[News] Late For Work 2/19: Mel Kiper Has Ravens Drafting Joey Bosa At No. 6

[jravens13]

49 minutes ago, billiejean said:

Buckner is much more explosive than Bosa will ever be. Is Bosa out of your top 10 too?

Are we watching the players? They both played Michigan State this year. Watch their game film on youtube. Bosa was causing nightmares for the QB, and Michigan State never ran at him. Buckner was a non factor in the MSU game, and was getting pushed around. MSU is a great gauge of talent because they have an NFL caliber O-Line. 

Bosa doesn't not cheat technique, or his responsibility, and he is incredible powerful. His motor does not stop, and he beats Tackles and Guards on a regular basis off the edge and against the run. Bosa is much quicker and has more moves in his arsenal than Buckner. Buckner honestly does not get off of blocks and win at the line of scrimmage enough for me. I don't think Buckner has developed the ability to play with good leverage, and I do not think he is worthy a top 10 pick. Buckner played against subpar talent in a pass happy conference. Bosa played against some of the best linemen in the country and might have had the sack record if he played in the Pac 12. Bosa is Suggs 2.0

[billiejean]

34 minutes ago, jravens13 said:

1 hour ago, billiejean said:

Buckner is much more explosive than Bosa will ever be. Is Bosa out of your top 10 too?

Are we watching the players? They both played Michigan State this year. Watch their game film on youtube. Bosa was causing nightmares for the QB, and Michigan State never ran at him. Buckner was a non factor in the MSU game, and was getting pushed around. MSU is a great gauge of talent because they have an NFL caliber O-Line. 

Bosa doesn't not cheat technique, or his responsibility, and he is incredible powerful. His motor does not stop, and he beats Tackles and Guards on a regular basis off the edge and against the run. Bosa is much quicker and has more moves in his arsenal than Buckner. Buckner honestly does not get off of blocks and win at the line of scrimmage enough for me. I don't think Buckner has developed the ability to play with good leverage, and I do not think he is worthy a top 10 pick. Buckner played against subpar talent in a pass happy conference. Bosa played against some of the best linemen in the country and might have had the sack record if he played in the Pac 12. Bosa is Suggs 2.0

Yea Buckner doesn't get as much pressure because he is playing at 3-4 DE while Bosa plays 4-3 DE. When I say explosive I mean quick twitch muscles (suddenness). And yes Buckner is much more explosive than Bosa and if you don't take my word for it, I googled Joe Bosa scouting report, and these were the first seven scouting reports on Bosa.

CBS sports - "Not a quick-twitch rusher and doesn't play with consistent explosion"

musiccitymiracles.com - "Inconsistent explosion off of the line of scrimmage. Lacks some quickness, quick-twitch ability."

NFL.com - "Not as twitchy and sudden as expected. Feet are a little heavy and it takes just a second to accelerate up to speed"

Bleacherreport - "but on base sets as an edge defender, he's going to win with strength, breaking down the will of the right tackle or tight end slowly, not explosive speed"

todayspigskin - Bosa lacks the explosive first step that most of the dominant pass rushers seem to have"

nflmocks.com - "My immediate issue with Bosa is that he’s slow off the line. He knows it too because he over compensates it and gets called off sides multiple times a game."

nflbreakdowns.com - "Above average speed, but not the quick-twitch athlete you want to see from a top-tier prospect.
Due to lack of quick-twitch muscles, he doesn’t (and rarely attempted) covert speed-to-power."

Again I didn't cherry pick these. His lack of explosion really shows up on tape. This doesn't mean he's going to be a bad player, its just that Buckner is much more explosive. That being said Buckner is very raw and can't hold a candle to Bosa's hand placement and technique.  I'm not disagreeing with you over the fact that Bosa is the better prospect, I'm just pointing out that his explosion, suddenness, quick twitch does not match Buckners.

Edited February 19, 2016 by billiejean

[PalmBayRaven]

Every year I try to guess what Ozzie and crew will do.....every year I am wrong. So....in an effort to keep my purple foot out of my mouth in this years draft I say, "go for the guy who will help us the most Oz!", and leave it at that, lol. GO RAVENS!

I'm with you there. We never pick who they say we should pick.

[sami]

personally, i'd rather see us drop down a few, to where we could draft Spence and maybe pick up another 2nd round choice.

[MissRay27]

Looks like Ozzie needs to consider a late round TE pick now. Boyle isn't loyal or too smart for that matter.
Just hope The Wizard and his stellar team hit a home on the first pick no matter what.

