The Secondary

[rmw10]

5 minutes ago, Clmraven said:

Yeah but when I say draft 3 DBs I'm thinking at least one of them in the fifth round or later, put em through camp if they impress, keep him if not, cut him. We just need fresh blood sure we already have a ton of safeties and CB's but Will Hill is the only one that's shown anything in the past 2 years and right now our only capable CB is Jimmy, Wright looked good the final half of the season but he's a FA and who says keeps playing well? To me this is very similar to our WR woes of the past few years, we fail to address the position because we think we're stacked when in reality we just have a bunch of below average guys.

I just don't think we're going to devote that many resources into the secondary.  We certainly need help there, but we have issues at others positions as well.

[Wildabeast88]

6 hours ago, Clmraven said:

If we dont address our secondary I think we're gonna repeat the last two seasons eventually playing with practiced squaders, we need to clear some cap space and really go after some guys, I say grab at least 2 DBs in FA there's some decent safeties that might not be too expensive with Weddle, Tashaun Gipson or maybe Tyvon Branch. We also need to draft at least 3 DBs (2 CBs 1S) if were gonna be stuck playing with backup players I'd at least like them to be ours instead of having to pluck them from someone else's PS.

Pass rush is a bigger need we already have to many safeties Webb Lewis Hill Brooks Elam and CB if healthy we will be good Jimmy Davis Wright yes we still need another solid CB. I believe Arrington is gone the production was not there. Also Webb could still play some CB especially if Brooks could play some FS

[Jacquouille]

Have I talked to you about Leslie Frazier?

[PurpleCity5]

7 hours ago, Wildabeast88 said:

Pass rush is a bigger need we already have to many safeties Webb Lewis Hill Brooks Elam and CB if healthy we will be good Jimmy Davis Wright yes we still need another solid CB. I believe Arrington is gone the production was not there. Also Webb could still play some CB especially if Brooks could play some FS

I disagree with the pass rush being a bigger need. We need another pass rusher but secondary is in the ER. I'm still a Jimmy Smith fan and I will acknowledge Shareece Wright growth here, but outside of those two you really got nothing. We don't even know how Webb looks like as a full-time safety, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a guy like Darian Thompson early. 

[allblackraven]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I disagree with the pass rush being a bigger need. We need another pass rusher but secondary is in the ER. I'm still a Jimmy Smith fan and I will acknowledge Shareece Wright growth here, but outside of those two you really got nothing. We don't even know how Webb looks like as a full-time safety, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a guy like Darian Thompson early. 

Smith+Wright+Web+Hill+Brooks isn't exactly nothing, some depth behind them, too. On the other hand, Suggs is coming (?) off a second achilles, Dumervil is a year older and Z. Smith only showed little bit of what we need so far. Jernigan is still undisciplined and inconsistent. We need pass rushers bad.

[52520Andrew]

People can sugar coat it all they want but the secondary has problems. I like Jimmy Smith and Will Hill but FS is a question mark with Webb transitioning there and Lewis being inconsistent. Brooks still hasn't gotten onto the field much at this point which is not a good sign.

CB is even worse since while we have Jimmy, our next best guys are Will Davis and Arrington. Wright is a FA and struggled quite a bit in San Diego before coming here and to his credit doing very well for a few games. Marlon Brown looked good for a few games as well though. Odds are that we will need a starting caliber CB even if we get Wright re-signed and we may have to get them via FA as it is rare for a rookie CB to come in and be effective in the NFL today.

[balfan23]

On 2/11/2016 at 4:42 PM, FGSB said:

If they do go with a DB I'd prefer Hargreaves, he definitely can help our lack of turnovers. Hes a smart guy with good instinct, always seems to be around the ball, great range, and great hands. With Jimmy returning to form and Hargreaves on the other side, it almost wouldn't matter who we put out there with Will Hill. I just don't see Ramsey helping with our lack of turnovers like Hargreaves could

When looking at these boards and looking at mocks, Hargraves appears to be getting downplayed. Not sure why. Ramsey is getting way more buzz. I never pretend to be a talent evaluator, but that's the current trend. 

