possible passing offense

[edthehead]

before anybody jumps down my throat, please hear me out.

just a discussion and your thoughts.

I know we are a run first offense have always been, but,

1st tier = 3 amigos(TE) , SSS (last year) BP, CAMP AIKEN, and a 1st/2nd round draft pick 

2nd tier = Daniel brown , Jeremy Butler , Kaelin clay (ret spec) Chris Matthews( ????) and chris Givens ( again ???)

average RB at best.

we have speed and decent hands at the WR position,

so my question is this,

are we a run first offense that happens to pass more?

linemen is another story. 

[757RavensFan]

Well considering that Harbaugh said that we need to get back to running in 2016, I would say we're going to see a well balance offense of run and pass.  If I had to guess, I think we'll see a 60/40  pass to run ratio.  So while we're a run 1st offense, Trestman loves to pass. He especially loves to pass to his RBs.  Which is basically a hand-off if you ask me.  

Regarding your tiers, I don't see Boyle, Camp or BP as 1st tier.  Camp can't stay healthy and BP has yet to catch his 1st NFL pass. 

Edited February 19, 2016 by 757RavensFan

[rmcjacket23]

Depends on how you define "run first"?

If you define "run first" by running the ball more than we throw it, then we have been a "pass first" team since 2011 (five straight years). 

In my judgment, a "balanced" offensive team would have a pass/run ratio of between 60/40 and 40/60. Last year we threw the ball 64% of the time.

If you want to correlate that with success, if you look back at the last five years, the years where we've been a more "balanced" offense are the years we've succeeded.

2015: 64/36 pass/run ratio

2014: 55/45 pass/run ratio

2013: 59/41 pass/run ratio

2012: 56/44 pass/run ratio

2011: 54/46 pass/run ratio

The years where we had closer pass/run ratio (balanced offense) were the years we made the playoffs. The two years where we were less balanced we did not.

Obviously there's some caveat's here, such as the fact that in 2013 we couldn't run the ball on a high school team, and our defense was so bad for much of last season that running the ball was pointless, so that obviously has an impact on play calling.

My guess would be that our offense will probably be at its best around a 60/40 pass/run ratio given our current talent on that side of the ball.

[edthehead]

4 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Well considering that Harbaugh said that we need to get back to running in 2016, I would say we're going to see a well balance offense of run and pass.  If I had to guess, I think we'll see a 60/40  pass to run ratio.  So while we're a run 1st offense, Trestman loves to pass. He especially loves to pass to his RBs.  Which is basically a hand-off if you ask me.  

Regarding your tiers, I don't see Boyle, Camp or BP as 1st tier.  Camp can't stay healthy and BP has yet to catch his 1st NFL pass. 

was being general when I gave the tiers and I am not saying that they are tier 1 in the league.

Camp is a slot shifty, BP was to take the top off(speed) helps with the running  and the passing game 

seems like a run first would feature a better RB or above average

  

[edthehead]

ahhh , 2 amigos, thanks nick

[lgcs27288]

With Trestman at the helm, pass first.

[PurpleCity5]

I don't think we need to run the ball more. I think we need to run the ball better. We weren't good at all this year running the ball. I think the passing offense needs to get as well and I sure don't want us to be so relient on running the ball. My ideal scenario is us being a lethal passing attack. If you can have that, then you can beat anyone. 

[Wildabeast88]

I agree a 55/45 ratio by the numbers would be ideal but the variables can cause the numbers to shift obviously as much as we trailed we needed to throw more whereas if you are ahead you will generally run more and even when passing you can be more conservative on your pass attempts instead of deep forced lower percentage throws

[JoeyFlex5]

10 hours ago, lgcs27288 said:

With Trestman at the helm, pass first.

I agree in a sense. I think it's all about first down calls. We absolutely need to pass more than we did on first down in the first half of the season. Watching us line up in the base package and get rekt in the middle every first down was sickening and it destroyed any chance of creativity. I personally think that is all harbs and if love him as a coach but he needs to keep his nose out of the playbook and let trestman figure it out, he isn't a run first coordinator and ditching his playbook for a 1 yard run every first down is a detriment

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

I like the Ravens when they are inflicting their will on opposing teams but we have never really seen that from the offense the whole time the Ravens have been around. We have only seen the defense be bullies but not for the last couple of years both the offense and defense have been in the middle of the pack amongst the other  NFL teams. We need to get back to being bullies on the field and I love the passing attack but you have to be able to run the ball in this league to keep the defense your facing honest. I would love to see the Ravens be dominate on both sides of the ball.

