Sizzle's First Mock of the Offseason

[PurpleCity5]

3 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

Thing is, I don't think Jack is just an ILB. He's a LB, a safety, and in a pinch even a corner. He's similar to Troy Palumalu in his versatility and play making. Ozzie has always loved versatile guys.

I don't see Jack as a safety or a CB at all. I really don't. Safeties play plenty of deep coverage and I don't think Jack will be doing that at all, maybe he can attack the run as a safety but he won't be effective in coverage, unless he loses a lot of bulk I don't see him as a safety. As far as CB goes, I can see him in some snaps there, he's covered slot WRs pretty well but I don't think he can run with them at all, you don't see any linebackers do that for that matter on a consistent basis. He will be handling zone assignments at the slot but outside of that I don't see him as a CB either. 

This is not to say that I don't like Jack, I love his game but I don't see the big need here, even as a coverage linebacker, I still like a few more people who can fill in our needs. 

[RaineV1]

1 minute ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I don't see Jack as a safety or a CB at all. I really don't. Safeties play plenty of deep coverage and I don't think Jack will be doing that at all, maybe he can attack the run as a safety but he won't be effective in coverage, unless he loses a lot of bulk I don't see him as a safety. As far as CB goes, I can see him in some snaps there, he's covered slot WRs pretty well but I don't think he can run with them at all, you don't see any linebackers do that for that matter on a consistent basis. He will be handling zone assignments at the slot but outside of that I don't see him as a CB either. 

This is not to say that I don't like Jack, I love his game but I don't see the big need here, even as a coverage linebacker, I still like a few more people who can fill in our needs. 

The two bolded parts seem to contradict each other. Though as far as him running with receivers:
 

Quote

“There were points in the season when I wondered if I was having a slump. ‘Why aren’t I getting 15 tackles a game?’ I’d wonder. But that wasn’t my job. I was used like a DB a lot. In the USC game, I only had like two or three tackles. But I was manned up one-on-one on the island with [USC receiver] Nelson Agholor.”

Recalled Mora: “Going into that game, we knew we were going to put him on Nelson in man (coverage), but we were going to help him. After about the second series, Myles comes over to the sideline and says ‘Hey, help someone else. I got this guy.’”

For the record, Agholor is a potential first-round pick and finished with three catches for 24 yards.

http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/85965/new-position-same-myles-jack

One on one man coverage on Agholor, and he kept him to only three catches for 24 yards. That's pretty damn good, better than any of our DBs would have done.

[JoeyFlex5]

54 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

The two bolded parts seem to contradict each other. Though as far as him running with receivers:
 

http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/85965/new-position-same-myles-jack

One on one man coverage on Agholor, and he kept him to only three catches for 24 yards. That's pretty damn good, better than any of our DBs would have done.

and agholor, although he hasnt succeeded as a rookie, was by all means a pro caliber wr, everyone knew he was a 2nd rounder at worst, who ran the full route tree as well as anyone in the nation and had great athleticism and hands in a pro system. it was impressive to say the least. 

 

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I don't see Jack as a safety or a CB at all. I really don't. Safeties play plenty of deep coverage and I don't think Jack will be doing that at all, maybe he can attack the run as a safety but he won't be effective in coverage, unless he loses a lot of bulk I don't see him as a safety. As far as CB goes, I can see him in some snaps there, he's covered slot WRs pretty well but I don't think he can run with them at all, you don't see any linebackers do that for that matter on a consistent basis. He will be handling zone assignments at the slot but outside of that I don't see him as a CB either. 

This is not to say that I don't like Jack, I love his game but I don't see the big need here, even as a coverage linebacker, I still like a few more people who can fill in our needs. 

but he has covered pro wr's and shut them down, you are severely underrating him if you dont think he could flex out to slot cb for double digit snaps each week or play a full game as a coverage oriented SS. he wouldnt play SS as a run support guy, he as a linebacker is better in coverage than deone bucannon as a safety. youre really just underrating him, i understand though, i hated the idea of drafting an ILB so badly that i made every excuse to underrate and downplay his talent.