[rmw10]

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

People can sugar coat it all they want but the secondary has problems. I like Jimmy Smith and Will Hill but FS is a question mark with Webb transitioning there and Lewis being inconsistent. Brooks still hasn't gotten onto the field much at this point which is not a good sign.

CB is even worse since while we have Jimmy, our next best guys are Will Davis and Arrington. Wright is a FA and struggled quite a bit in San Diego before coming here and to his credit doing very well for a few games. Marlon Brown looked good for a few games as well though. Odds are that we will need a starting caliber CB even if we get Wright re-signed and we may have to get them via FA as it is rare for a rookie CB to come in and be effective in the NFL today.

Yep.  I think you have to re-sign Wright with how he performed, but you also can't just settle for him and expect the same results going forward.  I do think we need a guy though, as we need someone for the future over the stopgaps that we've been trying to use.  It may not pay immediate dividends but a young CB to develop is one of my top priorities.

[Ravensfan23]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

Yep.  I think you have to re-sign Wright with how he performed, but you also can't just settle for him and expect the same results going forward.  I do think we need a guy though, as we need someone for the future over the stopgaps that we've been trying to use.  It may not pay immediate dividends but a young CB to develop is one of my top priorities.

Is Will Davis not young enough to be considered an developmental piece? Or are you speaking of a rookie like the hopes of Tray Walker last year. 

I thought Davis was they type of CB the Ravens really like and I would have loved to see him stay healthy to see how he'd finish the season. 

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Is Will Davis not young enough to be considered an developmental piece? Or are you speaking of a rookie like the hopes of Tray Walker last year. 

I thought Davis was they type of CB the Ravens really like and I would have loved to see him stay healthy to see how he'd finish the season. 

I'm looking more at an early round guy.  Another Jimmy from a few years back, essentially.

[Ravensfan23]

18 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I'm looking more at an early round guy.  Another Jimmy from a few years back, essentially.

OK. That would definitely be a huge plus. Obviously Ramsey is my guy but there are some quality early round CBs that could definitely fit that role of developing for a couple years.

[Jacquouille]

Ramsey will not make it past Dallas, rumors have him as the highest player on their board. And even if he does, Jax will jump on the opportunity. So we can kiss him goodbye.

Having Hargreaves would still be awesome, him and a back-to-100% Jimmy would be a dominant duo in the league.

[asteroid]

I'd put it this way: Bosa, Mack and then Ramsey in this order in the draft. If Ramsey is a shutdown corner he is worth it. If that be the case I'd leave him at corner and not mix the pot too much moving him around to safety.

[Wildabeast88]

On February 13, 2016 at 11:28 PM, PurpleCity5 said:

I disagree with the pass rush being a bigger need. We need another pass rusher but secondary is in the ER. I'm still a Jimmy Smith fan and I will acknowledge Shareece Wright growth here, but outside of those two you really got nothing. We don't even know how Webb looks like as a full-time safety, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a guy like Darian Thompson early. 

We have some pieces in the secondary Jimmy looked like Jimmy late in the year Wright is a FA but by all accounts sounds like he wants to stay he and Jimmy being good friends since HS. Will Davis is returning while somewhat unknown he did shutdown Antonio Brown. Hill at SS is good we just need to figure FS whether Webb or draft pick Ramsey/Thompson which if we do that can shift Webb back to CB. Plus we have Brooks and Elam who if they can improve will be good pieces to have. i see Lewis and Arringon getting cut. Pass rush Suggs coming off the 2nd Achilles Dumervil needs Suggs to be effective only 6 sacks without him. Z Smith who did alright as a rookie but nothing else behind them I see that as a bigger need. We still need some help in the secondary but more in the pass rush

Edited February 14, 2016 by Wildabeast88
Spelling

[PurpleCity5]

On 2/13/2016 at 1:21 AM, allblackraven said:

Smith+Wright+Web+Hill+Brooks isn't exactly nothing, some depth behind them, too. On the other hand, Suggs is coming (?) off a second achilles, Dumervil is a year older and Z. Smith only showed little bit of what we need so far. Jernigan is still undisciplined and inconsistent. We need pass rushers bad.

