[News] Eisenberg: Impact Of Joe Flacco's Contract Has Been Overrated Until Now

[The Greek]

he is due $28 million which of course is insane but if the fo chooses to let him play at that cap # than they better pray monroe stays healthy for the whole season and they find a suitable replacement for osemele or enjoy seeing flacco on his back several times a game, enjoy watching him throw off of his back foot for int's a few times a game and enjoy watching him get injured again.

[JacktheRaven]

he is due $28 million which of course is insane but if the fo chooses to let him play at that cap # than they better pray monroe stays healthy for the whole season and they find a suitable replacement for osemele or enjoy seeing flacco on his back several times a game, enjoy watching him throw off of his back foot for int's a few times a game and enjoy watching him get injured again.

How sure are you that if The Ravens lower Joe's cap hit, and with all that money, solve the LT position and keep Joe upright?

[jravens13]

QB: The most important and most overrated position in the NFL. Flacco needs help on the defensive side of the ball.

[NCMan]

he is due $28 million which of course is insane but if the fo chooses to let him play at that cap # than they better pray monroe stays healthy for the whole season and they find a suitable replacement for osemele or enjoy seeing flacco on his back several times a game, enjoy watching him throw off of his back foot for int's a few times a game and enjoy watching him get injured again.

He is not due $28 million. And I agree w/a few other posters....maybe keep him at that cap number. Re-writing yet another contract simply makes life a bit better in the short term. In a few years, we'll be having the same old conversations about the cap hit w/him yet again. Sooner or later, you have to pay the piper. The old "kick the can down the road" approach. Which, I have little doubt, they will do just that.

[Ravensfansince03]

Look at that $100 million dollar haircut on Flacco

[Halshayeji]

5 hours ago, FlaccoIsMyQuarterback5 said:

In two consecutive seasons, the defense has finished in the top ten twice overall under Pees.

We were 8th in total yards and that's the only significant statistic that the Ravens were above average, part of that may be attributed to teams being ahead of us and just ran the ball as we attempted a comeback. 12th against the run, and 25th in points allowed per game. Our red zone, 3rd down, and takeaways weren't great either. This D showed flashes of playing great great football. Theyd force four three and outs in a row then followed it by allowing 3 long drives and 17 points. I didn't see enough in game adjustments and often saw a front seven and a secondary on different pages.

[billiejean]

he is due $28 million which of course is insane but if the fo chooses to let him play at that cap # than they better pray monroe stays healthy for the whole season and they find a suitable replacement for osemele or enjoy seeing flacco on his back several times a game, enjoy watching him throw off of his back foot for int's a few times a game and enjoy watching him get injured again.

Again we go over this every single time we are talking about Flacco's contract. He is not due 28 million. He is only getting paid 18 million this year.

[verified]

Lets draft treadwell, if flacco had perriman and treadwell we would be unstoppable and we can finally begin this dynasty. Its an offensive league now and we need to start thinking offense.

[The Greek]

  5 hours ago, The Greek said:

he is due $28 million which of course is insane but if the fo chooses to let him play at that cap # than they better pray monroe stays healthy for the whole season and they find a suitable replacement for osemele or enjoy seeing flacco on his back several times a game, enjoy watching him throw off of his back foot for int's a few times a game and enjoy watching him get injured again.

Again we go over this every single time we are talking about Flacco's contract. He is not due 28 million. He is only getting paid 18 million this year.

sorry let me reword this. his cap figure for 2016 is 28.55 million

[The Greek]

  10 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

  20 hours ago, edthehead said:

it should't be,
he should be on the hot seat going into the season,
why was pees kept, and how much rope will he be given .

I think he already is on a little bit of a hot seat because our FO wont accept missing the playoffs 3 out of 4 years. Pees on the other hand, his seat is literally on fire! Hes gonna get rocks thrown at him the minute this D slips up a bit. Regardless of our overall record, Pees needs to be top 10 in every meaningful statistical category a D can be in (red zone, 3rd down, total yards, takeaways). We also need to see some value in players that were drafted so high. Elam, Brooks, A.Brown, T.Walker, and W.Davis for him to work with. 

