Who should we take at #6? The new and improved version

[Maryland]

Although I'm a little late to the conversation, I feel like drafting Zeke could be a pretty awesome fit for our offense, mainly because of Trestman. I would be disappointed with the pick at #6, but trading down would be fine. Trestman could get the most out of Zeke's receiving abilities, whether through screens or by using him in the slot to test the defense (get a slow LB matched up on him in coverage and they could be in trouble).

Like, let's say we're on the goal line with a heavy formation (3 TE, 2 RB) and run on first down. We could no-huddle into a passing play the very next down using the same personnel and be just as effective, exploiting their short-yardage defense. With a RB like Zeke, he could run routes just about as well as a receiver in the slot. Juice is an obvious receiving threat. Crockett and Boyle (if he stops getting suspended) can block just as well as they can catch. Maxx is an able blocker and a good receiving threat. Could be devastating on the goal line. For a cheaper option, ASU's DJ Foster could also exploit defenses in this way, although he's not as good between the tackles like Zeke. 

[Maryland]

4 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Plenty of players grade positively in limited snaps and then vanish. Melvin graded positively in limited snaps at one point. As for Orr, do you know anything in particular about the grades? Was he better at run support? Coverage? I know none of our backup LBs looked good in the preseason last year and that we got beat over the middle of the field for a good chunk of the season. 

I remember Arthur Brown grading in the green on PFF lol. 

[52520Andrew]

9 minutes ago, Maryland said:

I remember Arthur Brown grading in the green on PFF lol. 

I remember Anthony Collins had a great few games at LT and got signed by Tampa before laying a big fat egg there. This isn't to discredit PFF too much, more just to point out that people can look better than they actually are over a small sample size. I feel like we have had that situation play out countless times at WR.

[Maryland]

6 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

I remember Anthony Collins had a great few games at LT and got signed by Tampa before laying a big fat egg there. This isn't to discredit PFF too much, more just to point out that people can look better than they actually are over a small sample size. I feel like we have had that situation play out countless times at WR.

I was trying to vouch your point. A small sample size goes both ways. On one extreme, there was Arthur Brown in the green his rookie year in limited snaps, and he's a huge bust. On the other extreme, there was Brandon Williams in the green his rookie year in limited snaps, and he went on to be a top-3 NT. 

Although PFF is certainly gimmicky with some of its stats. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Maryland

[JoeyFlex5]

Players get small sample sizes for a reason, they're only capable of limited roles. Sometimes guys progress like mcphee, but some players are just best left in a part time role

[L.A.Ravens]

5 hours ago, ravensdan said:

What if the top 5 fell like this:

Titans:. Buckner

Browns:. Goff

Chargers:. Tunsil 

Cowboys:. Elliott

jaguars:. Jack

 

who do you take???

Ramsey

Edited March 19, 2016 by L.A.Ravens

[Davesta]

6 hours ago, ravensdan said:

What if the top 5 fell like this:

Titans:. Buckner

Browns:. Goff

Chargers:. Tunsil 

Cowboys:. Elliott

jaguars:. Jack

 

who do you take???

This is the first time I see Buckner rated that high. No way lol

[52520Andrew]

1 hour ago, Maryland said:

I was trying to vouch your point. 

Yeah I know lol, just me going off on a tangent.

[Cycu]

Guys, why do you want to take RB this year? We have really solid group. Let's see if Forsett can repeat his big numbers. We can cut him next offseason. Let's see if Buck can put solid numbers again. Let's see if Lorenzo can stay healthy. This years draft is loaded with defensive talent that we need badly. What's the point in taking RB with #6? Especially with Fournette, McCaffrey,Dalvin Cook available next year. After we cut Forsett we can get one of this guys. Even with #32

[KBoum]

I'd go with Ramsey.

At the end of the day this will be decided not with on field skills but off the field behavior. The scouts know more than us about them all but I've never heard anything bad on Ramsey (yet)

[Dewy101]

15 hours ago, Maryland said:

I remember Arthur Brown grading in the green on PFF lol. 