[MissRay27]

Every year I try to guess what Ozzie and crew will do.....every year I am wrong. So....in an effort to keep my purple foot out of my mouth in this years draft I say, "go for the guy who will help us the most Oz!", and leave it at that, lol. GO RAVENS!

Agreed sir.

[Drew P]

It appears the Rams have some holes to fill they made some pretty surprising cuts

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, jravens13 said:

 

 

2 minutes ago, Drew P said:

It appears the Rams have some holes to fill they made some pretty surprising cuts

Well, they do have over $50M in cap space now, so that probably won't be too hard.

Not sure any of their cuts were surprising either... been reading about all their potential casualties for awhile, and these three seemed like no brainers.

Will probably allow them to sign both of their good, young corners to long term deals.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

  1 hour ago, jravens13 said:

  2 hours ago, billiejean said:

Buckner is much more explosive than Bosa will ever be. Is Bosa out of your top 10 too?

Are we watching the players? They both played Michigan State this year. Watch their game film on youtube. Bosa was causing nightmares for the QB, and Michigan State never ran at him. Buckner was a non factor in the MSU game, and was getting pushed around. MSU is a great gauge of talent because they have an NFL caliber O-Line. 

Bosa doesn't not cheat technique, or his responsibility, and he is incredible powerful. His motor does not stop, and he beats Tackles and Guards on a regular basis off the edge and against the run. Bosa is much quicker and has more moves in his arsenal than Buckner. Buckner honestly does not get off of blocks and win at the line of scrimmage enough for me. I don't think Buckner has developed the ability to play with good leverage, and I do not think he is worthy a top 10 pick. Buckner played against subpar talent in a pass happy conference. Bosa played against some of the best linemen in the country and might have had the sack record if he played in the Pac 12. Bosa is Suggs 2.0

Yea Buckner doesn't get as much pressure because he is playing at 3-4 DE while Bosa plays 4-3 DE. When I say explosive I mean quick twitch muscles (suddenness). And yes Buckner is much more explosive than Bosa and if you don't take my word for it, I googled Joe Bosa scouting report, and these were the first seven scouting reports on Bosa.

CBS sports - "Not a quick-twitch rusher and doesn't play with consistent explosion"

musiccitymiracles.com - "Inconsistent explosion off of the line of scrimmage. Lacks some quickness, quick-twitch ability."

NFL.com - "Not as twitchy and sudden as expected. Feet are a little heavy and it takes just a second to accelerate up to speed"

Bleacherreport - "but on base sets as an edge defender, he's going to win with strength, breaking down the will of the right tackle or tight end slowly, not explosive speed"

todayspigskin - Bosa lacks the explosive first step that most of the dominant pass rushers seem to have"

nflmocks.com - "My immediate issue with Bosa is that he’s slow off the line. He knows it too because he over compensates it and gets called off sides multiple times a game."

nflbreakdowns.com - "Above average speed, but not the quick-twitch athlete you want to see from a top-tier prospect.
Due to lack of quick-twitch muscles, he doesn’t (and rarely attempted) covert speed-to-power."

Again I didn't cherry pick these. His lack of explosion really shows up on tape. This doesn't mean he's going to be a bad player, its just that Buckner is much more explosive. That being said Buckner is very raw and can't hold a candle to Bosa's hand placement and technique.  I'm not disagreeing with you over the fact that Bosa is the better prospect, I'm just pointing out that his explosion, suddenness, quick twitch does not match Buckners.

Yup. Nailed it. Bosa is a bull rush style pass rusher, He's not got the many moves or quick twitch to juke guys out of their pants. Drafting Bosa would be like a replacement for Upshaw if things go that way. Buckner has moves but not really a bull rush. He is also much more raw and will require some time to get the best he has to offer. Bosa if you want a quick plug and play, or Buckner if you can afford a season of learning before letting things fly. Given the fact Ravens still have Suggs and Dummervil, Buckner makes more sense giving two solid mentors a chance to bring him up to speed. Also I personally think the Ravens coaches are great at developing talent.

[Crusader]

That would be a no. I agree with Bleacher Rpt Dallas will take Bosa. That Pitts win is going to have the Ravens miss out on Bosa and Ramsey.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, Crusader said:

That would be a no. I agree with Bleacher Rpt Dallas will take Bosa. That Pitts win is going to have the Ravens miss out on Bosa and Ramsey.

... or any of the other four games we won...

[Crusader]

Ever notice short names become bigger stars? Joe, Ray, Edd, and Steve. I just can't see Breshad Perriman or Bleacher World 's 2016 Ravens pick having that ring to it. Mackensie Alexander?

