Who should we take at #6? The new and improved version

[Jaybirds]

I can see how Elliott wouldn't be in our top 6.  But if we're really comparing him to Gurley, is he in the Cowboy's top 4? 

[L.A.Ravens]

42 minutes ago, Jaybirds said:

I can see how Elliott wouldn't be in our top 6.  But if we're really comparing him to Gurley, is he in the Cowboy's top 4? 

I've been saying it for months. The Cowboys will take Elliot at 4.

[Inqui]

Fwiw regarding Elliott's positional value, I've actually been coming around recently to the idea of a talented RB being a huge part of pushing your running game over the top.

Looking at the top 10 rushing sides from this past season, it's true that you get sides like the Jets and Cowboys at 9 and 10 in terms of ypa (the metric I prefer to use because it's not affected much by situational play), but you also have the Bucs (whose OL wasn't amazing but they had a great year from Doug Martin), the Vikings and the Rams at 5, 4 and 7 respectively. You also look at the Saints, who had an incredible OL this past season but were only 24th on the back of Tim Hightower; the Steelers, who have a great OL, sitting at 16th without Bell for most of the season; us at 26 without a real feature back, and I could probably bring up the rushing games of the Raiders, Bengals and Eagles not quite living up to their OL's billing. I put very little stock in PFF, but the Bills (#1 in ypa) were PFF's 10th best run blocking unit.

That's not to discount the importance of a great OL by any stretch, but at the same time there's also still no substitute for finding a franchise RB - and we've missed having one of them since Ray Rice was any good. I've got at least 6 players ahead of Elliott so I'm also hoping we don't draft him, but I also think he's the best skill player in the draft (granted that probably says more about the state of the WR class, but still) and a true three-down player who can make a difference in any facet of the game where you'd want a difference made by a RB. So if we don't draft him, I hope it was because we found someone better (which I think will be the case fwiw) and not because we shied away from him because he was a RB.

[JoeyFlex5]

If we took Elliott, i would be very frustrated, but I'd support it and would still be excited. I wanted Melvin Gordon or Gurley last year or hoped yeldon fell to our 2nd. 

 

I haven't seen such a polished back in a long time, he will be a pro bowl rookie, I'd be surprised if hdidn't crack 1000 regardless of his system. And I think He very well could be the next 1k/1k back because he is a stud for 3rd down, however, the league just isn't built for a heavy run game anymore, it's about a balanced attack and rbs are supposed to cost very little in terms of investment for the sake of having a well rounded roster and passing those savings on to your qb, so I doubt the investment is worth the return, especially 5 years down the road when he inevitably gets a fat contract and likely begins to decline. 

 

If you draft a rb this high when you have issues like LT and CB and edge rusher, you're essentially saying that we have a 5 year window to win another ring and this rb will be the reason we do so. Can time of possession make that much of a difference when we still desperately need a pass rusher and cb? Can our secondary perform like it did late last year? Can we generate pass rush with what we have? I'm not so sure, and I'm not sure that Elliott can do enough to offset these issues, even though I am certain he will be a stud.

Edited March 18, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[GrimCoconut]

Maybe Elliott actually helps us score in the red zone and convert those short yard situations more frequently.

[ravensdan]

5 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Maybe Elliott actually helps us score in the red zone and convert those short yard situations more frequently.

He is good between the tackles despite I think being more well known for his big runs. Guy does it all. 

 

 

[JoeyFlex5]

9 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Maybe Elliott actually helps us score in the red zone and convert those short yard situations more frequently.

Thinking more about it.. Elliott is very much in the mold of a Ray rice, strong in pass protection and has a great feel for when to stay home and when to break for the dump off and then turning that dump off into a quality play. The difference is that zekes vision and anticipation are unrivaled by any back in recent memory and rice was very weak in that regard, Elliott would likely bring more positive gains as Ray rice used to be a 1 yarder for entire quarters until he would break one long, Elliott would consistently get upfield because he's just a better and smarter runner. 