I think both are really big needs, but I look at the secondary and I say, "Who is here that I can see on this team a few years into the future?" I really can only say that about Jimmy. I like Brooks, but he hasn't shown much and I can't trust Wright as a #2 CB. I think we've gone through this process plenty of times with Rashan Melvin, Asa Jackson, Chykie Brown...the list goes on, guys who we believe are step-up guys only to be disappointed. Wright just seems untrustworthy to me, he's played well and definitely should be re-signed. Now, who is your starting CB alongside Jimmy?

Brooks hasn't shown anything. I keep rooting for him, it sucks because I was a fan of his before the draft and was really ecstatic that we got him, but he's just not there yet. Webb play at FS has just been a sample size, it would only take us drafting a guy like Darian Stewart or Von Bell to cut ties with him. His spot surely isn't safe here, especially with that cap hit at $9.5M which has to be brought down with incentives. 

I don't see much in that group honestly, Jimmy and Hill stand out, but not even Hill high level of play could help this secondary. It will help to have Jimmy back to his old self, but that will open the door for the other guys to get attacked. 

Edited February 15, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[L.A.Ravens]

Our secondary is good. The injures really hurt there chance of being great. In the last 8 games the Ravens finished with the best passing d and finished 2nd total D in the last 8 games. Still want a DB in the draft somewhere in first 2 rounds. Pass rush has to be 1st. Unless Ramsey is there at 6 we have to go with Buckner or Spence or if some how Bosa drops to 6 then possibly him too.

[Sherly_Tebow]

I just really want Bosa or Ramsey to fall to us. Both would really help. I think Ramsey would be a better help to the secondary than Bosa to the D-line, but I will gladly take either one! 

[RavensFan34950]

58 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I think both are really big needs, but I look at the secondary and I say, "Who is here that I can see on this team a few years into the future?" I really can only say that about Jimmy. I like Brooks, but he hasn't shown much and I can't trust Wright as a #2 CB. I think we've gone through this process plenty of times with Rashan Melvin, Asa Jackson, Chykie Brown...the list goes on, guys who we believe are step-up guys only to be disappointed. Wright just seems untrustworthy to me, he's played well and definitely should be re-signed. Now, who is your starting CB alongside Jimmy?

Brooks hasn't shown anything. I keep rooting for him, it sucks because I was a fan of his before the draft and was really ecstatic that we got him, but he's just not there yet. Webb play at FS has just been a sample size, it would only take us drafting a guy like Darian Stewart or Von Bell to cut ties with him. His spot surely isn't safe here, especially with that cap hit at $9.5M which has to be brought down with incentives. 

I don't see much in that group honestly, Jimmy and Hill stand out, but not even Hill high level of play could help this secondary. It will help to have Jimmy back to his old self, but that will open the door for the other guys to get attacked. 

I think Shareece Wright will be more of a Josh Wilson- Corey Graham player for us instead of a Rashaan Melvin- Asa Jackson player. He PFF rated him pretty high in their CB rankings. I trust him just like I trust Webb at the FS position. Pass rush is more of a need than secondary

[Passepartout]

Really the defense has been going downhill since.Need to take a loot at the upcoming draft.

[Jacquouille]

I'm maybe the only one, but I do think drafting Thompson would solve our problems in the secondary. He has an insane football IQ, is a leader that helps his teammates position themselves, and above anything else a true ballhawk. He's NFL ready and would make a big impact for us. While I like the CBs in this draft, I also think Jimmy, Shareece and Davis are very good corners. Jimmy and Shareece have proven themselves in the second half of the season, the only time our secondary got exposed was against Seattle, and 90% was on Webb imo.

[RaineV1]

There are some guys in Free Agency that the Ravens could grab without breaking the bank. Guys like Nolan Carroll, Janoris Jenkins, and Jerraud Powers. Could potentially pull off getting Rashad Johnson from the Cardinals. And of course bringing back Wright shouldn't be too expensive. We can patch up the secondary that way and use the draft to bring in young pass rushers.