[Sizzlebshu]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Agreed. I don't think it was the reason that we went 5-11. I think Jack would make us a better team but not better than what we were in 2014. I think the biggest reason why our season went the way it did was because of the lack of play-makers in the secondary and offensive end. Now, while Jack could be a BPA pick, I think in this years draft we need to find an impact player at a position of NEED. I don't see ILB being the biggest need on the board. FWIW, I don't think Jack is that far ahead of Hargreaves, Stanley, or Buckner honestly, all of which could be need picks.

Still waiting to hear how pass rusher was the main cause of going 5-11 and not losing our franchise QB. 

[52520Andrew]

4 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Still waiting to hear how pass rusher was the main cause of going 5-11 and not losing our franchise QB. 

Or even CB as the middle of the field was getting beat just as often as outside. Lack of a good safety was a big problem as well. 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Still waiting to hear how pass rusher was the main cause of going 5-11 and not losing our franchise QB. 

in all fairness we were horrible before he went down, even though we were within 1 possession in all of our losses.. 

 

a healthy LT, jimmy smith playing like he did the 2nd half of the season, a safety who knew where to be, a pass rusher, a reliable wr, any combination of those things could have been the difference in the first half of the season. myles jack would not have saved the season, and i dont think a 16 game flacco wouldve saved the season either, we lost a lot of things that made our defense and our franchise qb overburdened. 

 

it was just a perfect storm of a horrible season, flacco going down was more like "i just hope hes fine by next year" and not "oh there goes our season" because the season was already down the drain

[gabefergy]

4 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

You think injury prone? 

Not necessarily.

 I just don't think he has shown much in coverage ability.

[JoeyFlex5]

isnt frazier a tampa 2 guy? i could be wrong but i seem to recall reading that...  

 

if so, with pees being a big time linebackers guy, jack would be a stud in the tampa 2 and could really help alleviate the safety dilemma

[gabefergy]

8 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Still waiting to hear how pass rusher was the main cause of going 5-11 and not losing our franchise QB. 

I do think is a big factor in the team's struggles. Losing Suggs had a major impact on the defense. 

[BmoreBird22]

 

9 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

in all fairness we were horrible before he went down, even though we were within 1 possession in all of our losses.. 

 

a healthy LT, jimmy smith playing like he did the 2nd half of the season, a safety who knew where to be, a pass rusher, a reliable wr, any combination of those things could have been the difference in the first half of the season. myles jack would not have saved the season, and i dont think a 16 game flacco wouldve saved the season either, we lost a lot of things that made our defense and our franchise qb overburdened. 

 

it was just a perfect storm of a horrible season, flacco going down was more like "i just hope hes fine by next year" and not "oh there goes our season" because the season was already down the drain

This about perfectly sums it up right here. Hit the nail right on the head.

[BmoreBird22]

7 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

isnt frazier a tampa 2 guy? i could be wrong but i seem to recall reading that...  

 

if so, with pees being a big time linebackers guy, jack would be a stud in the tampa 2 and could really help alleviate the safety dilemma

Frazier is a Tampa 2 guy and Pees ran the 4-3 in NE when he was there. 

I've said for some time that I think Jack could be an ideal fit in the Tampa 2 and that if the Ravens wanted to make the switch, this would be the year because you could get a player like Jack and then a corner like Fuller in rounds one and two and have two tailor made players. 

That is the only time I'd support taking Myles Jack.

[allblackraven]

7 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Frazier is a Tampa 2 guy and Pees ran the 4-3 in NE when he was there. 

I've said for some time that I think Jack could be an ideal fit in the Tampa 2 and that if the Ravens wanted to make the switch, this would be the year because you could get a player like Jack and then a corner like Fuller in rounds one and two and have two tailor made players. 

