[News] Late For Work 2/29: Ravens And Joe Flacco 'Close' To New Deal

[RavensDieHard21]

I am about 90% convinced that our first pick will be either Jack or Buckner, with the slightest chance that Bosa slides. I also see Spence being knocked back into the 20's, if not maybe, just maybe the second round where he could be a steal as he still is battling controversy during interviews. His play on the field is undeniable so I would say he would be worth it.

[rmcjacket23]

16 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I am about 90% convinced that our first pick will be either Jack or Buckner, with the slightest chance that Bosa slides. I also see Spence being knocked back into the 20's, if not maybe, just maybe the second round where he could be a steal as he still is battling controversy during interviews. His play on the field is undeniable so I would say he would be worth it.

If we whiff on KO, I'd say its at least a 50% chance that we take someone like Stanley at #6.

I just don't see how the team goes into the draft with Monroe and nobody else at LT. Its possible they cut Monroe even if we whiff on KO, in which case we literally wouldn't have a LT on the roster other than Hurst.

[bioLarzen]

3 hours ago, jravens13 said:

Watch the Trent Richardson video. We might have found an incredibly hungry RB who wants to prove everyone wrong and make it.

He may be incredibly hungry - the main problem will still remain: that he never showed that his skillset as a RB warrants him a roster spot in the NFL. He can be the hungriest player on earth if he's not good enough...

That said, at least he'll have a chance to prove himself. Typical Ozzie-move to bring him in: almost no risk, so any kind of gain he may offer us is a plus. If he fails to do some magic, the worst thing that happens is that he fills a roster spot for the summer...

Edited February 29, 2016 by bioLarzen

[Ravenous_Ravens]

After the combine results so far, I have to say I'm a bit disappointed with some of the prospects people have been raving about. No that they are terrible, just not quite were you want to see them to justify a #6 pick IMHO. At this point I'm actually leaning towards Myles Jack with the #6 pick. The guy is just a pure athlete all around, better then even Jalen Ramsey by a nudge. IMHO "best player available". Although he was more a chaser type Will, I do think he has the ability to develop his pass rush. This man can cover, which carries more value in todays pass happy league, and is a tackling machine. D Smith is great for now, but we could use another solid ILB to pair with Mosley moving forward. A.Brown has not really shown enough to be comfortable moving forward with him as a reliable starter. Solidifying the middle of the field with a stud LB'er will greatly improve pass coverage, helping both the secondary and the pass rush up front. He can also play a number of positions, (LB, RB, FS, Special Teams returner) giving coaches flexibility where and how they use him. I would stick him at LB mainly, but use him for other positions in certain situations due to his natural athleticism. For WR, I would also still lean towards Sterling Shepard for the right WR for the Ravens. Bit of a sleeper pick maybe, but he tested very well, has great hands and YAC ability to work out of the slot. His 40 time for being a shorter WR was ok. Really you don't ask him to be the regular deep threat, but he can run those routes occasionally. He actually out benched a number of WR's and LB's which I found telling for a much smaller player size wise. I also think the Ravens could grab him early third round, or even trade back for another 4th rounder possibly and still draft him.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

  2 hours ago, fusuymada said:

I can see KO testing the market just to see. I doubt anyone will give him full left tackle money after only a couple games, but they will pay him top guard money where he has proven he is a pro bowl player. But, as is said over and over, it only takes one team with a great need and a lot of cap space to throw the moon at KO and he would be silly to turn it down. Yes, he was drafted here, won a super bowl here, loves being here, and may think the money is fair here, but a competitive team might offer him some good money. But, in my eyes, it would depend where the money was coming from. If the Browns or Jags offered me anything I would take the Ravens offer no matter.

That is the thing, barely any competitive teams have the ample cap space to pay a guard north of $10 million a year, unless they're sold that he will be a LT, but that is still mercy. I think that the 49ers, Jags, Eagles and Titans have some of the most space so they might just throw a boatload at him. I pray he stays here, but I see a sneaky 49ers or Eagles team throwing a big number at him.

