[News] Late For Work 2/23: Joe Flacco Contract Negotiations To Kick Off This Weekend

[BR News]

Would Cromartie make sense? Ravens don’t have to release Canty to part ways. Crunch at safety position.

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[757RavensFan]

“By doing so, they preserve their ability to consider Canty a loss for comp pick purposes if he signs with another team.  Declining Canty’s option will create $2.15 million in cap space for the team.”

If we don't pick up Canty's option and another team picks him up, possibly gaining a comp pick for him plus saving $2.5M is a good thing. 

[bioLarzen]

Yet another clearly over-the-top-and-nearting-a-freefall veteran hits the street, yet another article about whether he could fit the Ravens... People, all the news were about how spectacularly Cromartie was NOT effective a CB anymore. He was done, out of gas. Cutting him wasn't only a cap room creatiing move - everyone was expecting the Jets to cut him sooner or later. Why? Because he. Is. Done.

[Ravenseconbeast]

So much for starting the negotiation now.. Typical Joe Linta shady tactic.

If the deal isnt good, just pay Joe the fat cash he never deserved and get rid of the mediocre dud.

Please, lets move on and start fresh. We don't need to hold onto a 'drew bledsoe' that clearly is overpaid and never will get us back to SB with his fat wad of cash

[jravens13]

Yet another clearly over-the-top-and-nearting-a-freefall veteran hits the street, yet another article about whether he could fit the Ravens... People, all the news were about how spectacularly Cromartie was NOT effective a CB anymore. He was done, out of gas. Cutting him wasn't only a cap room creatiing move - everyone was expecting the Jets to cut him sooner or later. Why? Because he. Is. Done.

Cromartie is has had issues with child support to the point where he has needed contract advances. At this stage in his career, I don't think he is the guy we need.

[ellicottraven]

By March 9th we'll know how serious and committed Flacco was when he made the statement - "Come on, I want to win". If he doesn't intervene and instruct Linta to make a reasonable deal happen, it won't. Linta will want a lot more than Flacco deserves or the Ravens can afford. And that is my fear. The disparaging and insulting comments Linta made about the front office on the Flacco negotiation gives me pause this time around. So, unless Flacco agrees to a 5-6 yr extension averaging 17-18 M/year we are going to remain in extended cap hell.

[RavensDieHard21]

well i'll be praying a deal gets done before free agency, but I won't hold my breath. It would all be too perfect for the cap to go up again by an additional $2 million then we get Joe's cap hit down to $20 million. I pray Ozzie learned from his method of kicking the can down the road and hoping the players sign an extension or restructure because a $28 million and $31 million cap hits are absolutely crippling.

[b93333]

Lots of bad blood between Linta and the FO due to Linta's verbal barrage against Ozzie after the last contract. In the past Joe has always said he leaves contract matters to his agent. Unless that changes things are going to be tough.

[757RavensFan]

26 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

By March 9th we'll know how serious and committed Flacco was when he made the statement - "Come on, I want to win". If he doesn't intervene and instruct Linta to make a reasonable deal happen, it won't. Linta will want a lot more than Flacco deserves or the Ravens can afford. And that is my fear. The disparaging and insulting comments Linta made about the front office on the Flacco negotiation gives me pause this time around. So, unless Flacco agrees to a 5-6 yr extension averaging 17-18 M/year we are going to remain in extended cap hell.

I seriously don't think Linta is asking for more. Kind of hard to justify asking for more money when Joe can't even run right now. 

The discussion to be had is extending what Joe is currently owed. 

