[News] Late For Work 2/18: Maybe Ozzie Newsome Wasn't Bluffing About Joe Flacco Contract

[billiejean]

43 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I think that we must add one vet receiver and a young one in the draft on offense and use the rest of the draft to find gems on the defensive side of the ball. There are a lot of disruptive lineman in this draft so I hope we get a pass rusher or corner in the early rounds then in the next rounds load up on BPA on defense and if Pees can't make something happen then it is undeniably on him and we need to move on. He is not terrible, but inconsistent and has dealt with a lot of injuries.

it really isn't prudent for the FO to go into the draft with a game plan to sign 1 offensive guys and the rest on defense. Although I see posts like this a lot on this forum (some people will even go as far as assigning a specific position to each round).  it is just not how the FO works.  

Edited February 18, 2016 by billiejean

[ellicottraven]

I say we get Carl Nassib late 2nd (via swap) or with our 3rd rounder. He still looks like he's improving and has tons of upside. Also sounds like a Raven with his work ethic and high engine.

He is a Brent Urban clone isn't he?

[robbie29]

The Dennis Pitta situation reminds me a lot of what the Orioles went through with Brian Roberts. Signed a monster contract after several good seasons then winds up missing virtually all of the next 3-4 years due to injury, but is kept on the roster in hopes he might one day regain his form. I love what Dennis has done for the team and realize that, like Roberts, is a good presence in the locker room, but just like Roberts he is going to end up costing the Ravens a bunch of money. Just an unfortunate situation- in both cases.

[ellicottraven]

  1 hour ago, ryananth said:

I say we get Carl Nassib late 2nd (via swap) or with our 3rd rounder. He still looks like he's improving and has tons of upside. Also sounds like a Raven with his work ethic and high engine.

He is a Brent Urban clone isn't he?

I just saw Nassib is about 45 lbs lighter. My bad.

[ellicottraven]

Flacco's record since his contract: 22-22, 1 Playoff appearance in 3 years. 1 playoff win in 3 years. He is now overpaid, but so are most QB's in the NFL. The real issue is the fact that we have not addressed the defensive side of the football near enough since we won the Super Bowl. We have attempted patch up work on major flaws in our defense that have failed us when it matters. We have given some players and coaches too much time to continue to be let downs (Pees, Webb, A. Brown, M. Elam, C. Upshaw, A. Jackson, ). Accept the fact that CB's can only play at a high level for 3-5 years. The Webb contract was just as bad as the Pitta contract. We have drafted only 2 CB's in the 8 first round three rounds in the 8 years under Harbaugh, and we wonder why our CB's can't cover!!!

Hmm... didn't know those stats. I hope you haven't included the games we lost after Flacco was injured? Either way, it is definitely something the Ravens brass is aware of. It just depends on how thick headed and arrogant Joe's agent is regarding his true value. Joe is the best QB for the Ravens right now and into the future. But, we need enough money to give him a great team to be successful. Frankly Joe earned his contract prior to getting it. So, I'm okay with his original contract, but I want him to be paid commensurate with his production from here on out.

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Flacco has a ring and a 10-5 record in the playoffs, if he wants to enter real elite company in those categories then an extension will almost need to happen unless we gut the roster and hope that young guys instantly produce, which I am not fond of. I know his deal was meant to help the cap early on, but Ozzie needs to seek an extension that keeps his number consistently between $18-20 million a year simply because that's what Franchise QBs are getting these days. Anywhere between $6-8 million in savings would do wonders.

There's pretty much no chance he signs a deal that keeps his cap in the $18-20M range. Take note of the fact that if Joe signs an extension this offseason, there's still close to $26M in "dead money" that will carry over to the next contract, and specifically, that $26M is guaranteed to be recognized in the next three years.

So say Joe signs a three year extension worth $18M a year (which would be really low for market standards), he would now have a six year deal worth about $112M, but then you have to add in the $26M in dead money as well, since that carries over.

So from a cap standpoint, that's 6 years at roughly $138M, which means it would average roughly $23M a year.

The goal, realistically, should be to flatten out Joe's cap hit for the next 4-5 years at a number probably around $22-25M a year.

[ellicottraven]

For those that advocate K.O being re-signed to play LT for the Ravens, I don't think the Brass thinks so. Monroe to the surprise of everyone will come back and play at a high level next year and K.O is still best suited to be LG for the Ravens. If the Ravens sign K.O it'll be at LG money, not a dime more.

