[News] Ravens Sign Cornerback Shareece Wright

[RavenROC]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Webb has missed four games in the last three seasons COMBINED.

If you were to exclude 2012, where he had the significant injury that cost him most of the season, he's averaged 15 regular season games played per season over the other six years.

A guy that misses one game a year on average should really be concerned a healthy person by NFL standards.

Bottom line... expect Webb to be our starting FS next season and play just about a full season, since that's typically what he does.

Bottom line, you're playing revisionist history. He's missed more than a full season's worth of games in 7 years. He's had 2 season ending knee injuries, which is significant for Webb being overpaid at safety. Feel like he's cut or forced to restructure in the next couple years. Their hands are tied this season with his cap hit, but that will change and they have a bit of depth there right now.

[fusuymada]

webby cant cover anymore and hes to small to play safety release him and lets get younger idk whats wrong with ozzie

I like to think there is something that these coaches are seeing or Ozzie is seeing that justifies Ozzie's decision. And remember, we are talking about a guy who would be a better cut after June 1 than before so Ozzie not doing anything at this point in time doesn't necessarily mean he is married to keeping Webb. But, that said, his cap number is more consistent with an average safety as opposed to an average corner and with that in consideration, he turns from an expensive player at cb to a good deal at safety. He does have a history of playing safety in college, granted it was a division II college at the time. Also, his ball skills are better suited for a safety than a corner. A safety will provide help over the top so speed isn't critical and a safety will also cover the TE which I think he will do well. For being small, Webb has always been a physical player so lets see how this plays out as we are a long way out before we get to the 53 man cut.

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, RavenROC said:

Bottom line, you're playing revisionist history. He's missed more than a full season's worth of games in 7 years. He's had 2 season ending knee injuries, which is significant for Webb being overpaid at safety. Feel like he's cut or forced to restructure in the next couple years. Their hands are tied this season with his cap hit, but that will change and they have a bit of depth there right now.

1. Well, if I'm revisionist history, then you, by definition, would also be playing revisionist history.

2. The bottom line is that you were exaggerating to emphasize your point, which is what I called you out for doing. He's played an average of 14 regular season games per season in his career, meaning he averages two missed games a year. As I already said, if you take away the one major injury that cost him major time, its more like one game per season. If he misses 1 or even 2 games next season, frankly, I'd be happy with that. This is the NFL after all.

You can play the "well he's guaranteed to miss 4 games" card, but that's not historically accurate, so you're basically just guessing how many games he will miss based on pulling a random number out of the sky. That's fine if that's your approach, but that's not my style.

I would also expect him to get a different deal going forward, because he is highly paid for a safety. However, he didn't sign his current deal as a safety, so that's not really his problem.

[goldenboldin]

why is this site printing like 4 articles on Wright, like it's a big deal or something? You would've thought we were signing Revis in his prime or something.

[WNC-Raven]

I was hoping Wright would be retained. I think even the possibility that Jimmy could step up his game around his HS buddy is worth the signing. Stupid thought? Maybe but sometimes it is the small things that make a big difference

[designermaryland]

If they think this guy is a starting CB and ignore picking one up in either round 1 or 2, we will be right back again next year talking about the glaring weaknesses in the secondary. I think Vontae Davis and Wright would be solid 3 and 4 DB's with the potential to step in for someone else but if we are relying on guys like this for an entire season, it is going to be another passing frenzy every week. It is a passing league now. You need at least 5 or 6 secondary guys who can cover.

[FloridalovesRavens]

webby cant cover anymore and hes to small to play safety release him and lets get younger idk whats wrong with ozzie

Nothing wrong with Ozzie. Apparently they see something in him or he'll be released. Let's wait and see what transpires before painting a grim picture for a season that hasn't been played yet. Hopefully we'll all be happy with the outcome.

[RavenROC]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Well, if I'm revisionist history, then you, by definition, would also be playing revisionist history.

2. The bottom line is that you were exaggerating to emphasize your point, which is what I called you out for doing. He's played an average of 14 regular season games per season in his career, meaning he averages two missed games a year. As I already said, if you take away the one major injury that cost him major time, its more like one game per season. If he misses 1 or even 2 games next season, frankly, I'd be happy with that. This is the NFL after all.

You can play the "well he's guaranteed to miss 4 games" card, but that's not historically accurate, so you're basically just guessing how many games he will miss based on pulling a random number out of the sky. That's fine if that's your approach, but that's not my style.