Edited February 23, 2016 by 757RavensFan

[WNC-Raven]

So explain to me why Flacco holds all the leverage again? Sure he could hold us financially hostage and create a situation where 1/4 of our cap goes to pay him but professional athletes are some of the most competitive people in the world and I have to think that Joe would rather restructure and have a chance to win more than 5 games a year. That means 11 games a year where you feel the pain of defeat. You think we feel horrible after a loss just imagine how the players feel. Not fun. It would also determine how good our Oline is by who we could bring in or resign (KO) and less quality backups. This means Joe would spend 3 more years running for his life for 60 minutes a week. Not fun. It also increases the chance that he would get injured again and again only create a situation where we would need to look at drafting a new QB one year because Flacco is unreliable at that point and he could slowly drift out of the starter possition. Sure he is rich already but I think for a competitor like Joe playing and winning may be more motivation than money. I guess we will see. So yeah, go ahead Linta, try and squeeze us for every penny but watch yourself because if Ravens fans aren't happy, Joe isnt going to be happy.

[RavensDieHard21]

33 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

By March 9th we'll know how serious and committed Flacco was when he made the statement - "Come on, I want to win". If he doesn't intervene and instruct Linta to make a reasonable deal happen, it won't. Linta will want a lot more than Flacco deserves or the Ravens can afford. And that is my fear. The disparaging and insulting comments Linta made about the front office on the Flacco negotiation gives me pause this time around. So, unless Flacco agrees to a 5-6 yr extension averaging 17-18 M/year we are going to remain in extended cap hell.

I hate Linta lol I seriously pray that Joe just says he wants $18-20 million per year and we can make a deal that fits that because an extra $8-10 million could do wonders. We could sign Tucker, tender Aiken, and at least put an offer on the table for KO instead of insisting we can't afford him. At least find out what he would want to stay. I guess we'll cross our fingers. Being in cap nighmares is terrible, ESPN radio was practically stating that unless we reduce our cap that 2016 will be another grinder year.

[RavensDieHard21]

7 minutes ago, WNC-Raven said:

So explain to me why Flacco holds all the leverage again? Sure he could hold us financially hostage and create a situation where 1/4 of our cap goes to pay him but professional athletes are some of the most competitive people in the world and I have to think that Joe would rather restructure and have a chance to win more than 5 games a year. That means 11 games a year where you feel the pain of defeat. You think we feel horrible after a loss just imagine how the players feel. Not fun. It would also determine how good our Oline is by who we could bring in or resign (KO) and less quality backups. This means Joe would spend 3 more years running for his life for 60 minutes a week. Not fun. It also increases the chance that he would get injured again and again only create a situation where we would need to look at drafting a new QB one year because Flacco is unreliable at that point and he could slowly drift out of the starter possition. Sure he is rich already but I think for a competitor like Joe playing and winning may be more motivation than money. I guess we will see. So yeah, go ahead Linta, try and squeeze us for every penny but watch yourself because if Ravens fans aren't happy, Joe isnt going to be happy.

$120 million QB needs a line to be successful, if we even have a snowball's chance to keep KO, then we will need some cap space from an extension. Our line with KO, Yanda, and Wagner is solid, and to think Monroe is the definite answer at LT or depending on a rookie when he goes down is foolish. Maybe Flacco remembers when Hurst was tossed like a ragdoll into his knee.....We need KO

[rmcjacket23]

7 hours ago, WNC-Raven said:

So explain to me why Flacco holds all the leverage again? Sure he could hold us financially hostage and create a situation where 1/4 of our cap goes to pay him but professional athletes are some of the most competitive people in the world and I have to think that Joe would rather restructure and have a chance to win more than 5 games a year. That means 11 games a year where you feel the pain of defeat. You think we feel horrible after a loss just imagine how the players feel. Not fun. It would also determine how good our Oline is by who we could bring in or resign (KO) and less quality backups. This means Joe would spend 3 more years running for his life for 60 minutes a week. Not fun. It also increases the chance that he would get injured again and again only create a situation where we would need to look at drafting a new QB one year because Flacco is unreliable at that point and he could slowly drift out of the starter possition. Sure he is rich already but I think for a competitor like Joe playing and winning may be more motivation than money. I guess we will see. So yeah, go ahead Linta, try and squeeze us for every penny but watch yourself because if Ravens fans aren't happy, Joe isnt going to be happy.

