Who should we take at #6? The new and improved version

[Jaybirds]

4 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I feel that were picking in the 2nd tier at that point. Tunsil, jack, ramsey, and bosa are top tier to me, I love vh3 and buckner but I just feel like the gap between the 5th pick and 6th pick in that particular scenario feels more like a 5 spot difference than 1 spot.

Wow.  Okay.  I honestly thought you had Buckner as a top tier guy.  Didn't think he had a bigger proponent here than you.  So I guess I'm just surprised to hear it coming from you. 

I can see he's more risk/reward than those top tier guys.  But the ceiling is as high.  I think he's still excellent value at #6.  That would give us a very exciting DL for the next few years. 

[ellicottraven]

With the free agency shaking out over the next several days, it seems to me that if the Browns end up passing on a QB at #2 (Unlikely but possible), then both QBs have the potential to go right after we pick at #7 and #8 to SF and Philly. So, in my mind, it is very likely that the Ravens will find a trade partner (Rams maybe) to trade back because I see 5 elite players on the Ravens board and all 5 may be gone by the time we pick. Tunsil, Ramsey, Buckner, Bosa and Jack are the top 5 on our board in my opinion and none of those may be available.

[Jaybirds]

6 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

With the free agency shaking out over the next several days, it seems to me that if the Browns end up passing on a QB at #2 (Unlikely but possible), then both QBs have the potential to go right after we pick at #7 and #8 to SF and Philly. So, in my mind, it is very likely that the Ravens will find a trade partner (Rams maybe) to trade back because I see 5 elite players on the Ravens board and all 5 may be gone by the time we pick. Tunsil, Ramsey, Buckner, Bosa and Jack are the top 5 on our board in my opinion and none of those may be available.

I'm not sure SF and Philly are in the QB market anymore.  Kaepernick is still in San Francisco (maybe that's waiting to see what Fitzpatrick does?), and the Eagles re-signed Bradford.  The Rams put a first round tender on Keenum, claiming he's their starting QB.   That could be smoke, but by draft day the QB market could be dried up. 

Denver, on the other hand, is probably calling everyone this morning. 

[ellicottraven]

52 minutes ago, Jaybirds said:

I'm not sure SF and Philly are in the QB market anymore.  Kaepernick is still in San Francisco (maybe that's waiting to see what Fitzpatrick does?), and the Eagles re-signed Bradford.  The Rams put a first round tender on Keenum, claiming he's their starting QB.   That could be smoke, but by draft day the QB market could be dried up. 

Denver, on the other hand, is probably calling everyone this morning. 

It's been reported that Kaepernik may have interest from Denver. He wants to be traded and he's made no bones about it. It is perceivable that SF has played him up recently as somebody they want to keep to boost his trade value too. So, if Denver makes a play for him, he likely goes to Denver leaving SF with just Blaine Gabbert. Also, Trent Baalke and Horse Elway are reportedly friends. As for Philly, they only signed Bradford to a 2 yr deal. It was almost a prove it type of deal. So, it makes sense for them to grab 1 of 2 top QBs to learn behind Bradford for a year or two.

[ALI624]

4 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

It's been reported that Kaepernik may have interest from Denver. He wants to be traded and he's made no bones about it. It is perceivable that SF has played him up recently as somebody they want to keep to boost his trade value too. So, if Denver makes a play for him, he likely goes to Denver leaving SF with just Blaine Gabbert. Also, Trent Baalke and Horse Elway are reportedly friends. As for Philly, they only signed Bradford to a 2 yr deal. It was almost a prove it type of deal. So, it makes sense for them to grab 1 of 2 top QBs to learn behind Bradford for a year or two.

Philly also signed Chase Daniel to a 3 year deal.

Edited March 10, 2016 by ALI624

[Jaybirds]

23 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

It's been reported that Kaepernik may have interest from Denver. He wants to be traded and he's made no bones about it. It is perceivable that SF has played him up recently as somebody they want to keep to boost his trade value too. So, if Denver makes a play for him, he likely goes to Denver leaving SF with just Blaine Gabbert. Also, Trent Baalke and Horse Elway are reportedly friends. As for Philly, they only signed Bradford to a 2 yr deal. It was almost a prove it type of deal. So, it makes sense for them to grab 1 of 2 top QBs to learn behind Bradford for a year or two.

