Welcome to Baltimore Eric Weddle!

[JoeyFlex5]

Ray rice and Ngata have been killing us for a while now, they're finally gone and it's now replaced with pitta and monroe, fortunately they won't be hurting us for long after this year, we have to hope that Jimmy and yanda are at least on the field and playing well unlike those guys. That's why they hurt us so bad, they weren't even suiting up and taking up huge chunks, it's a scare with Jimmy but he's your best defensive player when healthy and you gotta do what you gotta do to stay afloat. Cutting Jimmy would be saying that this team is dead and we are committed to a 3 year rebuild, cutting Jimmy honestly wouldn't have been far off from cutting flacco in terms of how it looks to everyone from the outside

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, atomicfront said:

Well I think Ozzie is putting us in a bad situation down the road.  I think he knows this is a big year for him. If the team makes the playoffs he is secure in his job. If the team self-destructs again it won't look good for Ozzie.  After the super bowl they didn't try to keep anyone. I think that would have been the time to kick the can down the road. Now they should be re-building.  But I am not the one who's job is on the line. 

Something tells me Ozzie's job isn't on the line either, since there's really no reason for it to be.

We all know what happens when fans and only fans drive speculation... it never gets past the speculation phase.

[rmcjacket23]

The Baltimore Sun's Jeff Zrebiec speculates Ravens SS Will Hill could be a cap cut following the signing of FS Eric Weddle.

Lardarius Webb's $9.5 million cap hit would be the most obvious cut, but Baltimore has made it clear they see Webb as a starting safety this season. Hill was the Ravens' best safety last year, but it could be difficult to justify his nearly $4.6 million cap hit if he is riding the bench. That said, Webb should be asked to play in the slot in sub packages, and both Webb and Weddle profile more as free safeties. It is possible all three are on the field together for the majority of the snaps in 2016. If anyone is getting cut, mega-bust Matt Elam might be the best candidate.

 

 

Source: Baltimore Sun

Mar 15 - 9:06 AM

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Ray rice and Ngata have been killing us for a while now, they're finally gone and it's now replaced with pitta and monroe, fortunately they won't be hurting us for long after this year, we have to hope that Jimmy and yanda are at least on the field and playing well unlike those guys. That's why they hurt us so bad, they weren't even suiting up and taking up huge chunks, it's a scare with Jimmy but he's your best defensive player when healthy and you gotta do what you gotta do to stay afloat. Cutting Jimmy would be saying that this team is dead and we are committed to a 3 year rebuild, cutting Jimmy honestly wouldn't have been far off from cutting flacco in terms of how it looks to everyone from the outside

Just so everybody is aware... Ngata and Rice's dead money only impacted 2015... they weren't killing us in any year before that.

[Drew P]

Good pickup. Will bring stability to a circus of a secondary.

[JoeyFlex5]

7 hours ago, Daft Classic said:

Where have you read that? Everything I've seen has graded Hill as our best defensive player let alone in the secondary

Hill has been an erratic playmaker. 

 

You could make an argument that his lapses in coverage have been due to making up for subpar guys around him, but there isn't any proof of that yet. Rumors said he was a fs but that proved to be a lie, he is clearly a SS, which is fine, but hill has shown time and time again that he is not an elite deep cover guy, he lacks the range and ability to read the qb consistently, he is by all means an elite strong safety though, as long as he plays a strong role and isn't asked to cover a deep half too often and is allowed to attack and man cover those who are too physical for our cbs.

 

He struggled a lot last year, he was caught playing out of position way too often and have up big plays, he abandoned his cbs by making the wrong reads too often. 

[757RavensFan]

Who better to whip this secondary into a top tier unit than Leslie Frasier.?

The puzzle pieces are there, they just need to put it together. 

[atomicfront]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The Baltimore Sun's Jeff Zrebiec speculates Ravens SS Will Hill could be a cap cut following the signing of FS Eric Weddle.

Lardarius Webb's $9.5 million cap hit would be the most obvious cut, but Baltimore has made it clear they see Webb as a starting safety this season. Hill was the Ravens' best safety last year, but it could be difficult to justify his nearly $4.6 million cap hit if he is riding the bench. That said, Webb should be asked to play in the slot in sub packages, and both Webb and Weddle profile more as free safeties. It is possible all three are on the field together for the majority of the snaps in 2016. If anyone is getting cut, mega-bust Matt Elam might be the best candidate.