That is the only time I'd support taking Myles Jack.

I know at least 3 of us were discussing the possible switch to base 43 via PMs during the season. There are lot more college guys that fit 43 than 34, so our odds on hitting on quality guys would increase. Drawback would be that we'd need at least 2 offseasons to get everything we need. I still like the idea though.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, allblackraven said:

I know at least 3 of us were discussing the possible switch to base 43 via PMs during the season. There are lot more college guys that fit 43 than 34, so our odds on hitting on quality guys would increase. Drawback would be that we'd need at least 2 offseasons to get everything we need. I still like the idea though.

The defensive line would be set and they have an ideal 3T in Jernigan and they have a great MLB in Mosley. Jack would be a perfect WILL. If they brought back Smith, he's the perfect SAM and Brown actually fits in the 4-3. 

[GrimCoconut]

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The defensive line would be set and they have an ideal 3T in Jernigan and they have a great MLB in Mosley. Jack would be a perfect WILL. If they brought back Smith, he's the perfect SAM and Brown actually fits in the 4-3. 

Agreed. Davis could work behind Williams and Jernigan could play 3T. Urban could play end sometimes and behind Jernigan. I don't think we'd ever stop using 3-4 schemes since we like to mix it up, but we'd certainly make it work. We ran a lot of 4-3 sets last year. Furthermore, Mosley is an ideal MIKE and Suggs can play end. Za'Darius is actually best in the 4-3 when he was on the field last year from what I recall.

[JoeyFlex5]

19 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

 

This about perfectly sums it up right here. Hit the nail right on the head.

thats for last season though, 2016 is a new season and a new draft class and a new roster, and i think even though the immediate hole filled by a vh3 would make a big difference, filling our void next to mosley with a rare talent like myles jack would ultimately make the ravens a better team, both in 2016 and beyond. 

 

drafting either an edge rusher like a jonathan bullard or kyler fackrell, or a kyle fuller/eli apple if one if them are available in the 2nd, after taking jack, would really turn the defense around in a hurry. people forget that jimmy was still recovering from a very bad injury and he came on strong in the end, if he is playing like his late-2015 self then he makes a big difference. 

[allblackraven]

7 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The defensive line would be set and they have an ideal 3T in Jernigan and they have a great MLB in Mosley. Jack would be a perfect WILL. If they brought back Smith, he's the perfect SAM and Brown actually fits in the 4-3. 

 

1 minute ago, GrimCoconut said:

Agreed. Davis could work behind Williams and Jernigan could play 3T. Urban could play end sometimes and behind Jernigan. I don't think we'd ever stop using 3-4 schemes since we like to mix it up, but we'd certainly make it work. We ran a lot of 4-3 sets last year. Furthermore, Mosley is an ideal MIKE and Suggs can play end. Za'Darius is actually best in the 4-3 when he was on the field last year from what I recall.

I suppose we'd make it work in a pinch but I would like much better pass rushers at both ends than what we have now.

[ravefan52]

9 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I'd be happy with Myles Jack but I think he goes to Jacksonville. I think Dallas goes with Bosa, maybe Jack, possibly Buckner, or maybe Ezekiel Elliott, all of which make sense to me. I think Elliott is an underrated choice for them since he'll take pressure off Tony, help protect for him, can probably kill it behind the Dallas OL, while showing the ability to be a great receiving RB. He's the whole package. 

I think SD goes with Buckner, but I can see them take Bosa or Ramsey. 

I still think we'll end up with one of Ramsey or Bosa, but if both are gone for the sake of it and say Buckner and Hargreaves are there and Jack is gone I think we take Hargreaves. We like CB like him since he's a heavy, compact CB who can play physical. 

Rankins makes sense for the Giants but they could see value in other areas. Hankins is a beast for them. I can see Giants taking a CB and same goes for Philly. 