Your right on point. KO's body of work is at G, not LT. He did show promise at LT but any team willing to make him an offer will need to be certain of his ability to play the position long term. A bit of a risk. It makes more sense that these teams interested would look at drafting a LT and save their dollars for paying future contracts. Rookie contracts are cheap by comparison. Titans are the only team I've heard say they do not want another rookie lineman as their o-line is fairly young and inexperienced still. Still hoping KO stays, but if he leaves wish him good luck.

[fusuymada]

I hate to comment twice on the same article but while talking combine, Ramsey blew it up today. He is clearly the best defensive player and possibly the best player overall in this draft. San Diego is wanting out of the third spot and Jacksonville will take him at the fifth spot if we don't move up. I know what Ozzie has always done and being reactive in the draft has served Ozzie well by waiting and seeing what happens. However, we are rarely able to pick this high and rarely does a talent like Ramsey pop up, especially since he matches a need we have. I think the time to be proactive has finally come. We need to take this draft and get what we need instead of letting the draft dictate what our picks are. I know I am repetitive, I know I am beating a dead horse, I know I have been singing the praises of Ramsey, but as this offseason continues on, just how good he is and how well he would fit in our system is becoming clearer. I think it would be an absolute horrible decision to allow Jacksonville to punish Ramsey by selecting him in the draft when he clearly would rather be here (actually anywhere but Jacksonville.)

[balfan23]

43 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

If we whiff on KO, I'd say its at least a 50% chance that we take someone like Stanley at #6.

I just don't see how the team goes into the draft with Monroe and nobody else at LT. Its possible they cut Monroe even if we whiff on KO, in which case we literally wouldn't have a LT on the roster other than Hurst.

This appears to be a slight change in stance from your commentary a month or so ago. I believe your sentiments were, we needed a better backup than Hurst and an eventual replacement for Monroe, but that we wouldn't expend the #6 on Monroe's replacement. Probably would look to the 2nd round to get this player.

I too have had a change of heart. I thought the first pick was defense, even when I thought KO was going to be allowed to walk. The reason for that change is, I think the FO is telling us their trust in Monroe is even lower than I thought it would be. I really hope that we can land KO, because I'd just prefer to see us grab a defensive stud (hopefully someone qualifies) with that #6. However, I'm bracing for the possibility that FA hits and some team comes along and blows us out of the water with a huge offer. 

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

This appears to be a slight change in stance from your commentary a month or so ago. I believe your sentiments were, we needed a better backup than Hurst and an eventual replacement for Monroe, but that we wouldn't expend the #6 on Monroe's replacement. Probably would look to the 2nd round to get this player.

I too have had a change of heart. I thought the first pick was defense, even when I thought KO was going to be allowed to walk. The reason for that change is, I think the FO is telling us their trust in Monroe is even lower than I thought it would be. I really hope that we can land KO, because I'd just prefer to see us grab a defensive stud (hopefully someone qualifies) with that #6. However, I'm bracing for the possibility that FA hits and some team comes along and blows us out of the water with a huge offer. 

My stance changed primarily because it just smells to me like a divorce between us and Monroe is coming one way or another. I just have zero faith he's going to be on the roster come September, and given I don't think we'll be able to keep KO, I think we are staring directly at a draft pick as the most likely starting LT in 2016.

I suppose its possible that the FO bypasses one at #6, but only if Stanley and Tunsil are both gone, and even then I think its a huge gamble on our part to force a 2nd round or later pick into a starting role, unless they honestly feel like Hurst can do it (this would stun me).

The only possible "outside of the box" type scenario that I didn't foresee happening but could in theory now is us cutting Monroe and getting a "value" LT in FA (a Kelvin Beachum, Russell Okung-type), though I'd consider that to be the least likely scenario.

Either way, if I'm the FO and I whiff on KO, I'd argue that finding long-term stability at LT is the single biggest concern this team has right now and in the future, particularly when we know Joe is signing an extension to keep him here for another 5-6 years at least and he's coming off a major injury.