 

Last year and the year before we gave Pees the excuse of his starters, (Webb, J.Smith) were injured and the backups were a bunch of 6th and 7th rounders that probably wont make a roster if they were cut. Unfortunately the guys that left played better with their new teams and the guys that came played much worse that they did with their former teams (Arrington, Lewis)This year Pees has 3 quality starters when you include HIll in the secondary and a litter of great raw talent. If you cant make something out of them then its on you Pees.

Arrington:- never was a big fan but he played much better with the Patriots as slot CB

Lewis:- Never was a big fan but he played much better as a Cheif and a Texan

Elam:- !st round. I'm not asking to make him a pro bowler but for gods sake put him in a position to at least help not hurt the team.

T.Walker:- 4th rounder

W.Davis:- 3rd rounder

Brooks:- 3rd rounder

2016 Draft and FA:- Unknown but you know some talent will be added 

If pees cant find 1 starter and above average depth from these guys then he never will. I hate to throw this out there but all Pees has proven since Ed Reed left is that Ed was right to ignore his calls and pull the secondary strings on his own. 

In two consecutive seasons, the defense has finished in the top ten twice overall under Pees.

#8 as far as yards given up but they had the 9th worst scoring defense. 25.1 points per game and to me that is the stat that matters most.

[Matty G]

  1 hour ago, billiejean said:

  6 hours ago, The Greek said:

he is due $28 million which of course is insane but if the fo chooses to let him play at that cap # than they better pray monroe stays healthy for the whole season and they find a suitable replacement for osemele or enjoy seeing flacco on his back several times a game, enjoy watching him throw off of his back foot for int's a few times a game and enjoy watching him get injured again.

Again we go over this every single time we are talking about Flacco's contract. He is not due 28 million. He is only getting paid 18 million this year.

sorry let me reword this. his cap figure for 2016 is 28.55 million

Yea like who cares. It is the 28 million that matters most anyhow.

[Swift 1]

On 2/20/2016 at 1:52 PM, Minionhunter said:

I almost hope they eat it this year because next year they will be in so much better a position to negotiate than this year it might be worth it. Even though they never would cut him the threat of cutting him this year would be laughed at by Linta who's only money ticket is Joe. Next year Linta would have to take the threat seriously due to the tremendous cap savings it would generate. Linta calling Ozzie dumb is a problem.

Isn't Joe's Cap hit next year over  30 mil, or am I wrong?

[The Greek]

  49 minutes ago, The Greek said:

  1 hour ago, billiejean said:

  6 hours ago, The Greek said:

he is due $28 million which of course is insane but if the fo chooses to let him play at that cap # than they better pray monroe stays healthy for the whole season and they find a suitable replacement for osemele or enjoy seeing flacco on his back several times a game, enjoy watching him throw off of his back foot for int's a few times a game and enjoy watching him get injured again.

Again we go over this every single time we are talking about Flacco's contract. He is not due 28 million. He is only getting paid 18 million this year.

sorry let me reword this. his cap figure for 2016 is 28.55 million

Yea like who cares. It is the 28 million that matters most anyhow.

thanks for not being picky

[rmcjacket23]

10 minutes ago, Matty G said:

Yea like who cares. It is the 28 million that matters most anyhow.

I mean, yes and no. The $28M is what matters to fans and mostly to the organization. It's NOT, however, what matters to Joe or his agent. And what matters to them is arguably all that matters, since they've got all the leverage.

That's sort of the irony of the situation. The Ravens want to lower his cap hit because it's too high, and Joe might want to negotiate because his pay for this year might be too low.

[rmcjacket23]

4 hours ago, NCMan said:

He is not due $28 million. And I agree w/a few other posters....maybe keep him at that cap number. Re-writing yet another contract simply makes life a bit better in the short term. In a few years, we'll be having the same old conversations about the cap hit w/him yet again. Sooner or later, you have to pay the piper. The old "kick the can down the road" approach. Which, I have little doubt, they will do just that.

1. That's not what they are going to do, and the Ravens rarely do it anyway.

2. Extending his contract is actually an easy way to flatten out the cap hits over the long term. Can easily structure a deal that keeps his cap numbers between the $22-$28M range over the next 4-5 years or more, which is the goal.

When you consider the pretty rapid growth of the salary cap consistently, a $25-30M cap hit for a QB even 3-4 years from now won't be considered that high. 