[robbie29]

  59 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

My argument was never about him being elite. I really don't want to engage in that no-win discussion today. 

I just stated he regressed this past season, more-so b/c of his fundamentals. He threw off his backfoot way more this past 

season than he did in 2014.  A good majority of those throws ending in a pick.  Joe was on pace to have almost a career

high in picks before he got injured. 

It's not all on Joe. Lets get that straight. Our offensive line was shaken up. Yanda and KO was the only consistent starter hence the reason why we need to do everything we can to retain KO. Even if that means reconstructing Monroe's contract because he's been very durable for us and he can move up and down the line. You can't let a quality player like that go and if history states anything, Ravens rarely let that happen. In order for Joe to utilize his mechanics, he needs protection and if he's not getting protected, he WILL throw off his back foot, sacked, throw INT, force passes and not see defenders sitting in throwing lanes. 

Maybe it's not all on Joe, but most of the blame is on him. You cannot deny that he regressed (for example, his QBR was the lowest of his career). His protection was better than any one of his first 6 seasons but he still was on pace to match his career high in INTs. His receiving corps was less than stellar, but an 8-year veteran should be able to figure out how to get the most out of his receivers. It's at least admirable that he was able to complete a high percentage of passes. I've grown pretty weary of people who are quick to deflect blame off Joe when he does poorly. Give credit where credit is due, but you also need to point the finger at the QB when the offense sputters.

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, robbie29 said:

Maybe it's not all on Joe, but most of the blame is on him. You cannot deny that he regressed (for example, his QBR was the lowest of his career). His protection was better than any one of his first 6 seasons but he still was on pace to match his career high in INTs. His receiving corps was less than stellar, but an 8-year veteran should be able to figure out how to get the most out of his receivers. It's at least admirable that he was able to complete a high percentage of passes. I've grown pretty weary of people who are quick to deflect blame off Joe when he does poorly. Give credit where credit is due, but you also need to point the finger at the QB when the offense sputters.

1. Nobody should realistically use QBR as a statistic, because nobody knows what it means.

2. I definitely don't buy that last season was the best season for his offensive line. I actually don't know why anybody would think that. He had better offensive lines in his early years and certainly had a better one in 2014. The names on the back of the jerseys may have been better, but the production wasn't.

3. There's no shortage of Flacco bashers (both reasonable and unreasonable). My issues are mainly that Joe is the same regular season QB we've all seen him be, and that's not likely to change ever. He's a good that when he has decent receivers and a good Oline, he will put up 2011/2014 type numbers. When he has nobody to throw to and a questionable offensive line, he will put up 2013/2015 numbers. Everybody knows this by now, so expecting any deviation from it doesn't seem very logical to me. 

But teams don't really pay QBs to put up big regular season numbers anymore, because they don't really correlate to wins. Putting up good numbers in the postseason correlates to wins, which is what Joe does. 

[PalmBayRaven]

On another note the contract we gave Eugene Monroe is up there for bad deals. Another one who hasn't played up to his contract and whether we keep him or not any way you cut it there is lots dead money.

[TheConquerorWorm]

  1 hour ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Flacco has a ring and a 10-5 record in the playoffs, if he wants to enter real elite company in those categories then an extension will almost need to happen unless we gut the roster and hope that young guys instantly produce, which I am not fond of. I know his deal was meant to help the cap early on, but Ozzie needs to seek an extension that keeps his number consistently between $18-20 million a year simply because that's what Franchise QBs are getting these days. Anywhere between $6-8 million in savings would do wonders.

There's pretty much no chance he signs a deal that keeps his cap in the $18-20M range. Take note of the fact that if Joe signs an extension this offseason, there's still close to $26M in "dead money" that will carry over to the next contract, and specifically, that $26M is guaranteed to be recognized in the next three years.

So say Joe signs a three year extension worth $18M a year (which would be really low for market standards), he would now have a six year deal worth about $112M, but then you have to add in the $26M in dead money as well, since that carries over.

So from a cap standpoint, that's 6 years at roughly $138M, which means it would average roughly $23M a year.

The goal, realistically, should be to flatten out Joe's cap hit for the next 4-5 years at a number probably around $22-25M a year.