Holds the leverage because the Ravens won't cut or trade him. He's a franchise player that the Ravens know they will go into the tank without.

When a player walks into negotiations and knows that the team he is negotiating with basically can't do business without out... that's called having leverage.

The reality is that Joe, like most players, probably doesn't care about his cap number, because that's up to the team to structure and deal with. He may have not even known what it was until the media told him. All he cares about and should care about is how much is making.

That's sort of the whole problem here... a number that Joe probably isn't focusing on. If Joe can get more money this season, great. If that simultaneously reduces his cap number, great as well. But the second thing is a byproduct of the first, not a requirement.

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

$120 million QB needs a line to be successful, if we even have a snowball's chance to keep KO, then we will need some cap space from an extension. Our line with KO, Yanda, and Wagner is solid, and to think Monroe is the definite answer at LT or depending on a rookie when he goes down is foolish. Maybe Flacco remembers when Hurst was tossed like a ragdoll into his knee.....We need KO

This is true. However, again, look at it from Joe's perspective....

What are the fans REALLY asking for here? They are asking for our QB to take less money so that we can resign a player to replace a player the FO already gave a large contract to and hasn't performed well for it.

So is it now Joe's responsibility to bail out the FO who gave Monroe a good sized contract and he got injured and hasn't played that well for it? Can any fan with a straight face say that they feel the responsibility of the starting QB is to take less money so that he can bail out the FO who gave out some (in hindsight) bad deals?

Why not ask Suggs to take a paycut? Or Jimmy? Or Pitta? Or Monroe? or Webb? How about everybody just slash their salary by $1M... wouldn't that be good for the team?

If I'm Joe, I'm asking the simple question... why me? Because I make the most money? Cool, I'm also clearly the most valuable.

[whobilly]

  24 minutes ago, WNC-Raven said:

So explain to me why Flacco holds all the leverage again? Sure he could hold us financially hostage and create a situation where 1/4 of our cap goes to pay him but professional athletes are some of the most competitive people in the world and I have to think that Joe would rather restructure and have a chance to win more than 5 games a year. That means 11 games a year where you feel the pain of defeat. You think we feel horrible after a loss just imagine how the players feel. Not fun. It would also determine how good our Oline is by who we could bring in or resign (KO) and less quality backups. This means Joe would spend 3 more years running for his life for 60 minutes a week. Not fun. It also increases the chance that he would get injured again and again only create a situation where we would need to look at drafting a new QB one year because Flacco is unreliable at that point and he could slowly drift out of the starter possition. Sure he is rich already but I think for a competitor like Joe playing and winning may be more motivation than money. I guess we will see. So yeah, go ahead Linta, try and squeeze us for every penny but watch yourself because if Ravens fans aren't happy, Joe isnt going to be happy.

Holds the leverage because the Ravens won't cut or trade him. He's a franchise player that the Ravens know they will go into the tank without.

When a player walks into negotiations and knows that the team he is negotiating with basically can't do business without out... that's called having leverage.

The reality is that Joe, like most players, probably doesn't care about his cap number, because that's up to the team to structure and deal with. He may have not even known what it was until the media told him. All he cares about and should care about is how much is making.

That's sort of the whole problem here... fans are focusing on a number that Joe probably isn't focusing on. If Joe can get more money this season, great. If that simultaneously reduces his cap number, great as well. But the second thing is a byproduct of the first, not a requirement.

Fans do feel horrible after a loss. Worse than a lot of players.

[757RavensFan]

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

This is true. However, again, look at it from Joe's perspective....

What are the fans REALLY asking for here? They are asking for our QB to take less money so that we can resign a player to replace a player the FO already gave a large contract to and hasn't performed well for it.

So is it now Joe's responsibility to bail out the FO who gave Monroe a good sized contract and he got injured and hasn't played that well for it? Can any fan with a straight face say that they feel the responsibility of the starting QB is to take less money so that he can bail out the FO who gave out some (in hindsight) bad deals?