[mearzunkies]

Joe's a winner. He will negotiate and drop the # by about 7 million IMO. He will be worth the 2 more per to keep things from being back loaded again!

[WordProphet]

Now look, we haven't had a winning season since the Superbowl, because you have to win more then you lose to have a winning season, so I don't see how you can say we can put together a decent team without doing Flacco's contract over, unless a decent team to you is losing more then you win!!! Because last year was a fiasco of a year, 5-11, is that what you call a decent team? Seattle had to pay out big money to take them to the playoffs!!! I just don't see you paying people what you pay them and you get top of the line players who can stay healthy and take us to the playoffs!!! I mean I hope we can, I just don't see how, because this is a hard game with a lot of injuries especially concussions, and I would not play for a little bit of money with the possible of brain injuries that could mess up my future after football or an injury that could make me a paraplegic, I'm just saying!!!

[JacktheRaven]

Now look, we haven't had a winning season since the Superbowl, because you have to win more then you lose to have a winning season, so I don't see how you can say we can put together a decent team without doing Flacco's contract over, unless a decent team to you is losing more then you win!!! Because last year was a fiasco of a year, 5-11, is that what you call a decent team? Seattle had to pay out big money to take them to the playoffs!!! I just don't see you paying people what you pay them and you get top of the line players who can stay healthy and take us to the playoffs!!! I mean I hope we can, I just don't see how, because this is a hard game with a lot of injuries especially concussions, and I would not play for a little bit of money with the possible of brain injuries that could mess up my future after football or an injury that could make me a paraplegic, I'm just saying!!!

Ravens had a winning season in '14, (10-6) and beat the steelers in the playoffs. And, don't confuse lot's of cap space & wins. They don't necessarily go together.

[Matty G]

  13 hours ago, Matty G said:

Yea like who cares. It is the 28 million that matters most anyhow.

I mean, yes and no. The $28M is what matters to fans and mostly to the organization. It's NOT, however, what matters to Joe or his agent. And what matters to them is arguably all that matters, since they've got all the leverage.

That's sort of the irony of the situation. The Ravens want to lower his cap hit because it's too high, and Joe might want to negotiate because his pay for this year might be too low.

Well hopefully everything goes smoothly, I just hope they don't sacrifice the future of the team to save cap space this year, considering we are a little ways from becoming truly competitive again

[rmcjacket23]

39 minutes ago, Matty G said:

Well hopefully everything goes smoothly, I just hope they don't sacrifice the future of the team to save cap space this year, considering we are a little ways from becoming truly competitive again

Well, lets put it this way...Joe's average cap hit for the next three years as presently assembled is $28.15M.

There's really nothing the Ravens can do from a contractual perspective that would make that number worse.

[Matty G]

  2 hours ago, Matty G said:

Well hopefully everything goes smoothly, I just hope they don't sacrifice the future of the team to save cap space this year, considering we are a little ways from becoming truly competitive again

Well, lets put it this way...Joe's average cap hit for the next three years as presently assembled is $28.15M.

There's really nothing the Ravens can do from a contractual perspective that would make that number worse.

Well sure, but I can't see them getting that number down by any more than 3 million. Meaning a new extension with even cap hits I think is estimated at around 25 mill per year (cap hit). If we wait until next year, it goes significantly lower and we will have more leverage with negotiation. Plus Flacco is coming off of a serious knee injury and a horrible season. I really hope the negotiations come next year rather than this year.

[rmcjacket23]

41 minutes ago, Matty G said:

Well sure, but I can't see them getting that number down by any more than 3 million. Meaning a new extension with even cap hits I think is estimated at around 25 mill per year (cap hit). If we wait until next year, it goes significantly lower and we will have more leverage with negotiation. Plus Flacco is coming off of a serious knee injury and a horrible season. I really hope the negotiations come next year rather than this year.

In 2016 they certainly can. You can probably get it down to the $20-22M range, meaning a $6-8M drop. By signing him to an extension, you'll certainly be able to reduce the cap hits in the next two seasons and flatten out the impact over the length of the new deal, so we don't see major swings in the cap hit.

