[News] Late For Work 2/15: Matt Forte Fits Ravens, But Only On The Surface

[bigcatfrank1]

Joe is getting close to working on a deal,(word) that is definitely going to help. I'm hoping we get some inside news on it. It would be great to know something by opening of FA. I think Tucker will probably go Franchise. He figures to make that anywhere he would go and the Ravens know it. We need his production and we can only expect it to be the same next year. KO would be an incredible deal if it could be worked out. I would have to agree that it should be top of the list in negotiations. However, If Joe's deal isn't done and there is a hesitance by Oz and the FO with some of these mid level guys, I cant't see them having the available cap space. One question I have for some of you gurus out there, does a deal with Tucker, if its a franchise deal, have to be done by a certain date in FA? This again will carry weight against the space and a KO deal. If no KO deal- then go WR ( that my friends is for mcjinxst23) lol happy Monday!

[bigcatfrank1]

As far as the Draft my picks look like this- Ravens go Ist choice Ramsey -CB/S , Stanley LT, or Joey Bosa DE.

[bigcatfrank1]

  10 hours ago, balfan23 said:

The guy said "of course thats not going to happen" ... so why beat him up? All he seems to be saying is, it would be nice, but it isn't going to happen, so it wouldn't appear he's living in a fantasy world. Court doesn't always have to be in session. 

Past history mostly. He's one of the guys going around saying guys we should sign as FAs despite the fact that those guys aren't actually going to be FAs.

We've discussed this at nauseum. If fans are expecting us to significantly upgrade WR via FA this offseason then disappointment should be expected. When guys like Travis Benjamin and Reuben Randle and among the best WRs available on the market, you know it's a bad market. And it's not like there's much expectation of quality WRs getting cut either.

 

Let me address your attack with some facts, I made a mistake on a post about 2 young WR receivers who I was using as examples of the talent I think the Ravens should be looking for. You were the one who asked for names...I was trying to be courteous. They have completed their 3rd year in the NFL and often after 3 years a rookie contract is in RFA, now I don't have all the info, I admitted that during my post however my point is about the need of the Ravens NOT THE ACTUAL PLAYER because those things are very inside the lines, I believe that agents, FO and teams know a lot more than most do about what is going down. So, let us move on the the players that are available since I DID give you some examples that you said "give me ONE example of a WR in FA" . Lets take Rueben Randle, Rueben had nearly 1000 yds 2014, then almost 800 last year and that was playing 2-3rd behind Odell Beckham and Victor Cruz. He scored 8 TD's and had 35 first downs. That production is Torrey Smith type production without the drops.

[hen826957]

I think either Joey Bosa or Ramsey will be a Raven. Every year in the NFL draft there always NFL teams pick a player that will scratch your head or a player slip down. For ex: The Cowboys might take a Qb with the first pick making thinking they will go with another position you never know and that's why l can see them have a chance to slip with us.

[Halshayeji]

12 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

The Patriots aren't wizards and maficians eiter - they are just capitalizing on a lucky constellation: Belichick and Brady. Belichick is a class on his own in coming up with masterplans tailored exactly to maximize the potentiel of the roster he has - and Brady is excellent in utilizing the few but quality weapons he has. And that's it. That's the magic behind the Pats' unusually long streak. I guarantee you that once this tandem breaks for a considerable part of a season, the Pats are suddenly gonna look like an "ordinary" NFL team. And if it's Belichick that's out, the Pats are gonna go down like a concrete slab in water - because the way the Pats operate can only be successful under a guy like him. Nobody else can successfully manage a so under-talented O this long. Basically, all they need is 2 good receivers and one short-yardage running back and Brady - and there you have it. Brady has Edelman and Gronkowski to throw to, and Blunt to convert 3rd-and-shorts... And this formula can even carry a mediocre D - so, when they happen to have a good D, it's a bonus.

