[News] Late For Work 2/26: Ravens Shock Media, Details Of Kelechi Osemele Offer

[Ravenous_Ravens]

  4 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

KO's offer and the expected rework of Flacco's deal cannot possibly be connected: KO's offer has been made already, while the Flacco-talks haven't even begun. So, the possible extra cap space gained by the reworked Flacco-deal cannot be the base of the KO-offer. No sane GM would take such an extra cap-space for granted until the contract is signed and sealed.

TBH, I cannot comprehend how any kind of serious offer to KO could be possible - I mean one that would even make KO think about it seriously. Seriously baffling. If the offer was, indeed, anywhere close to competitive and KO accepts it - which is, although improbable, Ozzie cannot afford to disregard as a possibility - the Flacco deal will have to be redone, the "going on with Joe's current cap figure" will no longer be a bossible, let alone a viable option.

Well, I guess that's why I'm not the Ravens' GM and Ozzie is

I think that this offer to KO is definitely connected to the Flacco negotiations. They're essentially telling Linta that he's being held to his comment in 2013 that Flacco's was essentially a 3-year contract, because if KO accepts their offer they will not be able to pay Flacco at his current cap hit. Which is smart, because Flacco is not worth a $29M cap hit. So it's a way to insert some leverage into a place where they had very little - the only leverage they really had before is that Joe's injury  status is a big question mark. And it makes Ozzie's remark (that they're going to make moves regardless of Flacco's status) truthful; i.e. Ozzie is putting his money where his mouth is.

Plus, if the Flacco negotiations fail, it would be better to know that before the draft. It's not like Ozzie would be afraid of losing Flacco - he won a super bowl with Dilfer, after all.

Besides which, KO is a monster and the Ravens would be fools to let him go without at least an offer. And I think what Harbaugh said about it is good: the Ravens have a certain atmosphere and mentality that KO is a part of and buys into, and if he's willing to stay in that environment for a little less money - like Yanda did - that's a win.

IMHO you nailed it! There are no clear moves, but many smaller conditional moves available. Going about negotiations like this just means the Ravens aren't backed into a corner with no leverage/options. It will ultimately come down to where the players involved sit. I'm hoping K.O. realizes there have not been too many ex Ravens players to leave via FA and enjoy the same level of success. Just saying, that would matter to me.

[JacktheRaven]

Joe's contract has nothing to do with The ravens signing the players they want. If The Ravens want to keep you, they will.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, JacktheRaven said:

Joe's contract has nothing to do with The ravens signing the players they want. If The Ravens want to keep you, they will.

Yes, but it still requires them to cut certain players. Make no mistake... the Ravens don't keep 100% of the players they want to.

[JacktheRaven]

Why aren't the media members mentioning the fact that the cap limit is going up by 11.5 mil this year. That's over 40 mil. in the last 4 years. Ravens will get the players they want.

[RavensBaltimore]

I don't know why the media is so surprised that the FO offered KO a deal. LT tackle has been a problem area for us for a while now, and if they feel KO can be a long term solution for us, it's worth the investment. We can save plenty of money this year by cutting Monroe after June 1, and cutting him sooner would only save 2 mil this year, but it would save a lot more in the next couple years, when KO's higher cap hits would probably kick in.

[jravens13]

Not having to take Stanley allows us more flexibility in the Draft so we can address other needs. The writing is on the wall for Monroe. He can't be relied on. That is your job at LT. The media needs to realize that Monroe doesn't have what it takes to be a Raven. It doesn't even matter if he cashes out. I would rather see a Rookie holding it down.

Edited February 26, 2016 by jravens13

[balfan23]

3 hours ago, harfordravenfan said:

Seems high, what's that in terms of guard/tackle deals? Seems like at least top 10 Lt money (but just a guess)

Yeah - it is a guess - even if you attempt to look at the current salaries of LTs in the league. The reason it is a guess is you don't know what new contracts are going to be written. 

I will be surprised if what we offer KO will ultimately pan out to be top 10 money. If there are teams to pay him much more than that, then I'm afraid KO will not fit the "right player at the right price" model. It is still good to see that we're not just throwing up our hands and letting him walk. 

[rmcjacket23]

43 minutes ago, JacktheRaven said:

Why aren't the media members mentioning the fact that the cap limit is going up by 11.5 mil this year. That's over 40 mil. in the last 4 years. Ravens will get the players they want.

Because that's already factored into the Ravens current salary cap position. Most of that $11.5M has already been spent on existing players (i.e. most players cost more this year than they did last year).