On special teams yes but he's never graded green for a season just average which is white lol

[Dewy101]

15 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

Plenty of players grade positively in limited snaps and then vanish. Melvin graded positively in limited snaps at one point. As for Orr, do you know anything in particular about the grades? Was he better at run support? Coverage? I know none of our backup LBs looked good in the preseason last year and that we got beat over the middle of the field for a good chunk of the season. 

He was good in coverage and run support. I know that's why I said limited number of snaps. His sample size is small but he played well. Every player seems to have up and down season Patrick Peterson in 2014 was horific but he bounced back in 2015 in their grading system. I'm not saying Orr is an all pro linebacker just serviceable. 

[Dewy101]

15 hours ago, Maryland said:

I was trying to vouch your point. A small sample size goes both ways. On one extreme, there was Arthur Brown in the green his rookie year in limited snaps, and he's a huge bust. On the other extreme, there was Brandon Williams in the green his rookie year in limited snaps, and he went on to be a top-3 NT. 

Although PFF is certainly gimmicky with some of its stats. 

their system asks for consistency it's year in and year out which is why it's hard to grade out positively every year. They were a bit hesitant on Anthony Collins playing so well his contract season, but his past play was nowhere near as good. Some of there staff members were hesitant of Oliver Vernon because he never graded out this well outside of his contract season. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Dewy101

[RavensFanMania]

20 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

 

Both Ramsey & Bosa and hope the NFL doesn't notice.

lol, sounds good to me

[lgcs27288]

I was reading Bosa's scouting report on nfl.com, not gonna lie, got a bit turned off on drafting him.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/joey-bosa?id=2555249

[52520Andrew]

8 hours ago, Dewy101 said:

He was good in coverage and run support. I know that's why I said limited number of snaps. His sample size is small but he played well. Every player seems to have up and down season Patrick Peterson in 2014 was horific but he bounced back in 2015 in their grading system. I'm not saying Orr is an all pro linebacker just serviceable. 

Serviceable is still stretching it. An UDFA who has played limited snaps is not a reason for me to be comfortable with a position or think I am getting serviceable play from it. It just isn't. It would be like saying not to sign Weddle because Trawick graded positively in limited snaps(don't know if he did or not but that is beside the point). Or being comfortable with Trawick starting or expecting him to be serviceable over significant snaps.

Now if you see a player in practice every day and you think he has what it takes to handle that position then that is one thing. That is what training camp is all about and Orr will get his shot there. But we don't have near that kinda knowledge on these players.

No clue what Peterson has anything to do with this, he had a history of playing good over SIGNIFICANT snaps before 2014. A better example from the Cardinals may be Jerraud Powers who looked good in limited snaps but struggled when asked to play a larger role. 

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, 52520Andrew said:

Serviceable is still stretching it. An UDFA who has played limited snaps is not a reason for me to be comfortable with a position or think I am getting serviceable play from it. It just isn't. It would be like saying not to sign Weddle because Trawick graded positively in limited snaps(don't know if he did or not but that is beside the point). Or being comfortable with Trawick starting or expecting him to be serviceable over significant snaps.

Now if you see a player in practice every day and you think he has what it takes to handle that position then that is one thing. That is what training camp is all about and Orr will get his shot there. But we don't have near that kinda knowledge on these players.

No clue what Peterson has anything to do with this, he had a history of playing good over SIGNIFICANT snaps before 2014. A better example from the Cardinals may be Jerraud Powers who looked good in limited snaps but struggled when asked to play a larger role. 

Gino Gradkowski also looked good in limited snaps, and we know how that turned out.

