[News] Eisenberg: Broncos Not A Template For Ravens Success

[BR News]

Baltimore wants to ramp up its defense, but Joe Flacco is now the defining characteristic of the Ravens.

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[bioLarzen]

No organization is a direct template for any other organization. If that was the case, every singly organization would follow the same model.

[sami]

I think Eisenberg is wrong. Defenses win Super Bowls. Sure Flacco had a great SB run but lets not forget the Defense stopped Manning and got the ball back for us and also stymied Brady.
Flacco hasn't had a 4000 yd season yet nor threw for over 25 tds in a season. He hasn't got the job done in "crunch time" consistently like an elite QB should, but hes good enough to win if our defense turns rabid like they used to be.

[rmcjacket23]

18 minutes ago, sami said:

I think Eisenberg is wrong. Defenses win Super Bowls. Sure Flacco had a great SB run but lets not forget the Defense stopped Manning and got the ball back for us and also stymied Brady.
Flacco hasn't had a 4000 yd season yet nor threw for over 25 tds in a season. He hasn't got the job done in "crunch time" consistently like an elite QB should, but hes good enough to win if our defense turns rabid like they used to be.

Yes, he needs a good defense. He just doesn't need a Broncos levelvet defense. We already know he doesn't because he's proven he can win without one, considering he hasn't had a Broncos level defense in his entire career.

Flacco at his worst is still significantly better than what we all saw from Manning this year.

[ravens4life86]

Eisenbeeg Premise is both right and wrong. Right, because this is Flaccos team now and he hasnt ever been given the offensive weaponry of a Big Ben,Rodgers,Brees etc to win mainly mainly on his arm an put up MVP type seasons.
Eisenberg is wrong, Defense wins championships. Just look at recent history with LOB and Denver. Secondly Ravens franchise philosophy is Defense first, and balance on offense which lends itself to more "Team" success then individual success.
Last its widely accepted the 2 most important holes to fill in the draft are transcendent Pass Rushers, and Gamechsnging WRs..so you can improve both sides of the ball and not have to be 1 dimensional team

[TheConquerorWorm]

Where do you think the Broncos got their template from? Kubiak saw how dominant Suggs & Dumervil were in 2014, so he went out and got a coach in Wade Phillips that runs the same defense as Pees. The only difference between the two is personnel. Von Miller is a younger version of Suggs.

We will see what happens to that Broncos Defense now. They have to give Miller a HUGE contract, tying up significant salary cap space. They will lose Malik Jackson & Trevathan - two import pieces. DeMarcus Ware will probably be a cap casulty as well.

[law215]

If the Ravens plan on unseating either Steelers or Bengals as AFC North Champs, they need playmakers on both sides of the ball. Ravens need a pass rusher, better weapons at Wr, a CB that can cover man ( Jimmy is inconsistent game to game, year to year). I think the upcoming combine may determine what position (OLB, Wr, CB) Ravens draft first or will they move back for additional picks.. Unless Spence blows the interview process, I expect him to be top 10. Speed will determine which CB, Wr rise or fall. At number 6, I would not be surprise if Ravens trade up if a QBs value drop, Browns may not value a QB at #2 while Ravens covet a Bosa or Ramsey.

[Tatt P]

Sorry Eisenberg but, I still think of Defense around here. And always will.

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Where do you think the Broncos got their template from? Kubiak saw how dominant Suggs & Dumervil were in 2014, so he went out and got a coach in Wade Phillips that runs the same defense as Pees. The only difference between the two is personnel. Von Miller is a younger version of Suggs.

We will see what happens to that Broncos Defense now. They have to give Miller a HUGE contract, tying up significant salary cap space. They will lose Malik Jackson & Trevathan - two import pieces. DeMarcus Ware will probably be a cap casulty as well.

Uh, I like Pees and all, but this is fundamentally not even close to true...

[robbie29]

Yes, the Ravens have done very well under Harbaugh- 6 of his 8 seasons have resulted in a postseason appearance. On the other hand, they've failed to make the postseason 2 of the last 3 years, landing over 30 combined players on IR the last two years. The last time the Ravens finished 5-11 in 2007, some big changes were made. I'm not saying fire Harbaugh (heck no), but like the end of the 2007 season, some major changes do need to be made. Over 30 players on IR over the last two years- ALARMING! That's not just bad luck- that's a disturbing trend. Also- I know Ozzie hates to sign playmaking FAs because he loves his comp picks. However, (especially recently) how many times have we been one or two big plays away from winning a game, only to suffer through an excruciating loss b/c an inexperienced or mediocre player didn't come through in the clutch? It might be well worth bucking the trend and considering signing a playmaker in free agency. Just my two cents.