 

 

Source: Baltimore Sun

Mar 15 - 9:06 AM

Hard to take a journalist serious if he doesn't even know the facts.  Cutting Webb would save 3.5 million dollars in cap hit.  Will Hill 2.8 million.   Why are these guys so against depth?  Webb and Will Hill are still much better than the practice squad filching we have been doing to man our secondary the past couple of years. 

[JoeyFlex5]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Just so everybody is aware... Ngata and Rice's dead money only impacted 2015... they weren't killing us in any year before that.

Not dead money, cap hit in general. Ngata was hurt often and was playing average while carrying the highest cap figure on the team(i think, correct me if I'm wrong) and Ray rice played horrible in 2013, was suspended in 2014, and was all dead money in 2015, add in pittas cap hits and you have an ugly amount of cap space tied up in dead weight. 

 

A hindrance on the cap doesn't always come in The form of a cut players dead money.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, atomicfront said:

Hard to take a journalist serious if he doesn't even know the facts.  Cutting Webb would save 3.5 million dollars in cap hit.  Will Hill 2.8 million.   Why are these guys so against depth?  Webb and Will Hill are still much better than the practice squad filching we have been doing to man our secondary the past couple of years. 

More things in play then just price though. 

Webb's under contract for two more years, while Hill is a FA after this one. Certainly reasonable to think we won't retain him after this year. If they legitimately think Hill will be the third best safety on the team, then his cap number probably is too large. 

I wouldn't cut him, but its not up to me. I'd put all three of them on the field often and I think our secondary will be pretty good with improved play from our corners.

Very possible that's only a one year arrangement though.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 minutes ago, atomicfront said:

Hard to take a journalist serious if he doesn't even know the facts.  Cutting Webb would save 3.5 million dollars in cap hit.  Will Hill 2.8 million.   Why are these guys so against depth?  Webb and Will Hill are still much better than the practice squad filching we have been doing to man our secondary the past couple of years. 

As has been shown time and time again, depth is key to a championship run. Name a team who hasn't had a serious injury at one point every year, if you cant win in spite of injuries then you don't have a well managed roster. 

 

Hill or Webb as a backup is a very strong case of depth, even if they're overpaid. Now we need depth at pass rush and OL

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

More things in play then just price though. 

Webb's under contract for two more years, while Hill is a FA after this one. Certainly reasonable to think we won't retain him after this year. If they legitimately think Hill will be the third best safety on the team, then his cap number probably is too large. 

I wouldn't cut him, but its not up to me. I'd put all three of them on the field often and I think our secondary will be pretty good with improved play from our corners.

Very possible that's only a one year arrangement though.

I've thought for a while that hill will be gone after this year. I get the feeling that he wants money. I would try to work out a mutual agreement with Webb to cut him and immediately resign him to an appropriate figure. He is the obvious starter at nickel while hill and weddle are the safeties, with Jimmy Smith and hopefully Wright continuing where He leftt off would make up a strong secondary. Its worth carrying the numbers for a year to keep it together and see what we have there.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Not dead money, cap hit in general. Ngata was hurt often and was playing average while carrying the highest cap figure on the team(i think, correct me if I'm wrong) and Ray rice played horrible in 2013, was suspended in 2014, and was all dead money in 2015, add in pittas cap hits and you have an ugly amount of cap space tied up in dead weight. 

 

A hindrance on the cap doesn't always come in The form of a cut players dead money.

1. I didn't really have a problem with Ngata's cap hit through 2014. A large amount of that cap hit was in fact dead money from previously paid signing bonuses, but we also got great production at below-market value for many years before that.

2. Rice actually created us space by getting suspended in 2014, and again, much of his cap hits in those periods came from previously paid signing bonuses.

That's the thing about dead money... it isn't just dead when the player is gone. Almost half of Joe's cap number for this season ($10.5M of the $22.5M) has nothing to do with 2016... its all for signing bonuses paid years ago.

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I've thought for a while that hill will be gone after this year. I get the feeling that he wants money. I would try to work out a mutual agreement with Webb to cut him and immediately resign him to an appropriate figure. He is the obvious starter at nickel while hill and weddle are the safeties, with Jimmy Smith and hopefully Wright continuing where He leftt off would make up a strong secondary. Its worth carrying the numbers for a year to keep it together and see what we have there.

