Possibility of Deforest Buckner & Noah Spence???

[JoeyFlex5]

5 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

He might seem like it, but we have no idea.  Teams have much greater resources than us.  What we see in press conferences, interviews, or whatever else is not necessarily indicative of who he really is.  Sure, he could be playing that card to the media and even teams, but you better believe teams are digging deep on him.  He could be this new, reformed character, but we have no idea.  There's a very good chance we would avoid a guy like him.

I agree with all of this and I'm not calling any guarantees here lol I'm just saying I could fully understand us being able to see past his past, assuming his interviews are indicative of his true character. Obviously people can always put on a front but like I said be appears to be sincerely a reformed and high character guy, whether it's an act or not is obviously yet to be seen, but I'd personally take him in a heartbeat at 6

[JoeyFlex5]

4 minutes ago, Edgar said:

I could  see a scenario where we get Spence at 6 and trade back into the  first round to get someone like Darian Thompson

Thompson very well could be there at our 2nd pick. Matter of fact I would be willing to bet on it, unless he puts on some freakish combine then I think he's there and he very well could top our list.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I agree with all of this and I'm not calling any guarantees here lol I'm just saying I could fully understand us being able to see past his past, assuming his interviews are indicative of his true character. Obviously people can always put on a front but like I said be appears to be sincerely a reformed and high character guy, whether it's an act or not is obviously yet to be seen, but I'd personally take him in a heartbeat at 6

Not trying to be rude here, but I do think you're kind of believing what you want to in a sense to justify taking him.  I know you're not saying there are any guarantees, but there's a very real chance that he could be completely off of our board.  This is the exact type of guy the Ravens have avoided in the past.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

Not trying to be rude here, but I do think you're kind of believing what you want to in a sense to justify taking him.  I know you're not saying there are any guarantees, but there's a very real chance that he could be completely off of our board.  This is the exact type of guy the Ravens have avoided in the past.

You very well could be right. But I wouldn't say I'm doing that, because if he was off our board I wouldn't be surprised one bit, I know we don't like taking character risks, but you can also look at the bleak future of our pass rush and the fact that Steve has wanted a guy like spence for years now, and say maybe it's time the ravens take a little risk. If Ozzie were to EVER change it up to get some life injected into this team it's right now. You can play both sides of the spectrum and I'm on neither side, I just know I like spence for this team, I'm not getting my hopes up but also not ruling it out.

[JoeyFlex5]

Also lets remember.. Shane Ray was busted for possession days before the draft and he was still our number one target until Denver took him. Marcus Peters was our guy as well And I think he is more likely to be a locker room cancer with his immaturity and temper. Its very possible that the ravens are willing to take more risks given our somewhat bleak future in some positions.

[gabefergy]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

But this happened over a year ago and if you watch his interviews he really seems like a good character guy with a good head on his shoulders who just made some mistakes that in the end weren't all that severe. I'm not downplaying the stupidity of failing 2 drug tests but you also shouldn't overplay it as if he's failing drug tests right before the combine or as if he is some detriment to society like a Greg hardy or Justin blackmon going out driving drunk and endangering lives and beating women and overall being a horrible person. Spence appears to be world's apart from that kind of person. People reform themselves all the time, not everyone with a shaky past is the scum of the earth. I'm sure the ravens know this as well as anyone, we saw what ray Lewis transformed to, we saw Ray rice who was super squeaky clean knock his wife unconscious, our FO knows that People can change whether for good or for bad, all you can do is take the encouraging signs and run with it, and I'd say spences progress is quite encouraging

Bottomline it's a super risky move and the Ravens have never been a team that takes risks on players that have his history. Whether it was over a year ago makes no difference in how dumb it was. Even if he owns everything and comes off like a choir boy, he will still have a black mark on his record. You have to consider the possibility that he messes up again. For a team in the Ravens position, that would be disastrous.

