Overrated!

[ravensnation5220]

Didnt see a forum on this so decided to create one. Here you can post any prospect who you think is overrated try to find some articles to add to your case. Heres mine:

Joey bosa-some people see him as a first overall pick. I dont think he has that upside and this article perfectly illustrated the all the flaws you see on tape with him, and those flaws continue to show up on the tape when i went back to take a look.

 https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nfl/2016/2/25/11059596/2016-nfl-draft-profile-joey-bosa-ohio-state-defensive-end-breakdown?client=ms-android-metropcs-us&espv=1#fpstate=amp_viewer

 

Whats your take on this? Who else do you think is overrated? Let the debate begin. 

[JoeyFlex5]

I think this person is viewing bosa in the wrong light. Dude is not a speed rusher, he is a supremely powerfully and refined defensive lineman who can do it all at a high level. 

 

Expecting to see him explode to the corner and bend the edge every time is just unwise, if you want that go watch noah spence. Bosa is gonna line up all over the place and wreak havoc everywhere with immense skill to penetrate in multiple ways and great pursuit and play recognition. 

 

Very narrow minded article.

[RaineV1]

He could be right. Bosa might be far better as an interior rusher than he is as a edge rushers, especially for a 3-4.

[Baltimore RAYvens]

The more I watch Bosa the more I see him fitting perfectly for us. He'll play a DE/LB hybrid like Suggs does. He has the power and finesse to play on the line and be able to diagnose/disengage, but also has the speed to be able to fly around the corner from time to time. What I like most about him is he has the disengage ability where he should be able to develop some secondary and counter moves that he can go to when he gets stopped initially. 

All prospects are going to look really bad when you pigeon hole them into a specific role and only look at certain aspects. That's what makes Bosa great is his general all around game

[JoeyFlex5]

7 minutes ago, Baltimore RAYvens said:

The more I watch Bosa the more I see him fitting perfectly for us. He'll play a DE/LB hybrid like Suggs does. He has the power and finesse to play on the line and be able to diagnose/disengage, but also has the speed to be able to fly around the corner from time to time. What I like most about him is he has the disengage ability where he should be able to develop some secondary and counter moves that he can go to when he gets stopped initially. 

All prospects are going to look really bad when you pigeon hole them into a specific role and only look at certain aspects. That's what makes Bosa great is his general all around game

Spot on really. If someone analyzes Vic Beasley as a 5tech then he would be a 5th rounder. 

 

The problem is overvaluing and undervaluing of certain assets, speed being overvalued while true skill and power are undervalued. Bosas sophomore campaign didn't just happen out of luck...

[Winchester]

Boss has more burst and flexibility than he shows most of the time. Everybody will see it at the combine. His style just did not call for him to bend much or try to get a jump.  There were a couple plays he showed play that can not be performed without pretty good flexibility\explosion. He will show at combine.

[thieverycorporation]

Problem I see with Bosa is he reminds me of the J. Clowney signing. Allot to like, with really no other upside. I would have to make his living doing just what he's done in college. I don't think it will last.  He's not the ideal pick.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

Boss has more burst and flexibility than he shows most of the time. Everybody will see it at the combine. His style just did not call for him to bend much or try to get a jump.  There were a couple plays he showed play that can not be performed without pretty good flexibility\explosion. He will show at combine.

I definitely don't like his flexibility, I think it's a real concern and I hope he can work on his shoulder dip to counteract the stiff hips when bending the edge, but I think stuff like that really just lowers his ceiling but doesn't affect his floor, and his floor is still top 5 in this class.

[Winchester]

6 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I definitely don't like his flexibility, I think it's a real concern and I hope he can work on his shoulder dip to counteract the stiff hips when bending the edge, but I think stuff like that really just lowers his ceiling but doesn't affect his floor, and his floor is still top 5 in this class.

He is more flexible than most of his tape shows. There is particular things he has done that shows it. He will very likely show up a little more flexible and twitchy burst than everybody is saying. 