Is Kaepernick really the guy to run that offense?  I just don't see Elway respecting Kaep's skill set.  Doesn't seem a fit for Kubiak's system either.  I could be wrong.  I just don't understand it. 

I agree it's a Prove It deal for Bradford.  But I don't think they spend extra picks to move up this year.  Next year, maybe.  But if Bradford does prove it then they kinda wasted their draft.  If they've got two extra years to develop someone, I don't think they have to take any of the top 3 guys this year. 

[trevorsteadman]

1 minute ago, Jaybirds said:

Is Kaepernick really the guy to run that offense?  I just don't see Elway respecting Kaep's skill set.  Doesn't seem a fit for Kubiak's system either.  I could be wrong.  I just don't understand it. 

I agree it's a Prove It deal for Bradford.  But I don't think they spend extra picks to move up this year.  Next year, maybe.  But if Bradford does prove it then they kinda wasted their draft.  If they've got two extra years to develop someone, I don't think they have to take any of the top 3 guys this year. 

If I were the Broncos I would go after Fitzpatrick who I guess is reportedly way off on contract talks with the Jets. 

[Jaybirds]

Just now, trevorsteadman said:

If I were the Broncos I would go after Fitzpatrick who I guess is reportedly way off on contract talks with the Jets. 

That's exactly what I was thinking. 

 

[ALPHA]

The Browns need to take Wentz, but they have such a lack of talent that they're looking down the barrel of multiple losing seasons regardless, Wentz could be damaged goods within 1-2 years. Alternatively they could just build a BPA team from scratch and wait for the right opportunity to present itself at QB.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Jaybirds said:

Wow.  Okay.  I honestly thought you had Buckner as a top tier guy.  Didn't think he had a bigger proponent here than you.  So I guess I'm just surprised to hear it coming from you. 

I can see he's more risk/reward than those top tier guys.  But the ceiling is as high.  I think he's still excellent value at #6.  That would give us a very exciting DL for the next few years. 

I was at one point but I am just a little more about either pass rush or coverage now. Plus I've watched a lot more on buckner and I've come to the conclusion that while her a very good prospect i dont think he's quite what I hyped him up to be. He anchors against doubles but doesn't blow them up like I originally though he did and his interior pressure mostly comes from 1v1 against the tackle and taking the inside lane, so it technically is interior pressure but not what I made it out to be. Would still love him here but I think we'll be fine in the trenches without him, vh3 Would have a bigger impact and is of the same talent level

[Jacquouille]

4 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I was at one point but I am just a little more about either pass rush or coverage now. Plus I've watched a lot more on buckner and I've come to the conclusion that while her a very good prospect i dont think he's quite what I hyped him up to be. He anchors against doubles but doesn't blow them up like I originally though he did and his interior pressure mostly comes from 1v1 against the tackle and taking the inside lane, so it technically is interior pressure but not what I made it out to be. Would still love him here but I think we'll be fine in the trenches without him, vh3 Would have a bigger impact and is of the same talent level

With Williams and Jernigan, our OLBs and maybe CJ blitzing from times to times that would create lots of 1v1 opportunities

[L.A.Ravens]

Diff Myles Jack at pick 6. 

[Jaybirds]

7 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I was at one point but I am just a little more about either pass rush or coverage now. Plus I've watched a lot more on buckner and I've come to the conclusion that while her a very good prospect i dont think he's quite what I hyped him up to be. He anchors against doubles but doesn't blow them up like I originally though he did and his interior pressure mostly comes from 1v1 against the tackle and taking the inside lane, so it technically is interior pressure but not what I made it out to be. Would still love him here but I think we'll be fine in the trenches without him, vh3 Would have a bigger impact and is of the same talent level

Okay, cool.  I have no problem with people changing their opinions based on new/more information.  I just missed the memo. 

If we're not counting him as a pass rusher, then I don't see one being there for us at 6.  There's too many ways for Bosa to go before then, and I'm not quite sure Lawson is worth the pick.  I think VH3 is becoming the default choice based on need, talent, and availability. 

[JoeyFlex5]

2 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

With Williams and Jernigan, our OLBs and maybe CJ blitzing from times to times that would create lots of 1v1 opportunities

This is true but I'm not sure our OLBs bring enough to the table to make us think we need to draft high to create opportunities for them. Again I'd be happy with buckner I just think I'd prefer vh3.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, Jaybirds said:

Okay, cool.  I have no problem with people changing their opinions based on new/more information.  I just missed the memo. 