Plus, given what I've seen so far I think the FO likes their chances of adding a quality pass rusher/corner in day 2 of the draft more than they do of adding a quality LT in day 2 of the draft. We know that, historically, practically all of the quality LTs in this league are first round picks.

[balfan23]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

My stance changed primarily because it just smells to me like a divorce between us and Monroe is coming one way or another.

Yep - I wasn't sure how the FO was going to view Monroe, but I think their message has been pretty clear. It will be even clearer if they start to show that they're willing to come up from whatever this "aggressive" offer is to KO, as other teams start bidding him up. 

[The Greek]

i wonder what the magic # is for the front office as far as osemele is concerned. trent williams avg. per year is 13 mil, tyron smith 12mil. joe thomas 11.5 mil, 4 players in the 10 mil range. if osemele and his agent want more than 13 mil than i hope they stick with monroe and draft stanley at #6

[jravens13]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

2 hours ago, jravens13 said:

It is called gambling on the present and sacrificing the future. We could have paid Flacco more upfront and let other guys walk. We chose to keep a team together that wasn't good enough to get it done. Flacco is now going to be overpaid for the next 6 years because of this mistake. 

Well, in reality, it has nothing to do with how much Joe got paid, because Joe got paid very handsomely in the last three years ($62M of $120.6M in the last three years). Joe himself made $30M in year 1 (2013) of his deal and another $21M in year 2 (2014), so from an actual cash received standpoint, that deal is more front loaded than back loaded from Joe's perspective.

It is from a salary cap perspective only that the deal was backloaded, which I agree was a mistake, but not for the reason you think it was.

As it were, I definitely don't buy this notion of "pay him more and let other guys walk", because I really can't think of any player we kept and should have let walk because of Joe's deal. You do realize that the biggest knock on the FO has been letting TOO MANY players walk in the last three years as opposed to trying to keep the band together right?

How quick you are to forget the "purge" of 2013, that started practically days after our SB victory. We pretty much took the entire defense from our SB run and took a butchers knife to it in a single offseason, and that was with Joe only carrying a roughly $7M cap number that season.

Please provide me a list of the players that we kept that you think we should have cut by increasing Joe's cap number in the last three years. Not saying there aren't any, but I can't think of any significant one's off the top of my head.

Flacco won't be overpaid for the next six years... his cap number and the amount he will get is going to be an accurate reflection of what is NOW the market value for said QBs.

 

Take the hits as they come. If we can't retain guys that is just part of the business. You win through the draft and keeping core leaders together. Yanda, Flacco and Suggs were the only guys we had to retain since 2013. McPhee could be in that equation as well. The rest of were expendable. KO would be another, but it seems like the Flacco deal could get in the way.

Don't handicap your future for what you can have today from a roster standpoint. It is the base salary that they backloaded for Flacco.
What if they did: 1M, 9M, 9M, 23M, 25M, 25M
What they should have done: 9M, 14M, 16M, 17M, 18M, 18M

We reached for guys that screwed up our salary cap. When you miss on guys and backload the contract it only amplifies your mistakes: Pitta, Webb, Monroe, and (Flacco Backload) are all reasons why we are tight on the cap now. Rice falls off the books next year but that contract was much more appropriate.

We have lost more talent than we gained through free agency yet we have less cap space because of some of these hindering contracts. We could be bringing in impact Free Agents if we were more disciplined fiscally.

Edited February 29, 2016 by jravens13

[RavensDieHard21]

55 minutes ago, fusuymada said:

I hate to comment twice on the same article but while talking combine, Ramsey blew it up today. He is clearly the best defensive player and possibly the best player overall in this draft. San Diego is wanting out of the third spot and Jacksonville will take him at the fifth spot if we don't move up. I know what Ozzie has always done and being reactive in the draft has served Ozzie well by waiting and seeing what happens. However, we are rarely able to pick this high and rarely does a talent like Ramsey pop up, especially since he matches a need we have. I think the time to be proactive has finally come. We need to take this draft and get what we need instead of letting the draft dictate what our picks are. I know I am repetitive, I know I am beating a dead horse, I know I have been singing the praises of Ramsey, but as this offseason continues on, just how good he is and how well he would fit in our system is becoming clearer. I think it would be an absolute horrible decision to allow Jacksonville to punish Ramsey by selecting him in the draft when he clearly would rather be here (actually anywhere but Jacksonville.)