[edthehead]

I think if we drafted a WR in rd 1/2 , we may start passing more often.

not saying we will abandon the run  but look at our FB juice he catches more than he runs,

I for 1 would like to see joe doing his thing

if everybody play as expected, imagine

BP on the fly , SSS/CAMP/AIKEN going across the middle , TYLER BOYD on a post , and our TE's, or juice

all I am saying is an aerial attack could possibly (praying to the football gods) be lethal. 

   

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 1:27 PM, edthehead said:

I think if we drafted a WR in rd 1/2 , we may start passing more often.

not saying we will abandon the run  but look at our FB juice he catches more than he runs,

I for 1 would like to see joe doing his thing

if everybody play as expected, imagine

BP on the fly , SSS/CAMP/AIKEN going across the middle , TYLER BOYD on a post , and our TE's, or juice

all I am saying is an aerial attack could possibly (praying to the football gods) be lethal. 

   

It very well could and it would be fun to watch too.

Edited February 21, 2016 by ALSKAN RAVEN FAN

[PurpleCity5]

On 2/20/2016 at 7:31 AM, JoeyFlex5 said:

I agree in a sense. I think it's all about first down calls. We absolutely need to pass more than we did on first down in the first half of the season. Watching us line up in the base package and get rekt in the middle every first down was sickening and it destroyed any chance of creativity. I personally think that is all harbs and if love him as a coach but he needs to keep his nose out of the playbook and let trestman figure it out, he isn't a run first coordinator and ditching his playbook for a 1 yard run every first down is a detriment

I honestly want us to become a better passing offense. I really desire a lethal passing attack, you can beat anyone with it. I think the passing game needs just as much focus as the run game. I think the losses of Eugene Monroe and Ricky Wagner's foot injury really contributed to our pedestrian running game. I think with Wagner at 100%, and hopefully K.O returning at LT, our run game should improve. I think the passing attack needs one more guy, I feel like we need a reliable WR here, just a difference maker.

[edthehead]

21 hours ago, edthehead said:

I think if we drafted a WR in rd 1/2 , we may start passing more often.

not saying we will abandon the run  but look at our FB juice he catches more than he runs,

I for 1 would like to see joe doing his thing

if everybody play as expected, imagine

BP on the fly , SSS/CAMP/AIKEN going across the middle , TYLER BOYD on a post , and our TE's, or juice

all I am saying is an aerial attack could possibly (praying to the football gods) be lethal. 

   

oh, I left out the receiving RB, we crying about JOE throwing over 4 thousand he should be getting 5

I know , I hear you all now saying stop it or slow down

I think we will have the capabilities , we just need to focus   

[cushrinada1986]

I always wondered why we could be the other way around. Why can we open up the run with the pass? There have been times we have tried to run on teams and it became very predictable. 1st down run, second and short run, why cant we open up the passing game first to make teams back up so that our o-line can be more effective blocking less guys. The strategy may change from game to game but as a kick starter I would love to see the same balance but to see the ravens use Flaccos arm to scare DBs to backup and then maul them on the ground.

[thieverycorporation]

Boyle won't be with this team going forward as his mistakes cost more then money. No one should expect Ozzie to hold his breathe. If he keeps Boyle then he should seek out Gordon as he's another player with questionable security in terms of the league. Hue Jackson seems to be wanting to shed players with character issues. I say this in light of the of the possibility that Flacco's contract isn't restructured. We certainly won't have enough cap space to be a real factor in free agency as Ozzie's spinning currently. Of course Cleveland would have to either trade or release Gordon for that to happen. Not that far fetched imo. Being a retooling organization I'd say they need to become balanced in scoring as opposed to running. Field goals have been money but not the hallmark for a winning formula. So run first only happens when you score consistently. And it must be often and first for the best case scenario and results. Trestman really hasn't had great options in his first year here due to the roster. Injuries must be equated into it. The Ravens have pieces of the puzzle. I just wonder if teams scheme the Ravens proclamation that we run first and will always try. In fact I don't get the need for Harbaugh to make that a hallmark for this team. By announcing it he sets up the for a no-brainer game plan in terms of how we will approach the first play and how the opponent must scheme to stop them. It's playing poker and showing your hand. Actions should speak louder then words. They haven't had a high powered passing attack after the initial team was brought in via the move from Cleveland. I look for massive turn over to free up cap space to contend.