If we're not counting him as a pass rusher, then I don't see one being there for us at 6.  There's too many ways for Bosa to go before then, and I'm not quite sure Lawson is worth the pick.  I think VH3 is becoming the default choice based on need, talent, and availability. 

Availability being the key word there lol.

[Jaybirds]

1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Availability being the key word there lol.

Yup. 

But honestly there's only a few guys who seem ready to start right now (the "instant coffee" quote).  And there's only a few positions where a rookie could win the starting spot for us.  And Hargreaves fits both of those for me.  So also talent and need.  But mostly availability. 

[Drew P]

56 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

The Browns need to take Wentz, but they have such a lack of talent that they're looking down the barrel of multiple losing seasons regardless, Wentz could be damaged goods within 1-2 years. Alternatively they could just build a BPA team from scratch and wait for the right opportunity to present itself at QB.

They're making a play for Kap. If they land him then they probably grab Ramsey.

[Jacquouille]

54 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

This is true but I'm not sure our OLBs bring enough to the table to make us think we need to draft high to create opportunities for them. Again I'd be happy with buckner I just think I'd prefer vh3.

You think VH3 can turn our defense around? I think I'd prefer Lawson over him.

I'd be content to pass on Buck if we land Washington later. But really, Buckner, Jernigan and Williams would be a non stop chaos and a pocket anihilator.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, Jacquouille said:

You think VH3 can turn our defense around? I think I'd prefer Lawson over him.

I'd be content to pass on Buck if we land Washington later. But really, Buckner, Jernigan and Williams would be a non stop chaos and a pocket anihilator.

I'll take vh3 over Shaq by a slim margin. I like shaq a lot as a 34 OLB, but I do think vh3 is a day 1 starter and perfect for the defense because he really is the prototype for both pees and Frazier and he appears to be a top flight locker room presence and plays with lots of fire. 

 

He also is the best bet in the whole draft to increase turnovers.

[Prino61]

7 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'll take vh3 over Shaq by a slim margin. I like shaq a lot as a 34 OLB, but I do think vh3 is a day 1 starter and perfect for the defense because he really is the prototype for both pees and Frazier and he appears to be a top flight locker room presence and plays with lots of fire. 

 

He also is the best bet in the whole draft to increase turnovers.

I'm also a big fan of taking VH3, He will be the best corner in this draft and with J.Smith and S.Wright they will produce a few cover sacks

[ALPHA]

1 hour ago, Drew P said:

They're making a play for Kap. If they land him then they probably grab Ramsey.

Well if theyre going to burn a second rounder, it might as well be on another bad QB

[Sizzlebshu]

2 hours ago, Prino61 said:

I'm also a big fan of taking VH3, He will be the best corner in this draft and with J.Smith and S.Wright they will produce a few cover sacks

To be fair, he isn't a great prospect and really doesn't fit the prototype for many teams. 

Sub 6ft

Short arms (30.5) 

Doesn't have a lot of long speed. 

 

Kinda fits the SD model for corners imo. No chance he goes there, but still. 

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[JoeyFlex5]

51 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

To be fair, he isn't a great prospect and really doesn't fit the prototype for many teams. 

Sub 6ft

Short arms (30.5) 

Doesn't have a lot of long speed. 

 

Kinda fits the SD model for corners imo. No chance he goes there, but still. 

 

height for corners is very overrated. you dont wanna field a 5'8" guy obviously but most of the best corners are between 5'10" and 6'0", that long lankiness tends to really sap a players short area quickness which is far more important for a cb. a 6' plus cb who can consistently stay in a route runners back pocket is rare and these guys are typically freak athletes, and even the best ones who CAN do it still cant swivel and shift and turn their hips and stop and explode at will as well as the 5'10" guys. 

 

however i get what youre saying, his upper 4.4-flat4.5 speed showed up in college and possibly will show up in the pros too, but with pro coaching i think he can eliminate it, he is a very smart kid and the reason that speed isnt overly concerning for me is because he can almost run full speed with his hips turned and facing the ball and he can get extremely airborne from any body position. he is just an impressive enough skilled cb to make me completely disregard his 40 time and slightly less than ideal arm length

[Dewy101]

6 hours ago, Drew P said:

They're making a play for Kap. If they land him then they probably grab Ramsey.