Well, there's really no point in cutting him and then resigning him... you'd just ask for a paycut.

Cutting him and then resigning him has the same affect on the salary cap as him taking the paycut.

Interesting catch with Webb is that his cap number actually drops by $2M from 2016 to 2017. Cap number for next season is $7.5M with a $5.5M salary, which won't be unreasonable if he has a good year. Probably looking at an extension at that point, and I can't see them extending two safeties in the same year.

I agree that I think Hill is leaving for a bigger payday after this season. I think we will prioritize Brandon Williams and maybe even Rick Wagner over him.

[1/28/01]

28 minutes ago, atomicfront said:

Well I think Ozzie is putting us in a bad situation down the road.  I think he knows this is a big year for him. If the team makes the playoffs he is secure in his job. If the team self-destructs again it won't look good for Ozzie.  After the super bowl they didn't try to keep anyone. I think that would have been the time to kick the can down the road. Now they should be re-building.  But I am not the one who's job is on the line. 

Neither is Ozzies. 

[GrimCoconut]

Certainly someone would trade for Will Hill before we'd have to cut him. This draft is loaded with safeties but it's not like Hill has some mega contract. He stayed clean last year and I don't see why he'd go. How about my man Kendrick Lewis? Maybe he should go. 

[atomicfront]

The other thing is we dont' need to clear up salary cap space we already did that. Other than signing June 1st cuts who are we going to use more money for?   We can cut Pitta June 1st and save 5 million.   That can be used towards our picks.  

Edited March 15, 2016 by atomicfront

[GrimCoconut]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, there's really no point in cutting him and then resigning him... you'd just ask for a paycut.

Cutting him and then resigning him has the same affect on the salary cap as him taking the paycut.

Interesting catch with Webb is that his cap number actually drops by $2M from 2016 to 2017. Cap number for next season is $7.5M with a $5.5M salary, which won't be unreasonable if he has a good year. Probably looking at an extension at that point, and I can't see them extending two safeties in the same year.

I agree that I think Hill is leaving for a bigger payday after this season. I think we will prioritize Brandon Williams and maybe even Rick Wagner over him.

Juszczyk, Williams, Tucker, and Wagner should all get prioritized first. 

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Juszczyk, Williams, Tucker, and Wagner should all get prioritized first. 

Pretty much yes. I'm largely assuming Tucker signs an extension this season, because I really can't see a reason why a deal couldn't get done eventually. Tucker's value really can't get that much higher, and can only plummet with a bad season.

Juice is a FB, so retaining him shouldn't be that difficult from both a price and demand standpoint. 

I'm banking on Williams getting an extension before FA, and then us focusing on Wagner.

[The Raven]

1 hour ago, atomicfront said:

Hard to take a journalist serious if he doesn't even know the facts.  Cutting Webb would save 3.5 million dollars in cap hit.  Will Hill 2.8 million.   Why are these guys so against depth?  Webb and Will Hill are still much better than the practice squad filching we have been doing to man our secondary the past couple of years. 

He said cap hit, not cap savings.... Try reading next time. Maybe it wasn't worded clearly enough for you but he never said we'd save 9.5 or 4.5 by cutting either.

 

Yes, depth good. $9M on the bench, however, is not good. Hell, $4M on the bench isn't good.

Edited March 15, 2016 by The Raven

[GrimCoconut]

43 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Pretty much yes. I'm largely assuming Tucker signs an extension this season, because I really can't see a reason why a deal couldn't get done eventually. Tucker's value really can't get that much higher, and can only plummet with a bad season.

Juice is a FB, so retaining him shouldn't be that difficult from both a price and demand standpoint. 

I'm banking on Williams getting an extension before FA, and then us focusing on Wagner.

I agree regarding Williams and Tucker, but right now they're not so I'm just going off the current worst case. I also neglected to mention Aiken as another free agent, as well as Wagner. 

Next year looks quite rough. I'm sure we'll extend Williams and Tucker now so there's less madness next year. 

[The Raven]

58 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Certainly someone would trade for Will Hill before we'd have to cut him. This draft is loaded with safeties but it's not like Hill has some mega contract. He stayed clean last year and I don't see why he'd go. How about my man Kendrick Lewis? Maybe he should go. 

