Who should we take at #6? The new and improved version

[BmoreBird22]

31 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

I wouldn't say the Rams are a bad team or at least not last year. They are a 10 win team at least with good QB play. 

That offensive line was still way too bad for me to feel comfortable putting confidence in them.

[52520Andrew]

7 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

That offensive line was still way too bad for me to feel comfortable putting confidence in them.

That defense was very good though and Gurley would ease the load on the offense. They managed to get 7 wins last year with some pretty bad QB play although I think the O-line is the biggest thing holding them back as well. I will say the O-line was better this past year than the year before though and a good QB could have gotten them to that 10 win mark. 

[DomMcRaven]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I always see people say "X player is dominate" when they should say dominant, and it always irks me... 

 

And now I just saw the exact vice versa of that mispronunciation... And I am annoyed lol

Same. It gets so tiring trying to correct people. 

[Jacquouille]

I'm starting to wonder who I prefer between VHIII and Bosa... 

[trevorsteadman]

18 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

I'm starting to wonder who I prefer between VHIII and Bosa... 

I think I would choose Bosa. VH3 is great and I think highly of him to play safety or cornerback in the NFL, but Bosa to me I think will produce pressure in the NFL. If we drafted VH3 it would be like us already having Webb and Arrington just more athletic and a higher ceiling. I think VH3 would be great on our defense and I would be happy with him as our pick, but I am leaning towards Bosa because he reminds me a lot of Terrell Suggs. I think he would be great at rushing the passer and could fill the Upshaw role immediately. Him learning under Suggs and Dumervil for at least a year would benefit him tremendously. 

[GrimCoconut]

5 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

I'm starting to wonder who I prefer between VHIII and Bosa... 

It's tough. Pass rush can certainly make a larger impact than a CB, and this pass rusher class is weak and we have a massive need to replace Suggs and Dumervil; although Bosa has questions regarding his fit and ability to play 3-4 OLB and his pass rushing skills due to OSU sliding him inside against the RG and him often going against the RT and not the LT. 

This CB class is stacked imo and we could probably find a guy who could be as good or better than Hargreaves with our second or maybe third. 

That said, Hargreaves would certainly be a great pick since he could upgrade Arrington and allow us to cover those pesky slot CB. He's also great insurance if Jimmy, Will Davis, or Wright get hurt or struggle so we won't get caught with our pants down anymore. It's also true that sometimes you don't gamble on getting a guy later who may be better than one of the top CB in the draft. 

It's certainly a struggle for me.

[thieverycorporation]

4 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

It's tough. Pass rush can certainly make a larger impact than a CB, and this pass rusher class is weak and we have a massive need to replace Suggs and Dumervil; although Bosa has questions regarding his fit and ability to play 3-4 OLB and his pass rushing skills due to OSU sliding him inside against the RG and him often going against the RT and not the LT. 

This CB class is stacked imo and we could probably find a guy who could be as good or better than Hargreaves with our second or maybe third. 

That said, Hargreaves would certainly be a great pick since he could upgrade Arrington and allow us to cover those pesky slot CB. He's also great insurance if Jimmy, Will Davis, or Wright get hurt or struggle so we won't get caught with our pants down anymore. It's also true that sometimes you don't gamble on getting a guy later who may be better than one of the top CB in the draft. 

It's certainly a struggle for me.

It isn't for me because Hargreaves is clearly a playmaker that offers great turnover abilities and even if primarily used in the slot would be an upgrade. I'd take him at 8 after moving with the Eagles as my trade partner. I'd take a second and a third/ fourth as comp.

[JoeyFlex5]

If bosa is there I think we have to take him over vh3. He can be extremely disruptive in multiple spots. I love him as a DE for us, I think lining him up in the T/G gap with one of our OLBs on the tackles outside shoulder would be devastating and would also prevent a triple team against whoever is lined up at nose. If jernigan and bosa are both in that gap then it pretty much leaves single matchups across the board if we rush all 5. Dumersizzle are both singled up with their tackles and those tackles have to play on their heels with bosa and jernigan to their inside shoulder, the guards primary job would be to contain the inside rush from bosa and jernigan but thays a tall task in itself, and this also leaves the guards outside shoulder vulnerable and bosa and jernigan can both exploit that with great effectiveness, having all 3 interior OL committed to containing the inside rush plays to our advantage in this case because Williams can push 2 guys into the pocket with ease and it forces the qb to favor the outside of the pocket which is right where jernigan and bosa would be closing in, dropping deep would allow an easy bend for the edge rushers and stepping up isn't an option because of the push up the middle. 