Even though it is three spot difference, I still feel it will cost us at minimum a second round pick, more likely a first though. I think that Ramsey will be a stud and I am sure he would love to be here, but unless it is a manageable trade, I don't see us passing on another elite prospect such as Jack or Buckner as well as a solid round two gem or future first rounder. Plus I think Dallas might get nervous thinking they might not get him and trade with them anyway.

[RavensDieHard21]

16 minutes ago, The Greek said:

i wonder what the magic # is for the front office as far as osemele is concerned. trent williams avg. per year is 13 mil, tyron smith 12mil. joe thomas 11.5 mil, 4 players in the 10 mil range. if osemele and his agent want more than 13 mil than i hope they stick with monroe and draft stanley at #6

I am positive it is somewhere in the $8 - $10 million a year, more likely the lower end of that with more guaranteed money. I keep praying he stays, but we cannot afford a penny over $10 million even if he is our LT.

[billiejean]

i wonder what the magic # is for the front office as far as osemele is concerned. trent williams avg. per year is 13 mil, tyron smith 12mil. joe thomas 11.5 mil, 4 players in the 10 mil range. if osemele and his agent want more than 13 mil than i hope they stick with monroe and draft stanley at #6

I wouldn't pay him more than 10mil. He should't be getting as much as the Left Tackles that you have named. They are the proven, elite left tackles in the league. A guy that has only played 4 games at the position shouldn't expect to make as much as them.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, jravens13 said:

Take the hits as they come. If we can't retain guys that is just part of the business. You win through the draft and keeping core leaders together. Yanda, Flacco and Suggs resign since 2013. The rest of were expendable. KO would be another, but it seems like the Flacco deal could get in the way.

Don't handicap your future for what you can have today from a roster standpoint. It is the base salary that they backloaded for Flacco.
1M, 9M, 9M, 23M, 25M, 25M What if they did:
9M, 14M, 16M, 17M, 18M, 18M

We reached for guys that screwed up our salary cap. When you miss on guys and backload the contract it only amplifies your mistakes: Pitta, Webb, Monroe, and (Flacco Backload) are all reasons why we are tight on the cap now. Rice falls off the books next year but that contract was much more appropriate.

We have lost more talent than we gained through free agency yet we have less cap space because of some of these hindering contracts. We could be bringing in impact Free Agents if we were more disciplined fiscally.

OK, but you're not making any valid points. Who, specifically, were expendable that we retained? Pitta's deal looks bad because of an injury, Webb's deal was signed long before Flacco's was, and Monroe's deal is bad because he's hurt and not very good. But none of those contracts were affected by Joe's either, and we let countless "expendable" players walk out the door, precisely as you wanted them to do.

No idea where you got your numbers from in terms of backloading salaries, but your numbers are wrong. This is what Joe's actual SALARY numbers look like:

$1M, $6M, $4M, $18M, $20.6M, $20M. The problem with your explanation, however, is that if you add up those six numbers, you'll find that only adds up to $69.6M, which means you're missing $51M as part of the deal. Where is that $51M? Well, that would be in the form of three different bonuses ($29M in 2013, $15M in 2014, $7M in 2015). Those are what largely are driving up the latter part of his cap hits, since they get prorated over the remaining life of the deal.

The biggest elephant in the room that you are not addressing is... under what scenario are the Baltimore Ravens a better football team in 2013, 2014, 2015, or 2016 if Joe's cap structure was "flatter"? Or better yet, ask yourself this...

Is Elvis Dumervil here if Joe has a $15-20M cap hit in 2013? How could we have afforded him? Is Steve Smith here if Joe has a $20M cap hit in 2014? How could we have afforded him?