Why not ask Suggs to take a paycut? Or Jimmy? Or Pitta? Or Monroe? or Webb? How about everybody just slash their salary by $1M... wouldn't that be good for the team?

If I'm Joe, I'm asking the simple question... why me? Because I make the most money? Cool, I'm also clearly the most valuable.

 

I don't know if they were asked, but they both took paycuts in the past. 

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

 

I don't know if they were asked, but they both took paycuts in the past. 

Yes, they did. My point is that this team was 5-11, and there weren't but a handful of guys who probably lived up to their contract last season or even in prior seasons.

If you want to keep KO, there's probably a dozen guys on this team I could justifiably argue you could be asking to take a paycut. In my opinion, I'm not sure asking your most valuable player to do so is necessarily the best business decision, which is why the Ravens aren't going to ask him to do it.

Literally the only people driving the "Joe take less" bus are fans... not even the media wants a part of that ride, and they usually are the first to suggest paycuts.

[steelcityraven]

I would love to see us add James Laurnitis. JL and CJ working the middle would be fearsome!

[WNC-Raven]

14 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Holds the leverage because the Ravens won't cut or trade him. He's a franchise player that the Ravens know they will go into the tank without.

When a player walks into negotiations and knows that the team he is negotiating with basically can't do business without out... that's called having leverage.

The reality is that Joe, like most players, probably doesn't care about his cap number, because that's up to the team to structure and deal with. He may have not even known what it was until the media told him. All he cares about and should care about is how much is making.

That's sort of the whole problem here... fans are focusing on a number that Joe probably isn't focusing on. If Joe can get more money this season, great. If that simultaneously reduces his cap number, great as well. But the second thing is a byproduct of the first, not a requirement.

Hey rmc, everything you are saying is true but also obvious. I credit you with being one of the more knowledgeable members on this board when it comes to using deduction and facts to discuss issues. Some of us however are more open, forward thinkers that enjoy discussing issues in a more rhetorical way. In the spirit of this I presented a "possible" consequence of Joe refusing to agree with a team friendly restructuring. All that I am saying is if Joe doesn't deal it will mean that we will most likely have less talent at WR and OL during the rest of his tenure. You can see the frustration on a QB's face when their line doesn't hold up. This would be Joe's life. WR's that cant get open and a line that cant hold up protection. If he truly enjoys playing football then he would need to think about more than money. Life sucks when you hate your job. Linta will only be thinking about money. That is why I believe he does not hold all of the leverage. Just my opinion, nothing more.

[fusuymada]

Flacco needs to do the team a favor and not push for a cap restrictive restructure. He said he wants to win and I guess when Linta meets with Newsome (rumor is they don't like each other) Flacco needs to let Linta know he works for Flacco not the other way around and Flacco needs to let Linta know he wants to do Baltimore a favor. Baltimore did Flacco a favor for paying him top dollar for a super bowl win and he has not been able to lead the offense and actually didn't play as well as the people who filled in for him last year. As far as safety goes, Elam is on his last leg and any injury or failure to start looking like a number 1 pick and he needs to go. Same goes for Webb and Kendrick Lewis was a waste of cap space. I know no one agrees with me but we need to move from 6 to 3 and grab Ramsey and give us some flexibility in the secondary and snatch up the best player in the draft.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, WNC-Raven said:

Hey rmc, everything you are saying is true but also obvious. I credit you with being one of the more knowledgeable members on this board when it comes to using deduction and facts to discuss issues. Some of us however are more open, forward thinkers that enjoy discussing issues in a more rhetorical way. In the spirit of this I presented a "possible" consequence of Joe refusing to agree with a team friendly restructuring. All that I am saying is if Joe doesn't deal it will mean that we will most likely have less talent at WR and OL during the rest of his tenure. You can see the frustration on a QB's face when their line doesn't hold up. This would be Joe's life. WR's that cant get open and a line that cant hold up protection. If he truly enjoys playing football then he would need to think about more than money. Life sucks when you hate your job. Linta will only be thinking about money. That is why I believe he does not hold all of the leverage. Just my opinion, nothing more.