RSR did a good article on what that could look like here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/01/14/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/joe-flacco-cmon-down/

You could drop his 2016 cap number down to just over $20M, have about a $5M increase from that in 2017 (the biggest jump, and still $6M less than what its currently scheduled to be), and then have cap hits ranging between $25-27M from 2018-2021. Very flat structure with no major swings like the one we are seeing this year.

As for the leverage thing, I don't put too much stock in that. The franchise gaining leverage is primarily driven by the ability for the franchise to cut/trade a player, which in this case that leverage is practically zero this year, next year, or in the near future.

You'd be gambling in either scenario. If you don't extend him and he's terrible this season, MAYBE you can sign him for $1-2M a year less, but its not like his price tag is dropping to like $15M a year or anything. And, like we already saw, if you don't extend him and he plays great, his value goes up.

[bozo]

i'll tell u right now no one will pay him what the ravens are paying him, hes nor worth 20 million a year. and no one else will. hes just and average qb. who has a superbowl behind him cuz of the ray lewis last year the team took it to another level for ray.

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, bozo said:

i'll tell u right now no one will pay him what the ravens are paying him, hes nor worth 20 million a year. and no one else will. hes just and average qb. who has a superbowl behind him cuz of the ray lewis last year the team took it to another level for ray.

LOL, yeah this isn't even remotely true. There's easily a half dozen or more teams who would throw gigantic amounts of money at Joe if he were to be a FA. There are numerous teams who haven't had a QB as good as Joe on their roster in over a decade.

Once you see the costs of guys like Kirk Cousins and Sam Bradford, the weak "he's not worth $20M" argument will be shattered once and for all. Some of you guys clearly have no idea what the cost of even a mediocre QB in this league is.

Do some research.

[FloridalovesRavens]

Joe is certainly worth the money he is being paid regardless of what some fans like to think. He is reliable, hard working, never say never kind of QB. Other teams would salivate to have his kind of QB on their team. He doesn't put up the big statistical numbers but he sure has more wins than losses.

[757RavensFan]

Linta and the Front Office are meeting at the combine to try to work out Joe's contract. 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/22/ravens-flaccos-agent-likely-to-meet-this-weekend-on-revised-deal/

 

[JacktheRaven]

Joe is certainly worth the money he is being paid regardless of what some fans like to think. He is reliable, hard working, never say never kind of QB. Other teams would salivate to have his kind of QB on their team. He doesn't put up the big statistical numbers but he sure has more wins than losses.

I agree.

[PiercingRedEyes]

i'll tell u right now no one will pay him what the ravens are paying him, hes nor worth 20 million a year. and no one else will. hes just and average qb. who has a superbowl behind him cuz of the ray lewis last year the team took it to another level for ray.

"hes just and average qb. who has a superbowl behind him cuz of the ray lewis last year the team took it to another level for ray."

The Super Bowl "he has behind him"....that was all him. That was statistically the greatest post season by a QB in the history of the NFL. You may think he's an average QB, but for that playoff run he was the G.O.A.T. Thankfully for Ray he was able to put that together. Remember, it took nearly 40 points to beat Denver and over 30 points to win the Super Bowl.....hardly "taking it to another level (on defense)".

[Crusader]

He best take some of that money and buy some protection from pass rushers.

[100CrystalClear]

  6 hours ago, bozo said:

i'll tell u right now no one will pay him what the ravens are paying him, hes nor worth 20 million a year. and no one else will. hes just and average qb. who has a superbowl behind him cuz of the ray lewis last year the team took it to another level for ray.

"hes just and average qb. who has a superbowl behind him cuz of the ray lewis last year the team took it to another level for ray."

The Super Bowl "he has behind him"....that was all him. That was statistically the greatest post season by a QB in the history of the NFL. You may think he's an average QB, but for that playoff run he was the G.O.A.T. Thankfully for Ray he was able to put that together. Remember, it took nearly 40 points to beat Denver and over 30 points to win the Super Bowl.....hardly "taking it to another level (on defense)".

Very well-stated. People associate the Ravens' consistent and historically great defense with our last Super Bowl win. That's revisionist history. The Ravens' 2012 defense was the worst Baltimore had fielded in years (and since). Teams ran right through the teeth of the Ray Lewis-led front 7. It was downright embarrassing.

Yeah, that postseason run.....that was all Joe.
And shame on anyone who doesn't remember it correctly.