Who should we take at #6? The new and improved version

[JoeyFlex5]

I always say helll no to a first round rb. 

 

Then as the draft approaches I find mysel f slightly desiring the top rb.. 

 

This year is no exception. The more I see people say no to zeke the more I consider his appeal. I think His presence turns all of our close games into wins, and our leads stay leads with a guy like that. It will be hard to get our offense off the field with zeke

[jazz1988]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Personally, I'd be extremely mad if the Ravens took Buckner

Why ?

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, Inqui said:

Joeckel's in Last Chance Saloon (and he's lucky to be there), and Beachum's essentially a one-year rental if they choose not to pick up his option. I don't think they'd pass up Tunsil just because they have a couple of stop-gaps atm. They've talked about putting Joeckel at LG, so I think they could make something work for a year. And that's assuming he's even there - where I think it'd be more likely that the Cowboys trade 1.4.

I usually try to be open to all possibilities, but Tunsil falling to 6 is just fantasyland talk.

I've seen quite a few very realistic mocks that have him going to the Ravens, but obviously it depends on picks 1-3

But even so, the defense was a far greater problem than their offense and I'd fully expect Gus Bradley to want to grab that inside linebacker that really made the front seven of the Seahawks be able to work.

Edited April 2, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[BmoreBird22]

7 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Why ?

Because he's a damn good run defender, but I think he has a very low ceiling as a pass rusher. He's not flexible enough, quick enough, or explosive enough to be an edge rusher, he's way too tall and lacks the natural leverage and the quick first step to be a 3T pass rusher, so you'd put him at the 1T and ask him to eat blocks and generate a push, but not expect numbers as a pass rusher.

His comparison always seems to be Calais Campbell, but I view that more so based on the fact that both are very tall, long, big 3-4 DE's, but I think his play will actually be very reminiscent of Chris Canty when talking about pass rush.

[Inqui]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I've seen quite a few very realistic mocks that have him going to the Ravens, but obviously it depends on picks 1-3

This is one of those times where I want to have it rubbed in my face if I'm wrong - simply because being wrong in this case is great for us. Copping all the "suck it!" posts, switching up my avatar and turning my text pink will be well worth it for me. But Tunsil's arguably the best prospect outside of Andrew Luck since 2011, three sides in front of us need to upgrade their OLs (four if the Browns trade Thomas away) and the Cowboys could get a decent price for putting their pick up for auction (and target a guy like Zeke with a slightly later pick - that'd be a fantastic move on their part), so I honestly can't see it happening.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, Inqui said:

This is one of those times where I want to have it rubbed in my face if I'm wrong - simply because being wrong in this case is great for us. Copping all the "suck it!" posts, switching up my avatar and turning my text pink will be well worth it for me. But Tunsil's arguably the best prospect outside of Andrew Luck since 2011, three sides in front of us need to upgrade their OLs (four if the Browns trade Thomas away) and the Cowboys could get a decent price for putting their pick up for auction (and target a guy like Zeke with a slightly later pick - that'd be a fantastic move on their part), so I honestly can't see it happening.

I think the Titans will take him, but in the event that they take Ramsey, the Browns will probably go with Goff (new regime, why not get the quarterback whisperer someone to work with?), and that's where the real wildcard comes in- The Chargers. I feel like everyone fully expects them to go offensive line, but they have talent and a lot invested in there; it's just they've had so many injuries.

I view the Cowboys as a non-threat and I fully expect the Jaguars to go defense. 

[jazz1988]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Because he's a damn good run defender, but I think he has a very low ceiling as a pass rusher. He's not flexible enough, quick enough, or explosive enough to be an edge rusher, he's way too tall and lacks the natural leverage and the quick first step to be a 3T pass rusher, so you'd put him at the 1T and ask him to eat blocks and generate a push, but not expect numbers as a pass rusher.

His comparison always seems to be Calais Campbell, but I view that more so based on the fact that both are very tall, long, big 3-4 DE's, but I think his play will actually be very reminiscent of Chris Canty when talking about pass rush.