[balfan23]

25 minutes ago, RavensBaltimore said:

I don't know why the media is so surprised that the FO offered KO a deal. LT tackle has been a problem area for us for a while now, and if they feel KO can be a long term solution for us, it's worth the investment. We can save plenty of money this year by cutting Monroe after June 1, and cutting him sooner would only save 2 mil this year, but it would save a lot more in the next couple years, when KO's higher cap hits would probably kick in.

I think the reason the media (and myself included) are surprised is because of our apparent lack of cap. I'm still puzzled by our FO's talk on how much freedom we have and how active we can be, even without renegotiating Flacco's contract. I'd never call myself a cap expert, but I thought I knew enough to see that we were pinched this year. I still don't get how this is all going to work, but I suppose we'll see. 

I'm not so sure about Monroe being a post June 1 cut. I suppose he could be ... if Pitta is going to play, which I just can't see happening. My thought all along was that Pitta was going to be that post June 1 cut. We rarely ever do post June 1 cuts, because it doesn't free money in the time frame when it is most needed and that it pushes a lot of dead money into the following year. We may do one, but certainly not both. 

[harfordravenfan]

26 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

Yeah - it is a guess - even if you attempt to look at the current salaries of LTs in the league. The reason it is a guess is you don't know what new contracts are going to be written. 

I will be surprised if what we offer KO will ultimately pan out to be top 10 money. If there are teams to pay him much more than that, then I'm afraid KO will not fit the "right player at the right price" model. It is still good to see that we're not just throwing up our hands and letting him walk. 

Agreed, but I think the ravens often make a fair offer to our fa players, they just choose going where more money is offered (can't blame them)

[WNC-Raven]

Why aren't the media members mentioning the fact that the cap limit is going up by 11.5 mil this year. That's over 40 mil. in the last 4 years. Ravens will get the players they want.

That's old news Jack! I believe we were actually over the cap before factoring in the cap rise

[riseNConquer81]

Why aren't the media members mentioning the fact that the cap limit is going up by 11.5 mil this year. That's over 40 mil. in the last 4 years. Ravens will get the players they want.

The $14M increase in Joe's cap hit alone already cancels that out.

[riseNConquer81]

our RB corps is not so bad that we need to bring in 6-8 backs and try them all out and hope something sticks.

We're never gonna keep 5 backs. Richardson is overrated as a power back, especially since he cant find holes. Its just a waste of a chance to find another more useful guy at a spot we need more.

yeah it might be just one out of 90 guys, but that one guy could be the difference between us finding the next Victor Cruz or Allen Hurns, or ending up starting Frank Walker at corner. Just doesnt make sense to spend all that time on a guy you expect to fail at a position youre not desperate at.

the downside is that he has virtually no real upside and someone else who does wont make it to camp.

Edited February 26, 2016 by riseNConquer81

[Halshayeji]

  3 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

With the carryover cap, you can certainly tell which teams are not doing well lol or at least haven't inked a franchise QB to their big deal. I mean come on the Jags have $32 million and Tennessee has $20 million, which is just crazy when they will more likely than not just use it to over pay a small batch of players in free agency.

There are numerous teams who also don't spend to the cap limit. Jacksonville is one of them. There are many teams that annually carry $20-30M in cap space over because their owner would rather be more profitable than spend it.

 

One can question the decisions of our FO and allocating cap space. No one can question their desire as they always spend till the limit. Our facilities are state of the art and our staff is always amongst the highest paid and most sought after. We truily have been spoiled lol

[djk987]

So, consider this wild thought, Ozzie is putting pressure on Joe, because if he won't relent, Ozzie will take a new quarterback at pick number 6 (or spend and trade up if necessary). I really think he wouldn't want to go this route because of the risk, but it's a risky situation all around.

[rmcjacket23]

34 minutes ago, djk987 said:

So, consider this wild thought, Ozzie is putting pressure on Joe, because if he won't relent, Ozzie will take a new quarterback at pick number 6 (or spend and trade up if necessary). I really think he wouldn't want to go this route because of the risk, but it's a risky situation all around.

Zero percent chance of this, and all parties know it. Particularly with as weak a QB class as this one is.

[ravensdan]

Long term deals actually don't cost much cap the first year due to the signing bonus which is spread out over the remaining years. The average per year money and certainly the total contract value numbers are a total joke. If you want to see what a contract really is just look at the guarantee money only as this is all that matters. The rest may as well just be Monopoly money. 