[Drew P]

47 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

 

Well, they do have over $50M in cap space now, so that probably won't be too hard.

Not sure any of their cuts were surprising either... been reading about all their potential casualties for awhile, and these three seemed like no brainers.

Will probably allow them to sign both of their good, young corners to long term deals.

Long and Cook were obvious. The Laurinaitus' cap hit wasn't going to be awful considering his age/value to the squad. I believe his cap # is just slightly more than Daryl Smith's. He wont be unemployed very long once FA starts.

[cobrajet]

I love Mel Kiper, I really do, but I think he is a Ravens fan and this is just wishful thinking. I got big money to bet because I have complete confidence that Bosa will not be there at #6.

[cobrajet]

  6 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

  8 hours ago, The Greek said:

something about bosa scares me but if we draft him i hope i am wrong and he has a beast of a career with us

Honestly, in the top 10 I see Tunsil, Bosa, and Buckner as the safest picks you can get regardless of the team that drafts them, which all would fit great here lol

I would also put Jalen Ramsey there.

Absolutely, he who I would grab if I had the #1 pick.

[Ravensfan23]

51 minutes ago, cobrajet said:

I love Mel Kiper, I really do, but I think he is a Ravens fan and this is just wishful thinking. I got big money to bet because I have complete confidence that Bosa will not be there at #6.

Call it wishful thinking on my part too because I actually think Bosa will be there for the Ravens and it'll be a huge pick for Ozzie. First pro bowl 1st round pick in a while. 

I think he'll be there because he won't test well at the combine. What Bosa does well won't show up in track test. He's a football player and much of the same reasons that Suggs dropped to the Ravens, Bosa will as well. 

I think both Buckner and Spence will test through the roof and go in the top 5. Call it the JJ Watt and Von Miller effect, even though i don't see neither player as good as those two pros, teams will fall in love with them in shorts and forget what Bosa did in pads. 

[JetLife94]

I would love bosa at 6! 

[ken_j]

I can't see Bosa, a straight up 4-3 DE who would be asked to rush from the "Rush" OLB position on most of his snaps. If they don't trade out of the 6th pick, I wouldn't be surprised if the Ravens take an OT like Ronnie Stanley from Notre Dame. He is big, athletic and has excellent feet. He can play both LT and RT. He is excellent in both pass protection and run support. Unlike Tunsil and ex-Raven Michael Oher, Stanley is not penalty prone. It is unlikely the Ravens go DE in the first round.

I also would not be surprised if the Ravens go after Cody Whitehair or (more likely) Vidal Alexander in the second round it they are still on the board.

[Matty G]

Lets get Bosa. And for Holgti Ngata, Stay in Detroit, you were always a selfish player and I hope you are not in the ring of honer for the Ravens.

[billiejean]

Lets get Bosa. And for Holgti Ngata, Stay in Detroit, you were always a selfish player and I hope you are not in the ring of honer for the Ravens.

You have no idea what you are talking about. For years Haloti ate up double and triple teams to let Ray and the rest of the backers run free. He will most definitely be in the ring of "honer". I'm not sure where you came up with this notion that he is selfish but it is certainly unfounded.

[rmcjacket23]

15 hours ago, Drew P said:

Long and Cook were obvious. The Laurinaitus' cap hit wasn't going to be awful considering his age/value to the squad. I believe his cap # is just slightly more than Daryl Smith's. He wont be unemployed very long once FA starts.

Yes, but they cut him because he was quite literally one of the worst linebackers in the league last year and has regressed steadily over several years.

[jravens13]

18 hours ago, billiejean said:

Yea Buckner doesn't get as much pressure because he is playing at 3-4 DE while Bosa plays 4-3 DE. When I say explosive I mean quick twitch muscles (suddenness). And yes Buckner is much more explosive than Bosa and if you don't take my word for it, I googled Joe Bosa scouting report, and these were the first seven scouting reports on Bosa.

CBS sports - "Not a quick-twitch rusher and doesn't play with consistent explosion"

musiccitymiracles.com - "Inconsistent explosion off of the line of scrimmage. Lacks some quickness, quick-twitch ability."

NFL.com - "Not as twitchy and sudden as expected. Feet are a little heavy and it takes just a second to accelerate up to speed"

Bleacherreport - "but on base sets as an edge defender, he's going to win with strength, breaking down the will of the right tackle or tight end slowly, not explosive speed"

todayspigskin - Bosa lacks the explosive first step that most of the dominant pass rushers seem to have"

nflmocks.com - "My immediate issue with Bosa is that he’s slow off the line. He knows it too because he over compensates it and gets called off sides multiple times a game."

nflbreakdowns.com - "Above average speed, but not the quick-twitch athlete you want to see from a top-tier prospect.
Due to lack of quick-twitch muscles, he doesn’t (and rarely attempted) covert speed-to-power."