 

That's fair . I honestly need to watch more tape on him but I know pro football focus graded him highly as a  pass rusher. I honestly think the top guys that will be available by the time The Ravens pick would include Buckner, Stanley, and  Hargreaves .

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

 

That's fair . I honestly need to watch more tape on him but I know pro football focus graded him highly as a  pass rusher. I honestly think the top guys that will be available by the time The Ravens pick would include Buckner, Stanley, and  Hargreaves .

Well, pass rushing will be far more difficult from the interior in the pros. The Pac12 isn't an offensive line factory by any stretch.

[Gordo52]

5 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Apparently the Ravens are talking about it

Don't see it anywhere but I sure hope not. 

 

Yeah he'd make our offense better but not worthy of our 6th. 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, Gordo52 said:

Don't see it anywhere but I sure hope not. 

 

Yeah he'd make our offense better but not worthy of our 6th. 

He won't just make it better. He will make it more sustainable. Need a conversion to run out the clock? Running, catching, blitz pickup, he can handle it. Need to punch it in from the red zone instead of settling for field goals like we always do? Up the gut, around the corner, screen, or dump off, he's the guy

 

He very well could be the difference in every single 1 possession game we lost last year.

[Inqui]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think the Titans will take him, but in the event that they take Ramsey, the Browns will probably go with Goff (new regime, why not get the quarterback whisperer someone to work with?), and that's where the real wildcard comes in- The Chargers. I feel like everyone fully expects them to go offensive line, but they have talent and a lot invested in there; it's just they've had so many injuries.

I view the Cowboys as a non-threat and I fully expect the Jaguars to go defense. 

The Browns could also do what the Bengals did in 2011 and take the BPA and grab a QB in the 2nd. The Chargers could go somewhere else, but I still see Tunsil as the top guy on their board both in terms of talent and keeping Rivers alive (and helping another recent 1st rounder in Gordon). The Cowboys aren't picking him, but like I say I think they'll get some healthy offers for the pick if Tunsil (again, the best player in the draft and arguably the best prospect since Luck) is inexplicably there at 4. And even if they keep the pick and take someone else, I know the Jags are focusing on the defensive side but they're not going to take VH3 and certainly not Buckner at the expense of Tunsil just because they essentially have two one-year rentals on the books.

Quote me after the draft if ALL that happens and rub it in my face if I'm wrong, I'll be glad to take the hit. But sadly the reason I'll be thrilled to take that hit is the reason why I don't see any world in which he makes it all the way to 6 - he's just that good a player.

[Maryland]

8 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He won't just make it better. He will make it more sustainable. Need a conversion to run out the clock? Running, catching, blitz pickup, he can handle it. Need to punch it in from the red zone instead of settling for field goals like we always do? Up the gut, around the corner, screen, or dump off, he's the guy

He very well could be the difference in every single 1 possession game we lost last year.

I wouldn't be disappointed with Zeke at 8 or later for all of the reasons you said.

I mean, just look at how much the Steelers' offense regressed without Bell (coincidentally, Zeke has been compared to Bell by analysts). An elite RB can make a world of difference in every way, either by forcing the opposing defense to respect the run on passing plays, picking up blitzes, catching passes, or just running for first downs reliably. An elite RB can impact the game just as much as an elite WR; the main difference is that WRs last longer.

I think Trestman would be the perfect coach to get full-use out of Zeke's receiving abilities. He'd be like the new Matt Forte.

[Inqui]

Just now, Maryland said:

I wouldn't be disappointed with Zeke at 8 or later for all of the reasons you said.

I mean, just look at how much the Steelers' offense regressed without Bell (coincidentally, Zeke has been compared to Bell by analysts). An elite RB can make a world of difference in every way, either by forcing the opposing defense to respect the run on passing plays, picking up blitzes, catching passes, or just running for first downs reliably. An elite RB can impact the game just as much as an elite WR; the main difference is that WRs last longer.

