[News] Eisenberg: Broncos Not A Template For Ravens Success

[The Greek]

osemele is the #1 priority this offseason.

[NCMan]

  16 hours ago, NCMan said:

Too bad facts and stats don't back you up on that.

Umm, actually, literally all of them do.

Might want to actually look at the stats first...

Don't need to. You might want to word your statement differently, perhaps.

[rmcjacket23]

16 minutes ago, NCMan said:

Don't need to. You might want to word your statement differently, perhaps.

Nope I'm good. The numbers are what they are. They speak for themselves.

[Ravens_Flock]

*Sigh*....sorry, but if that's honestly how the Ravens view themselves now, "Joe Flacco's team"....they're hitching their cart to the wrong horse. He had his SB run. That's it. He has continued to be incredibly uneven since. And we NEED to rebuild what has been an incredibly bad defense (for the most part, outside of 2014's pass rush), since 2012. No coincidence what that year happens to coincide with either. The Ravens have always ever been about a strong run game, and a strong defense. We have lacked the the run game part 2 out of the last 4 seasons, and the secondary, at least, has been VERY bad since 2013. As in a hot mess.

If the Ravens really don't think they need to to build the team around the run and the D anymore, they're in for a continued rude awakening. Joe Flacco is not Drew Brees. He's not Aaron Rogers. And he's not Tom Brady (as sick as that makes me to pay that man a compliment). Joe is Joe, and he's never going to put up the kind of numbers to justify "building the team around him".

[JacktheRaven]

*Sigh*....sorry, but if that's honestly how the Ravens view themselves now, "Joe Flacco's team"....they're hitching their cart to the wrong horse. He had his SB run. That's it. He has continued to be incredibly uneven since. And we NEED to rebuild what has been an incredibly bad defense (for the most part, outside of 2014's pass rush), since 2012. No coincidence what that year happens to coincide with either. The Ravens have always ever been about a strong run game, and a strong defense. We have lacked the the run game part 2 out of the last 4 seasons, and the secondary, at least, has been VERY bad since 2013. As in a hot mess.

If the Ravens really don't think they need to to build the team around the run and the D anymore, they're in for a continued rude awakening. Joe Flacco is not Drew Brees. He's not Aaron Rogers. And he's not Tom Brady (as sick as that makes me to pay that man a compliment). Joe is Joe, and he's never going to put up the kind of numbers to justify "building the team around him".

Maybe leave the predictions to the experts. " he's had his SB run. That's it" How the hell do you know! Where does it say that Brees & Rodgers have won more games & playoff games than Joe?

[rmcjacket23]

15 minutes ago, Ravens_Flock said:

*Sigh*....sorry, but if that's honestly how the Ravens view themselves now, "Joe Flacco's team"....they're hitching their cart to the wrong horse. He had his SB run. That's it. He has continued to be incredibly uneven since. And we NEED to rebuild what has been an incredibly bad defense (for the most part, outside of 2014's pass rush), since 2012. No coincidence what that year happens to coincide with either. The Ravens have always ever been about a strong run game, and a strong defense. We have lacked the the run game part 2 out of the last 4 seasons, and the secondary, at least, has been VERY bad since 2013. As in a hot mess.

If the Ravens really don't think they need to to build the team around the run and the D anymore, they're in for a continued rude awakening. Joe Flacco is not Drew Brees. He's not Aaron Rogers. And he's not Tom Brady (as sick as that makes me to pay that man a compliment). Joe is Joe, and he's never going to put up the kind of numbers to justify "building the team around him".

Partially agree and partially disagree.

1. The 2012 Ravens defense was nothing special. They were highly inconsistent and a lot of the "name" players on that team weren't major contributors. The offense was the best unit on that team.

2. I think we can and still will run the ball effectively, but it makes no sense to go back to a 2008 style running game. We need a balanced offense that plays to the strengths of everyone, and I think we are heading in the right direction there.

3. We need to improve on defense, no question. But we certainly don't need a Seattle/Denver level defense in order to win a SB. 

The goal in my eyes is to build a balanced team. Good on both sides of the ball, not necessarily great on both.

[b93333]

The premise of the article is that Mike Preston got it wrong in calling for building the defense into one to be feared. Preston is more than correct. A fierce defense coupled with a good offensive line will succeed every time. That is the ticket and Preston is right this time.