 

it would give qbs and ocs nightmares.

[ellicottraven]

7 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

If bosa is there I think we have to take him over vh3. He can be extremely disruptive in multiple spots. I love him as a DE for us, I think lining him up in the T/G gap with one of our OLBs on the tackles outside shoulder would be devastating and would also prevent a triple team against whoever is lined up at nose. If jernigan and bosa are both in that gap then it pretty much leaves single matchups across the board if we rush all 5. Dumersizzle are both singled up with their tackles and those tackles have to play on their heels with bosa and jernigan to their inside shoulder, the guards primary job would be to contain the inside rush from bosa and jernigan but thays a tall task in itself, and this also leaves the guards outside shoulder vulnerable and bosa and jernigan can both exploit that with great effectiveness, having all 3 interior OL committed to containing the inside rush plays to our advantage in this case because Williams can push 2 guys into the pocket with ease and it forces the qb to favor the outside of the pocket which is right where jernigan and bosa would be closing in, dropping deep would allow an easy bend for the edge rushers and stepping up isn't an option because of the push up the middle. 

 

it would give qbs and ocs nightmares.

If what you state happens, won't it happen more effectively with Buckner instead of Bosa? Not saying it is but wondering if it is...

[JoeyFlex5]

3 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

If what you state happens, won't it happen more effectively with Buckner instead of Bosa? Not saying it is but wondering if it is...

Nope. Buckner plays too high to consistently generate push against NFL guards I think. Bosa is stronger, leans better, is lighter on his feet, and is all around a better pass rusher.

[GrimCoconut]

3 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

If what you state happens, won't it happen more effectively with Buckner instead of Bosa? Not saying it is but wondering if it is...

Buckner isn't as versatile as Bosa. I think Buckner would be a great fit but I like him best against the OT. He's a better run defender than pass rusher but he offers pass rush. Bosa can play 3-4 OLB, DE in either front, and the 3T

[thieverycorporation]

24 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

If what you state happens, won't it happen more effectively with Buckner instead of Bosa? Not saying it is but wondering if it is...

Buckner looks to be a player that can be stifled in crowd. His length could a great benefit or a curse. I also see greater injury potential with that being said. 

[JoeyFlex5]

I also love bosa in the 9wide. Give that man a 2 step running start and let him ram into the tackles chest. He's gonna bowl right over OTs like a fullback

[Jacquouille]

22 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I also love bosa in the 9wide. Give that man a 2 step running start and let him ram into the tackles chest. He's gonna bowl right over OTs like a fullback

His hands swat seems also very nice, which benefits from the "2 step" imo. Also that's Sizzle's go to move so.....

[JoeyFlex5]

15 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

His hands swat seems also very nice, which benefits from the "2 step" imo. Also that's Sizzle's go to move so.....

Swat, swim, and especially his rip. His rip move might literally kill someone on the field one day lmao

[Jacquouille]

44 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Swat, swim, and especially his rip. His rip move might literally kill someone on the field one day lmao

But are those moves that are made more efficient by the "2 steps"? To me the hands swat move is much more efficient when you're built momentum and the T doesn't know how to stop you. I'm wondering if it's also the case for the rip and the swim 

[Dewy101]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Nope. Buckner plays too high to consistently generate push against NFL guards I think. Bosa is stronger, leans better, is lighter on his feet, and is all around a better pass rusher.

I guess Joshua Garnett isn't an NFL guard then. Maybe Conklin isn't  a tackle either since Buckner beat him couple of times inside. The only things that were a concern for Buckner in college was lack of quickness and his his lack of ability to take on double teams, which I won't be concerned with in our system. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Dewy101

[JoeyFlex5]

4 minutes ago, Dewy101 said:

I guess Joshua Garnett isn't an NFL guard then. Maybe Conklin isn't  a tackle either since Buckner beat him couple of times inside. The only things that were a concern for Buckner in college was lack of quickness and his his lack of ability to take on double teams, which I won't be concerned with in our system. 

Have you seen the tape? What happens when buckner doesn't keep his pads low(which is something he does often)? He gets stood up and is left handfighting and getting no push. 

 

A lack of quickness isn't a concern for him, he's very quick for his size, you can't expect a man that big to be really any quicker than Buckner is, not sure where you're getting that from. His main concern absolutely is his pad level and lack of leverage, and the tape shows it.