[NCMan]

Long term deals actually don't cost much cap the first year due to the signing bonus which is spread out over the remaining years. The average per year money and certainly the total contract value numbers are a total joke. If you want to see what a contract really is just look at the guarantee money only as this is all that matters. The rest may as well just be Monopoly money. 

Not really true. Signing bonuses are counted against the cap, sooner or later. That cannot be avoided. Regardless of how a team decides to allocate it, it matters, hence the term "dead money". I get the point you were trying to make, though.

[PalmBayRaven]

  1 hour ago, djk987 said:

So, consider this wild thought, Ozzie is putting pressure on Joe, because if he won't relent, Ozzie will take a new quarterback at pick number 6 (or spend and trade up if necessary). I really think he wouldn't want to go this route because of the risk, but it's a risky situation all around.

Zero percent chance of this, and all parties know it. Particularly with as weak a QB class as this one is.

I think there is a chance and it's greater than 0. Joe really hasn't played that well since signing that big contract. He has been middle of the road and I expected more development than what I saw last year. We have Ryan Mallete real cheap. Russell Street report had an article today about possible trade scenario wth Denver. Getting a couple 1st round picks maybe a 2nd for Joe. Just saying there is always a chance.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, ravensdan said:

Long term deals actually don't cost much cap the first year due to the signing bonus which is spread out over the remaining years. The average per year money and certainly the total contract value numbers are a total joke. If you want to see what a contract really is just look at the guarantee money only as this is all that matters. The rest may as well just be Monopoly money. 

Depends on how you structure the deal. Can easily give a contract with no signing bonus and a large first year salary if teams wanted to.

Jay Cutler signed a contract in 2014 with no signing bonus and a $16M first year salary. Teams have quickly figured out that these mega deals with high sinning bonuses and $1M base salaries in year 1 aren't great ideas because of the inevitable speaks in cap number.

Better to flatten out the cap hits for better budgeting.

[rmcjacket23]

57 minutes ago, PalmBayRaven said:

I think there is a chance and it's greater than 0. Joe really hasn't played that well since signing that big contract. He has been middle of the road and I expected more development than what I saw last year. We have Ryan Mallete real cheap. Russell Street report had an article today about possible trade scenario wth Denver. Getting a couple 1st round picks maybe a 2nd for Joe. Just saying there is always a chance.

No, there is zero chance.

Middle of the road QBs are making $18-20M a year. He's not going anywhere.

[RavensBaltimore]

  6 hours ago, RavensBaltimore said:

I don't know why the media is so surprised that the FO offered KO a deal. LT tackle has been a problem area for us for a while now, and if they feel KO can be a long term solution for us, it's worth the investment. We can save plenty of money this year by cutting Monroe after June 1, and cutting him sooner would only save 2 mil this year, but it would save a lot more in the next couple years, when KO's higher cap hits would probably kick in.

I think the reason the media (and myself included) are surprised is because of our apparent lack of cap. I'm still puzzled by our FO's talk on how much freedom we have and how active we can be, even without renegotiating Flacco's contract. I'd never call myself a cap expert, but I thought I knew enough to see that we were pinched this year. I still don't get how this is all going to work, but I suppose we'll see. 

I'm not so sure about Monroe being a post June 1 cut. I suppose he could be ... if Pitta is going to play, which I just can't see happening. My thought all along was that Pitta was going to be that post June 1 cut. We rarely ever do post June 1 cuts, because it doesn't free money in the time frame when it is most needed and that it pushes a lot of dead money into the following year. We may do one, but certainly not both. 

We wouldn't need to cut Monroe after June 1st. I think the second scenario I mentioned is much more likely, if KO ends up staying.

[JacktheRaven]

  7 hours ago, JacktheRaven said:

Why aren't the media members mentioning the fact that the cap limit is going up by 11.5 mil this year. That's over 40 mil. in the last 4 years. Ravens will get the players they want.

That's old news Jack! I believe we were actually over the cap before factoring in the cap rise

Not true. Listen to Ozzie & Harbaugh. The cap has increased 12 Mil. this year

[rmcjacket23]

On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 10:34 PM, JacktheRaven said:

Not true. Listen to Ozzie & Harbaugh. The cap has increased 12 Mil. this year

Yes it has, and that cap space has already been spent. Note that right now Flacco alone costs $14M more than he did last year against the cap.

The Ravens are right up against the cap as presently assembled, including the increase in the cap. It's simple math.

[ravens775]

Keep KO in Baltimore! He plays like a raven

[purpledown]

With KO gone we can pencil Stanley in as the pick at No.6.