[News] Ravens Can Be 'Very Active' In Free Agency Without Joe Flacco Contract Restructure

[BR News]

The Ravens are reportedly set to meet with Flacco's agent at the combine to work on an extension.

View the full article

[throwback2000]

Not unless the Cap becomes 200 million over nite!

[ellicottraven]

"I want what’s fair,” Newsome said. “I think any time you’re dealing with a player, I have the best interest of Steve [Bisciotti] and the Baltimore Ravens. And the player has the best interest of himself, and we have to find that happy medium. And when we do, it works out good for everybody."

This is a remarkable and somewhat telling statement. If I were to read between the tea leaves, there has already been some back and forth with Linta regarding Flacco and there is still a gap too wide between what the Ravens believe to be fair and what Linta and Flacco want from the Ravens. At least that is my interpretation of that comment by Ozzie.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

"I want what’s fair,” Newsome said. “I think any time you’re dealing with a player, I have the best interest of Steve [Bisciotti] and the Baltimore Ravens. And the player has the best interest of himself, and we have to find that happy medium. And when we do, it works out good for everybody."

This is a remarkable and somewhat telling statement. If I were to read between the tea leaves, there has already been some back and forth with Linta regarding Flacco and there is still a gap too wide between what the Ravens believe to be fair and what Linta and Flacco want from the Ravens. At least that is my interpretation of that comment by Ozzie.

I agree with your assessment. I would also imagine because both of these guys do this on a regular basis, negotiating contracts, they are also being firm on their initial positions, to really judge who has more leverage. One think I do know for sure is Joe wants to win now. My guess is he comes in late after the inital offers have been heard and says I'd like (this) middle ground. Then Linta and Ozzie shake on it and pen it. Just keep it to max of $20 mil cap hit per season, pref less.

[rmcjacket23]

57 minutes ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

I agree with your assessment. I would also imagine because both of these guys do this on a regular basis, negotiating contracts, they are also being firm on their initial positions, to really judge who has more leverage. One think I do know for sure is Joe wants to win now. My guess is he comes in late after the inital offers have been heard and says I'd like (this) middle ground. Then Linta and Ozzie shake on it and pen it. Just keep it to max of $20 mil cap hit per season, pref less.

That's not what the Ravens are asking for, because there's no reasonable contract possible where Joe has cap hits every year of less than $20M. If he signs an extension this offseason, there will be over $25M in dead money from old contract that gets picked up in first three years of new contract.

In order to have long term cap hits of $20M or more over a 5-6 year period, he'd have to agree to a deal that pays him roughly $15-16M a year as an average annual salary...that would be a 20-25% paycut, which ain't happening.

The Ravens will be striving for cap hits in the range of probably $22-28M over a 5-6 year period.

[bigcatfrank1]

Joe could take an extension to 5 years...increased from 56 mil to 100mil using bonus and then spread the remaining 85mil of cap salary out over 5 years... doenst that work? That would put the hit at around 24 Mil per year, the only downside for Joe is that he sustains (lower than initial contract) salary cuts in 2 of the 5 years in getting the extension...wherever they work them out. Will he do it?

[bigcatfrank1]

24 Mill cap hits would be a big savings over the next 3 years of scheduled hits, It would save 4 mil this year plus with the 12 mil team increase that would net around 6 million in space over last year just form the re-deal. If not,  10 mil of the space increase is eaten up and we have 10 mil less in cash. a net 20 mil loss. I cant see that the Ravens don't make a deal work even at 24 mil hit level. As well I cannot see Joe not looking at the big picture by increasing his contract to 5 years and getting the total net 100 mil. for his family.

Edited February 25, 2016 by bigcatfrank1
incorrect spelling

[ellicottraven]

  1 hour ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

I agree with your assessment. I would also imagine because both of these guys do this on a regular basis, negotiating contracts, they are also being firm on their initial positions, to really judge who has more leverage. One think I do know for sure is Joe wants to win now. My guess is he comes in late after the inital offers have been heard and says I'd like (this) middle ground. Then Linta and Ozzie shake on it and pen it. Just keep it to max of $20 mil cap hit per season, pref less.