[JoeyFlex5]

21 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

Bottomline it's a super risky move and the Ravens have never been a team that takes risks on players that have his history. Whether it was over a year ago makes no difference in how dumb it was. Even if he owns everything and comes off like a choir boy, he will still have a black mark on his record. You have to consider the possibility that he messes up again. For a team in the Ravens position, that would be disastrous.

But getting a player who makes no impact on the field would be disatrous as well lol. All I'm saying is I wouldn't rule it out, especially considering how we wanted shane Ray and Marcus Peters so badly last year, and that was word straight from the horses mouth.

[ngatainmyhouse]

2 hours ago, gabefergy said:

You have to be joking right? Failing two drug tests and getting kicked out of the Big 10 doesn't sound like something the Ravens would avoid? Better players have fallen out of the top 2 rounds for lesser offenses.

We signed Donte Stallworth who was charged with manslaughter so I think two failed drug tests over a year ago probably isnt a deal breaker

[Ravensfan23]

2 hours ago, rmw10 said:

He might seem like it, but we have no idea.  Teams have much greater resources than us.  What we see in press conferences, interviews, or whatever else is not necessarily indicative of who he really is.  Sure, he could be playing that card to the media and even teams, but you better believe teams are digging deep on him.  He could be this new, reformed character, but we have no idea.  There's a very good chance we would avoid a guy like him.

I agree. Not saying the Ravens wouldn't take him, but when you have issues with addiction, it doesn't just go away. He said he was addicted to x. It's great that he seemingly shook that nasty addiction but if it were truly an addition, what happens when you dump a ton of money into this kids lap? What are his influences and who is he hanging around? Was he squeaky clean at EKU just because he knew his dream would be taken away with another mess up or is he truly reformed? These questions and so much more the Ravens will be asking and checking out.

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, ngatainmyhouse said:

We signed Donte Stallworth who was charged with manslaughter so I think two failed drug tests over a year ago probably isnt a deal breaker

Dontè Stallworth wasn't a 1st round pick worth millions and a guy you are hoping to build around for the next 5-7 years. It's call low risk, Spence would be anything but low risk

[JoeyFlex5]

51 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I agree. Not saying the Ravens wouldn't take him, but when you have issues with addiction, it doesn't just go away. He said he was addicted to x. It's great that he seemingly shook that nasty addiction but if it were truly an addition, what happens when you dump a ton of money into this kids lap? What are his influences and who is he hanging around? Was he squeaky clean at EKU just because he knew his dream would be taken away with another mess up or is he truly reformed? These questions and so much more the Ravens will be asking and checking out.

The way you speak about an addiction to ecstasy really sounds like a stretch lol. Its a party drug and he got caught up in it and got busted and learned his lesson.

 

The way some folks talk about these college kids with drug "addictions" makes me wonder what the standard for addiction is. Of you are addicted to something you can't live without it and can function day to day without it, trust me when I say that if Spence was taking ecstasy enough to call it an addiction, he wouldn't have been on a football field, it would be humanly impossible to get high on mdma and function athletically at a ncaa level, he would have been dead. 

 

He was partying on the weekends, took a dirty pee, twice, and when he was banned from the conference he owned up the best way he couldcould, by saying he had an addiction and was working on getting clean. In his circumstances the last thing anyone wanted to hear was the truth, which was "I'm not a drug addict, I just liked to party with the wrong substances on the weekend". 

 

The only thing that makes what he did worse than a college kid drinking a fifth in one night, is what the DEA classifies the substance as. He's not a junkie, he never was. I'm sorry lol i have seen so much real addiction in my life that I just can't agree that Spence is some kind of addict, it's a stretch to say the least.

[JoeyFlex5]

And for the record I'm not condoning drug use in any way. I just think the word "addiction" gets thrown around way too easily when talking about college kids doing what college kids do. They party, some get in too deep and pay the consequences which is what I would be willing to bet is what happened with Spence. But I digress, does the FO see it that way? Who knows.