[Maryland]

19 hours ago, Cycu said:

Guys, why do you want to take RB this year? We have really solid group. Let's see if Forsett can repeat his big numbers. We can cut him next offseason. Let's see if Buck can put solid numbers again. Let's see if Lorenzo can stay healthy. This years draft is loaded with defensive talent that we need badly. What's the point in taking RB with #6? Especially with Fournette, McCaffrey,Dalvin Cook available next year. After we cut Forsett we can get one of this guys. Even with #32

I feel like we got a whole lot of average in our RB corps. Buck is probably a good, durable RB, and Forsett is reliable, but there aren't any awesome talents on our roster from what I've seen. There's no one you need to plan/prepare for as an opposing defense.

I would like to see them draft a fast pass-catching RB. I can't remember the last RB the Ravens have had who was both fast and good at receiving (Rice was a good pass-catching RB, but not fast like a Sproles/Spiller type RB)

[allblackraven]

35 minutes ago, Maryland said:

I feel like we got a whole lot of average in our RB corps. Buck is probably a good, durable RB, and Forsett is reliable, but there aren't any awesome talents on our roster from what I've seen. There's no one you need to plan/prepare for as an opposing defense.

I would like to see them draft a fast pass-catching RB. I can't remember the last RB the Ravens have had who was both fast and good at receiving (Rice was a good pass-catching RB, but not fast like a Sproles/Spiller type RB)

Buck Allen should be solid in that department but what I would like to see - and I know this is a #6 pick thread - is Ozzie pick Henry in 2nd (if he is somehow  passed over by Cowboys), exactly for that reason.

His pass catching abilities are majorly overlooked because of the way Alabama used him (and they had Drake, too). He is not the fastest back for sure but he's far from being slow, considering how big he is and we all know what he's capable of doing with a ball in hand and little bit of space around him. He has very underrated receiving ability and apparently can run pretty much full route tree catching everything on the way, as he showed on Bama pro day, due to shortage of WRs for QB drills. I think Trestman could get chains moving in very creative ways with him.

[DomMcRaven]

1. Tunsil

2. QB

3. Buckner or Stanley

If this scenario comes into fruition and there isn't any injuries, arrests, etc., I'll be happy. 

[Italian Raven]

16 hours ago, Maryland said:

I feel like we got a whole lot of average in our RB corps. Buck is probably a good, durable RB, and Forsett is reliable, but there aren't any awesome talents on our roster from what I've seen. There's no one you need to plan/prepare for as an opposing defense.

Same opinion here. In all honesty I didn't like the Buck pick (with Mike Davis still on board) and I just can't love him yet.

He doesn't have a good vision; he misses to see big holes that would allow us big yardage and I recall him prefering to run into his tackler rather than take the outside leverage and a couple of yards along the sideline.

As you say, we don't have the great RB depth we are brought to believe, but there's just not much alternative after Henry this year.

My favourite guy is Washington of TTU.. he has a crazy start and stop motor, he's very shaky.. I think he's valuable as a 3rd down RB running some flat, screens or drags, given his ability to make people miss on the open field. I just wouldn't be sure of him as an every-down back and I wouldn't touch him before the late 5th-6th.

[edthehead]

not that it matters,

but I voted for ZEEEEK,,, 

yes I know I wanted TREADWELL in the past and boyd in the 2nd (still boyd in the 2nd) but with the addition of wallace

things change, I know we need CB's , pass rusher's  and OL,

but I have always said our rb's are average

" EZE E" as our RB, just think what our O can possibly produce 

I made a post earlier about our offense being more pass

think of the formations,  

[thieverycorporation]

39 minutes ago, edthehead said:

not that it matters,

but I voted for ZEEEEK,,, 

yes I know I wanted TREADWELL in the past and boyd in the 2nd (still boyd in the 2nd) but with the addition of wallace

things change, I know we need CB's , pass rusher's  and OL,

but I have always said our rb's are average

" EZE E" as our RB, just think what our O can possibly produce 

I made a post earlier about our offense being more pass

think of the formations,  

I think your correct if we truly go best player available. Is he a need no but to me he does represent BPA as an aside to Hargreaves. He'd be our answer to Bell. We do need to get consistent play out of the backfield. He's thought to represent such. I don't know if greater value could had by bypassing him for BP of need.