The real difference between the Pats and the Ravens is in the philosophy: while Belichick never has any "preset" preferences and dogmas, it's only the available roster he cares about, the Ravens have been trying to shape the roster and game philosophy along hazy buzzwords, like "the Ravens Defense" and "Ravens football" - even after most of the players that could make it work, were long gone. The only D player still around of those we still like to call the "Ravens way of D" is Suggs. Nobody else. Still we're trying to recapture the "Old Ravens D". In the meantime, we have a Flacco, and all we would have to provide him with is a little permanence on that side of the ball. But no, the Rasens O has always been treated like the little brother of the D. OC's coming and going season after season, his top weapons constantly changing, favouring the D side with the top rounds in the draft most of the time... While the Pats and Belcihick realized that if you're lucky enough to have a stable franchise QB you MUST provide him with some consistence, the Ravens seem to have been unable to realize how to treat - and more importantly, optimally utilize... - a franchise QB... We're still trying to make this team a defense first team, although most of what made us a truly great D in tha past is long gone - and the rules have been constantly moving towards favouring the offenses and allow the defenses less and less of what made the legendary Ravens D's so damn good.

I think what the Ravens would need the most is someone realize they have been forgetting to change the calendars in the Castle, and they still work like it's 2000...

Great post! 

Id like to add that as much as I hate the patriots they are pritty smart when they shake up their lineup. They are one of the best at taking calculated risks. Just last year, they made a few great under the radar moves near the deadline that really filled all their remaining holes and made a nice playoff run.

 

its also unfair to compare any team with them because they have a HOF QB that gets paid less than half his market value. Usually have a goto receiver that makes about half what a goto WR makes (Edleman). I say it's unfair to compare them to other teams because that wouldn't happen on any other squad. Brady and edleman make up for that lost cash in endorcement money and for brady, he really doesn't need it as his public appearances alone make him millions.

 

at any given year, the patriots GM has the luxory of paying his HOF QB and his GOTO WR about 15 percent of the cap vs 30-35 what it would cost most other teams. Welker, and moss also fell into that same category when they were there. 

[Halshayeji]

15 hours ago, The Greek said:

if derrick henry is available in the second rd when we pick is he worth drafting knowing he is the physical bruising back we have lacked in a while or do we continue to work on the defense which we all know needs youth at olb, mlb and could use a cb. what do you all think?

 

15 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I don't think we use an early round pick on a RB.

Henry I'm not really a fan of anyway...think he only gets what's blocked for him.

 

14 hours ago, ravensnj said:

Henry will be a huge BUST! Can you say Trent Richardson, but slower?

Henry is an intriguing prospect. If he runs a 4.6 at the combine then he probably falls to the end of the second round or maybe even the third. If he runs a 4.5 or less then he may go 20-30 in the first round and start day 1 for a playoff contender. 

 

He's no Todd gurley by any means but I wouldn't compare him to Richardson either. If he gets drafted in the top 5 and goes to the Browns then yes he will be a bust lol. I'd say he's a better version of Eddie lacy with less fat and better work ethics.

 

i disagree with you partially RMC as I'm a big fan of this guy and have literally seen him mature so much as a runner over the past 2 years. Part of it is a product of that line but also a big part of it is his patience behind that line and his vision. On highlights the guy seems slow but that's because hes a huge guy. His legs seem like they're moving slowly but every step he takes is a step and a half to most people. (He can glide ten yards with 4 steps) He's breakaway speed dazzles me for a guy that size and his agility and change of direction are so rare for his size. 

 

Unfortunately, I also don't see our FO taking him in the second because we have already invested heavily on the position. A third rounder, a fourth rounder, and a pro bowler. Just the presence of henry would mean that we junk one of those guys. Even tho adding Henry to the RB rotation would be a slight upgrade at the position, the real price we pay is ignoring another position where we need to upgrade vs want to upgrade with an early second round pick. 