That's all taken into account on the restructure/extension. Joe's current bonus is $10.5 million for this year and next. Typically, the players salary is reduced to the minimum and then the old bonus and new bonus are added to that. For instance, Joe signs a 5 year new deal (for X # $) with $ 45 million guaranteed. The contract will be written so that in 2016, Joe's salary is $1 million, his new bonus is $9 million and his old bonus is $10 million = $20 million salary cap this year (simple example). Players don't mind getting the league min for the first or 2nd year because he's getting a $45 million check up front. In Joe's case, his base salary would increase substantially as his "dead money" goes off the books (in this case the 3rd year of the deal). Sugg's first year base salary was $1 million in his extension (now $4.5 million)

[TheConquerorWorm]

  1 hour ago, Space11jams said:

  1 hour ago, 757RavensFan said:

My argument was never about him being elite. I really don't want to engage in that no-win discussion today. 

I just stated he regressed this past season, more-so b/c of his fundamentals. He threw off his backfoot way more this past 

season than he did in 2014.  A good majority of those throws ending in a pick.  Joe was on pace to have almost a career

high in picks before he got injured. 

It's not all on Joe. Lets get that straight. Our offensive line was shaken up. Yanda and KO was the only consistent starter hence the reason why we need to do everything we can to retain KO. Even if that means reconstructing Monroe's contract because he's been very durable for us and he can move up and down the line. You can't let a quality player like that go and if history states anything, Ravens rarely let that happen. In order for Joe to utilize his mechanics, he needs protection and if he's not getting protected, he WILL throw off his back foot, sacked, throw INT, force passes and not see defenders sitting in throwing lanes. 

Maybe it's not all on Joe, but most of the blame is on him. You cannot deny that he regressed (for example, his QBR was the lowest of his career). His protection was better than any one of his first 6 seasons but he still was on pace to match his career high in INTs. His receiving corps was less than stellar, but an 8-year veteran should be able to figure out how to get the most out of his receivers. It's at least admirable that he was able to complete a high percentage of passes. I've grown pretty weary of people who are quick to deflect blame off Joe when he does poorly. Give credit where credit is due, but you also need to point the finger at the QB when the offense sputters.

Cmon man. He lost his Top 2 WR (SSS/Perriman), his Top 2 RB (Forsett/Tailifero), his Top 2 TE (Pitta/Gilmore), his starting LT (Monroe) and his starting C (Zuttah). Of course he is going to regress.

It's a team game and no 1 player gets the blame, when 1 part breaks down typically they all break down. Did Cam lose the Super Bowl because he sucked and is not a good QB or did he suck and have a bad game because Oher couldn't block Von Miller?

[FGSB]

"Depending on the salary cap, that's what will determine when we get to the fourth year, what they're going to have to do, we really viewed this as sort of a three-year deal to make sure the first three years Joe was paid accordingly with the top guys in the league." - Joe Linta, March 5th, 2013

Why am I not surprised Linta was full of it?

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

That's all taken into account on the restructure/extension. Joe's current bonus is $10.5 million for this year and next. Typically, the players salary is reduced to the minimum and then the old bonus and new bonus are added to that. For instance, Joe signs a 5 year new deal (for X # $) with $ 45 million guaranteed. The contract will be written so that in 2016, Joe's salary is $1 million, his new bonus is $9 million and his old bonus is $10 million = $20 million salary cap this year (simple example). Players don't mind getting the league min for the first or 2nd year because he's getting a $45 million check up front. In Joe's case, his base salary would increase substantially as his "dead money" goes off the books (in this case the 3rd year of the deal). Sugg's first year base salary was $1 million in his extension (now $4.5 million)

That's not correct. He's not actually getting a bonus of $10.5M this year... that number is the prorated portion of several bonuses he's already been paid, not what he's set to be paid. You can't restructure a salary or bonus that's already been paid.

From prior paid bonuses, he has a $10.55M cap hit in 2016, a $10.55M cap hit in 2017, and a $4.75M cap hit in 2018. Those amounts are set in stone... there is no contract restructure/extension that will change those amounts.

The only parts of his current deal that can be restructured/changed are the three years of base salaries he has remaining ($18M in 2016, $20.6M in 2017, $20M in 2018).

The three bonus pieces will carry over in the year they are already scheduled for as presently assembled regardless of whatever extension he signs. The only way those amounts will change is if he is released/traded, in which case the remaining bonus cap hits are taken immediately upon release.