And normally, I'd buy and agree with this concept. In theory, a high cap number from Joe means you spend less on other players. That could mean bad offensive lineman, bad receivers, etc., which would obviously directly impact Joe's production. A decline in production makes him less valuable, and as such, when new contract negotiations come up, the Ravens may get more leverage. Most of the time... I'd agree wholeheartedly with this.

The problem I see is simple... the market for QBs is sky high, the demand is sky high, and the supply coming out of college of one's as good as Joe is almost non existent from what I'm seeing. In a good year, you'll find ONE QB better than Joe in the draft, and its incredibly difficult many times to figure out who that is.

So if I'm a smart agent (and Joe Linta definitely is), I'm just showing the Ravens the market. I'm showing them that Kirk Cousins gets $20M a year on the franchise tag, and that QBs as good or worse than Joe are making similar money to what he is now. Once you show that... its pretty much checkmate from a negotiation standpoint. You've set a floor, and the floor is what he is making now. 3 years ago it was a big deal... now its largely a standard deal. Joe is going to get an extension that slots him in the range of an Eli, Big Ben, Rivers type contract. In theory, if he was real crappy in 2016, we might save $1M a year on negotiations. That's relatively chump change in the grand scheme of things.

Not to confuse anybody, but let me be clear... its in Joe's best interest to sign an extension in the next couple weeks. He will undoubtedly make more than the $18M hes scheduled to make in 2015, he gets more guaranteed money (which technically he has none remaining on his current deal) and he gets more years added to his deal.

My point is that his desire to do so doesn't have a whole lot to do with the Ravens reducing his cap number, because that's not a priority for him. That's up to the organization to figure out.

 

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, fusuymada said:

Flacco needs to do the team a favor and not push for a cap restrictive restructure. He said he wants to win and I guess when Linta meets with Newsome (rumor is they don't like each other) Flacco needs to let Linta know he works for Flacco not the other way around and Flacco needs to let Linta know he wants to do Baltimore a favor. Baltimore did Flacco a favor for paying him top dollar for a super bowl win and he has not been able to lead the offense and actually didn't play as well as the people who filled in for him last year. As far as safety goes, Elam is on his last leg and any injury or failure to start looking like a number 1 pick and he needs to go. Same goes for Webb and Kendrick Lewis was a waste of cap space. I know no one agrees with me but we need to move from 6 to 3 and grab Ramsey and give us some flexibility in the secondary and snatch up the best player in the draft.

Its an extension or nothing most likely. A "restructure" (where they convert part of his salary to a bonus and spread out the cap hit) changes nothing for Joe... he still gets the same amount of money in the same year.

If it were to get to a restructure standpoint, it will be because the organization decides they can't come to terms on an extension and its the only way they can lower his current cap hit. I don't see this as a realistic scenario for either party.

[757RavensFan]

28 minutes ago, steelcityraven said:

I would love to see us add James Laurnitis. JL and CJ working the middle would be fearsome!

He's horrible! You might want to check and see where he's ranked compared to other ILBs.  I think you'll be disappointed. 

[WNC-Raven]

  16 minutes ago, WNC-Raven said:

Hey rmc, everything you are saying is true but also obvious. I credit you with being one of the more knowledgeable members on this board when it comes to using deduction and facts to discuss issues. Some of us however are more open, forward thinkers that enjoy discussing issues in a more rhetorical way. In the spirit of this I presented a "possible" consequence of Joe refusing to agree with a team friendly restructuring. All that I am saying is if Joe doesn't deal it will mean that we will most likely have less talent at WR and OL during the rest of his tenure. You can see the frustration on a QB's face when their line doesn't hold up. This would be Joe's life. WR's that cant get open and a line that cant hold up protection. If he truly enjoys playing football then he would need to think about more than money. Life sucks when you hate your job. Linta will only be thinking about money. That is why I believe he does not hold all of the leverage. Just my opinion, nothing more.