I think Trestman would be the perfect coach to get full-use out of Zeke's receiving abilities. He'd be like the new Matt Forte.

Agree with all of this. There are several other guys I'd prefer, but even at 6 I wouldn't be mad with the pick. With how close most of our games were, I don't think it'd be a stretch to say we'd have gone 7-9 if we had Zeke on the books.

The way he seemed to throw the OSU coaches under the bus did bug me a little though. Not to say it'd make him undraftable or anything, but it could be something that matters to our FO and could be a legit point of difference if we had him closely ranked with someone else.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Inqui

[Gordo52]

1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He won't just make it better. He will make it more sustainable. Need a conversion to run out the clock? Running, catching, blitz pickup, he can handle it. Need to punch it in from the red zone instead of settling for field goals like we always do? Up the gut, around the corner, screen, or dump off, he's the guy

 

He very well could be the difference in every single 1 possession game we lost last year.

I don't like the idea of building an offense around a RB in today's league. Especially since how easy it is to find serviceable backs and the current ones we have now. 

 

That would be awful reliant on a player who mainly relies mostly on the 10 infront of him and the game situation. Not to mention the heavy workload Elliot would be expected to endure scares the crap out of me. 6 is too high to invest in him since we're a team with a plethora of other needs at more crucial positions. 

 

Makes me feel like a hypocrite liking the idea of Jack at 6 since the typical unwritten rule is no RB or ILB in the top half of the 1st, or even 1st all together, but Jack would be more beneficial for our defense than Elliot our offense, IMO. Both do it all at a high level but the way the league has become and headed plays a big part on my opinion.

 

..also because Jack could be better RB than Elliot if he really wanted to.  

[PurpleCity5]

I haven't been on this board recently due to school and work, but I'm shocked to see the turnaround of opinions on Ezekiel Elliot at pick number 6. I just cannot agree with that and I would honestly be pretty pissed if we pulled such a move. Myles Jack, DeForest Buckner, Ronnie Stanley and Vernon Hargreaves are guys I like more. I understand Elliot is really talented but I just don't like the move.

[Maryland]

8 minutes ago, Gordo52 said:

I don't like the idea of building an offense around a RB in today's league. Especially since how easy it is to find serviceable backs and the current ones we have now. 

 

That would be awful reliant on a player who mainly relies mostly on the 10 infront of him and the game situation. Not to mention the heavy workload Elliot would be expected to endure scares the crap out of me. 6 is too high to invest in him since we're a team with a plethora of other needs at more crucial positions. 

 

Makes me feel like a hypocrite liking the idea of Jack at 6 since the typical unwritten rule is no RB or ILB in the top half of the 1st, or even 1st all together, but Jack would be more beneficial for our defense than Elliot our offense, IMO. Both do it all at a high level but the way the league has become and headed plays a big part on my opinion.

 

..also because Jack could be better RB than Elliot if he really wanted to.  

I have to disagree that we would be "building an offense around a RB."

Trestman already has his offense, and we already have our QB. We would be adding the perfect talent to fit our preexisting offense, not building an offense around a talented RB. 

[Gordo52]

9 minutes ago, Maryland said:

I wouldn't be disappointed with Zeke at 8 or later for all of the reasons you said.

I mean, just look at how much the Steelers' offense regressed without Bell (coincidentally, Zeke has been compared to Bell by analysts). An elite RB can make a world of difference in every way, either by forcing the opposing defense to respect the run on passing plays, picking up blitzes, catching passes, or just running for first downs reliably. An elite RB can impact the game just as much as an elite WR; the main difference is that WRs last longer.

I think Trestman would be the perfect coach to get full-use out of Zeke's receiving abilities. He'd be like the new Matt Forte.