 

Maybe he really could be a missing link, we certainly have missed a big time rb and I don't think forsett was the real deal, perhaps Elliott could be what we really need to spark this team

[rmw10]

6 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

He is good between the tackles despite I think being more well known for his big runs. Guy does it all. 

I think that's why I like him so much.  He's very good at everything he does.  He's not as good of a pure runner as Gurley, but he's still supremely talented.  One of my favorite things about him is that he's already a good pass protector.  That seems to hold a lot of guys back, but he's pretty complete in all facets.

Edited March 18, 2016 by rmw10

[GrimCoconut]

4 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Thinking more about it.. Elliott is very much in the mold of a Ray rice, strong in pass protection and has a great feel for when to stay home and when to break for the dump off and then turning that dump off into a quality play. The difference is that zekes vision and anticipation are unrivaled by any back in recent memory and rice was very weak in that regard, Elliott would likely bring more positive gains as Ray rice used to be a 1 yarder for entire quarters until he would break one long, Elliott would consistently get upfield because he's just a better and smarter runner. 

 

Maybe he really could be a missing link, we certainly have missed a big time rb and I don't think forsett was the real deal, perhaps Elliott could be what we really need to spark this team

My man, Ray Rice wasn't good at pass pro. 

[ravensdan]

What if the top 5 fell like this:

Titans:. Buckner

Browns:. Goff

Chargers:. Tunsil 

Cowboys:. Elliott

jaguars:. Jack

 

who do you take???

[rmw10]

3 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

What if the top 5 fell like this:

Titans:. Buckner

Browns:. Goff

Chargers:. Tunsil 

Cowboys:. Elliott

jaguars:. Jack

 

who do you take???

Ramsey? That seems like a no brainer lol

[Inqui]

5 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

What if the top 5 fell like this:

Titans:. Buckner

Browns:. Goff

Chargers:. Tunsil 

Cowboys:. Elliott

jaguars:. Jack

 

who do you take???

I think I'd take Bosa in that situation, but if we took anyone other than him or Ramsey I'd be pretty bummed.

[GrimCoconut]

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Ramsey? That seems like a no brainer lol

 

7 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

What if the top 5 fell like this:

Titans:. Buckner

Browns:. Goff

Chargers:. Tunsil 

Cowboys:. Elliott

jaguars:. Jack

 

who do you take???

Both Ramsey & Bosa and hope the NFL doesn't notice.

[rmw10]

Just now, GrimCoconut said:

 

Both Ramsey & Bosa and hope the NFL doesn't notice.

Oh damn I forgot about Bosa. I just got so excited that Ramsey's name wasn't there. 

[Gordo52]

8 hours ago, ravensdan said:

Ok so first off I have to question lumping Jeffrey in with Dez there's a gap of probably 20 players between those 2. If you are saying treadwell style wise maybe there's some comparison there but I just find rating him this high very suspect. I don't see nearly that type of ceiling. He's a guy that's going to be slow and have problems separating. That's a pretty major issue. It's just not the year with a Julio jones right here in the top 5. 

 

Elliott on the other hand if we are going to go with a skill player which is doubtful a far and away the best rb in this class and best in many classes. He has speed agility. Toughness in the hole. Vision. Explosion. He can receive and block. So we're talking a three down difference maker who can impact a game like lev bell. 

I see his ceiling as Dez, Alshon his floor. Both worthy of a 6th pick IMO. Even somewhere in the middle of them would make a great #1. Agreed he's not on Julio's level. I don't think anyone is when you talk about pure all around dominance.

Being only 20 he has plenty of time to sharpen his route running. When he does he can be a force. Hard to jam him at the line, great hands, feet and frame, will win contested balls - so separation is not a huge concern for me. Having a receiver who can just pluck the ball & use their size & strength for YAC would be great to have.

 

Elliot is a beast and would make a huge impact on any team, I just don't value the position as much as WR. They're more reliant at their main job with the OL infront of them, which fluctuates annually. As where we have the steady constant Joe, combined with a #1 would maximize all opportunities, regardless of how the game dictates or personnel along the OL. WR's have longer life spans as well.