[Cillmatic]

Bosa would be a waste on a 3-4 team like ours; he might be great on a 4-3 D though.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

Bosa would be a waste on a 3-4 team like ours; he might be great on a 4-3 D though.

Incredible that you would post a massive exaggeration like this...

[GrimCoconut]

10 hours ago, thieverycorporation said:

Problem I see with Bosa is he reminds me of the J. Clowney signing. Allot to like, with really no other upside. I would have to make his living doing just what he's done in college. I don't think it will last.  He's not the ideal pick.

Some people here know I didn't like Clowney much because I felt like he was lazy and got by off athleticism. I don't see the same concerns with Bosa. Bosa is probably the opposite of Clowney in nearly every way. 

3 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

Bosa would be a waste on a 3-4 team like ours; he might be great on a 4-3 D though.

No he won't. We run enough 4-3 that it wouldn't even matter if it did matter. 

[52520Andrew]

Bosa would be as much a waste in our system as McPhee was... wait McPhee was great with us in 2014

[Winchester]

9 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I definitely don't like his flexibility, I think it's a real concern and I hope he can work on his shoulder dip to counteract the stiff hips when bending the edge, but I think stuff like that really just lowers his ceiling but doesn't affect his floor, and his floor is still top 5 in this class.

 The writer of that article is a moron!! Most players are above average for the nfl?? lol Bosa is more flexible and twitchy than he often shows.will put his twitch\flexibility on display at combine

[RavensDieHard21]

Bosa might slightly lack the ability to bend the corner at times, but being trained at the pro level could really help him with that. His greatest upside is that he is ideal size for the hybrid OLB/DE position and he has great instincts as well as bull rush moves. His abilities to disengage blockers with his hands is great and his upside in our system is far too hard to refute so I realistically find it hard to believe in these pessimistic writers....

[Tru11]

Bosa looks similar to Watt to me then someone like suggs tbh although i dont think he has the same ceiling as Watt, he could have a similar impact.

[Cillmatic]

18 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

Bosa would be as much a waste in our system as McPhee was... wait McPhee was great with us in 2014

Have you seen Mcphee's draft profile? He was projected as being a fine 3-4 run stuffer. Bosa has ZERO experience in a 3-4 defense. You can just look at his playing style and see that he's not gonna fit in here. 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Cillmatic

[Willbacker]

50 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

Have you seen Mcphee's draft profile? He was projected as being a fine 3-4 run stuffer. Bosa has ZERO experience in a 3-4 defense. You can just look at his playing style and see that he's not gonna fit in here. 

Bosa faced quite a few double and triple teams so he's faced muck before. Very adept at stopping the run and rushing the passer. Can he not adapt??

[Winchester]

Ran 4.89. He was running low 4.7 last week in preps. But when you get a college party animal up before sunrise that is what happens lol. But in the drills he will show more flexibility and burst than what most scouts are saying. There is particular things he has done in his play that shown it. He just has not used it in his play style and what he is asked to do.

[Winchester]

You can see bosa is no an early morning guy!! But still looked fluid and sudden jumping off the ground. Very young as well. Will fill out to about 285 

[Cillmatic]

Bosa's falling all over the place. He doesn't look like a 3-4 OLB, too stiff.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Cillmatic

[ellicottraven]

Shaq Lawson just ran 4.73 just now/!

[ravensnation5220]

1 hour ago, Cillmatic said:

Bosa's falling all over the place. He doesn't look like a 3-4 OLB, too stiff.

Agreed. Too robotic in his movement, wasnt as fluid as id like to see. Seems like a guy who needs yo play on the line. I dont trust him in space

[ALPHA]

20 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Agreed. Too robotic in his movement, wasnt as fluid as id like to see. Seems like a guy who needs yo play on the line. I dont trust him in space

He's a far better pass rusher than edge setters like JJ and Upshaw

[52520Andrew]

5 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

Have you seen Mcphee's draft profile? He was projected as being a fine 3-4 run stuffer. Bosa has ZERO experience in a 3-4 defense. You can just look at his playing style and see that he's not gonna fit in here. 