I'm also a bit confused by the stance of "you win through the draft and keeping core leaders together" (which I agree with), but then later on you want us to spend significant cap space on impact free agents, which hasn't worked historically for winning franchises. So which one are you advocating?

Again, this just circles back to more hindsight analysis from fans that don't have the foresight to see these things until they happen. The Ravens basically have, for the last three years, adopted the strategy you claim to advocate... resign our own "core" players, let non-essentially players walk in FA, and focus on the draft. The problem is that you are now also bashing that strategy because you see it hasn't been working.

 

 

[jravens13]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

OK, but you're not making any valid points. Who, specifically, were expendable that we retained? Pitta's deal looks bad because of an injury, Webb's deal was signed long before Flacco's was, and Monroe's deal is bad because he's hurt and not very good. But none of those contracts were affected by Joe's either, and we let countless "expendable" players walk out the door, precisely as you wanted them to do.

No idea where you got your numbers from in terms of backloading salaries, but your numbers are wrong. This is what Joe's actual SALARY numbers look like:

$1M, $6M, $4M, $18M, $20.6M, $20M. The problem with your explanation, however, is that if you add up those six numbers, you'll find that only adds up to $69.6M, which means you're missing $51M as part of the deal. Where is that $51M? Well, that would be in the form of three different bonuses ($29M in 2013, $15M in 2014, $7M in 2015). Those are what largely are driving up the latter part of his cap hits, since they get prorated over the remaining life of the deal.

The biggest elephant in the room that you are not addressing is... under what scenario are the Baltimore Ravens a better football team in 2013, 2014, 2015, or 2016 if Joe's cap structure was "flatter"? Or better yet, ask yourself this...

Is Elvis Dumervil here if Joe has a $15-20M cap hit in 2013? How could we have afforded him? Is Steve Smith here if Joe has a $20M cap hit in 2014? How could we have afforded him?

I'm also a bit confused by the stance of "you win through the draft and keeping core leaders together" (which I agree with), but then later on you want us to spend significant cap space on impact free agents, which hasn't worked historically for winning franchises. So which one are you advocating?

Again, this just circles back to more hindsight analysis from fans that don't have the foresight to see these things until they happen. The Ravens basically have, for the last three years, adopted the strategy you claim to advocate... resign our own "core" players, let non-essentially players walk in FA, and focus on the draft. The problem is that you are now also bashing that strategy because you see it hasn't been working.

 

 

My point is that we would have more room NOW. To make impact moves in Free Agency, and for the next 6 years. To retain the must keep guys. McPhee is the only guy we should have resigned at the right price, but it seems that didn't work out. We should not have paid Webb what we spent on him. We should not have paid Pitta even close to what we paid. Monroe was a bargain in terms of what you commit to a LT, but clearly Jacksonville knew he wasn't that great. 

 

If we didn't have Dumervil don't you think we would have drafted another pass rusher? Dumervil isn't even a 3 down player. SSR was a bargain at 3M a year and he would have made it on this team regardless. 

 

I like how you tell me my numbers were wrong. You are forgetting to include the option bonus which Flacco collects every year he comes back on the deal. Check spotrac again. You clearly don't get it. Internet arguments are so stupid. 

[rmcjacket23]

13 minutes ago, jravens13 said:

My point is that we would have more room NOW. To make impact moves in Free Agency, and for the next 6 years. To retain the must keep guys. McPhee is the only guy we should have resigned at the right price, but it seems that didn't work out. We should not have paid Webb what we spent on him. We should not have paid Pitta even close to what we paid. Monroe was a bargain in terms of what you commit to a LT, but clearly Jacksonville knew he wasn't that great. 

 

If we didn't have Dumervil don't you think we would have drafted another pass rusher? Dumervil isn't even a 3 down player. SSR was a bargain at 3M a year and he would have made it on this team regardless. 

 

I like how you tell me my numbers were wrong. You are forgetting to include the option bonus which Flacco collects every year he comes back on the deal. Check spotrac again. You clearly don't get it. Internet arguments are so stupid. 