[Jacquouille]

The lack of leverage is an issue I see being brought up for nearly every D-lineman prospect I read about. I'm pretty sure that can be coached at the next level.

[Raven504]

What about trading back and taking Shaq Lawson? I think he is a very complete pass rusher and would be a great player for us. 

[sflegend89]

This is the worst part of the offseason. All the FA's have signed, we've already discussed the draft to death.... now we play the waiting game. I'm so ready to see who becomes a Raven.

Edited April 4, 2016 by sflegend89

[JoeyFlex5]

46 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

The lack of leverage is an issue I see being brought up for nearly every D-lineman prospect I read about. I'm pretty sure that can be coached at the next level.

Nah. Bosa doesn't have this problem, he leans very well. Vernon butler, rankins, billings, reed, dodd, and lawson all have good pad level and leverage. Buckner and ogbah are the 2 that really come to mind having leverage problems, a'shawn Robinson has a tendency to stand up high at times too. For guys in the 6'2" to 6'4" range leverage can be coached a bit, but at 6'7" it's really hard to expect that to change. If these guys lean hard enough then they fall over, some are capable of it and some just aren't. That's why I think a big and long guy with great lean is special because it's so rare

[flynismo]

57 minutes ago, Raven504 said:

What about trading back and taking Shaq Lawson? I think he is a very complete pass rusher and would be a great player for us. 

That's a very likely scenario if the first five picks are not the way we want it to go

[Gordo52]

I prefer Bosa to Buckner but part of me really wants to see Buckner & Williams next to eachother. That's an intimidating combo of size right there.

 

Also prefer Bosa to VH3 but it's definitely close. Could make great arguments for both and would be happy with both. I just give the edge to pass rushers vs cover men. 

 

Would be happy trading back for Shaq if he were guaranteed to fall to us.

[Raven504]

23 minutes ago, flynismo said:

That's a very likely scenario if the first five picks are not the way we want it to go

Yea, I hope we can trade back (depending on who falls to us) and snag Lawson I think he is going to be a great player 

[Cillmatic]

How come no ones mentioned tradin UP? I read an interesting idea in which the Titans pass on Tunsil and the Ravens trade up to #3 to get him.

[Jacquouille]

6 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

How come no ones mentioned tradin UP? I read an interesting idea in which the Titans pass on Tunsil and the Ravens trade up to #3 to get him.

There's a subject about this

[beanfigger]

8 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

How come no ones mentioned tradin UP? I read an interesting idea in which the Titans pass on Tunsil and the Ravens trade up to #3 to get him.

There's a whole other thread devoted to this. I think it would be awesome, but very unlikely.

[Jacquouille]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Nah. Bosa doesn't have this problem, he leans very well. Vernon butler, rankins, billings, reed, dodd, and lawson all have good pad level and leverage. Buckner and ogbah are the 2 that really come to mind having leverage problems, a'shawn Robinson has a tendency to stand up high at times too. For guys in the 6'2" to 6'4" range leverage can be coached a bit, but at 6'7" it's really hard to expect that to change. If these guys lean hard enough then they fall over, some are capable of it and some just aren't. That's why I think a big and long guy with great lean is special because it's so rare

But at the same time, when you're 6'7'', you have arms and hands as big as Buckner's, not even talking about his explosiveness, is leverage such a problem? I mean even without being good at it (and I still believe CB can coach him on that) he can manipulate the OG or OT with such ease just with his arms that it may be overblown as a concern.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Jacquouille

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

But at the same time, when you're 6'7'', you have arms and hands as big as Buckner's, not even talking about his explosiveness, is leverage such a problem? I mean even without being good at it (and I still believe CB can coach him on that) he can manipulate the OG or OT with such ease just with his arms that it may be overblown as a concern.

If he gets stood up and put on skates when he plays high in college I'm sure it'll happen in the NFL. 

 

I'm not saying he won't be good. I think he will be very good, I think he will demand the respect of every line he faces, and I think He will make an impact. I think he will have plenty of swatted passes because that's something he does well and I think he'll be a beast at forcing the line to move laterally and plugging lanes against the run. However, I don't think he brings the interior pass rush that so many people think he will bring, I think he is best against the OT where pad level is less of an issue and if he has a quality DT to the inside then he will be able to bring some edge rush. I just don't think he consistently dominated guards at the next level