I do strongly agree with your last part on how perfect Trestman would be for him, however Bell was taken in the 2nd. Not 6th overall. And yes an elite back can make a difference. Up until they're injured, (and my guess is they're the most injured and shortest life position) or the game dictates differently, (still will have impact but minimal)

I'm aware it's a completely different scenerio but even if he lived up to AP's status, look at where thats gotten the Vikings...If we had a Cowboys oline I would understand it better. Just much rather take advantage at the rare spot were picking at and draft a game changing pass rusher, cover man or receiver. 

[Gordo52]

6 minutes ago, Maryland said:

I have to disagree that we would be "building an offense around a RB."

Trestman already has his offense, and we already have our QB. We would be adding the perfect talent to fit our preexisting offense, not building an offense around a talented RB. 

Disagree. I look at players in the first round, top 10 especially, as building blocks for years to come. Players who will shine whatever the situation is. Unless a team is stacked on both sides would I view them as complimentary pieces. 

[RaineV1]

I think the talk of running backs having short life spans in the NFL is a bit overblown. One thing to keep in mind is that top running backs on a bunch of other teams get run into the ground fairly quickly because they're the only offense that team has, like Gurley with the Rams. For the Ravens though, we have deep threats that keep people from stacking the box, and we have other RBs to help keel Zeke fresh. A top tier running back could last for as long as a WR if he isn't over used, and the Ravens currently probably wouldn't overuse Zeke.

That said, there are still guys I want more than him. I'd only take Zeke if we traded back.

[Inqui]

19 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I haven't been on this board recently due to school and work, but I'm shocked to see the turnaround of opinions on Ezekiel Elliot at pick number 6. I just cannot agree with that and I would honestly be pretty pissed if we pulled such a move. Myles Jack, DeForest Buckner, Ronnie Stanley and Vernon Hargreaves are guys I like more. I understand Elliot is really talented but I just don't like the move.

There are plenty of guys I'd rather take (I'm kinda on the fence between him and DFB, but VH3, Stanley and the blue-chippers are all better prospects imo), but I wouldn't be pissed at the pick. The OL gets a lot of credit for the running game - and rightly so - but a top-tier RB like what Zeke can become can be the difference between a rushing game of 3.5 or 4.0ypa and having 4.5ypa (top five or top 10 this past season) and a guy like Zeke who can do it all would add a lot of wrinkles to our offensive personnel.

So like I say, I like enough players that I wouldn't want him at 6 simply because I'd prefer others, but if we ended up trading back a small way I hope he's on our radar. I'd easily take him over Treadwell or Coleman.

[Fernando suarez]

MYLES JACK, if available

 

[Maryland]

3 hours ago, Gordo52 said:

Disagree. I look at players in the first round, top 10 especially, as building blocks for years to come. Players who will shine whatever the situation is. Unless a team is stacked on both sides would I view them as complimentary pieces. 

I think we have a difference of opinion on what it means to "build an offense" around somebody. To me, it means changing your system/scheme to accommodate a player's talents, and then gathering other players to fit this scheme.

A top-10 pick can be a building block for years to come regardless of scheme. A good RB like Zeke could excel in a man-blocking scheme just fine, but it just so happens we already run a ZBS, which would work well with his first-step quickness. And we have an OC who already favors the use of a RB in the passing game, which would work well with Zeke's talent as a receiver. So in this case we really don't have to "build around" Zeke; his strengths fit the scheme we already have in place.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Maryland

[Gordo52]

51 minutes ago, Maryland said:

I think we have a difference of opinion on what it means to "build an offense" around somebody. To me, it means changing your system/scheme to accommodate a player's talents, and then gathering other players to fit this scheme.

A top-10 pick can be a building block for years to come regardless of scheme. A good RB like Zeke could excel in a man-blocking scheme just fine, but it just so happens we already run a ZBS, which would work well with his first-step quickness. And we have an OC who already favors the use of a RB in the passing game, which would work well with Zeke's talent as a receiver. So in this case we really don't have to "build around" Zeke; his strengths fit the scheme we already have in place.

Well if we end up drafting a RB at 6, we better scheme around featuring him for at least the next 4-6+ years. He also better be among the very top in production during those years. If he's not, he'll be a gigantic bust that could set a franchise back....I get that he's a beast and I hate having to put him down but he's a luxury we can't afford at 6.