Edited February 13, 2016 by robbie29

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

"Baltimore wants to ramp up its defense, but Joe Flacco is now the defining characteristic of the Ravens"

Which is exactly why I'll keep advocating that they draft Treadwell unless I find a reason to believe he's not as good as I think he is now.

[RavensBaltimore]

I agree with Eisenberg 100%. First of all, it would be foolish for anyone to use the Broncos defense this year as a template. The Broncos' D was one of the top 5 of the last 20 years. A unit like that is too rare to think that you can just build one and maintain it for consistency. Also, we have had a top 3 defense several times since 2006, and we kept falling short. When we finally broke through and won it all, we had decent weapons around Flacco(that's all he needed), and our offense led the way, despite having the worst defense of the Harbaugh/Flacco era. We do need to upgrade our D, but we've already found out that neglecting the offense to use most of our resources on defense only gets us so far, unless we had a historically great D, like in 2000, but again, defenses that great are too few and far between to count on.

[NCMan]

  3 hours ago, sami said:

I think Eisenberg is wrong. Defenses win Super Bowls. Sure Flacco had a great SB run but lets not forget the Defense stopped Manning and got the ball back for us and also stymied Brady.
Flacco hasn't had a 4000 yd season yet nor threw for over 25 tds in a season. He hasn't got the job done in "crunch time" consistently like an elite QB should, but hes good enough to win if our defense turns rabid like they used to be.

Yes, he needs a good defense. He just doesn't need a Broncos levelvet defense. We already know he doesn't because he's proven he can win without one, considering he hasn't had a Broncos level defense in his entire career.

Flacco at his worst is still significantly better than what we all saw from Manning this year.

Too bad facts and stats don't back you up on that.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

I think Eisenberg is wrong. Defenses win Super Bowls. Sure Flacco had a great SB run but lets not forget the Defense stopped Manning and got the ball back for us and also stymied Brady.
Flacco hasn't had a 4000 yd season yet nor threw for over 25 tds in a season. He hasn't got the job done in "crunch time" consistently like an elite QB should, but hes good enough to win if our defense turns rabid like they used to be.

"He hasn't got the job done in "crunch time" consistently"

What???Flacco definitely does get the job done in the clutch the majority of the time.I could name countless clutch crunch time plays/performances of his throughout his career,but I won't because it would turn this comment into a novel.Last year was just a blip in his career.No QB in NFL history has gotten the job done in crunch time 100 percent of the time.

"Flacco hasn't had a 4000 yd season yet nor threw for over 25 tds in a season."

What does that have to do with anything?Yards are just a product of a high number of attempts.You(I don't mean you in particular but ravens fans in general) can't cry about us moving away from a team that dedicates everything to defense and a run game and then hold it against Flacco when his stats reflect the way the team around him was built.Also,he threw for 27 TD's in 2014.

"hes good enough to win if our defense turns rabid like they used to be."

I don't see how you could think the only way we've won with Flacco in the past and/or can win with Flacco in the future is with a rabid defense.Especially not after the 2012/13 SB year.We've only had what I would call a rabid defense twice since he's been here.If we can manage to find Flacco just one Elite weapon and surround that player with guys who are respectable and dependable,that would do more for this team than you could imagine.

[RavensBaltimore]

I think Eisenberg is wrong. Defenses win Super Bowls. Sure Flacco had a great SB run but lets not forget the Defense stopped Manning and got the ball back for us and also stymied Brady.
Flacco hasn't had a 4000 yd season yet nor threw for over 25 tds in a season. He hasn't got the job done in "crunch time" consistently like an elite QB should, but hes good enough to win if our defense turns rabid like they used to be.

Flacco has gotten the job done in crunch time far better than any other elite qb in the league. His playoff numbers prove that, and his % of scoring TDs in the last 2 mins when needed is right up there with the best, and he's never had the weapons of the other elite qbs. He has thrown for more than 25 tds, and he was on pace for about 4,500 yds before he got hurt this year. Also, you can cherry pick good plays from our D in our last SB run, but they were not consistently good, and they gave up a lot of points and yards in the postseason. If our 2012 defense was "rabid", then about half the teams in the league have a rabid defense every year.