That's not what the Ravens are asking for, because there's no reasonable contract possible where Joe has cap hits every year of less than $20M. If he signs an extension this offseason, there will be over $25M in dead money from old contract that gets picked up in first three years of new contract.

In order to have long term cap hits of $20M or more over a 5-6 year period, he'd have to agree to a deal that pays him roughly $15-16M a year as an average annual salary...that would be a 20-25% paycut, which ain't happening.

The Ravens will be striving for cap hits in the range of probably $22-28M over a 5-6 year period.

Here is Joe's salary and cap information for those that are interested...

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/joe-flacco/

[PalmBayRaven]

I'm glad Oz is sticking to what he said earlier. Hey if the Oz man thinks we don't have to redo the deal then maybe we don't need to redo it? Better than kicking the can down the road if things don't pan out. Not gonna lie I was disappointed in Joe last year. Those back foot lobs killed me. I really thought last year was going to be his year too and I just didn't see it. I will assume the Ravens have a plan and who's to say their wrong? Time will tell but some times you just bite the bullet and get it over with. Don't need to be held hostage by an over valued QB. Let him earn it this year just like the Super Bowl run. Because he hasn't played like that since.

[mearzunkies]

I'm glad Oz is sticking to what he said earlier. Hey if the Oz man thinks we don't have to redo the deal then maybe we don't need to redo it? Better than kicking the can down the road if things don't pan out. Not gonna lie I was disappointed in Joe last year. Those back foot lobs killed me. I really thought last year was going to be his year too and I just didn't see it. I will assume the Ravens have a plan and who's to say their wrong? Time will tell but some times you just bite the bullet and get it over with. Don't need to be held hostage by an over valued QB. Let him earn it this year just like the Super Bowl run. Because he hasn't played like that since.

He put up stats G. LOL

[balfan23]

I'm not sure what "very active" means ... but it seems hard to see how that can be if no new deal is worked out with Joe.

[RavensBaltimore]

I'm not sure what "very active" means ... but it seems hard to see how that can be if no new deal is worked out with Joe.

I'm pretty sure it means that Ozzie is trying to keep a poker face by not saying that they need to get a deal done.

[ellicottraven]

If Ozzie says we can be very active when free agecy starts with Flacco's deal not being done, one can only surmise that a lot fo veterans are going to be cap casualties.

[TheConquerorWorm]

If Joe signs the exact same deal he did in 2013, then his cap hits (including the $24 million in dead money) would be $17.35 million, $25.35 million, $19.3 million, $28.5 million (where we are now in 2019). That would free up $11 million this year - almost enough to sign Tucker & KO long term.

Obviously, Linta will argue inflation and going rate ($40 million guaranteed for most QBs now) and the Ravens will counter with performance (Age & injury vs Super Bowl MVP). I think we see a new deal for the same 6 years - $120 million but with $40 million signing bonus instead of $29 million. That would put his cap # this year at $19.5 million.

[TheConquerorWorm]

Seems simple enough - Redo Flacco & Webb's deals to free up enough cap space to re-sign KO & Tucker. Cut Canty, DSmith, Arrington, Kendrick Lewis, Levine (replace in starting Line-up with Carl Davis/Urban, Orr/Brown, Will Davis, Webb) and then take their $7 million in savings and sign the best FAs (plenty of quality CB, S, DE, LB & TE in free agency)

[jravens13]

I'm glad Oz is sticking to what he said earlier. Hey if the Oz man thinks we don't have to redo the deal then maybe we don't need to redo it? Better than kicking the can down the road if things don't pan out. Not gonna lie I was disappointed in Joe last year. Those back foot lobs killed me. I really thought last year was going to be his year too and I just didn't see it. I will assume the Ravens have a plan and who's to say their wrong? Time will tell but some times you just bite the bullet and get it over with. Don't need to be held hostage by an over valued QB. Let him earn it this year just like the Super Bowl run. Because he hasn't played like that since.