And normally, I'd buy and agree with this concept. In theory, a high cap number from Joe means you spend less on other players. That could mean bad offensive lineman, bad receivers, etc., which would obviously directly impact Joe's production. A decline in production makes him less valuable, and as such, when new contract negotiations come up, the Ravens may get more leverage. Most of the time... I'd agree wholeheartedly with this.

The problem I see is simple... the market for QBs is sky high, the demand is sky high, and the supply coming out of college of one's as good as Joe is almost non existent from what I'm seeing. In a good year, you'll find ONE QB better than Joe in the draft, and its incredibly difficult many times to figure out who that is.

So if I'm a smart agent (and Joe Linta definitely is), I'm just showing the Ravens the market. I'm showing them that Kirk Cousins gets $20M a year on the franchise tag, and that QBs as good or worse than Joe are making similar money to what he is now. Once you show that... its pretty much checkmate from a negotiation standpoint. You've set a floor, and the floor is what he is making now. 3 years ago it was a big deal... now its largely a standard deal. Joe is going to get an extension that slots him in the range of an Eli, Big Ben, Rivers type contract. In theory, if he was real crappy in 2016, we might save $1M a year on negotiations. That's relatively chump change in the grand scheme of things.

Not to confuse anybody, but let me be clear... its in Joe's best interest to sign an extension in the next couple weeks. He will undoubtedly make more than the $18M hes scheduled to make in 2015, he gets more guaranteed money (which technically he has none remaining on his current deal) and he gets more years added to his deal.

My point is that his desire to do so doesn't have a whole lot to do with the Ravens reducing his cap number, because that's not a priority for him. That's up to the organization to figure out.

 

The only thing we know is that he will remain a Raven. It doesnt change the possibility that if the contract is not extended Joe will most likely not have an enjoyable next 3 years. And that's just on the field and at practice. Add in being bad mouthed by fans and media for 3 years. What would his value be in 2019 after not winning much since the SB and being chased out of town the moment his contract is over? Joe doesnt put off the greedy vibe and he loves to win so the best part is that everything we are discussing is a waste of our time as I think the odds of a deal getting done are almost 100%, Ozzie works the cap for all it's worth and brings in his typical value players that no one has even heard of and we have a pretty decent season in 2016.

[ellicottraven]

Is it possible that the Ravens are looking for a restructure and Joe is looking for an extension? The Ravens might not want to extend Joe this year considering he had a severe knee tear and may want to see how mobile he is this year and also how he performs. Also, the sting of the Pitta extension is still fresh in the minds of the front office. Now, I understand the two aren't the same injuries and ACL/MCL tears have a history of recovery and good performance after the fact. Carson Palmer is an example. But, still would you blame the Ravens if hey chose to be prudent? What would happen to them should Flacco in the act of dropping back suddenly collapses clutching his repaired knee? Just food for though folks. After all we are talking 10s of millions of dollars here.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Lets get it DONE Flacco and Oz get us some $$$ to spend then get the right guys signed and resigned....

[ravens4life86]

Totally agree on tough choices coming for safety position.
You cant carry 8 safeties and pay Webb 10 million when hes not a pro bowler anymore. Itd be different if thats Ed Reed,

[ravens4life86]

Big weekend..hopefully Flacco deal gets done

[Bat-mite]

It is reassuring to hear Flacco say that he wants to win. When one player eats so much cap space, that doesn't bode well for winning.

[billiejean]

2 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

I would love to see us add James Laurnitis. JL and CJ working the middle would be fearsome!

the last things this defense needs is another slow and old linebacker

Edited February 23, 2016 by billiejean