[WNC-Raven]

I just have a feeling we will go heavy defense in the draft this year and add a WR in FA. Our offense held its own last season but the defense just couldn't finish games. You can throw stats in argument if you like. My opinion comes from watching the games. You can't get true prospective from a piece of paper

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Eisenbeeg Premise is both right and wrong. Right, because this is Flaccos team now and he hasnt ever been given the offensive weaponry of a Big Ben,Rodgers,Brees etc to win mainly mainly on his arm an put up MVP type seasons.
Eisenberg is wrong, Defense wins championships. Just look at recent history with LOB and Denver. Secondly Ravens franchise philosophy is Defense first, and balance on offense which lends itself to more "Team" success then individual success.
Last its widely accepted the 2 most important holes to fill in the draft are transcendent Pass Rushers, and Gamechsnging WRs..so you can improve both sides of the ball and not have to be 1 dimensional team

I think a talented CB to go opposite Jimmy is more important than a pass rusher is going into next season.I know Suggs suffered a serious injury and is a year older,but he and Doom played at a crazy high level when they were both on the field together.It's hard to believe that they won't even be good enough playing together next year.Our pass rush looks like it's at the least good enough to win a SB.As is,the secondary doesn't look like a superbowl winning secondary,IMO.

[balfan23]

14 minutes ago, WNC-Raven said:

I just have a feeling we will go heavy defense in the draft this year and add a WR in FA. Our offense held its own last season but the defense just couldn't finish games. You can throw stats in argument if you like. My opinion comes from watching the games. You can't get true prospective from a piece of paper

... or generate any turnovers. Just look at the win loss ratios in this league when teams win/lose the turnover battle. I don't know if there is a higher correlation between a stat and wins than with turnovers. We need a ball hawk and we need additional QB pressure and we need to get some of the guys we currently have on defense to play with a little more swagger. 

 

I agree - I think defense will be the focus of the draft. 

[TheConquerorWorm]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

4 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Where do you think the Broncos got their template from? Kubiak saw how dominant Suggs & Dumervil were in 2014, so he went out and got a coach in Wade Phillips that runs the same defense as Pees. The only difference between the two is personnel. Von Miller is a younger version of Suggs.

We will see what happens to that Broncos Defense now. They have to give Miller a HUGE contract, tying up significant salary cap space. They will lose Malik Jackson & Trevathan - two import pieces. DeMarcus Ware will probably be a cap casulty as well.

Uh, I like Pees and all, but this is fundamentally not even close to true...

So, Wade Phillips doesn't run a 3-4 Under as his base defense? (He does, so does Pees) He doesn't rush both OLB (Ware & Miller/Suggs & Doom) and drop the MLBs in coverage? (He does, so does Pees). He doesn't use a Cover 1 Dog? (He does, so does Pees)

Edited February 13, 2016 by TheConquerorWorm

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

The Broncos should not be a template....We are the Ravens and defensively we need to get the swag back and offensively we need to play smash mouth ball PERIOD. Cram the ball down opposing teams throats.

[Ravenslifer]

What we need is the best players to fill our gaps. Is WR a need - yes. SSS is 36 coming off a major injury and will retire after next year, and after him we have no clue if Perriman will live up to expectations and if the other receivers can continue their progress. Is LT a possible need - yes, given Eugene Monroe 's health concerns. Is OLB/DE a need - yes, given Suggs and Doom's ages and Suggs coming off injury. Is DB, either CB or safety a need - yes - we likely struck out with Elam, Jimmy has been inconsistent off of his injury but hopefully he bounces back, Webb looks shot, every CB or safety we've brought in the last few years has basically been a flop. If Treadwell is the best player on the board, take him. If it's Stanley, take him. If it's Bosa, take him. If it's Ramsey, take him. Any one of those 4 will make the team better, and that's what's important this year.

[RavensBaltimore]

  6 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  6 hours ago, sami said:

I think Eisenberg is wrong. Defenses win Super Bowls. Sure Flacco had a great SB run but lets not forget the Defense stopped Manning and got the ball back for us and also stymied Brady.
Flacco hasn't had a 4000 yd season yet nor threw for over 25 tds in a season. He hasn't got the job done in "crunch time" consistently like an elite QB should, but hes good enough to win if our defense turns rabid like they used to be.

Yes, he needs a good defense. He just doesn't need a Broncos levelvet defense. We already know he doesn't because he's proven he can win without one, considering he hasn't had a Broncos level defense in his entire career.