Edited March 20, 2016 by thieverycorporation

[flynismo]

If by some miracle Ramsey is still there, we take him; otherwise I'd be happy with VH3, Treadwell or Stanley. Don't like Jack or Bosa that high, mock "experts" be damned. And if we take a RB, I will personally burn down the castle

[Jacquouille]

As long as we don't take Stanley I'll be happy I think. Even if it's an unexpected choice, our FO guys know what they are doing. If they take the guy they believe will bring the "instant Coffee", I'm good. 

In Ozzie and Eric I'll trust.

[usmccharles]

35 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

As long as we don't take Stanley I'll be happy I think. Even if it's an unexpected choice, our FO guys know what they are doing. If they take the guy they believe will bring the "instant Coffee", I'm good. 

In Ozzie and Eric I'll trust.

You do realize that first sentence contradicts the rest of what you said lol

[Jacquouille]

8 hours ago, usmccharles said:

You do realize that first sentence contradicts the rest of what you said lol

Yes, I do ^^. I just don't see any reason for Stanley to be a difference maker, and I just don't like the player and the guy. If Ozzie takes Spence or Zeke or Shaq I would just think "He knows his job". I would think the same if he took Stanley, but I wouldn't like it.

[theultimatefanman]

I am certain the pick will be hargraves. exactly what we need and fits ozzie's veiled comments

[Dewy101]

On March 20, 2016 at 9:51 PM, 52520Andrew said:

Serviceable is still stretching it. An UDFA who has played limited snaps is not a reason for me to be comfortable with a position or think I am getting serviceable play from it. It just isn't. It would be like saying not to sign Weddle because Trawick graded positively in limited snaps(don't know if he did or not but that is beside the point). Or being comfortable with Trawick starting or expecting him to be serviceable over significant snaps.

Now if you see a player in practice every day and you think he has what it takes to handle that position then that is one thing. That is what training camp is all about and Orr will get his shot there. But we don't have near that kinda knowledge on these players.

No clue what Peterson has anything to do with this, he had a history of playing good over SIGNIFICANT snaps before 2014. A better example from the Cardinals may be Jerraud Powers who looked good in limited snaps but struggled when asked to play a larger role. 

There's a reason why our coaching staff was more comfortable with Orr over Daryl Smith when it came to passing situations. He has potential. We've had past success with UDFA. Guys like Ellerbe, Bynes, even Bart Scott. All who were more than serviceable. I trust the coaching staff they wouldn't be taking Smith off the field for Orr if he couldnt get the job done. 

[52520Andrew]

Just now, Dewy101 said:

There's a reason why our coaching staff was more comfortable with Orr over Daryl Smith when it came to passing situations. He has potential. We've had past success with UDFA. Guys like Ellerbe, Bynes, even Bart Scott. All who were more than serviceable. I trust the coaching staff they wouldn't be taking Smith off the field for Orr if he couldnt get the job done. 

Well they just cut Smith and he graded pretty bad when he was on the field towards the end of the year so that tells you how much they liked Smith towards the end of the year. Just because we have found UDFAs at a position in the past doesn't mean anything, and there was a certain player who made it far easier to play next to him. But that type of logic in general is just wrong even if we aren't taking Lewis into account. Should we just have not taken Mosely at 17 then since we are so good at finding ILBs in UDFA? And when has the coaching staff come out and said they are comfortable with Orr? Going into the year with just him next to Mosely and being comfortable with that just is not a good idea to me. I don't care how much you like Orr, this is how we end up in situations like 2013 with Gino, 2014 with our secondary, and our WRs this past year. And you do realize we are going against Eifert, Barnidge, and Ladarius Green twice a year each along with Gronk and Bennett, Reed, Witten, Ertz, and Julius Thomas?