd consider to be ball skills. 

 

And grim you probably remember me overstating that I wasn't a fuller fan for his guessing and lack of deep ball tracking, I did overstate it when he was being hyped for a short time, I tend to emphatically point out weaknesses in a player that I feel is being overhyped lol

Okay, but not turning his head on deep passes isn't bad ball skills overall. That's an issue that all of us acknowledge not because he doesn't have ball skills, but rather because he's not fast enough to keep up. 

When I get home, I'll make a cut up of his ball skills because reading the quarterback and then taking the ball away is a part of ball skills

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, KBoum said:

Just watched Fullers tapes. He looked a lot more fluid in 2014. One thing that stood for me in the 2015 game vs Ohio : Thomas route running. He's smoooth and precise. 

 

Fuller have problem with closing/recovery speed. He doens't have problem locating the ball when he's not beat. He did pretty well vs North Carolina. 

I can see the potentiel in a tampa 2 defense playing the flat. Will need to wrap up more in tackling though. He sells the cover 3 deep too early he's affraid to get beat deep. As long as this guy keeps eveything in front of him, he's good. He's jumping the shorter routes and he's very good underneath coverage but not so great when his back is turned.

 

Remins me a bit of Malcom Jenkins. Might end up a better safety who knows

Hey, someone who actually has a very good grasp of how Fuller plays. Well done, sir

[BmoreBird22]

15 hours ago, Dewy101 said:

Lol he was just as bad against double moves in 2014. Was that because of his wrist? Stats using misleading stats they mean nothing when projecting college players to the NFL. He's not a ball hawk he just doesn't turn his head around to attack the ball. Show me where he's actually done that? He just give up to much cushion to receivers in man and off coverage. He has a hard time sticking to anyone. 

Which games did you actually watch? 

II'm at work, so I can't do a cut up, but I'm curious to see how many you've seen

For what ever reason, it won't let me actually create a gif cutup for you on draftbreakdown.com, but I can just point out specific plays.

Go to Cincinnati (2014) and go to 0:35 seconds. He seamlessly carries his man down the field using outside leverage, knowing he has linebacker help over the middle. When the quarterback takes a shot, he aligns himself perfectly in front of his man and goes up and high points the ball like a receiver with a receiver trying to snatch at the ball. He doesn't wait for the ball; he goes up and attacks it with both hands for the interception. At 1:57, he initially gets beat to the inside, but uses his impressive burst and closing speed to work his way to the ball and reaches inside the receiver to swat the ball away without drawing a flag for tugging on the jersey or pulling the receiver back.

Go to North Carolina (2014) and go to 1:17. Fuller stays in phase with his man down the sideline and when the ball is thrown, makes an adjustment to not only move inside, but also gets to the ball at its highest point to swat it down. This won't be exactly what you're looking for, but it's a very impressive play. Go to 2:17. Fuller lines up in off man coverage and before the quarterback has begun his wind up, Fuller has begun to break toward the receiver. He then easily jumps the route and takes the interception in for a touchdown. Given the anticipation and how quickly he jumped the route, he ended up with the ball behind him, but was able to secure the interception nonetheless. Go to 5:42. This is exactly how that play from Cinci should have looked. He plays off man, reads the route, and undercuts the route perfectly for what should have been an interception, but, you know, tough play on the ball.

Go to Furman (2015) and go to 2:07. Fuller lines up about 10 yards off the ball, but quickly reads the ball before the quarterback is even thinking of winding up. He drops back 25 yards from the numbers and goes to the right hash. He then high points the ball and attacks it with both hands. Overthrown or not, Fuller made a receiver like play on the ball and showed extremely impressive range. 

Also, I watched all those 2014 games, again, and not once did I actually see a double move beat Fuller. Got any examples of it? 

Edited March 18, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, GrimCoconut said:

This is exactly what @BmoreBird22 and I have said. 

And it's what I'll continue to say because it's 100% true, except I think he has pretty good closing speed and burst. Good short area quickness, no long speed

[cushrinada1986]

On 3/16/2016 at 10:28 PM, GrimCoconut said:

I've had this in progress for some time, but wanted to wait to see a few Pro Days and stuff before posting it. I'm trying to do fewer mocks this year due to school. Since some of the dust of FA has settled, I have a better picture of how things will play out and how the first 5 picks should go before we're on the clock. With that said, here it is, ladies & gentlemen. My mock.

Round 1, Pick 6: Joey Bosa, Edge Defender, Ohio State

 

I keep going back and forth here. I want to go with popular opinion that he’s not here, but I think Bosa will be here and he will be a Raven. Staying true to my gut. We get our future stud pass rusher.

 

 

Round 2: Kendall Fuller, CB, Virginia Tech

 

I think Fuller gets lost in the CB shuffle due to a very talented top-heavy CB class. Fuller is an ideal fit in many ways for this defense. He brings what we need on defense, and that’s turnovers. I feel good about him being here.

 

 

Round 3: Kentrell Brothers, LB, Missouri

 

Linebackers have a tendency to fall & while I think Brothers should go higher, I think he’ll go somewhere around here due to an average Combine in terms of athleticism. He should provide the coverage skills we need at ILB. I like him across from Mosley.

 

Round 4: Willie Beavers, OL, Western Michigan

 

This guy’s my favorite value OL in the Draft. He’s got the feet, quickness, and stance to play LT and other positions. He’ll be depth LT (which is what we need at LT atm with Monroe) & potentially more if/when Monroe goes down. I think he could eventually replace Monroe, and should blossom with Castillo. 

 

Round 4 via DEN: Sean Davis, DB, Maryland

 

Surprised nobody talks about this Terp. He needs work, but he has the athleticism to be a beastly player in the secondary & can be both a safety & CB. Good ball skills.

 

Round 4 comp (McPhee): Sheldon Day, DL, Notre Dame

 

I love what I’ve seen from Day as a pass rusher. He is very quick off the ball and is an underrated defender in a very good DL class.

 

Round 4 comp (Torrey): Kolby Listenbee, WR, TCU

 

Straight-line, deep speed threat with good hands. Say what? Just what we needed.

 

Round 6: Aaron Wallace, OLB, UCLA

 

I’m sometimes surprised nobody talks about Wallace, but then again not really since Jack overshadows him. I think Wallace has a lot of unlocked potential as a pass rusher and he did a very good job at his Pro Day today. 

 

Round 6 comp (Daniels): Keith Marshall, RB, Georgia

 

I like Marshall a lot in the ZBS. I thought he caught the ball pretty well in RB drills at the Combine. He will need a little bit of work, but I think he’s an underrated player and he provides some RB competition

 

 

Would be hard to take Sean Davis if Miles Killbrew is still on the board. Guy is a solid tackler and paired with terrence brooks would make a good back up squad for web and weddle.

 

 

[GrimCoconut]

For the record, I believe Alexander is gone before we pick. If Alexander and Fuller are both on the board, however, I am going Alexander and changing the pick. Just putting that out there.