Another pick that surprised me is the Chiefs taking Dodd over Conklin. I think they'll look to improve their OL and their tackles especially. 

Hankins and Rankins right next to each other would get confusing.

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/85965/new-position-same-myles-jack

One on one man coverage on Agholor, and he kept him to only three catches for 24 yards. That's pretty damn good, better than any of our DBs would have done.

 

6 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

and agholor, although he hasnt succeeded as a rookie, was by all means a pro caliber wr, everyone knew he was a 2nd rounder at worst, who ran the full route tree as well as anyone in the nation and had great athleticism and hands in a pro system. it was impressive to say the least. 

So, I went ahead and watched that USC game over and really made a concerted effort to watch when he actually flexed out to cover Nelson Algholor and it's being well overblown. He was often covering tight ends in the flat or running backs out of the backfield. In most situations, if he was covering Algholor, it was in bunch formations because he was too strong to be moved and could blow up impending screens. 

It's entirely possible that the 8 minute cutup didn't cover every single defensive snap, but he was doing it far less than I think you all are making it out to be. 

[Sizzlebshu]

On 3/6/2016 at 4:18 PM, gabefergy said:

On 3/6/2016 at 4:18 PM, gabefergy said:

I do think is a big factor in the team's struggles. Losing Suggs had a major impact on the defense. 

 

[Sizzlebshu]

Thoughts on FA so far. 

Titans are all in on Tunsil given the Murray trade. They want to establish the run. So +1 for everyone who made this pick.

Eagles love Jordan Hicks I suppose. Corner becomes a bigger need, but Nolan Carroll likely returns now. Don't think this changes the draft outlook much. 

Dolphins, depending on the comp, may have gotten a steal. Maxwell is a no strings attached get for the Dolphins (they aren't responsible for the guarantees). Alonso wasn''t healthy last year so if he can get healthy, it could be a boost to their defense. Offensive line moves up the priority chart.  

 

Edited March 8, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[PurpleCity5]

On 3/6/2016 at 4:09 PM, Sizzlebshu said:

Still waiting to hear how pass rusher was the main cause of going 5-11 and not losing our franchise QB. 

We were 3-7 or something like that when Joe was our starter at QB. Even though he went down we were still a bad team regardless. As far as how the pass rush was not the main cause, I'm pretty confident that it was, along with CB the biggest reason with how our season went. Yeah, losing Joe sucked, but the season was did in by then, and it was evident that pass rush and cornerback was the problem during that time. I mean, look at the games against Cleveland early on the year, we were blitzing and still couldn't get pressure. Against a horrid Seattle Seahawks offensive line we allowed Russell Wilson all the time he needed. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[PurpleCity5]

On 3/6/2016 at 3:48 PM, JoeyFlex5 said:

and agholor, although he hasnt succeeded as a rookie, was by all means a pro caliber wr, everyone knew he was a 2nd rounder at worst, who ran the full route tree as well as anyone in the nation and had great athleticism and hands in a pro system. it was impressive to say the least. 

 

but he has covered pro wr's and shut them down, you are severely underrating him if you dont think he could flex out to slot cb for double digit snaps each week or play a full game as a coverage oriented SS. he wouldnt play SS as a run support guy, he as a linebacker is better in coverage than deone bucannon as a safety. youre really just underrating him, i understand though, i hated the idea of drafting an ILB so badly that i made every excuse to underrate and downplay his talent.

I can respect that, but against slot WRs, you're talking about some of the fastest and best route runners in the league. Jack is a good 245 I believe? He moves extremely well for that size but at SS he will be tasked with covering burners like Travis Benjamin who flew past Will Hill last time we played Cleveland. I'm not saying he won't be able to do it but I'm just very skeptical about it.