RSR does a good job of outlining this here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/01/14/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/joe-flacco-cmon-down/

This shows what a proposed three year extension would look like if signed this offseason. It would basically create a new 6 year deal worth $125M (an average of $20.8M per year). If you'll notice, while the average per year is $20.8M, the average cap hit is $25.1M, and the total cap spending over the period is $150.85M.

$150.85M - $125M = $25.85M... the same amount of the three years of bonuses I outlined above.

If fans want an average CAP HIT of $20M over the next 5-6 years, Joe will have to take an extension for an AAV of probably $17-18M a year or less, which he's not going to do. A realistic range is closer to $25M a year average cap hit over a 5-6 year period. 

[RavensBaltimore]

  3 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

  3 hours ago, PalmBayRaven said:

Joe hasn't played that well since signing that big contract. Over throws, under throws, back foot lobs. I for one would like to see improvement in all those areas and a little more consistency. Yes, he had a great run in playoffs in 2012 but since then has been mediocre at best.

I disagree.  He had his best year as a pro in 2014 (under Kubiak).  He did regress IMO this past season.  

Well he is not the Elite QB that warrants that kind of paycheck. Is he a good QB? Yes. Does he have a strong arm? Yes. Can he read Defenses? Questionable. Don't get me wrong I like Joe Flacco but I have expected more from him and gotten so much less especially last year before getting injured. Yes he did have a good year under Kubiak but still blew it in the playoff game with New England. We had a little time and we didn't need to go for it all on that pass to Torrey. Again famous over throw/under throws and considering what we do pay him I personally don't think he has lived up to it.

It is not questionable at all if Flacco can read defenses. I guarantee you that you will never hear any of his current/former NFL coaches question his ability to do that, nor will you ever hear a credible film analyst question his ability in that reguard. 100% of that noise comes from fans who do not know how to read defenses. And blaming him for "blowing it" in NE makes no sense. He and the offense put up 31 points and built 2 14 point leads. Since 2010, he has played well enough to win the SB in every postseason he's been in. He doesn't have the horrible playoff games like the ones Brady and Manning have on an almost yearly basis. Based on what he's consistently done in the postseason, and based on the fact that he's only missed the postseason when his weapons were decimated by injuries and his defense can't hold leads, he has absolutely earned his contract.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

  3 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

  4 hours ago, PalmBayRaven said:

Joe hasn't played that well since signing that big contract. Over throws, under throws, back foot lobs. I for one would like to see improvement in all those areas and a little more consistency. Yes, he had a great run in playoffs in 2012 but since then has been mediocre at best.

I disagree.  He had his best year as a pro in 2014 (under Kubiak).  He did regress IMO this past season.  

Well he is not the Elite QB that warrants that kind of paycheck. Is he a good QB? Yes. Does he have a strong arm? Yes. Can he read Defenses? Questionable. Don't get me wrong I like Joe Flacco but I have expected more from him and gotten so much less especially last year before getting injured. Yes he did have a good year under Kubiak but still blew it in the playoff game with New England. We had a little time and we didn't need to go for it all on that pass to Torrey. Again famous over throw/under throws and considering what we do pay him I personally don't think he has lived up to it.

You ability to gauge the situation is curious. Joe up until this upcoming season hasn't hurt the team as a result of his contract, and really has been underpaid until now, by design based on the way they put his contract together (willingly). Now its a matter of Joe getting paid the windfall of what was really earned. As for last season yes there were a lot things that did not go well. Doesn't matter who the QB is if you don't consistently have open "enough" receivers/tight ends etc to throw to your not going to get much rhythm going. To be fair the whole team grew a lot throughout the season and it will show up this next season. Can't expect perfection from young players in a single professional season, no matter how skilled. It seems as though you seem to think franchise QB's just magically appear when needed. What about Matt Ryan's 2014 season? Is he overpaid? What about Eli Mannings 2015 season is he overpaid? I guess suddenly when someone experiences hardship they over-hyped or over something automatically. How many lop sided games decided by more than a single score did they lose last season? And no one except for the QB contributed to making mistakes? Right, I don't drink your kool-aid.

[sflegend89]

C'mon now even Joe said it's not a realistic number. That contract is getting re-negotiated. Of course Linta is going to say it doesn't need to change, he's a typical greedy agent who wants a gaudy commission. Ozzie will force a re-structure or inform Linta that his client will be released. That's not a slight against Joe but there isn't a QB in Football worth 28M a year, not even Rodgers or Brady have ever been on the receiving end of that kind of dough.