I would also expect him to get a different deal going forward, because he is highly paid for a safety. However, he didn't sign his current deal as a safety, so that's not really his problem.

I think you think I was the person you originally replied to.

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, RavenROC said:

I think you think I was the person you originally replied to.

Lol, no, I think about half or your post was the definition of revisionist history, hence why I said what I said.

[manofsteel]

I hope he is a better player and smarter than Jimi Smith.

[RavenROC]

15 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Lol, no, I think about half or your post was the definition of revisionist history, hence why I said what I said.

Lol, yes. You literally said:

" You can play the "well he's guaranteed to miss 4 games" card, but that's not historically accurate, so you're basically just guessing how many games he will miss based on pulling a random number out of the sky. That's fine if that's your approach, but that's not my style. "

 

That was in reference to a different person.

 

My post stated several facts about Webbs history, then predicted a future outcome. I didn't say one thing about the past that wasn't true.

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, RavenROC said:

Lol, yes. You literally said:

" You can play the "well he's guaranteed to miss 4 games" card, but that's not historically accurate, so you're basically just guessing how many games he will miss based on pulling a random number out of the sky. That's fine if that's your approach, but that's not my style. "

 

That was in reference to a different person.

 

My post stated several facts about Webbs history, then predicted a future outcome. I didn't say one thing about the past that wasn't true.

And so did I. I took the exact same facts that made Webb look like an unhealthy player who misses a lot of games and made those exact same facts show a guy who's largely healthy and doesn't miss much time overall by NFL standards, because, well, he doesn't.

Its called manipulating facts to make an argument. The public is great at creating narratives to fit whatever argument they want. Ravens fans would probably tell you that Ray Lewis was largely a "healthy" player throughout his career and that Webb has a house on IR, yet their career averages for games played per season are nearly identical.

What a wonderful world the internet is...

Edited March 8, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[RavenROC]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And so did I. I took the exact same facts that made Webb look like an unhealthy player who misses a lot of games and made those exact same facts show a guy who's largely healthy and doesn't miss much time overall by NFL standards, because, well, he doesn't.

Its called manipulating facts to make an argument. 

No. First you arbitrarily excluded 2012 to make a point about only missing 1 game on average other than that season. Sure, but while we're at it why don't we just exclude any season where he wasn't in all 16 and say hey, he has been 100% healthy other than those 5 years where he missed some games! What a warrior!

Second, you're generalizing his seasons played, inflating the total years by using the years he was a backup. 

Facts are that he's started all 16 games only ONCE in his seven year career, and he wasn't a true starter until year 3, so in 5 years as a starter he's missed about 20%. Not looking as good now is it?

Don't get me wrong, I love Webby, I wanted him here before he was even drafted, and I saw a starter in him from day one when he stood out as the only sure tackler in our secondary as a rookie. But he's also somewhere in the conversation of injury prone and pretending he's not is either stubbornness to the point of going down with the ship or just being a blind homer.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, RavenROC said:

No. First you arbitrarily excluded 2012 to make a point about only missing 1 game on average other than that season. Sure, but while we're at it why don't we just exclude any season where he wasn't in all 16 and say hey, he has been 100% healthy other than those 5 years where he missed some games! What a warrior!

Second, you're generalizing his seasons played, inflating the total years by using the years he was a backup. 

Facts are that he's started all 16 games only ONCE in his seven year career, and he wasn't a true starter until year 3, so in 5 years as a starter he's missed about 20%. Not looking as good now is it?

Don't get me wrong, I love Webby, I wanted him here before he was even drafted, and I saw a starter in him from day one when he stood out as the only sure tackler in our secondary as a rookie. But he's also somewhere in the conversation of injury prone and pretending he's not is either stubbornness to the point of going down with the ship or just being a blind homer.

But I don't care whether he was a "backup" or a "starter"... I care about whether he plays. Isn't that the goal... to actually play? There's non-starters on this team that play as many or more snaps than the "starter", which only matters on a depth chart that nobody looks at. I mean Elvis Dumervil isn't really a "starter" for the Ravens according to the depth chart for the last several seasons. 

The reason I made "arbitrarily" excluded 2012 was to show how one major injury that costs somebody most of a season can skew the perception of "injury prone" for a player. He's had two major knee issues, yet only one of them really cost him significant time on the football field. So why would I care about the other one if he's not actually missing games from it? 