Flacco at his worst is still significantly better than what we all saw from Manning this year.

Too bad facts and stats don't back you up on that.

Yes they do.

Fact: Denver's D was ranked #1 this year. Flacco has never had a D that ranked #1.

Fact: Even in his worst year, Flacco has never had a TD/INT ratio or qb rating as bad as Manning's this year.

[rmcjacket23]

4 hours ago, NCMan said:

Too bad facts and stats don't back you up on that.

Umm, actually, literally all of them do.

Might want to actually look at the stats first...

[jravens13]

The Broncos should not be a template....We are the Ravens and defensively we need to get the swag back and offensively we need to play smash mouth ball PERIOD. Cram the ball down opposing teams throats.

Agreed!

[jravens13]

We have to invest in our Defense. We will not be a consistent team unless we have a playoff level Defense. We will never become the Colt's with Manning, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edge James and I am okay with that. That team STILL had a losing record in the playoffs.

[jravens13]

  7 hours ago, ravens4life86 said:

Eisenbeeg Premise is both right and wrong. Right, because this is Flaccos team now and he hasnt ever been given the offensive weaponry of a Big Ben,Rodgers,Brees etc to win mainly mainly on his arm an put up MVP type seasons.
Eisenberg is wrong, Defense wins championships. Just look at recent history with LOB and Denver. Secondly Ravens franchise philosophy is Defense first, and balance on offense which lends itself to more "Team" success then individual success.
Last its widely accepted the 2 most important holes to fill in the draft are transcendent Pass Rushers, and Gamechsnging WRs..so you can improve both sides of the ball and not have to be 1 dimensional team

I think a talented CB to go opposite Jimmy is more important than a pass rusher is going into next season.I know Suggs suffered a serious injury and is a year older,but he and Doom played at a crazy high level when they were both on the field together.It's hard to believe that they won't even be good enough playing together next year.Our pass rush looks like it's at the least good enough to win a SB.As is,the secondary doesn't look like a superbowl winning secondary,IMO.

Hargraves is the guy for that. We could pick up a pass rusher with our early 2nd Rounder too. Kevin Dodd and Leonard Floyd would be nice!

[rmcjacket23]

6 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Where do you think the Broncos got their template from? Kubiak saw how dominant Suggs & Dumervil were in 2014, so he went out and got a coach in Wade Phillips that runs the same defense as Pees. The only difference between the two is personnel. Von Miller is a younger version of Suggs.

We will see what happens to that Broncos Defense now. They have to give Miller a HUGE contract, tying up significant salary cap space. They will lose Malik Jackson & Trevathan - two import pieces. DeMarcus Ware will probably be a cap casulty as well.

1. Wade inherited a great secondary, the most important element of that defense and scheme. We don't and haven't had that.

2. Cap space isn't as big of a problem for Denver as it seems. Peyton getting cut or retiring frees up $19M in cap space alone. They can fit Von, Osweiler, and probably one other player under the cap for 2016 for that price. There's also others they could cut, extend, or restructure. Clady comes to mind...

[Saxxin]

The Ravens have had a better defense than the Bronco's did last year. If anything the Bronco defense was a template of what the ravens had. They shut down a team that won their NFC championship game by a score of 41-0.

[hen826957]

Ozzie and the Ravens don't manage there salary cap well. We always can't get one good player at free agency every year because we always don't have space he cost to much while other teams find a way to get the player they want. I want them to go after Jeffery. Having Jeffery, Steve Smith, Perriman, and Aiken will be a decent group of recievers but we have to pay K.O. and such and we can't afford him. Now we have to find the cheap route in free agency now l'm saying we need to start signing all the good players in free agency just get at least one star player in free agency and Wr a Corner something but it's the same route every year. Bad management by Ozzie.

[FloridalovesRavens]

Ozzie and the Ravens don't manage there salary cap well. We always can't get one good player at free agency every year because we always don't have space he cost to much while other teams find a way to get the player they want. I want them to go after Jeffery. Having Jeffery, Steve Smith, Perriman, and Aiken will be a decent group of recievers but we have to pay K.O. and such and we can't afford him. Now we have to find the cheap route in free agency now l'm saying we need to start signing all the good players in free agency just get at least one star player in free agency and Wr a Corner something but it's the same route every year. Bad management by Ozzie.

That's why we have been to the playoffs so many times because Ozzie doesn't do it right. Sorry can not agree with you on that.