LOL, No, the problem is you don't know how to read Spotrac. The option bonus column, much like the signing bonus column, is NOT paid every year. That is merely the Ravens prorated portion of an already paid option bonus that is recognized by the Ravens salary cap ONLY in that given year.

To prove this, click on the Cash Earnings tab on the Spotrac page. As you will see, there is nothing under option bonus, signing bonus, or any other bonus from 2016-2018, and that's because those bonuses have already been paid.

Joe got a $29M signing bonus in year 2013. He received 100% of that amount in 2013, however the Ravens prorate that amount over five years, thus you see the $5.8M figure under the signing bonus colum from 2013-2017 (29/5 = $5.8M)

Joe got a $15M option bonus in year 2014. He received 100% of that amount in 2014, however the Ravens prorate that amount over five years, thus you see the $3M figure under the option bonus column from 2014-2018 (15/5 = $3M)

Joe got a $7M option bonus in year 2015. He received 100% of that amount in 2015, however the Ravens prorate that amount over four years, thus you see the $4.75M figure under the option bonus column from 2015-2018 (7/4 = $1.75M)

Hint: if you want to find out how much actual CASH a player is getting any given year, click the "Cash Earnings" tab. Cash Earnings and Salary Cap Hits are NOT the same thing.

Joe's cap hit for 2016 is $28.55M. $18M is actually for 2016... the other $10.55M is prorated portions of signing bonuses that he was paid in the past.

As for having more cap space NOW, sure, we would. But why weren't you complaining about us having too much cap space the last three years when Joe's hits were so low? Why did you wait until his cap hit ballooned in order to complain about it, despite the fact that you (allegedly) already knew what his cap structure was?

Maybe we did draft another rusher... what makes you think he would be better than Dumervil? Are you assuming that Dumervil-level pass rushers just fall out of the sky and you can just get one in the draft anytime you want?

Edited February 29, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[Purple Dawg 96]

Good to see Coach Brooks smiling! SALUTE!

[JimmyBlack]

5 hours ago, fusuymada said:

I can see KO testing the market just to see. I doubt anyone will give him full left tackle money after only a couple games, but they will pay him top guard money where he has proven he is a pro bowl player. But, as is said over and over, it only takes one team with a great need and a lot of cap space to throw the moon at KO and he would be silly to turn it down. Yes, he was drafted here, won a super bowl here, loves being here, and may think the money is fair here, but a competitive team might offer him some good money. But, in my eyes, it would depend where the money was coming from. If the Browns or Jags offered me anything I would take the Ravens offer no matter.

He's a good blocking guard but he's no Yanda.

[Purple Dawg 96]

The Ravens will do what's rite to win in regards to drafting etc it's all up to Joe! Either we get "shoulder shrugs or touchdowns! This team beat the hottest team in football with backups! If Joe leads this team like he supposed to it would help the Ravens save millions! The Ravens won with backups on Offense! All this money stuff don't matter if the players aren't utilized correctly!

[WNC-Raven]

  2 hours ago, The Greek said:

i wonder what the magic # is for the front office as far as osemele is concerned. trent williams avg. per year is 13 mil, tyron smith 12mil. joe thomas 11.5 mil, 4 players in the 10 mil range. if osemele and his agent want more than 13 mil than i hope they stick with monroe and draft stanley at #6

I wouldn't pay him more than 10mil. He should't be getting as much as the Left Tackles that you have named. They are the proven, elite left tackles in the league. A guy that has only played 4 games at the position shouldn't expect to make as much as them.

Exactly, signing KO would put a huge smile on my face but over paying a player that has said in the past doesnt want to play LT would be nonsense. Anyone see turn style Oher in the Super Bowl last year?
If KO walks we should draft Stanley and move on.

[JimmyBlack]

Ramsey, Bosa, Buckner, or Jack would be nice.

[purpledown]

Bosa just might be there at No 6, i know Spence will be, Bosa is being overhyped. Everyone should have known that KO is gone, as well as Upshaw. They have the player they really wanted in Tucker. The question is whether they will extend a guy like Brandon Williams before his contract is up.