 

I wouldn't worry about it, Ozzie has all the leverage. Joe is coming off an ACL, wants to restructure, and we have the #6 pick in the draft, Linta isn't going to be able to pull a fast one on this front office.

Edited February 18, 2016 by sflegend89

[hen826957]

@sflegend89 remember that not what Joe gets in terms of money. He get around 18M this year in terms of salary. 28M is his cap number.

[Matty G]

Well the Ravens back loaded contracts and suspect drafting has finally caught up with them. Flacco carries a 28 million dollar cap hit this year and to be honest I hope Ozzy just leaves it be and renegotiate in 2017. One reason is Flacco again has all the leverage and for him to take a cap friendly deal would only push the money down the road and we will be back at the tables in 3 years again. Also, flacco is a great quarter back, but is not worth the contract he was given(granted he kinda had the ravens by the balls at the time, had the Ravens paid earlier we wouldnt be in this situation, but the ravens gambled and lost). If the Ravens wait, the organization will have much better leverage with negotiation in the following year. Also, Flacco did not play well last year and if he has another year like last, the ravens may seriously regret working out an extension at this time. Last note, ravens are in big trouble. Holes in almost every position. This team may be a playoff team next year, but far far from being a super bowl contender. I say we just bite the bullet now

[rmcjacket23]

46 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

C'mon now even Joe said it's not a realistic number. That contract is getting re-negotiated. Of course Linta is going to say it doesn't need to change, he's a typical greedy agent who wants a gaudy commission. Ozzie will force a re-structure or inform Linta that his client will be released. That's not a slight against Joe but there isn't a QB in Football worth 28M a year, not even Rodgers or Brady have ever been on the receiving end of that kind of dough.

 

I wouldn't worry about it, Ozzie has all the leverage. Joe is coming off an ACL, wants to restructure, and we have the #6 pick in the draft, Linta isn't going to be able to pull a fast one on this front office.

LOL, not even close.

1. There's a zero percent chance Joe is getting released if he doesn't restructure. There literally isn't a person on the planet who believes that's even a possibility.

2. If you cut him, he still costs north of $25M against the cap, which is why he's not getting released. There is no decision that can change that from the team's perspective. Joe could become a serial killer tomorrow and get locked up for the rest of his life and he will still cost $25M against the cap in 2016 (and I mean that literally).

3. He's not getting paid $28M... he's getting paid $18M. If you consider the revenue that QBs generate, they're pretty much all worth significantly more than that to the actual franchise. If there were no salary cap, these guys would be making $30-40M easily.

[purpledown]

Sounds like the Ravens are afraid of Flacco and his agent. So looks like another "discount" Ravens roster again this season. However i think a repeat of last season will mean heads will roll.

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, sflegend89 said:

C'mon now even Joe said it's not a realistic number. That contract is getting re-negotiated. Of course Linta is going to say it doesn't need to change, he's a typical greedy agent who wants a gaudy commission. Ozzie will force a re-structure or inform Linta that his client will be released. That's not a slight against Joe but there isn't a QB in Football worth 28M a year, not even Rodgers or Brady have ever been on the receiving end of that kind of dough.

 

I wouldn't worry about it, Ozzie has all the leverage. Joe is coming off an ACL, wants to restructure, and we have the #6 pick in the draft, Linta isn't going to be able to pull a fast one on this front office.

Also, allow me to tear down one of these false notions that no NFL QBs get paid that much ($28M) in any given year:

Joe Flacco made $30M in 2013

Aaron Rodgers made $38.25M in 2013

Tony Romo made $26.5M in 2013

Cam Newton made $24M in 2015

Matt Ryan made $36.5M in 2014

Drew Brees made $40M in 2012

Russell Wilson made $31.7M in 2015

Roethlisberger made $27.7M in 2008 AND made $35.25M in 2015

Eli Manning made $32.5M in 2010 AND made $37M in 2015

Philip Rivers made $32M in 2015

Peyton Manning, absurdly, made $35M all the way back in 2004

 

 

[PalmBayRaven]