[Tenacious Faulker]

I've also seen mention of the Raven using Denver's defense as a template for success, but that's an incorrect assumption. Firstly, if anything Denver's D used the Ravens defensive scheme. Gary Kubiak as said he learned from his time in Baltimore. Since he was primarily an offensive genius, he had to learn how to field a better defense which had been his Achillies heel in the playoffs with the Texans. The Ravens have long used a high-pressure pass rush to force QB's into making mistakes and giving turnovers even to a middling secondary. That's been the Ravens formula at least as long as as Ed Reed was on the decline and Dean Pees has been our DC. The trick is 1) getting the most out of your secondary, 2) team health. It just happens that the Broncos enjoyed both great team health and affordable play-makers in their secondary. That's been the key and why even a depleted Ravens defense can still rank 2nd last year in the last 8 games of the season.

People need to realize that the Ravens are great innovators and fans should also realize that the time of a stingy, defense like 200 or 2006 are almost impossible to reproduce given the pass-happy rules of the NFL.

[harfordravenfan]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Partially agree and partially disagree.

1. The 2012 Ravens defense was nothing special. They were highly inconsistent and a lot of the "name" players on that team weren't major contributors. The offense was the best unit on that team.

2. I think we can and still will run the ball effectively, but it makes no sense to go back to a 2008 style running game. We need a balanced offense that plays to the strengths of everyone, and I think we are heading in the right direction there.

3. We need to improve on defense, no question. But we certainly don't need a Seattle/Denver level defense in order to win a SB. 

The goal in my eyes is to build a balanced team. Good on both sides of the ball, not necessarily great on both.

Well said and I also see the fo wanting a balanced team all around not just offense/defense but run/pass, cover/pass rush... Being able to do everything good, not 1-2 parts of the game great

[bozo]

the smart thing to to is let joe go and use the money to bye other players.joe is no bargin.

[hen826957]

@FloridalovesRavens What I'm saying is that in these last couple of years Ozzie has done a poor job at managing contracts to players that is either underperforming or have injury issues like sign Pitta, Monroe, and Smith (time will tell), etc to big contracts and that's why we always almost over the cap every year and this year is the year they need a big time free agent that could boost our team but can't afford. I will still trust Ozzie and company to make the decisions its just these last couple of years it's just bad moves.

[RavensBaltimore]

*Sigh*....sorry, but if that's honestly how the Ravens view themselves now, "Joe Flacco's team"....they're hitching their cart to the wrong horse. He had his SB run. That's it. He has continued to be incredibly uneven since. And we NEED to rebuild what has been an incredibly bad defense (for the most part, outside of 2014's pass rush), since 2012. No coincidence what that year happens to coincide with either. The Ravens have always ever been about a strong run game, and a strong defense. We have lacked the the run game part 2 out of the last 4 seasons, and the secondary, at least, has been VERY bad since 2013. As in a hot mess.

If the Ravens really don't think they need to to build the team around the run and the D anymore, they're in for a continued rude awakening. Joe Flacco is not Drew Brees. He's not Aaron Rogers. And he's not Tom Brady (as sick as that makes me to pay that man a compliment). Joe is Joe, and he's never going to put up the kind of numbers to justify "building the team around him".

Flacco has won more playoff games than anyone since coming into the league, and he has the best playoff stats since entering his prime in 2010. It wasn't just one SB run, and he's still in his prime, so there's no reason to believe he can't do it again. In the 2 seasons we've failed to make the playoffs, our receiving corps was decimated by injuries, and probably the worst in the entire league, so it makes no sense to say we can't win by building around Joe. You say he's not Brady and he doesn't have the numbers to build around him, but Joe's numbers are just as good as Brady's in the years that Brady hasn't had Gronk or Moss, and Joe's playoff numbers are better than Brady's even with Gronk and Moss. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Joe can't put up huge numbers and win consistently if he actually gets a chance to play with a good receiving corps, like all the other qbs you mentioned. You have "better qb" and "better receiving corps" confused.

[hen826957]

Raven_Flock hmm let see a) Drew Brees is a stat quarterback not a winning one. He's only wins 7 games a year b) Aaron Rodgers can't win on his own as we saw it this year so he needs talent around him so he's like Joe. c) Brady can't win on his own without Gronk and Edelman and without a top 5 defense. d) Manning needs top recievers to be successful. So l'm saying is that this Qbs are just as similar as Joe. They need pieces to be successful.

[araveninwaconc]

On 2/13/2016 at 11:52 AM, sami said:

I think Eisenberg is wrong. Defenses win Super Bowls. Sure Flacco had a great SB run but lets not forget the Defense stopped Manning and got the ball back for us and also stymied Brady.
Flacco hasn't had a 4000 yd season yet nor threw for over 25 tds in a season. He hasn't got the job done in "crunch time" consistently like an elite QB should, but hes good enough to win if our defense turns rabid like they used to be.

Question Would you rather have a quarter back who throws for 4000 plus or one who can get you past the first round?