 

Yeah, Kendrick Lewis is my pick to cut. He played the run well and made tackles, but that's about it. His coverage was awful. The thing is though that Hill was benched, not Kendrick. Does the organization see Hill's contract or Kendrick's as the bigger waste?

[jazz1988]

5 minutes ago, The Raven said:

 

Yeah, Kendrick Lewis is my pick to cut. He played the run well and made tackles, but that's about it. His coverage was awful. The thing is though that Hill was benched, not Kendrick. Does the organization see Hill's contract or Kendrick's as the bigger waste?

 

Hill being benched could be injury related maybe The Ravens were giving him a rest. I thought I saw some where saying how Hill was playing with  a injury later on in the season.  

Edited March 15, 2016 by jazz1988

[GrimCoconut]

3 minutes ago, The Raven said:

 

Yeah, Kendrick Lewis is my pick to cut. He played the run well and made tackles, but that's about it. His coverage was awful. The thing is though that Hill was benched, not Kendrick. Does the organization see Hill's contract or Kendrick's as the bigger waste?

I'm not sure. I'm guessing if we cut/traded Hill we'd probably keep Lewis and make him, Brooks and Elam fight for the vacated SS position. Unless we plan on rolling with Webb and Weddle as our starting safeties and using a coverage LB like Jack or even a guy like Cravens as that LB/safety hybrid. 

[GrimCoconut]

1 minute ago, jazz1988 said:

 

Hill being benched could be injury related maybe The Ravens were giving him a rest. I thought I saw some where saying how Hill was playing with  a injury later on in the season.  

It just seems strange to cut or trade Hill after signing Weddle. Hill had that crazy field goal blocked kick recovery for a TD, too. I don't think Hill played as well as credited last year, but perhaps that's due to poor FS play. It is strange, however, that as Hill got fewer snaps towards the end of the year our secondary started playing better. 

[The Raven]

5 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

It just seems strange to cut or trade Hill after signing Weddle. Hill had that crazy field goal blocked kick recovery for a TD, too. I don't think Hill played as well as credited last year, but perhaps that's due to poor FS play. It is strange, however, that as Hill got fewer snaps towards the end of the year our secondary started playing better. 

Pees said all season that communication was the big issue in the secondary. Free safety is the communicator. Hill out, Webb in. Improvement. What this tells me is that Hill has all the physical talent but lacks the smarts and communication skills to lead a secondary.

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

Pees said all season that communication was the big issue in the secondary. Free safety is the communicator. Hill out, Webb in. Improvement. What this tells me is that Hill has all the physical talent but lacks the smarts and communication skills to lead a secondary.

yup.

we rely on out front 7 to stop the run which they do pretty well.

weddle and webb should solves any communication issues and blown coverages deep.

depending on the opponent formation i can see them all 3 on the field at the same time quite a lot since we love sub packages.

 

[jazz1988]

3 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

It just seems strange to cut or trade Hill after signing Weddle. Hill had that crazy field goal blocked kick recovery for a TD, too. I don't think Hill played as well as credited last year, but perhaps that's due to poor FS play. It is strange, however, that as Hill got fewer snaps towards the end of the year our secondary started playing better. 

 

True but also during the early part of the season it seem like Hill was the best player in The Ravens secondary. It's possible Hill could have been dealing with some unknown injury that affected his play but I honestly I don't know. I'm not sure if it's a  good idea to trade or cut him unless for some reason The Ravens feel like they have a good shot at Ramsey in the draft.

[jazz1988]

5 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Pees said all season that communication was the big issue in the secondary. Free safety is the communicator. Hill out, Webb in. Improvement. What this tells me is that Hill has all the physical talent but lacks the smarts and communication skills to lead a secondary.

True but Hill was starting at  strong safety for the majority of the season while Kendrick Lewis was starting at  free safety until Webb stepped in.

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, jazz1988 said:

 

True but also during the early part of the season it seem like Hill was the best player in The Ravens secondary. It's possible Hill could have been dealing with some unknown injury that affected his play but I honestly I don't know. I'm not sure if it's a  good idea to trade or cut him unless for some reason The Ravens feel like they have a good shot at Ramsey in the draft.

was not that hard to look good in the early part of the season TBH.