I don't care what McPhee was projected to be, he was a run stuffing OLB for us who moved inside on nickel amd was a great pass rusher from the inside. He then did so well in that role that the Bears gave him 8 mil per off one year of production. Bosa can fit that role just fine.

[outkast1]

On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 2:46 AM, thieverycorporation said:

Problem I see with Bosa is he reminds me of the J. Clowney signing. Allot to like, with really no other upside. I would have to make his living doing just what he's done in college. I don't think it will last.  He's not the ideal pick.

You are on point ! Bosa won't last with just a power rush in the NFL. My favorite guy is Noah Spence but his drug problem makes him a bad pick at 1st or 2nd round.

Edited February 28, 2016 by outkast1
spelling

[52520Andrew]

7 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

Have you seen Mcphee's draft profile? He was projected as being a fine 3-4 run stuffer. Bosa has ZERO experience in a 3-4 defense. You can just look at his playing style and see that he's not gonna fit in here. 

Also should mention that Zadarius Smith and Carl Davis both played in a 4-3 in college. And Suggs, and many other guys. Spence and Nkemdiche play in a 4-3 as well. What is even funnier is that Mississippi State runs a 4-3 defense and did when McPhee played. 

[Italian Raven]

6 hours ago, Willbacker said:

Bosa faced quite a few double and triple teams so he's faced muck before. Very adept at stopping the run and rushing the passer. Can he not adapt??

I don't know who started the "triple-teamed" stuff first, but I doubt that person has watched the games completely unbiased. 
I've watched 7 OSU games and wrote down every position he lined up and every match-up he faced.. I didn't see 1 triple-team.
2014                    #snaps                 DoubleTeams            Unblocked
Clemson:              54                               5 (9%)                     4 (7%)
MSU:                     78                            13 (17%)                   1 (1%) 
Michigan (didn't finish it):  
2015
Hawaii:                   38                              5 (13%)                   1 (3%)
Penn St:                 49                              2 (4%)                     1 (2%)
Indiana:                  91                             10 (11%)                  8 (9%)                                   
MSU:                      65                               6 (9%)                    9 (14%)

Now, I'm not going to say he wasn't an impactful player; teams had to adjust to his presence.
He has an awesome punch and he might be very valuable playing the two gaps, controlling his man and patiently reading the play. He also has a good set of moves and he will be dangerous as an inside rusher.. no doubt.
But there have been many times he struggled on the edge: he took a line and because of his balance (today he proved to be a little bit of a leaner) he was easily pushed off the play creating a hole.
So, while he played many positions one can advocate that, because of his relative stiffness and balance, he might not fare as well rushing the passer from the outside than from inside.. that he's simply better playing 2-3-4 T rather than 5-6 or Leo.
 

[ellicottraven]

After seeing the combine for the first 3 days, I must say I’m more confused than ever. I would like to see how the DBs perform tomorrow to see Ramsey and VH3 in particular. All in all, I don’t feel like we have a generational talent out there. The only thing about this draft is the depth available on the D-line. Incredible really. Myles Jack is very good and Bosa is very good but not sensational. As for Spence, he is the dark horse. Don’t really know what to make of him quite yet and if he deserves to be picked at 6. Stanley on the other hand looks like a safe bet. He isn’t very strong but moves like a butterfly. He can get strong with our off season strength program. We may very well end up with VH3 if he performs and runs really well tomorrow.

[Willbacker]

29 minutes ago, Italian Raven said:

I don't know who started the "triple-teamed" stuff first, but I doubt that person has watched the games completely unbiased. 
I've watched 7 OSU games and wrote down every position he lined up and every match-up he faced.. I didn't see 1 triple-team.
 

Ahhhh man you couldn't let me slide that in there lol. I do see him more as a 3-4 DE and on the line in general moreso than playing in space.