 

[Sizzlebshu]

2 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

We were 3-7 or something like that when Joe was our starter at QB. Even though he went down we were still a bad team regardless. As far as how the pass rush was not the main cause, I'm pretty confident that it was, along with CB the biggest reason with how our season went. Yeah, losing Joe sucked, but the season was did in by then, and it was evident that pass rush and cornerback was the problem during that time. I mean, look at the games against Cleveland early on the year, we were blitzing and still couldn't get pressure. Against a horrid Seattle Seahawks offensive line we allowed Russell Wilson all the time he needed. 

Yea gee, I wonder how many pts the offense actually scored in those games? It's not like the offense was doing particularly well either (couldn't run the ball, couldn't throw the ball deep)

Edited March 9, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[Sizzlebshu]

2 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

We were 3-7 or something like that when Joe was our starter at QB. Even though he went down we were still a bad team regardless. As far as how the pass rush was not the main cause, I'm pretty confident that it was, along with CB the biggest reason with how our season went. Yeah, losing Joe sucked, but the season was did in by then, and it was evident that pass rush and cornerback was the problem during that time. I mean, look at the games against Cleveland early on the year, we were blitzing and still couldn't get pressure. Against a horrid Seattle Seahawks offensive line we allowed Russell Wilson all the time he needed. 

It's not like we held onto the ball for more than 1 minute at a time vs the Hawks. Offense sputtered hard. 

To be fair, we weren't getting much offensive production even with Joe. 

[Sizzlebshu]

Eagles just ripped the dolphins. No surprise there. I wonder how that affects their draft plans

[Clmraven]

On March 6, 2016 at 4:26 PM, BmoreBird22 said:

Frazier is a Tampa 2 guy and Pees ran the 4-3 in NE when he was there. 

I've said for some time that I think Jack could be an ideal fit in the Tampa 2 and that if the Ravens wanted to make the switch, this would be the year because you could get a player like Jack and then a corner like Fuller in rounds one and two and have two tailor made players. 

That is the only time I'd support taking Myles Jack.

Jack and Fuller would be beasts in a Tampa 2 defense, and the whole philosophy of that defense is speed and ball hawking, it would really help our turnovers I think, but anyone who hates the bend not break mentality would still hate the Tampa 2 because that's another philosophy that started with Kiffin when he created the Tampa 2.

[Winchester]

Bosa Bosa Bosa BOSA!! Then trade up for s Coleman,Conklin or Ifedi.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Winchester

[KBoum]

I like Ifedi. I think Spriggs helped his stock a LOT with the Combine but he got destroyed in 1 on 1 drills against high caliber player. He didn't face a lot of great pass rushers this season let's face it. He's more of a project right now but ceilings are there

 

Edit : I made a mistake for some reason lol it was Dahl who struggled. Spriggs was the best O-line at the senior bowl. too many hours invested lastely I gottas sleep

Edited March 13, 2016 by KBoum

[Mt. Crushmore]

On March 6, 2016 at 7:59 PM, ravefan52 said:

Hankins and Rankins right next to each other would get confusing.

Thankfully the Giants saved us from that by signing Harrison in FA

[BmoreBird22]

On Tuesday, March 08, 2016 at 7:10 PM, PurpleCity5 said:

I can respect that, but against slot WRs, you're talking about some of the fastest and best route runners in the league. Jack is a good 245 I believe? He moves extremely well for that size but at SS he will be tasked with covering burners like Travis Benjamin who flew past Will Hill last time we played Cleveland. I'm not saying he won't be able to do it but I'm just very skeptical about it.

The play you're referring to was a Cover 4 that Cleveland somehow used the perfect play against. Webb's job is to carry the vertical down the field, which he did. Hill's job is to carry the post of Benjamin cuts in or come downhill on the crossing pattern if no deep threat is present in his zone. 

Barnidge happened to have like 25 yards to work with on his crossed and Hill came down on it. Benjamin then saw this and broke off his route. Just perfect play and execution to beat the Cover 4.

However, I still don't think he could cover the slot full time or carry a receiver down the vertical. He's athletic, but let's not get carried away.