I agree about the kicking the can down the road. Joe has proven he is a winner in the right situation. Great Defense and a balanced run/pass attack. We need to get the personnel on this team that has made us successful in the past. I think we have learned that he is likely overpaid for what he is capable of. Flacco himself should realize he can't win consistently without a great defense. Maybe an "elite" 1 or 2 QB's can, but they won't go anywhere in the playoffs without a defense backing them up.

[sflegend89]

This comment from Ozzie kind of baffled me. We are so tight against the cap I don't see how we can even be active in FA let alone "very active" regardless of whether or not we did re-structure Joe. I've sat through enough offseason to know that we aren't "very active" even when we have a chunk of money to spend. I'm interested to see whether this comment holds any truth when FA actually opens up or whether it was just press conference fodder like I suspect.

[Minionhunter]

I like it. Ozzie will gain a lot of power back waiting one year to renegotiate. The cap will already go up ~2 million more than previously thought due to the arbitration decision early this week. If Linta won't budge on some team friendly issues, Ozzie can wait a year and then threaten a trade or cut and Linta will have to take him seriously. I like Joe and hope things get worked out for the best both ways.

[J.O.14]

We all know very active in Ozzie's terms is probably signing a player or two that has been cut for very little. We are never active in FA even with a decent amount of cap space. I never get to excited for FA being a Ravens fan.

[rmcjacket23]

9 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

If Joe signs the exact same deal he did in 2013, then his cap hits (including the $24 million in dead money) would be $17.35 million, $25.35 million, $19.3 million, $28.5 million (where we are now in 2019). That would free up $11 million this year - almost enough to sign Tucker & KO long term.

Obviously, Linta will argue inflation and going rate ($40 million guaranteed for most QBs now) and the Ravens will counter with performance (Age & injury vs Super Bowl MVP). I think we see a new deal for the same 6 years - $120 million but with $40 million signing bonus instead of $29 million. That would put his cap # this year at $19.5 million.

Not sure where you are coming up with your numbers, but RSR did a great "mock" deal of what an extension would look like and the cap hits over that period. It is here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/01/14/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/joe-flacco-cmon-down/

Basically would add three more years to the deal and make it a combined $125M deal over the next six years. As such, cap hits would be:

$20.55M, $25.55M, $26.75M, $25M, $26M, $27M

This is a much more effective deal, because under your scenario (again, not sure where you are coming up with your figures), you would see some significant spikes in cap numbers ($8M increase from 2016 to 2017, $9.2M increase from 2018 to 2019), and that's the exact opposite of what the long term extension should be trying to accomplish.

I think the key thing that fans need to understand is that, most likely, the goal of a long term extension this offseason isn't simply just to make his 2016 cap hit dramatically lower. Its to flatten out his cap hits over time, so that you don't see a cap hit that doubles in a single offseason like it did this offseason. Any time a players cap hit jumps $8-10M in a single offseason, that's going to make life difficult for the team.

Based on what I've read from people who understand the Ravens position on this, an extension signed this offseason will probably still keep Joe's cap number over $20M in 2016. I'm not expecting a $10-12M cap reduction there. $6-8M is more realistic.

[Matty G]

I like it. Ozzie will gain a lot of power back waiting one year to renegotiate. The cap will already go up ~2 million more than previously thought due to the arbitration decision early this week. If Linta won't budge on some team friendly issues, Ozzie can wait a year and then threaten a trade or cut and Linta will have to take him seriously. I like Joe and hope things get worked out for the best both ways.

Agree, if we had the possibility of a super bowl run this year than I may say go ahead with the extension so we can be as competitive as possible. Unfortunately there are just too many holes and I would rather Ozzy eat the money rather than sacrifice the teams future. Also, Flacco is coming of a serious knee injury........Wouldn't want the ravens to make the same mistake again, but like all history, it seems to always repeat itself.

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, Minionhunter said:

I like it. Ozzie will gain a lot of power back waiting one year to renegotiate. The cap will already go up ~2 million more than previously thought due to the arbitration decision early this week. If Linta won't budge on some team friendly issues, Ozzie can wait a year and then threaten a trade or cut and Linta will have to take him seriously. I like Joe and hope things get worked out for the best both ways.

Not likely.