If the niners were smart they would ask the Browns to swap first round picks for Kaepernick since so many teams are after him. The niners take Wentz 2nd overall

[Winchester]

If Jack or Bosa is not there I would prefer a trade down and pick up an extra round2. Ravens have to many holes and it looks as if not many are going to get filled in free agency. Looks like there will be 4 minor signings on par with Arrington Lewis and Schaub but it looks as if no real better than average starters in free agency willbe signed by the ravens which means lot of needs Come draft day. I do not get the ravens. Do the boys in the office just like to sign players?? It seems happy signing 4 role players that will make no difference on game day than to actually plug a hole and say we do not have to worry about that position come draft weekend. So even if Jack or Bosa is available as well as Goff the ravens could get an attractive trade down offer. In which case Nkemdiche is a real game changing talent mid round1. Followed by a left tackle,receiver and Deion Jones.

[Boddiebroadus]

If the Broncos cut Ryan Clady anyone think he be worth looking at. Was a fantastic LT but injuries have sidelined him for a few seasons. He's 30 now. But when healthy he's dominate. No way both him and Monroe can be injured the entire season? That way we wouldn't have to pick Stanley at 6. I'm super bias cause I went to high school with the dude.

[Winchester]

Monroe is a scrub. Clady is a stud if he can play!! Terrific idea if he checks out injury free. Clady is top of the line from an athletic perspective. He can lose a half step and continue to be an elite left tackle. If he is Injury free and works hard to get back to his best play shape he would be a steal for the ravens. When injury free he and long were right there with Joe Thomas if not better.Clady is actually a better athlete.

[Sizzlebshu]

8 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

height for corners is very overrated. you dont wanna field a 5'8" guy obviously but most of the best corners are between 5'10" and 6'0", that long lankiness tends to really sap a players short area quickness which is far more important for a cb. a 6' plus cb who can consistently stay in a route runners back pocket is rare and these guys are typically freak athletes, and even the best ones who CAN do it still cant swivel and shift and turn their hips and stop and explode at will as well as the 5'10" guys. 

 

however i get what youre saying, his upper 4.4-flat4.5 speed showed up in college and possibly will show up in the pros too, but with pro coaching i think he can eliminate it, he is a very smart kid and the reason that speed isnt overly concerning for me is because he can almost run full speed with his hips turned and facing the ball and he can get extremely airborne from any body position. he is just an impressive enough skilled cb to make me completely disregard his 40 time and slightly less than ideal arm length

The issue I am pointing out is that many teams won't take him because he doesn't fit their prototype of a successful corner. Sean Smith is no shut down god tier corner, but he gets paid and treated like one because of his size and length. I even addressed this in my mock when I hesitantly gave him to Jax who I had taking him out of desperation more than anything else. 

[Sizzlebshu]

24 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Monroe is a scrub. Clady is a stud if he can play!! Terrific idea if he checks out injury free. Clady is top of the line from an athletic perspective. He can lose a half step and continue to be an elite left tackle. If he is Injury free and works hard to get back to his best play shape he would be a steal for the ravens. When injury free he and long were right there with Joe Thomas if not better.Clady is actually a better athlete.

I negged this. Monroe isn't a scrub. He is injury prone. There is a difference. He actually can play well when he's on the field. 

[JO_75]

13 hours ago, Drew P said:

They're making a play for Kap. If they land him then they probably grab Ramsey.

I think we were already screwed with Dallas and SD sitting in front of us. Jacksonville is out of the Buckner/Bosa mix since they just added Jackson and have Fowler coming back. If Cleveland acquires Kaepernick or some other QB, then Bosa without a doubt will go to Cleveland. Browns will see it as a way to boost ticket sales drafting the local guy and he would be BPA. Then SD would take Buckner meaning we miss out on both. In this scenario:

- Titans take Tunsil

- Browns take Bosa

- Chargers take Buckner

- Cowboys take Ramsey

- Jaguars take Jack

Leaving us potentially with 2 options.... Stay at 6 and take Leonard Floyd. Second option in this case would be to trade down for Noah Spence while acquiring more picks. So we need Denver or the Jets to acquire Colin otherwise we lose Bosa and Buckner instead of having the option of at least 1 if Wentz went second overall.