[araveninwaconc]

7 hours ago, JacktheRaven said:

Maybe leave the predictions to the experts. " he's had his SB run. That's it" How the hell do you know! Where does it say that Brees & Rodgers have won more games & playoff games than Joe?

If the game is close and offense have the ball last I have very good feelings. If the game is close and the defense is on the last stand?

[rmcjacket23]

5 hours ago, bozo said:

the smart thing to to is let joe go and use the money to bye other players.joe is no bargin.

So basically just be the Cleveland Browns...

[rmcjacket23]

5 hours ago, hen826957 said:

@FloridalovesRavens What I'm saying is that in these last couple of years Ozzie has done a poor job at managing contracts to players that is either underperforming or have injury issues like sign Pitta, Monroe, and Smith (time will tell), etc to big contracts and that's why we always almost over the cap every year and this year is the year they need a big time free agent that could boost our team but can't afford. I will still trust Ozzie and company to make the decisions its just these last couple of years it's just bad moves.

The problem is that the list of big time free agents who sign big contracts and actually live up to them is pretty small.

And if we spend big money on a FA and he sucks then fans will complain about that too, so there's basically no decision the FO can make in either scenario that keeps fans from second guessing after the fact, which is irrelevant.

The difference, as usual, is that there's never any accountability from fans when they are wrong. They can just say do this and do that AFTER they get to see what happens, but not a moment before.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

What have you been smoking John? The reason we cant win like that is because 80% of our defensive high round draft picks have not panned out since the Kindle, Cheeseburger draft. However, that is the formula to win championships. Hit in your high draft picks, and maybe we will see how far we can go. Miss on the draft picks, and Oz will keep bringing in bargain scrap heap players.

[thecommish]

IDK... i think they are kind of a template. In years past I would have agreed.... you cannot duplicate or try to duplicate Peyton in his prime. But that is not how the Broncos did it this year... they did it with a balance offensive system set up by the guy who left here (Kubiak) and his predecessor has a similar offensive philosophy. The Broncos did it with balance on offense and a strong and intimidating defense. We have always valued a strong and nasty D... we have the ingredients in place on offense and most of the ingredients in place on D... the biggest difference I see is that they have Wade Phillips and we are stuck with Dean Pees! If it were not for that one factor... I would say that they are our blue print... but with Pees at the helm... I do not believe that anyone knows what our blue print for success is on that side of the ball????

[rmcjacket23]

37 minutes ago, thecommish said:

IDK... i think they are kind of a template. In years past I would have agreed.... you cannot duplicate or try to duplicate Peyton in his prime. But that is not how the Broncos did it this year... they did it with a balance offensive system set up by the guy who left here (Kubiak) and his predecessor has a similar offensive philosophy. The Broncos did it with balance on offense and a strong and intimidating defense. We have always valued a strong and nasty D... we have the ingredients in place on offense and most of the ingredients in place on D... the biggest difference I see is that they have Wade Phillips and we are stuck with Dean Pees! If it were not for that one factor... I would say that they are our blue print... but with Pees at the helm... I do not believe that anyone knows what our blue print for success is on that side of the ball????

Wouldn't really call it a balanced offense. I'd call it a ball control offense with emphasis on no turnovers. They were basically the Chiefs offense.

The biggest difference in the two teams isn't the coaches...it's the players. Specifically, the secondary players.

[bigcatfrank1]

@FloridalovesRavens What I'm saying is that in these last couple of years Ozzie has done a poor job at managing contracts to players that is either underperforming or have injury issues like sign Pitta, Monroe, and Smith (time will tell), etc to big contracts and that's why we always almost over the cap every year and this year is the year they need a big time free agent that could boost our team but can't afford. I will still trust Ozzie and company to make the decisions its just these last couple of years it's just bad moves.

That is a bit ridiculous...Lets take Pitta there is no way to know that Pitta is going to have an injury that devastating, period. Smith has bounced back, period. Monroe could bounce back, the jury is still out. The contract that has hurt the most is Ray Rice, I believe that was a total screw up by the organization...but what is done is done. The moves that are probably more looming are mid range players that were expected to out play 2nd string moves. CB, Saftey, WR, LT, LB,

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

That is a bit ridiculous...Lets take Pitta there is no way to know that Pitta is going to have an injury that devastating, period. Smith has bounced back, period. Monroe could bounce back, the jury is still out. The contract that has hurt the most is Ray Rice, I believe that was a total screw up by the organization...but what is done is done. The moves that are probably more looming are mid range players that were expected to out play 2nd string moves. CB, Saftey, WR, LT, LB,

1. We did sign Pitta AFTER his first hip dislocation, so it wasn't completely naive to think he couldn't have recurring issues.

2. Not sure how anyone can say Jimmy has bounced back yet, considering 2015 was one of his worst seasons AND coming off his biggest payday.