I'm also one of the few people who actually looks at injuries by position, and have a good understand of what to expect as far as injuries based on what position they play. If you were to go back and look historically at corners, both on this team and league-wide, you'll see that guys like Webb, Jimmy, etc. are all in the same general range of playing time and games played as most other corners in this league from an industry standard. So either ALL of them are injury prone, or neither of them are.

I mean I get it... all fans think everybody should play every game all the time. For a QB, not a terribly unrealistic expectation, given how less likely they are to get hurt. For a secondary player or a RB, yeah, getting 13-14 games from them a year is considered pretty solid. That's part of the reason why teams are STILL so willing to invest large contracts in players who are missing 2-3 games a year.

[RavenROC]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

But I don't care whether he was a "backup" or a "starter"

The guys running the contracts do.

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Isn't that the goal... to actually play?

Yes, and as a starting DB for the Ravens he's missed about 20% of his expected playtime.

8 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

There's non-starters on this team that play as many or more snaps than the "starter"

There may be at rotational positions. Starting LCB or FS isn't one of those positions. And if someone does come in for Webb at LCB I'd expect he move to nickel (in previous seasons, which he did)

10 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

He's had two major knee issues, yet only one of them really cost him significant time on the football field. So why would I care about the other one if he's not actually missing games from it?

The very same reason players plummet down draft boards who have serious injuries in college.

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

That's part of the reason why teams are STILL so willing to invest large contracts in players who are missing 2-3 games a year.

I don't think there's a team out there that expect players to miss 20% of a season on average.

[rmcjacket23]

17 minutes ago, RavenROC said:

The guys running the contracts do.

Yes, and as a starting DB for the Ravens he's missed about 20% of his expected playtime.

There may be at rotational positions. Starting LCB or FS isn't one of those positions. And if someone does come in for Webb at LCB I'd expect he move to nickel (in previous seasons, which he did)

The very same reason players plummet down draft boards who have serious injuries in college.

I don't think there's a team out there that expect players to miss 20% of a season on average.

1. Not really. Watch FA. Their will be 7-8 figure AAV contracts given to defensive players who will be on the sideline (and expected to be) for 20-30% of their teams defensive snaps. Occurs every year... I'll point them out to you as they happen.

2. Yes, which is about industry standard for that position. Again, I'd strongly recommend you take a look around the league and do this research.

3. That would depend on the team and the player. In a nickel or a dime, there's more DBs. In a base 4-3 or 3-4, there's less. Its how a guy like Corey Graham, who wasn't a "starter", played similar snap counts to Webb when Webb was healthy and the "starter".

4. Yes, because they have those injuries in college. Without the crystal ball, its a bit difficult to predict knee injuries for players without a lengthy college history of said knee injuries.

5. Expect? No. Understand and don't jump off a cliff because they do? Yes. Hand out long term extensions with significant guaranteed money to players that do? Yes, annually.

[RavenROC]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Not really. Watch FA. Their will be 7-8 figure AAV contracts given to defensive players who will be on the sideline (and expected to be) for 20-30% of their teams defensive snaps. Occurs every year... I'll point them out to you as they happen.

We're not talking about players who take plays off, are rotated out, or otherwise are out of the formation. We're talking about suiting up.

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

2. Yes, which is about industry standard for that position. Again, I'd strongly recommend you take a look around the league and do this research.

Show me the stats on players who are paid similarly to Webb also missing 20% of their teams games and I'll believe it.

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

3. That would depend on the team and the player. In a nickel or a dime, there's more DBs. In a base 4-3 or 3-4, there's less. Its how a guy like Corey Graham, who wasn't a "starter", played similar snap counts to Webb when Webb was healthy and the "starter".

This is entirely false. They played together in 2012 and 2013. In those seasons Webb played roughly 80-90% of defensive snaps in games he was in. Graham played in 50-60%. In 2013 when they both suited up for all 16 games Graham saw 687 defensive snaps while Webb saw 972.

10 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

4. Yes, because they have those injuries in college. Without the crystal ball, its a bit difficult to predict knee injuries for players without a lengthy college history of said knee injuries.

I don't even understand what point you're trying to make. Players' injury histories are an important thing when projecting future contributions to the team and values in contracts.

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

5. Expect? No. Understand and don't jump off a cliff because they do? Yes. Hand out long term extensions with significant guaranteed money to players that do? Yes, annually.

The Ravens do. And it's unfortunate in cases like Webb and Pitta. They hand out far too much guaranteed money and roll the dice. Sometimes they win and sometimes they lose (Pitta). And we see the ramifications of it losing players like K.O.

[RavenROC]

Figures...