I think back these past few years of all the RB's taken late or through FA and the impacts they've had. Talent at RB is great. But scheme fit, players around them, age & coaching can make a good one look great and not cost the 6th overall pick.

[JoeyFlex5]

49 minutes ago, Gordo52 said:

Well if we end up drafting a RB at 6, we better scheme around featuring him for at least the next 4-6+ years. He also better be among the very top in production during those years. If he's not, he'll be a gigantic bust that could set a franchise back....I get that he's a beast and I hate having to put him down but he's a luxury we can't afford at 6.

I think back these past few years of all the RB's taken late or through FA and the impacts they've had. Talent at RB is great. But scheme fit, players around them, age & coaching can make a good one look great and not cost the 6th overall pick.

A rb that can help you convert a handful more 3rd downs each and every week is not a luxury. Even if he isn't putting up 1500 yards rushing, the advantage of having a rb who performs very well in pass pro and as a safety valve for dumpoffs is no luxury. And with how inconsistent we are on offense it actually may be EXACTLY what we need. instead of scoring with ease one drive and then disappearing for the rest of the half like we always do, let's have a ground game that keeps us on the field, lets have a rb who can intelligently chip an edge rusher and  then roll out for the dump on 3rd and 5 and convert it, let's get a guy who can likely boost our time of possession by a whole 5 minutes per week and bring our red zone offense from trash to top 5 in the league. 

 

I absolutely 100% believe zeke could make that big a difference on this team. Our offense seems tailor made for him and he seems tailor made for us.

[Jacquouille]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

A rb that can help you convert a handful more 3rd downs each and every week is not a luxury. Even if he isn't putting up 1500 yards rushing, the advantage of having a rb who performs very well in pass pro and as a safety valve for dumpoffs is no luxury. And with how inconsistent we are on offense it actually may be EXACTLY what we need. instead of scoring with ease one drive and then disappearing for the rest of the half like we always do, let's have a ground game that keeps us on the field, lets have a rb who can intelligently chip an edge rusher and  then roll out for the dump on 3rd and 5 and convert it, let's get a guy who can likely boost our time of possession by a whole 5 minutes per week and bring our red zone offense from trash to top 5 in the league. 

 

I absolutely 100% believe zeke could make that big a difference on this team. Our offense seems tailor made for him and he seems tailor made for us.

Couldn't agree more. That's exactly what Zeke would represent. I'm still on the "give Buck a chance and wait for next year", but if we took Zeke I won't be mad because he makes our offense top5. 

[Kinda_Dante]

I wouldn't mind if they pick Zeke with the 6th overall pick because to me that says the FO thinks he's a generational talent. It might bother me a little if a player like Bosa, Jack, or Ramsey are still on the board. I'm not a big fan of Buckner and I still have to watch more tape on VH3 so at this point I would be fine if Zeke was picked before those guys. Also he like any other player we draft at 6 could end up being a bust so I feel like that argument is irrelevant. 

[BmoreBird22]

10 hours ago, Gordo52 said:

Don't see it anywhere but I sure hope not. 

 

Yeah he'd make our offense better but not worthy of our 6th. 

@rmw10 posted a link that had it in there, but he was viewed as a top 5 pick last year and sustained his play this year to continue being viewed as the best offensive player outside of Tunsil.

[BmoreBird22]

10 hours ago, Inqui said:

The Browns could also do what the Bengals did in 2011 and take the BPA and grab a QB in the 2nd. The Chargers could go somewhere else, but I still see Tunsil as the top guy on their board both in terms of talent and keeping Rivers alive (and helping another recent 1st rounder in Gordon). The Cowboys aren't picking him, but like I say I think they'll get some healthy offers for the pick if Tunsil (again, the best player in the draft and arguably the best prospect since Luck) is inexplicably there at 4. And even if they keep the pick and take someone else, I know the Jags are focusing on the defensive side but they're not going to take VH3 and certainly not Buckner at the expense of Tunsil just because they essentially have two one-year rentals on the books.