Again I didn't cherry pick these. His lack of explosion really shows up on tape. This doesn't mean he's going to be a bad player, its just that Buckner is much more explosive. That being said Buckner is very raw and can't hold a candle to Bosa's hand placement and technique.  I'm not disagreeing with you over the fact that Bosa is the better prospect, I'm just pointing out that his explosion, suddenness, quick twitch does not match Buckners.

I understand that you think Bosa isn't as fast out the gate as some smaller rushers, but he is 6'6" 275. His style of play is more of a run stuffing, bull rushing/rip technique. He will need to add more moves to his game, but you can't deny how powerful he is, and how he gets after it. And I am telling you that I don't see the explosiveness from Buckner. Maybe he has straight line speed, but he really isn't that quick. He also just throws his shoulders into guys and plays very lazy. Bosa is a lock to be a great contributor in the NFL. Or you could roll the dice in the top 10 for a guy who might be no more than a rotational interior lineman. My hope is that all these "experts" help Bosa fall to No. 6 cause he absolutely manhandled college talent. Buckner is honestly not Top 15 material. Watch Voch Lombardi on youtube: He breaks down both players very well, but also feels like Bosa isn't Von Miller material. Who is lol? 

Edited February 20, 2016 by jravens13

[jravens13]

17 hours ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

Yup. Nailed it. Bosa is a bull rush style pass rusher, He's not got the many moves or quick twitch to juke guys out of their pants. Drafting Bosa would be like a replacement for Upshaw if things go that way. Buckner has moves but not really a bull rush. He is also much more raw and will require some time to get the best he has to offer. Bosa if you want a quick plug and play, or Buckner if you can afford a season of learning before letting things fly. Given the fact Ravens still have Suggs and Dummervil, Buckner makes more sense giving two solid mentors a chance to bring him up to speed. Also I personally think the Ravens coaches are great at developing talent.

Laughable comparison to Upshaw. Buckner can't hold Bosa's jock. It is funny to see how many people already bought the hype. 

[billiejean]

2 hours ago, jravens13 said:

I understand that you think Bosa isn't as fast out the gate as some smaller rushers, but he is 6'6" 275. His style of play is more of a run stuffing, bull rushing/rip technique. He will need to add more moves to his game, but you can't deny how powerful he is, and how he gets after it. And I am telling you that I don't see the explosiveness from Buckner. Maybe he has straight line speed, but he really isn't that quick. He also just throws his shoulders into guys and plays very lazy. Bosa is a lock to be a great contributor in the NFL. Or you could roll the dice in the top 10 for a guy who might be no more than a rotational interior lineman. My hope is that all these "experts" help him Bosa fall to No. 6 cause he absolutely manhandled college talent. Buckner is honestly not Top 15 material. Watch Voch Lombardi on youtube: He breaks down both players very well, but also feels like Bosa isn't Von Miller material. Who is lol? 

 

I will say this again because a lot of what you are saying I agree with.  I would pick Bosa over Buckner at this point if I had to choose.  Im not sure if mentioning his size really supports your arguments because Buckner is 6'7 290 and is as fast if not faster than Bosa.  But what I really disagree with is this line....

"And i am telling you that I don't see the explosiveness from Buckner"  

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean its not there.  It is readily apparent when watching tape of Buckner and Bosa.  And I am not saying that Buckner is the most explosive guy in the world.  He is just more explosive than Bosa.  And again if you don't take my word for it check out these scouting reports.

 

nfl.com - "Quick off the snap and difficult to cut­ off in run game. Long arms and good play speed allow him maximum field coverage to tackle"

walterfootball.com - "Flashes a quick first step"

nflmocks.com - "Buckner is surprisingly quick off the ball for his size. His first step quickness is quite alarming for a man that big, you’ll see him on almost every other play pounce off the ball quicker than his fellow defensive linemen.

todayspigskin.com - "A combination of quickness, strength, and length makes him a force along the defensive line. Quick out of his stance and attacks the offensive lineman placing both hands squarely inside his chest:"

fueledbysports.com - "Quick first step"

bigbluereview.com - "He plays with explosive movements and terrific body control for his size"

nfldraftreport - "but he has that quick burst off the snap and very strong hands needed to pull and jerk down offensive lineman"

breakingfootball.com - " Quick first step"

mockdraftshq.com -"Great first step for his size, better burst than Bosa"