 

[Purple_City39]

In all honesty, pending health of course, there's no reason we shouldn't have a better passing attack in 2016.

Again, this includes healthy but you get a deep threat who, when comparing college tape since that's all we have, should NOT be any worse than Torrey.  Honestly, Perriman's floor should be Torrey from 2012.  I'm still not big on Aiken but he's proved he can play the #2 role at least so that moves SSS to that slot receiver spot.  If Campanero shocks that world and stays healthy, he can play the slot on occasion with SSS opposite Perriman.  Then we have a slew of WRs that can play the #4, #5, and #6 roles well enough.  Butler, D.Brown, and I'm still hoping for something out of Waller.  And this is all before they add someone, likely in the draft.  A Sterling Shepard will do damage in an Antonio Brown type of way although a Tyler Boyd could just dominate at times

We have 4 good receiving backs at the moment.  Forsett, Allen, West, and Juice have all shown they can catch out of the backfield.

Then there's the TEs.  Boyle may or may not be cut but Williams started to come on at the end of the season and as of now he's still the future.  Gillmore will be coming off surgery but he's proven he can be hard for defenders to bring down.  His yac was pretty good.  If Boyle does stay that's 3 weapons at the TE position.

TLDR: It's really all on Joe.  The team around him will potentially be the best cast of pass catchers the Ravens have ever had as a whole.  There won't be a RB or TE that could sub in who isn't a passing threat, and that's what will keep defenses off guard.  Gone will be the days of Leach being in and you just knowing it's a run play

[edthehead]

13 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

In all honesty, pending health of course, there's no reason we shouldn't have a better passing attack in 2016.

Again, this includes healthy but you get a deep threat who, when comparing college tape since that's all we have, should NOT be any worse than Torrey.  Honestly, Perriman's floor should be Torrey from 2012.  I'm still not big on Aiken but he's proved he can play the #2 role at least so that moves SSS to that slot receiver spot.  If Campanero shocks that world and stays healthy, he can play the slot on occasion with SSS opposite Perriman.  Then we have a slew of WRs that can play the #4, #5, and #6 roles well enough.  Butler, D.Brown, and I'm still hoping for something out of Waller.  And this is all before they add someone, likely in the draft.  A Sterling Shepard will do damage in an Antonio Brown type of way although a Tyler Boyd could just dominate at times

We have 4 good receiving backs at the moment.  Forsett, Allen, West, and Juice have all shown they can catch out of the backfield.

Then there's the TEs.  Boyle may or may not be cut but Williams started to come on at the end of the season and as of now he's still the future.  Gillmore will be coming off surgery but he's proven he can be hard for defenders to bring down.  His yac was pretty good.  If Boyle does stay that's 3 weapons at the TE position.

TLDR: It's really all on Joe.  The team around him will potentially be the best cast of pass catchers the Ravens have ever had as a whole.  There won't be a RB or TE that could sub in who isn't a passing threat, and that's what will keep defenses off guard.  Gone will be the days of Leach being in and you just knowing it's a run play

Thank you for saying what I was trying to say,

we have the potential of being a passing offense, possibly a high powered

now I am not saying we are, but all I am seeing is pass catching players,

WR's , TE's , RB's and our FB,

now not being negative HARB say we are run first, yes, but we need to play the cards we have

open it up,   

[scrock]

in our case you have to run the ball to get the passing game going. in some instances if your passing offense is so prolific you can use the pass to kick start the run game but our passing attack is not near those levels. so we hope for a solid performance by our Oline...which is key to both

Edited March 4, 2016 by scrock

[edthehead]

3 hours ago, scrock said:

in our case you have to run the ball to get the passing game going. in some instances if your passing offense is so prolific you can use the pass to kick start the run game but our passing attack is not near those levels. so we hope for a solid performance by our Oline...which is key to both

but I see our RB as average, they are good but they have no traits showing above average skills.  