 

I would rather have Ramsey, Jack, Tunsil or Bosa over Treadwell. Wouldn't complain with Buckner but it's close for me. 

[Winchester]

Im in favor of a stallion back there with Joe Cool. Elliott is a stallion.  I like Dixon a lot as well!! I saw him carry the ball 5 times and said it would be awesome to get this guy in round3 if available. If ravens have retained KO, and draft Coleman or Thomas then draft Dixon the offense could maybe of been record breaking and ball control at same time. Or draft Elliott round1 in a trade down and Thomas or Fuller early round2 or even Braxton Miller.or trade back into late round1 for Thomas Doctson or Fuller. I know defense wins championships is the sexy trend after the Superbowl. Watching Von Miller humiliate non NFL caliber tackles on the way to the dance has league offices and fans in an uproar. He was impressive dominating patsies tackles that were practice squad guards week1. But I think a dominant OLine, legit receivers and a stallion runner in the huddle could make von Miller yesterdays big movie star.

[Gordo52]

9 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

What if the top 5 fell like this:

Titans:. Buckner

Browns:. Goff

Chargers:. Tunsil 

Cowboys:. Elliott

jaguars:. Jack

 

who do you take???

Ramsey without a doubt. 

[JoeyFlex5]

20 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

My man, Ray Rice wasn't good at pass pro. 

Was a solid 3rd down back though because he was great on dumpoffs and that made up quite a bit of our offense and our first downs, that's more what I was referring to, spoke too vaguely on that I guess lol

[Winchester]

17 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

 

Both Ramsey & Bosa and hope the NFL doesn't notice.

lol awesome!!

[ravensdan]

26 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Oh damn I forgot about Bosa. I just got so excited that Ramsey's name wasn't there. 

Haha. That was the point. Bosa or Ramsey?

[allblackraven]

59 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Maybe Elliott actually helps us score in the red zone and convert those short yard situations more frequently.

There's a better RB in the draft for those situations.

[ravensdan]

30 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Im in favor of a stallion back there with Joe Cool. Elliott is a stallion.  I like Dixon a lot as well!! I saw him carry the ball 5 times and said it would be awesome to get this guy in round3 if available. If ravens have retained KO, and draft Coleman or Thomas then draft Dixon the offense could maybe of been record breaking and ball control at same time. Or draft Elliott round1 in a trade down and Thomas or Fuller early round2 or even Braxton Miller.or trade back into late round1 for Thomas Doctson or Fuller. I know defense wins championships is the sexy trend after the Superbowl. Watching Von Miller humiliate non NFL caliber tackles on the way to the dance has league offices and fans in an uproar. He was impressive dominating patsies tackles that were practice squad guards week1. But I think a dominant OLine, legit receivers and a stallion runner in the huddle could make von Miller yesterdays big movie star.

Dixon is my second favorite back in the draft.  Of course he's no Elliott. The consolation to losing KO is this draft is deep in o lone talent. 

[GrimCoconut]

1 minute ago, allblackraven said:

There's a better RB in the draft for those situations.

Lol yeah I know you like Henry but I wouldn't take him until the 3rd round or later, personally. I'm just not a huge fan as I don't see him as a complete RB. 

[allblackraven]

2 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Lol yeah I know you like Henry but I wouldn't take him until the 3rd round or later, personally. I'm just not a huge fan as I don't see him as a complete RB. 

I would in the 2nd but I think there will be a team who takes a shot at him in 1st.

[JoeyFlex5]

16 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

There's a better RB in the draft for those situations.

Elliott won't get cracked in half because he's running upright. 

 

Henry will

 

Elliott is superior to Henry in every aspect.

[Jaybirds]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

If we took Elliott, i would be very frustrated, but I'd support it and would still be excited. I wanted Melvin Gordon or Gurley last year or hoped yeldon fell to our 2nd. 