Why would Linta take a threat of a trade or cut seriously? How is that bad for his client? He's not stupid... he sees how terrible the QB landscape is in the NFL right now, and he sees that there's at least a half dozen teams every single season looking to upgrade that position.

If I were him... I'd call their bluff. I'd say cut my client. I'll just sit back and watch the feeding frenzy that will occur when teams like Cleveland, Houston, Jets, Rams, 49ers, Bills, etc. realize there's a Joe Flacco level QB on the FA market or available via trade.

He'd probably make more from those teams than he would in Baltimore.

Sorry, that strategy isn't going to work. The "leverage" play implies that the Ravens have an alternative of moving on from him, which they don't. Because at the end of the day, they're left with some draft picks and no QB, or worse, no additional draft picks and no QB. Not like you guys can just walk into FA or even into the draft and just pluck a Flacco-level QB off a tree. There's teams that have spent a decade or more looking for one and still can't find one...

[Matty G]

  2 hours ago, Minionhunter said:

I like it. Ozzie will gain a lot of power back waiting one year to renegotiate. The cap will already go up ~2 million more than previously thought due to the arbitration decision early this week. If Linta won't budge on some team friendly issues, Ozzie can wait a year and then threaten a trade or cut and Linta will have to take him seriously. I like Joe and hope things get worked out for the best both ways.

Not likely.

Why would Linta take a threat of a trade or cut seriously? How is that bad for his client? He's not stupid... he sees how terrible the QB landscape is in the NFL right now, and he sees that there's at least a half dozen teams every single season looking to upgrade that position.

If I were him... I'd call their bluff. I'd say cut my client. I'll just sit back and watch the feeding frenzy that will occur when teams like Cleveland, Houston, Jets, Rams, 49ers, Bills, etc. realize there's a Joe Flacco level QB on the FA market or available via trade.

He'd probably make more from those teams than he would in Baltimore.

Sorry, that strategy isn't going to work. The "leverage" play implies that the Ravens have an alternative of moving on from him, which they don't. Because at the end of the day, they're left with some draft picks and no QB, or worse, no additional draft picks and no QB. Not like you guys can just walk into FA or even into the draft and just pluck a Flacco-level QB off a tree. There's teams that have spent a decade or more looking for one and still can't find one...

He was referring to next year to renegotiate, and yes, the Ravens will have much greater leverage than this year because we free up 15 mill by releasing him. Also, a negotiation next year will be beneficial, because we will eat a lot of money this year, which means even lower cap hits going forward. And yes we could release Flacco next year. First off, Flacco, prior to getting injured was having a horrible 2016 campaign and if he repeats that performance this year, than yes he could be released.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, Matty G said:

He was referring to next year to renegotiate, and yes, the Ravens will have much greater leverage than this year because we free up 15 mill by releasing him. Also, a negotiation next year will be beneficial, because we will eat a lot of money this year, which means even lower cap hits going forward. And yes we could release Flacco next year. First off, Flacco, prior to getting injured was having a horrible 2016 campaign and if he repeats that performance this year, than yes he could be released.

No, he won't be released. That's the point. Guys like Joe don't get released, because in many cases, it takes many, many, many years in order to replace him.

That's the point. There really is no scenario where Joe gets released, short of him pulling a Ray Rice. He can play like he did in 2013, when he had his worst season, and he will still sign an extension worth $20M a year or more. Why? Because that's the market rate for said QB.

There's this false perception around fans that having less dead money and more cap savings allows us the ability to threaten to release somebody. That would generally work... if anybody on the planet thought you could replace that player. But no realistic person thinks we'd have a prayer of finding a better QB next season or probably in the short-term after that, meaning in order to be willing to cut Flacco, you have to be willing to lose for several years in the hopes of finding the next Andrew Luck. Needless to say, there's many teams who have been trying this (Cleveland, Buffalo, Miami, etc.) for quite literally a decade or longer, and have many failed attempts in doing so.

Make no mistake... the alleged "threat" of a release is a laughable notion, and Joe's agent knows this very well. Its great for fans to pretend like its a possibility, but its not.