[allblackraven]

5 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

And for the record I'm not condoning drug use in any way. I just think the word "addiction" gets thrown around way too easily when talking about college kids doing what college kids do. They party, some get in too deep and pay the consequences which is what I would be willing to bet is what happened with Spence. But I digress, does the FO see it that way? Who knows.

Yep, we're about to find out soon.

[January J]

8 hours ago, edthehead said:

why can a't you see ifor 

Hue ispWentzrstaktsiusive  and actually C level an  d has a decent team (missing some pieces) mainly QB

     but I see a RG3, bradford maybe who knows, then draft a QB in a later round

          AFCN is defensive style, hue knows it. 

Dallas, really, c'mon man

     no way they go QB at 4/5 where ever they pick, maybe if they trade back .Oki

     cowboys again win now mode, maybe, johnny football ( rumors say no) rg3 back to texas again who knows 

I am not saying it is impossible with the browns, but it is impossible with the cowboys at 5

I think you Will end up pretty surprised. Impossible? There are several Plausible reasons why they could go qb, and wentz 's stock is only going to rise. Jerrys Not going to pass up the oppurtunity At a future franchise qb when his current qb is in his late 30s with Severe back issues. Idont think They believe they will be picking this high again For a while. Not to mention the cowboys coaching staff coached wentz At the senior bowl and will be more familiarized with him.

 

As far as buckner i Think we will have a shot at either him or ramsey- whomever the jags dont Take.

Edited February 14, 2016 by January J

[gabefergy]

19 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

But getting a player who makes no impact on the field would be disatrous as well lol. All I'm saying is I wouldn't rule it out, especially considering how we wanted shane Ray and Marcus Peters so badly last year, and that was word straight from the horses mouth.

Maybe we wanted them, maybe not, but neither had the kind of violations that Spence had. Anyone could end up being a bust, players with off the field issues are more worrisome that's all. There are most likely a couple players at #6 that could be great players in a Ravens uniform.

[GrimCoconut]

On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 7:04 PM, gabefergy said:

Combined with Ravens likely hesitance to draft a player that bombed his interview...yeah, it's not going to happen.

Didn't Maxx Williams bomb his combine interviews? And Carl Davis? I feel like I recall reading both interviewed poorly but can't distinctly remember and don't feel like looking it up atm 

Edited February 15, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[GrimCoconut]

21 hours ago, gabefergy said:

Maybe we wanted them, maybe not, but neither had the kind of violations that Spence had. Anyone could end up being a bust, players with off the field issues are more worrisome that's all. There are most likely a couple players at #6 that could be great players in a Ravens uniform.

Spence has character concerns and I agree in that I'm not confident we'll take him but Marcus Peters was accused of punching a coach and was kicked off his team by their head coach, while Spence was banned from the B1G after repeatedly testing hot for ecstasy. It's sorta similar 

[JoeyFlex5]

4 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

Spence has character concerns and I agree in that I'm not confident we'll take him but Marcus Peters was accused of punching a coach and was kicked off his team by their head coach, while Spence was banned from the B1G after repeatedly testing hot for ecstasy. It's sorta similar 

I think the ravens are much more likely to take someone who peed dirty twice last season, than someone who is a legitimate bad character concern ans locker room cancer.

[allblackraven]

32 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I think the ravens are much more likely to take someone who peed dirty twice last season, than someone who is a legitimate bad character concern ans locker room cancer.

Not even last season for Spence. He did at least one monthly test (on his own request) since the transfer, all came clean.

[JoeyFlex5]

51 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Not even last season for Spence. He did at least one monthly test (on his own request) since the transfer, all came clean.

When were the bad tests?

[allblackraven]

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

When were the bad tests?

Back when he was at Ohio State, more than a year ago. He was thrown out of Big 10 November 2014

Edited February 16, 2016 by allblackraven

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, allblackraven said:

Back when he was at Ohio State, more than a year ago. He was thrown out of Big 10 November 2014

So he's had about 1 and a quarter seasons clean as a whistle and about and a quarter offseasons as well.