Well the Ravens back loaded contracts and suspect drafting has finally caught up with them. Flacco carries a 28 million dollar cap hit this year and to be honest I hope Ozzy just leaves it be and renegotiate in 2017. One reason is Flacco again has all the leverage and for him to take a cap friendly deal would only push the money down the road and we will be back at the tables in 3 years again. Also, flacco is a great quarter back, but is not worth the contract he was given(granted he kinda had the ravens by the balls at the time, had the Ravens paid earlier we wouldnt be in this situation, but the ravens gambled and lost). If the Ravens wait, the organization will have much better leverage with negotiation in the following year. Also, Flacco did not play well last year and if he has another year like last, the ravens may seriously regret working out an extension at this time. Last note, ravens are in big trouble. Holes in almost every position. This team may be a playoff team next year, but far far from being a super bowl contender. I say we just bite the bullet now

I agree with you. Would rather eat it for a year than have to deal with it for 3-4 years with a bad contract. Just face it, Flacco sucked last year even before he got hurt. Those back foot lobs killed me. I really expected so much more from him being a 8 year veteran and his lack of progression is disappointing. After all we had the "Quarterback Whisperer" and he was going to make Joe so much better. Didn't happen. Will see this year? Won't be able to blame another new coordinator or a new system blah, blah, blah. Seems to me the really good ones always get it done despite the obstacles. I get so tired of slow starts and the Defense gets worn down trying to keep us in the game and by the time the Offense gets going the Defense is done. What was Joe's Wonderlic score? Might explain it.
Maybe the Oz and the FO knows something we don't and that's why their willing to payout the current contract. Nobody is above the Team, even Joe Flacco and he has to play better than last year that's all there is to it. Nobody wants the quarterback merry go round again but we don't need to throw good money after bad either. We did win a Super Bowl with a serviceable QB Trent Dilfer. We were the first team to cut a starting QB after winning the Super Bowl ever.

[rmcjacket23]

14 minutes ago, PalmBayRaven said:

I agree with you. Would rather eat it for a year than have to deal with it for 3-4 years with a bad contract. Just face it, Flacco sucked last year even before he got hurt. Those back foot lobs killed me. I really expected so much more from him being a 8 year veteran and his lack of progression is disappointing. After all we had the "Quarterback Whisperer" and he was going to make Joe so much better. Didn't happen. Will see this year? Won't be able to blame another new coordinator or a new system blah, blah, blah. Seems to me the really good ones always get it done despite the obstacles. I get so tired of slow starts and the Defense gets worn down trying to keep us in the game and by the time the Offense gets going the Defense is done. What was Joe's Wonderlic score? Might explain it.
Maybe the Oz and the FO knows something we don't and that's why their willing to payout the current contract. Nobody is above the Team, even Joe Flacco and he has to play better than last year that's all there is to it. Nobody wants the quarterback merry go round again but we don't need to throw good money after bad either. We did win a Super Bowl with a serviceable QB Trent Dilfer. We were the first team to cut a starting QB after winning the Super Bowl ever.

Well, I mean Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady this past season alone are examples of great QBs who just simply didn't get it done when stacked with obstacles.

Kind of a myth that the great ones always play great and overcome everything all the time. 

I get tired of the slow starts too, but then again, in recent years, I get tired of the offense finding the end zone 4-5 times in a game and still losing. We've lost four games in the last two years when we score at least 30 points.

Moral of the story...team game. The best QBs aren't winning anything without great performances from other units on the team.

[bozo]

we cant field the same defense as last year, and we need to improve the receivers or its last place next year.

[budman]

20 hours ago, PalmBayRaven said:

Well he is not the Elite QB that warrants that kind of paycheck. Is he a good QB? Yes. Does he have a strong arm? Yes. Can he read Defenses? Questionable. Don't get me wrong I like Joe Flacco but I have expected more from him and gotten so much less especially last year before getting injured. Yes he did have a good year under Kubiak but still blew it in the playoff game with New England. We had a little time and we didn't need to go for it all on that pass to Torrey. Again famous over throw/under throws and considering what we do pay him I personally don't think he has lived up to it.

Disagree. Flacco is not getting "Elite" Qb pay. He is getting what the Qb position is dictating around the league. Look at the pay for a Qb if he is franchised and that pretty much tells you what the positions "average" is. Not to mention that he has won a Superbowl, MVP of that Superbowl, and his playoff record in general. If you look around the league at players like Stafford, Dalton, Cutler, Rivers they are paid along the lines yet have really won nothing.Heck, just wait and see what Cousins gets this year. It's just what the position is dictating.