[Matty G]

  9 minutes ago, Matty G said:

He was referring to next year to renegotiate, and yes, the Ravens will have much greater leverage than this year because we free up 15 mill by releasing him. Also, a negotiation next year will be beneficial, because we will eat a lot of money this year, which means even lower cap hits going forward. And yes we could release Flacco next year. First off, Flacco, prior to getting injured was having a horrible 2016 campaign and if he repeats that performance this year, than yes he could be released.

No, he won't be released. That's the point. Guys like Joe don't get released, because in many cases, it takes many, many, many years in order to replace him.

That's the point. There really is no scenario where Joe gets released, short of him pulling a Ray Rice. He can play like he did in 2013, when he had his worst season, and he will still sign an extension worth $20M a year or more. Why? Because that's the market rate for said QB.

There's this false perception around fans that having less dead money and more cap savings allows us the ability to threaten to release somebody. That would generally work... if anybody on the planet thought you could replace that player. But no realistic person thinks we'd have a prayer of finding a better QB next season or probably in the short-term after that, meaning in order to be willing to cut Flacco, you have to be willing to lose for several years in the hopes of finding the next Andrew Luck. Needless to say, there's many teams who have been trying this (Cleveland, Buffalo, Miami, etc.) for quite literally a decade or longer, and have many failed attempts in doing so.

Make no mistake... the alleged "threat" of a release is a laughable notion, and Joe's agent knows this very well. Its great for fans to pretend like its a possibility, but its not.

Again, if he has another year like 2016, why on earth would you give him an extension. Two, Joe is coming off a major knee injury, and while many players snap back there are a lot that don't. Three, it has been shown in the past couple super bowls that superbowls are mostly won on defense. Peyton was mediocre and so is Wilson. Look, I agree that qb's are a hot commodity and yes teams will pay premium price, but that does not mean the Ravens have to. Pay premium money for a premium player is how I see it, and since the super bowl run you could say our qb has been very suspect. Granted he helped us win a superbowl, but the old saying goes......."It's not what you have done for me, but what have you done for me lately"

[ALI624]

The only true threat we have is if you don't restructure your contract the starting LT will be Hurst.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, ALI624 said:

The only true threat we have is if you don't restructure your contract the starting LT will be Hurst.

Even that doesn't work, because they could still keep Monroe and/or draft a LT early in the draft.

[budman]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

No, he won't be released. That's the point. Guys like Joe don't get released, because in many cases, it takes many, many, many years in order to replace him.

That's the point. There really is no scenario where Joe gets released, short of him pulling a Ray Rice. He can play like he did in 2013, when he had his worst season, and he will still sign an extension worth $20M a year or more. Why? Because that's the market rate for said QB.

There's this false perception around fans that having less dead money and more cap savings allows us the ability to threaten to release somebody. That would generally work... if anybody on the planet thought you could replace that player. But no realistic person thinks we'd have a prayer of finding a better QB next season or probably in the short-term after that, meaning in order to be willing to cut Flacco, you have to be willing to lose for several years in the hopes of finding the next Andrew Luck. Needless to say, there's many teams who have been trying this (Cleveland, Buffalo, Miami, etc.) for quite literally a decade or longer, and have many failed attempts in doing so.

Make no mistake... the alleged "threat" of a release is a laughable notion, and Joe's agent knows this very well. Its great for fans to pretend like its a possibility, but its not.

Agree. No chance that a threat of cut or release will be used. Linta isn't stupid and the Ravens aren't neither. I do however get the feeling that even though they say they have been "friend" for years, there is a huge amount of animosity there. It seem that they just don't like each other.

[harfordravenfan]

11 hours ago, RavensBaltimore said:

I'm pretty sure it means that Ozzie is trying to keep a poker face by not saying that they need to get a deal done.

Or an unspoken hint to flacco that linto and the fo aren't close to a deal (hoping he will step in and except less than linto will), just wishful thinking but sounds good lol

[ALI624]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Even that doesn't work, because they could still keep Monroe and/or draft a LT early in the draft.

Well that's the point of the threat we tell him we are going to cut Monroe because we need the cap money for other players and not going to draft one early to spend it on the defense(which I believe is the more pressing need.)