Edited February 20, 2016 by billiejean

[billiejean]

  22 hours ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

Yup. Nailed it. Bosa is a bull rush style pass rusher, He's not got the many moves or quick twitch to juke guys out of their pants. Drafting Bosa would be like a replacement for Upshaw if things go that way. Buckner has moves but not really a bull rush. He is also much more raw and will require some time to get the best he has to offer. Bosa if you want a quick plug and play, or Buckner if you can afford a season of learning before letting things fly. Given the fact Ravens still have Suggs and Dummervil, Buckner makes more sense giving two solid mentors a chance to bring him up to speed. Also I personally think the Ravens coaches are great at developing talent.

Laughable comparison to Upshaw. Buckner can't hold Bosa's jock. It is funny to see how many people already bought the hype. 

And you are on the Bosa hype train, which has been traveling much longer and faster than Buckners. That said Upshaw probably isn't a great comparison. Chris Long is probably a player that Bosa most resembles.

[Halshayeji]

Also, I guarantee you the Boys will not select a QB and will target a player we covet and strike another blow to us. It isn't unrealistic to think JJ has a mole in the Ravens draft room! Has to be considering his football smarts generally speaking...

The Cowboys had one of the worst pass rushes in the NFL and their best performer (hardy) is gone. Why would they pass up on the best 4-3 pass rusher in the class? And how did Mel Kiper assume the Browns pass on Goff for a division 2 QB with the second overall pick?

[Ngat-a Problem]

I hate all things Ohio State just as much as I love the Ravens.  If they draft Bosa I think my head might explode.

[jravens13]

On 2/20/2016 at 9:50 AM, billiejean said:

 

I will say this again because a lot of what you are saying I agree with.  I would pick Bosa over Buckner at this point if I had to choose.  Im not sure if mentioning his size really supports your arguments because Buckner is 6'7 290 and is as fast if not faster than Bosa.  But what I really disagree with is this line....

"And i am telling you that I don't see the explosiveness from Buckner"  

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean its not there.  It is readily apparent when watching tape of Buckner and Bosa.  And I am not saying that Buckner is the most explosive guy in the world.  He is just more explosive than Bosa.  And again if you don't take my word for it check out these scouting reports.

 

nfl.com - "Quick off the snap and difficult to cut­ off in run game. Long arms and good play speed allow him maximum field coverage to tackle"

walterfootball.com - "Flashes a quick first step"

nflmocks.com - "Buckner is surprisingly quick off the ball for his size. His first step quickness is quite alarming for a man that big, you’ll see him on almost every other play pounce off the ball quicker than his fellow defensive linemen.

todayspigskin.com - "A combination of quickness, strength, and length makes him a force along the defensive line. Quick out of his stance and attacks the offensive lineman placing both hands squarely inside his chest:"

fueledbysports.com - "Quick first step"

bigbluereview.com - "He plays with explosive movements and terrific body control for his size"

nfldraftreport - "but he has that quick burst off the snap and very strong hands needed to pull and jerk down offensive lineman"

breakingfootball.com - " Quick first step"

mockdraftshq.com -"Great first step for his size, better burst than Bosa"

I credit you for doing your research on Buckner. I would rather draft a guy who does everything right and never stops grinding over a guy who cheats technique and takes plays off. The "first step" is a non factor for me. I'm just gonna keep my fingers crossed and hope that I am buying a Jaylon Smith, Joey Bosa, or Vernon Hargreaves jersey this year.  

[jravens13]

23 hours ago, billiejean said:

And you are on the Bosa hype train, which has been traveling much longer and faster than Buckners. That said Upshaw probably isn't a great comparison. Chris Long is probably a player that Bosa most resembles.

Go watch how they play on youtube. See who wins the battle at the line of scrimmage and see how they do it. You will understand why I favor Bosa over Buckner. 

[billiejean]

  On February 20, 2016 at 3:24 PM, billiejean said:

And you are on the Bosa hype train, which has been traveling much longer and faster than Buckners. That said Upshaw probably isn't a great comparison. Chris Long is probably a player that Bosa most resembles.

Go watch how they play on youtube. See who wins the battle at the line of scrimmage and see how they do it. You will understand why I favor Bosa over Buckner. 

This is the thing that we agree about my friend. I have watched the tape and as I stated before....
"I will say this again because a lot of what you are saying I agree with. I would pick Bosa over Buckner at this point if I had to choose."