[J.O.14]

Well the Ravens back loaded contracts and suspect drafting has finally caught up with them. Flacco carries a 28 million dollar cap hit this year and to be honest I hope Ozzy just leaves it be and renegotiate in 2017. One reason is Flacco again has all the leverage and for him to take a cap friendly deal would only push the money down the road and we will be back at the tables in 3 years again. Also, flacco is a great quarter back, but is not worth the contract he was given(granted he kinda had the ravens by the balls at the time, had the Ravens paid earlier we wouldnt be in this situation, but the ravens gambled and lost). If the Ravens wait, the organization will have much better leverage with negotiation in the following year. Also, Flacco did not play well last year and if he has another year like last, the ravens may seriously regret working out an extension at this time. Last note, ravens are in big trouble. Holes in almost every position. This team may be a playoff team next year, but far far from being a super bowl contender. I say we just bite the bullet now

The ravens offered Joe a contract before the 2012 season in the 17 mil/year range. Joe was the one who gambled, and it paid off big time. The ravens had absolutely no choice but to pay Flacco. Flacco earned his contract, whether people believe it or not. If you look at QBs getting paid now, Flacco has done a lot more than they have and they are still getting paid like Flacco. That's just the NFL now. Flacco may give us relief, but he is still gong to be making around 19-21 million yearly.

All of you can keep complaining about his contract, but just wait until you see what Cousins and Osweiler are about to make.

Osweiler might get somewhere between 15-20 million for starting 6 games in his career....

[J.O.14]

C'mon now even Joe said it's not a realistic number. That contract is getting re-negotiated. Of course Linta is going to say it doesn't need to change, he's a typical greedy agent who wants a gaudy commission. Ozzie will force a re-structure or inform Linta that his client will be released. That's not a slight against Joe but there isn't a QB in Football worth 28M a year, not even Rodgers or Brady have ever been on the receiving end of that kind of dough.

 

I wouldn't worry about it, Ozzie has all the leverage. Joe is coming off an ACL, wants to restructure, and we have the #6 pick in the draft, Linta isn't going to be able to pull a fast one on this front office.

Where does Ozzie have leverage? Actually, he has pretty much no leverage at all. Flacco doesn't have to do a single thing with his contract if he doesn't want to. As I have said before, the Ravens made this bed, now we lay in it. We aren't going to cut him (would be a ton of dead money, and he is our franchise QB), and Flacco said he is willing ot restructure, but I'm sure he will want to benefit from the restructure as well.

[budman]

20 hours ago, PalmBayRaven said:

On another note the contract we gave Eugene Monroe is up there for bad deals. Another one who hasn't played up to his contract and whether we keep him or not any way you cut it there is lots dead money.

Actually, at the time we signed Monroe, he hadn't missed a start in his career while in Seattle. He was considered 1 of the top 5 LT's in the league so at the time signing him to the extension was a good move. Lot of games missed and injuries since but really nobody has a crystal ball. Maybe that shows how tough it is playing in the AFC North is. I don't know why all the missed games since.

Edited February 19, 2016 by budman

[rmcjacket23]

13 minutes ago, budman said:

Actually, at the time we signed Monroe, he hadn't missed a start in his career while in Seattle. He was considered 1 of the top 5 LT's in the league so at the time signing him to the extension was a good move. Lot of games missed and injuries since but really nobody has a crystal ball. Maybe that shows how tough it is playing in the AFC North is. I don't know why all the missed games since.

Yeah, that's not really true (though I am a Monroe supporter).

1. Semantics, but he played for the Jags, not Seattle.

2. I don't think anybody ever thought he was top 5. The biggest reason I doubt this is the case is because the Jags drafted him 8th overall in 2009. And then, four years later, they decided it was time to use the #2 overall pick in 2013 on another LT. 

Now, one would obviously have to question the productivity of a player when a team who invested a top 10 pick in him looks to replace him with another high draft pick within four years of drafting him.

Now, generally speaking, I thought he was a pretty good LT, and at the time I thought it was a steal of a trade for us, but I never considered him a top 5 LT (nor was he or is he being paid like one). Maybe a back-end top 10 guy, but no higher than that.

Typically I'd argue that it could have been a case of a team not having the cap space to sign him to an extension due to his price tag, but the Jags have pretty much annually had tons of cap space, and that certainly wasn't a problem in 2013 when they drafted Joeckel.