 

Henry would certainly be an interesting curve ball if we take him but I don't see it happening. Because we could get a starting CB, lineman, or pass rusher that early in the second round. Not because Henry is a "BUST or Richardson 2.0"

 

iv seen ozzie throw curve balls before and wouldn't completely eliminate that happening as just a few years ago Ozzie took an Alabama guy (Mosley) with our first round after locking up D.Smith and had traded up for a MLB the year prior (A.Brown) and look how that turned out

 

Edited February 16, 2016 by Halshayeji

[Halshayeji]

4 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

As far as the Draft my picks look like this- Ravens go Ist choice Ramsey -CB/S , Stanley LT, or Joey Bosa DE.

You know how every year we look at the board and say "I hope player a, b, and c are there when we draft coz it would be good value and Id be happey with either one"?

its still early but this year I see 5 guys absolutely worthy of top 5 and we draft 6th. The only way none of them fall to us is if none of the 5 teams ahead of us take a quarterback and no one trades up and no one reaches for a guy. That's unlikely but if it happens.......

I swear id take Goff with our pick and make every quarterback desperate team beg for the clear cut best quarterback in this class. If no one throws a basket of picks at us then il gladly keep goff as the best backup in the NFL in case Joe goes down again. No more circus if Joe goes down until he's 35 as we'd have full coverage on our Bently.

[The Greek]

maybe the secondary as a whole will be much improved and in sync with leslie frazier coaching them

[rmcjacket23]

8 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

Let me address your attack with some facts, I made a mistake on a post about 2 young WR receivers who I was using as examples of the talent I think the Ravens should be looking for. You were the one who asked for names...I was trying to be courteous. They have completed their 3rd year in the NFL and often after 3 years a rookie contract is in RFA, now I don't have all the info, I admitted that during my post however my point is about the need of the Ravens NOT THE ACTUAL PLAYER because those things are very inside the lines, I believe that agents, FO and teams know a lot more than most do about what is going down. So, let us move on the the players that are available since I DID give you some examples that you said "give me ONE example of a WR in FA" . Lets take Rueben Randle, Rueben had nearly 1000 yds 2014, then almost 800 last year and that was playing 2-3rd behind Odell Beckham and Victor Cruz. He scored 8 TD's and had 35 first downs. That production is Torrey Smith type production without the drops.

1. You saying that "often after 3 years a rookie contract is in RFA" is not even remotely true though, which is the problem. You didn't bother doing the research... you just made a claim or an assumption and ran with it. All draft picks, under the new CBA, sign 4 year contracts (with a 5th year option for 1st round picks), and when they expire, they would be UFAs, not RFAs. In order to be an RFA, they would have had to have had three accrued seasons but NOT 4, which isn't really all that common. That's why you see a lot of RFAs these days were signed as undrafted free agents, or are players who were released from their rookie contract and have three accrued seasons but not four. That's how we got Will Hill... he was cut after two years into his rookie deal with the Giants, he signed a one year deal with the Ravens in 2014, and he was a RFA last season. We signed him to a short extension after that.

If you notice, of the 4 RFAs we have this offseason, all four of them were undrafted. As a general rule of thumb, if a player gets drafted and actually plays out his rookie deal, he will never be an RFA in his career.

2. You unknowingly just described Kamar Aiken when comparing Reuben Randle. The production is just about the same and one of them will be significantly cheaper and we can retain the rights to.

Victor Cruz also hasn't played in two years, so Randle has been the #2 during that time. He's the #2 in a pass-heavy offense built in getting high production out of WRs, and he put up Kamar Aiken numbers.

I don't see what skill set he brings to the team that one of our other top 3 receivers on the team doesn't have, and he may end up costing more than any of them. The fact that we are talking about him as one of the better options on the FA market pretty much cements my entire argument.