 

I haven't seen such a polished back in a long time, he will be a pro bowl rookie, I'd be surprised if hdidn't crack 1000 regardless of his system. And I think He very well could be the next 1k/1k back because he is a stud for 3rd down, however, the league just isn't built for a heavy run game anymore, it's about a balanced attack and rbs are supposed to cost very little in terms of investment for the sake of having a well rounded roster and passing those savings on to your qb, so I doubt the investment is worth the return, especially 5 years down the road when he inevitably gets a fat contract and likely begins to decline. 

 

If you draft a rb this high when you have issues like LT and CB and edge rusher, you're essentially saying that we have a 5 year window to win another ring and this rb will be the reason we do so. Can time of possession make that much of a difference when we still desperately need a pass rusher and cb? Can our secondary perform like it did late last year? Can we generate pass rush with what we have? I'm not so sure, and I'm not sure that Elliott can do enough to offset these issues, even though I am certain he will be a stud.

I really like this post.  Agree or disagree, it's clear where you're coming from and how you came to a conclusion.  Thank you for that. 

I think you make a great point about the 5 year window.  The thing is, I think our free agent signings make it closer to a 2 year window.  That'd put Weddle into his 30s, Wallace a free agent, and probably the end of Watson, Suggs, and Doom. (maybe even Forsett).  And of course SSS has less time than that!  The front office made their Instant Coffee soundbyte.  We intentionally brought in clubhouse leaders. 

I know this is nuts for a 5-11 team.  But I think we're going for it right now. 

So if we're talking about guys who can jump right into a Super Bowl lineup, I think Elliott is a part of that conversation.  Other guys too, of course:  Ramsey, Bosa, Tunsil, and I'd say VHIII.  But yeah.  Elliott fits the lifecycle of our current roster. 

[SammyG]

I worry a bit about middle linebacker to be honest. I can't say realistically anyone would be available in the draft, but I would certainly like Myles Jack if he is there. Ultimately though, I am uncomfortable knowing that our middle linebacker corps are Mosley, Brown, Orr and Mcclellan. Now Mosley is the man and Orr looked good on 3rd down last season, but he is no Daryl Smith that's for sure. If we walk away with Jack, I think Ozzie would be a genius for adding so much speed a versatility to the defense and saving money on Smith, but if not, I'm not sure someone else like Brothers in the draft or Arthur Brown are ready to be the man this year.

[Dewy101]

2 minutes ago, SammyG said:

I worry a bit about middle linebacker to be honest. I can't say realistically anyone would be available in the draft, but I would certainly like Myles Jack if he is there. Ultimately though, I am uncomfortable knowing that our middle linebacker corps are Mosley, Brown, Orr and Mcclellan. Now Mosley is the man and Orr looked good on 3rd down last season, but he is no Daryl Smith that's for sure. If we walk away with Jack, I think Ozzie would be a genius for adding so much speed a versatility to the defense and saving money on Smith, but if not, I'm not sure someone else like Brothers in the draft or Arthur Brown are ready to be the man this year.

PFF graded Daryl Smith as the worst player on our defense last season. Orr actually graded out positively in a limited number of snaps. Looking at our past success of undrafted linebackers I wouldn't be too worried if we don't land Jack. 

[52520Andrew]

4 hours ago, ravensdan said:

Haha. That was the point. Bosa or Ramsey?

I'd go Bosa but that is a really tough one. My #2 and #3 players respectively

[52520Andrew]

1 hour ago, Dewy101 said:

PFF graded Daryl Smith as the worst player on our defense last season. Orr actually graded out positively in a limited number of snaps. Looking at our past success of undrafted linebackers I wouldn't be too worried if we don't land Jack. 

Plenty of players grade positively in limited snaps and then vanish. Melvin graded positively in limited snaps at one point. As for Orr, do you know anything in particular about the grades? Was he better at run support? Coverage? I know none of our backup LBs looked good in the preseason last year and that we got beat over the middle of the field for a good chunk of the season.