[allblackraven]

23 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

So he's had about 1 and a quarter seasons clean as a whistle and about and a quarter offseasons as well.

Yeah, about that long

[L.A.Ravens]

I see spence falling to the high 20s of the first round. We must and will trade up for him.

[Boddiebroadus]

18 minutes ago, L.A.Ravens said:

I see spence falling to the high 20s of the first round. We must and will trade up for him.

Nah I think the Bucks will pick him up if we pass on him. 

[RavensDieHard21]

I see it as almost impossible for these players to both be taken as Buckner will under no circumstance fall out of top 10 and Spence being the #2 edge rusher makes him incredibly valuable outside of his drug issue, which I believe will only see him slide to 20 at the latest, more  likely a top 15 pick. If I were Ozzie and Spence tears it up at the combine, then take him because he might turn out to be a freak talent that takes the torch from Suggs and edge rushers in this class are thin, while interior line is the deepest position group in the draft. Buckner is a safer pick though in my opinion, but we will have more luck having a top notch lineman falling to us in the second than a edge rusher.

[gabefergy]

On 2/15/2016 at 11:22 AM, GrimCoconut said:

Didn't Maxx Williams bomb his combine interviews? And Carl Davis? I feel like I recall reading both interviewed poorly but can't distinctly remember and don't feel like looking it up atm 

I'm talking in a hypothetical that Spence falls to the back end of the first round because he has a history of bad choices resulting in a major penalty and following that up with a failure to reconcile his errors when given the opportunity in team interviews. This scenario is vastly different in nature from alleged poor interviews by Williams and Davis who did not have failed drug tests, suspensions, and a conference ban.

[gabefergy]

On 2/15/2016 at 11:31 AM, GrimCoconut said:

Spence has character concerns and I agree in that I'm not confident we'll take him but Marcus Peters was accused of punching a coach and was kicked off his team by their head coach, while Spence was banned from the B1G after repeatedly testing hot for ecstasy. It's sorta similar 

Minor similarities at best. One scenario is a player from an old regime that didn't get along with his new coach. The other is massive errors in judgement and significantly larger penalties, in addition to entry into the substance abuse program.

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, gabefergy said:

Minor similarities at best. One scenario is a player from an old regime that didn't get along with his new coach. The other is massive errors in judgement and significantly larger penalties, in addition to entry into the substance abuse program.

Yeah, I recall that on Peters, and while I think it was eventually debunked as false, I don't think you can sleep on a player presumably hitting or publicly getting into it with a coach. That's a legitimate character concern. I recall guys like that with whom I played and they didn't end well. What other penalties did Spence get outside the substance abuse issue with ecstasy? I recall an alcohol related incident but that's it. 

[gabefergy]

35 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yeah, I recall that on Peters, and while I think it was eventually debunked as false, I don't think you can sleep on a player presumably hitting or publicly getting into it with a coach. That's a legitimate character concern. I recall guys like that with whom I played and they didn't end well. What other penalties did Spence get outside the substance abuse issue with ecstasy? I recall an alcohol related incident but that's it. 

I don't think there were anything outside of substance abuse issues for Spence, but I also don't think you can just lump together "character concerns" like they are all created equal. Honestly, the public is only privy to a small fraction of the info teams uncover on these prospects so drawing comparisons of one player to another doesn't work for me. Each one is a unique case. Of course it's possible the Ravens will draft Spence, but they have never drafted a player with his kind of indiscretions and associated ramifications previously. I guess there is a first time for everything. The point I made before I believe still rings true. There are a lot of players the Ravens will be considering throughout the draft process, and I would imagine there will be a number of players they will consider as viable targets at #6. Is it really worth taking a risk on a player with Spence's baggage? To be honest, we don't even know if they like him as a top 10 player regardless of the concerns.