3. Rices deal was fine until his domestic violence issues. That couldn't have been foreseen.

[Ugly Ball]

  14 hours ago, Ravens_Flock said:

*Sigh*....sorry, but if that's honestly how the Ravens view themselves now, "Joe Flacco's team"....they're hitching their cart to the wrong horse. He had his SB run. That's it. He has continued to be incredibly uneven since. And we NEED to rebuild what has been an incredibly bad defense (for the most part, outside of 2014's pass rush), since 2012. No coincidence what that year happens to coincide with either. The Ravens have always ever been about a strong run game, and a strong defense. We have lacked the the run game part 2 out of the last 4 seasons, and the secondary, at least, has been VERY bad since 2013. As in a hot mess.

If the Ravens really don't think they need to to build the team around the run and the D anymore, they're in for a continued rude awakening. Joe Flacco is not Drew Brees. He's not Aaron Rogers. And he's not Tom Brady (as sick as that makes me to pay that man a compliment). Joe is Joe, and he's never going to put up the kind of numbers to justify "building the team around him".

Partially agree and partially disagree.

1. The 2012 Ravens defense was nothing special. They were highly inconsistent and a lot of the "name" players on that team weren't major contributors. The offense was the best unit on that team.

2. I think we can and still will run the ball effectively, but it makes no sense to go back to a 2008 style running game. We need a balanced offense that plays to the strengths of everyone, and I think we are heading in the right direction there.

3. We need to improve on defense, no question. But we certainly don't need a Seattle/Denver level defense in order to win a SB. 

The goal in my eyes is to build a balanced team. Good on both sides of the ball, not necessarily great on both.

As true as all this is, anything less than shooting for the most dominant team we are able to produce, on either side of the ball, in my opinion is aiming too low.

Sort of like the bend but don't break philosophy !

If your sights are set on anything less than domination you end up chasing a playoff chances. Hoping for other teams to help you get into them. Sound familiar?

[Ugly Ball]

  11 hours ago, bozo said:

the smart thing to to is let joe go and use the money to bye other players.joe is no bargin.

So basically just be the Cleveland Browns...

Sure, we should be able to pick up Manzel when they cut him !

[hen826957]

@bigcatfrank1 hmm well Dennis Pitta did have his first injury before the big contract so that was a concerning to give him a huge contract. Jimmy Smith had a injury the year before his contract as well and to me Ozzie payed him a little too much 4 year 48 million that's 12 million a year. While by he was turn into one of the top corners in the league in 2014, he wasn't proven. He only played 4 games l believe now if he would've played the entire 2014 season and played like he did earlier in that season then it would be a great move but now it's meeh will see he didn't play his expectations in 2015 so let's see if he could redeem himself. You could be right about Monroe because we don't know if he wasn't going to underperformed but he only had half a year with us in 2013 then pay him a big contract. I wonder can we give players a decent contract first just to be safe then if he plays well then earn him more? But back to this LOL Ray Rice was a good deal just the domestic violence issue made this deal bad.

[bozo]

if the ravens fail to go into free agency and get the players needed to compete in the division, look for the basement to be a permanent place in the afc north.

[Ugly Ball]

if the ravens fail to go into free agency and get the players needed to compete in the division, look for the basement to be a permanent place in the afc north.

BOZO !
It is such fitting a name for a troll from Pittsburgh

[rmcjacket23]

8 hours ago, Ugly Ball said:

As true as all this is, anything less than shooting for the most dominant team we are able to produce, on either side of the ball, in my opinion is aiming too low.

Sort of like the bend but don't break philosophy !

If your sights are set on anything less than domination you end up chasing a playoff chances. Hoping for other teams to help you get into them. Sound familiar?

There's a difference between optimism and realism. You can shoot for the moon, but no team ever obtains both. And as pretty much every champ in history shows, you don't need dominance on both sides of the ball to hoist the Lombardi.

[The Greek]

the smart thing to to is let joe go and use the money to bye other players.joe is no bargin.

you are such a bozo. hehehe. sorry that was too easy

[RavensDieHard21]

Winning Formula is Flacco--especially with maulers in front of him, strong ground game, a few reliable receivers and a menacing defense to give Flacco the ball more to score and to get off the field when they should be.

2014 playoffs vs NE (31-35) When you lose and score 31 points there is nowhere else to look but besides offense. in 2015 we scored 30 or 33 vs. Oakland and lost, 30 against Cleveland and lost. There were opportunities for offense to win the game against Den, Arz, Cincy, San Fran, but that was just the luck of the draw, players sometimes make crucial drops, which is why we need to draft or pick up one more cement handed receiver to reel in game winning passes.... Case closed lol