Edited February 16, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[bigcatfrank1]

  20 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

Let me address your attack with some facts, I made a mistake on a post about 2 young WR receivers who I was using as examples of the talent I think the Ravens should be looking for. You were the one who asked for names...I was trying to be courteous. They have completed their 3rd year in the NFL and often after 3 years a rookie contract is in RFA, now I don't have all the info, I admitted that during my post however my point is about the need of the Ravens NOT THE ACTUAL PLAYER because those things are very inside the lines, I believe that agents, FO and teams know a lot more than most do about what is going down. So, let us move on the the players that are available since I DID give you some examples that you said "give me ONE example of a WR in FA" . Lets take Rueben Randle, Rueben had nearly 1000 yds 2014, then almost 800 last year and that was playing 2-3rd behind Odell Beckham and Victor Cruz. He scored 8 TD's and had 35 first downs. That production is Torrey Smith type production without the drops.

1. You saying that "often after 3 years a rookie contract is in RFA" is not even remotely true though, which is the problem. You didn't bother doing the research... you just made a claim or an assumption and ran with it. All draft picks, under the new CBA, sign 4 year contracts (with a 5th year option for 1st round picks), and when they expire, they would be UFAs, not RFAs. In order to be an RFA, they would have had to have had three accrued seasons but NOT 4, which isn't really all that common. That's why you see a lot of RFAs these days were signed as unrestricted free agents, or are players who were released from their rookie contract and have three accrued seasons but not four. 

2. You unknowingly just described Kamar Aiken when comparing Reuben Randle. The production is just about the same and one of them will be significantly cheaper and we can retain the rights to.

Victor Cruz also hasn't played in two years, so Randle has been the #2 during that time. He's the #2 in a pass-heavy offense built in getting high production out of WRs, and he put up Kamar Aiken numbers.

I don't see what skill set he brings to the team that one of our other top 3 receivers on the team doesn't have, and he may end up costing more than any of them. The fact that we are talking about him as one of the better options on the FA market pretty much cements my entire argument.

You really hate being wrong dont you...go back and take a look at Torry Smiths numbers. Aiken is nowhere near the 4 years that Randle has had. I did not say anything about getting rid of Aiken in the first place. You are wrong and you need to wise up. you dont agree, just say and and move on. As far as the 3 year RFA I already covered that issue.

[rmcjacket23]

13 minutes ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

You really hate being wrong dont you...go back and take a look at Torry Smiths numbers. Aiken is nowhere near the 4 years that Randle has had. I did not say anything about getting rid of Aiken in the first place. You are wrong and you need to wise up. you dont agree, just say and and move on. As far as the 3 year RFA I already covered that issue.

Aikens numbers last season were as good as anything Randle has shown...that's all that matters. Randle would walk in tomorrow as no better than 3rd on the depth chart.

As for the RFA,  the only thing you covered was how little you understand the process. The large majority of drafted rookie contract players will never, ever, be RFAs.  

They basically have to be cut from their rookie deal in order to become an RFA, and #1 or #2 type WRs don't get cut from rookie deals.

And for the record, if I went back and looked at Torreys numbers, I wouldn't be that impressed with them, as I wasn't then and I'm not now. 2013 was the only year where I thought he was impressive. He's a largely one dimensional WR who will catch maybe 3-4 balls a game. That's what he's been throughout his career.

If that's what we are shooting for, then our offense won't be substantially better, so better off spending that money elsewhere.

 

[BmoreBird22]

On 2/15/2016 at 3:47 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

Considering Boldin and Steve are practically the same players in terms of skill sets, the production wouldn't be that great.

Have to disagree here in terms of skill set, but I would agree it isn't gonna do much good to have two receivers that old on the same offense.

But I'm curious- you know that this portion of the board is less educated/knowledgeable of the nuances of the NFL and aren't likely to listen to you. Do you actually get any pleasure out of wasting your breath?

Edited February 17, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[riseNConquer81]

"As ESPN’s Jamison Hensley points out, Forte criticized Trestman after the head coach left Chicago for not being aggressive enough and losing control of some players"

Trestman's a coordinator here, not a head coach. not his job to control players in the first place.

but we shouldnt be going after Forte anyway though, we do have bigger needs.