Quote me after the draft if ALL that happens and rub it in my face if I'm wrong, I'll be glad to take the hit. But sadly the reason I'll be thrilled to take that hit is the reason why I don't see any world in which he makes it all the way to 6 - he's just that good a player.

I would doubt the Browns copy that format because in 2011, there were many, many quarterbacks that were worth of a round one to two selection, unlike now where we have two that are considered top tier and then a bunch that may or may not transition well to the pros. In addition, the Bengals didn't have a coaching staff overhaul; in fact, they re-signed Lewis. Jackson is probably all the more likely to get his guy with RGIII being signed for two years.

Could be the top guy, or he could fall some. The Chargers have many different directions they could go. Defensive line (Buckner or Bosa) would be a good pick, a quarterback to groom behind 34 year old Rivers (who has said he'd request a trade or retire if the team is moved, I believe). I can't see offensive line because they just signed Orlando Franklin last year, King Dunlap has three years left on his contract, they just signed Joe Barksdale to a four year contract. The one area where they have a lot of question marks is at center (and right guard if Fluker isn't re-signed, but that's likely, I'd imagine), but Tunsil isn't playing center any time soon. 

I didn't suggest the Jaguars would take VH3 or Buckner (never saw them taking either, anyway), but I'd certainly imagine they will take Myles Jack. Bobby Wagner made that front seven of Seattle jive and Jack is probably going to be a lot better than Wagner. 

Plus, as far as Tunsil being the best player in the draft, that's fairly fluid and being changed by a lot of people right now. Many people view Ramsey as the best player in the draft (and why not when he can play every single secondary position?) and a lot are becoming very high on Myles Jack, especially if his medicals check out. Then there's the fact that if Jaylon Smith weren't injured, he'd be the clear cut best player in the draft. It's a real stretch to say Tunsil is the best player in the draft since Luck in 2012.

We've seen good players fall before. In 2011, Patrick Peterson was viewed as the best player in the draft, but he goes number 5 to the Cardinals (and what a pick he's turning out to be). In 2013, Tyler Eifert and Shariff Floyd were viewed by many outlets as top 10 picks, but both went in the 20's. In 2014, CJ Mosley was viewed as a top 5 prospect and Teddy Bridgewater was considered the best player in the draft. Just last year, Leonard Floyd was unequivocally the best player in the draft and there was no way he makes it past Oakland (the team he dreamed of playing for) and he goes number six to the Jets. The point is, our media and personal perceptions and rankings of a player are usually far off from how the NFL views players and our big boards are usually different.

I'm not even saying Tunsil (or Ramsey) will make it to six, but I would hardly be shocked if it happened. 

[jazz1988]

6 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

A rb that can help you convert a handful more 3rd downs each and every week is not a luxury. Even if he isn't putting up 1500 yards rushing, the advantage of having a rb who performs very well in pass pro and as a safety valve for dumpoffs is no luxury. And with how inconsistent we are on offense it actually may be EXACTLY what we need. instead of scoring with ease one drive and then disappearing for the rest of the half like we always do, let's have a ground game that keeps us on the field, lets have a rb who can intelligently chip an edge rusher and  then roll out for the dump on 3rd and 5 and convert it, let's get a guy who can likely boost our time of possession by a whole 5 minutes per week and bring our red zone offense from trash to top 5 in the league. 

 

I absolutely 100% believe zeke could make that big a difference on this team. Our offense seems tailor made for him and he seems tailor made for us.

Even with all that if The Ravens drafted him with the  6th overall pick the expections should be for him to be a  elite running back asap or in the future. I personally think if The Ravens have interest in Elliot then they should trade down and get more picks then get him

[beanfigger]

We just signed the last RB taken that high in the draft, right? Don't need to be greedy. 2nd round (preferably late after a trade) at the earliest for a RB in today's game.