[Militant X 1]

This article is from 2014 but it applies to the thread topic....

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-offense-1012-20141010-story.html

[edthehead]

I know, I know , I know

ladies and gentlemen,

we are heading towards a west coast offense,

plenty of people that will want the ball(good people not selfish),

SSS is back for his record , now wallace is here after being absent for 3 yrs,

now for me  Ezekiel Elliott aka " EZE E" is starting to grow on me,

think what our offense would look like with him and the formation ,

ZEEK will take our offense to a another level

 

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by Moderator 3
Please don't post silly stuff in Ravens Talk.

[K-Dog]

^^^
Love the Mods note...

 

[Purple Punishment]

1 hour ago, K-Dog said:

^^^
Love the Mods note...

 

[Moderator 3]

10 hours ago, K-Dog said:

^^^
Love the Mods note...

 

I guess that could have been worded better such as: Please don't post non-football memes, gifs, etc. in Ravens Talk so as to help deliver the fastest page loads possible. Asking people not to be silly is probably going too far. 

[usmccharles]

14 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

I guess that could have been worded better such as: Please don't post non-football memes, gifs, etc. in Ravens Talk so as to help deliver the fastest page loads possible. Asking people not to be silly is probably going too far. 

and impossible...

[edthehead]

36 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

I guess that could have been worded better such as: Please don't post non-football memes, gifs, etc. in Ravens Talk so as to help deliver the fastest page loads possible. Asking people not to be silly is probably going too far. 

again you all are given way too much power that was neither offensive,vulgar or threatening in any manner

it was funny and was referring to our offense,being on a whole new level

I have always stated that the moderators here are not fair  

if that meme is posted and just 1 person finds it dis pleasing 

I will write a formal apology.

not fair. 

Edited March 21, 2016 by edthehead

[Halshayeji]

On February 19, 2016 at 8:01 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

Depends on how you define "run first"?

If you define "run first" by running the ball more than we throw it, then we have been a "pass first" team since 2011 (five straight years). 

In my judgment, a "balanced" offensive team would have a pass/run ratio of between 60/40 and 40/60. Last year we threw the ball 64% of the time.

If you want to correlate that with success, if you look back at the last five years, the years where we've been a more "balanced" offense are the years we've succeeded.

2015: 64/36 pass/run ratio

2014: 55/45 pass/run ratio

2013: 59/41 pass/run ratio

2012: 56/44 pass/run ratio

2011: 54/46 pass/run ratio

The years where we had closer pass/run ratio (balanced offense) were the years we made the playoffs. The two years where we were less balanced we did not.

Obviously there's some caveat's here, such as the fact that in 2013 we couldn't run the ball on a high school team, and our defense was so bad for much of last season that running the ball was pointless, so that obviously has an impact on play calling.

My guess would be that our offense will probably be at its best around a 60/40 pass/run ratio given our current talent on that side of the ball.

 

Great post! And the numbers really don't speak of the true story because of the reasons you just listed. I do worry a bit about Trestman and his pass happey mentality. of harbs keeps pushing him to 55/45 is be happey. And of course some games were gonna go 70/30 or vise versa depending on the situation.

 

i just wanted to ask you where you got that information because I'd love to compare cam newton last year to cam as a rookie. Heck if you could post all your trusted sources il gladly use them to dig up stuff lol

[rmcjacket23]

25 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

 

Great post! And the numbers really don't speak of the true story because of the reasons you just listed. I do worry a bit about Trestman and his pass happey mentality. of harbs keeps pushing him to 55/45 is be happey. And of course some games were gonna go 70/30 or vise versa depending on the situation.

 

i just wanted to ask you where you got that information because I'd love to compare cam newton last year to cam as a rookie. Heck if you could post all your trusted sources il gladly use them to dig up stuff lol

Those numbers I just pulled straight off ESPN, but there's plenty of sources online for those type of statistics.

[K-Dog]

1 hour ago, Moderator 3 said:

Asking people not to be silly is probably going too far. 

I guess you could say....

 

 

That would be silly.