[Purple_City39]

The real issue with the secondary is not talent but health.  Assuming they all stay mostly healthy, Jimmy Smith, Shareece Wright, and Will Davis make a very good CB stable.  Add in Will Hill and Lardarius Webb at safety and this would be a secondary that would have hard to throw on.  Problem is, 3 of the 5 named have a pretty bad injury history (Smith, Davis, Webb).  Secondary players are mostly needed for the inevitable injury to at least one of these players because even the backups (Elam and Brooks) have been injured lately

That said, pass rush is easily the biggest need.  Look at 2014.  Suggs, Doom, and McPhee terrorizing QBs masked the fact we had practice squad players, converted safeties, and players off the street starting various games at CB.......well, up until Brady and Belichiek came along at least.  Melvin and Webb looked good against that top ranked Steelers pass offense in Pittsburgh because Ben was harassed all game long.   Get the pass rush back to 2014 levels and the defensive backs we currently have will look all world 

[Wildabeast88]

5 hours ago, Purple_City39 said:

The real issue with the secondary is not talent but health.  Assuming they all stay mostly healthy, Jimmy Smith, Shareece Wright, and Will Davis make a very good CB stable.  Add in Will Hill and Lardarius Webb at safety and this would be a secondary that would have hard to throw on.  Problem is, 3 of the 5 named have a pretty bad injury history (Smith, Davis, Webb).  Secondary players are mostly needed for the inevitable injury to at least one of these players because even the backups (Elam and Brooks) have been injured lately

That said, pass rush is easily the biggest need.  Look at 2014.  Suggs, Doom, and McPhee terrorizing QBs masked the fact we had practice squad players, converted safeties, and players off the street starting various games at CB.......well, up until Brady and Belichiek came along at least.  Melvin and Webb looked good against that top ranked Steelers pass offense in Pittsburgh because Ben was harassed all game long.   Get the pass rush back to 2014 levels and the defensive backs we currently have will look all world 

Yes this is why I totally agree with pass rush as the biggest need

[jazz1988]

On 2/14/2016 at 5:40 AM, Jacquouille said:

Ramsey will not make it past Dallas, rumors have him as the highest player on their board. And even if he does, Jax will jump on the opportunity. So we can kiss him goodbye.

Having Hargreaves would still be awesome, him and a back-to-100% Jimmy would be a dominant duo in the league.

 

Too early to really say  what The Cowboys will do or what player will or won't fall pass by certain teams in the draft especially since the NFL combine hasn't happened yet.

[PurpleCity5]

23 hours ago, Wildabeast88 said:

We have some pieces in the secondary Jimmy looked like Jimmy late in the year Wright is a FA but by all accounts sounds like he wants to stay he and Jimmy being good friends since HS. Will Davis is returning while somewhat unknown he did shutdown Antonio Brown. Hill at SS is good we just need to figure FS whether Webb or draft pick Ramsey/Thompson which if we do that can shift Webb back to CB. Plus we have Brooks and Elam who if they can improve will be good pieces to have. i see Lewis and Arringon getting cut. Pass rush Suggs coming off the 2nd Achilles Dumervil needs Suggs to be effective only 6 sacks without him. Z Smith who did alright as a rookie but nothing else behind them I see that as a bigger need. We still need some help in the secondary but more in the pass rush

People keep bringing up Suggs coming off his second Achilles tear, but isn't Will Davis coming off another torn ACL? I don't like the way our pass rush looks but I have more confidence in a 33 year old Terrell Suggs coming off another Achilles tear than Will Davis, a guy that while I've been a supporter of day-1 but hasn't proven he can stay healthy nor proven that he's a starting caliber CB(Not that he's had the chance to). Again, I'll acknowledge Shareece Wright improvements but there is too much lack of trust there honestly. I just can't trust him, who says he won't revert back to his days in San Diego and San Fran? I def. want him back, but as a 3 or 4, we still need a starting CB here. 

[Wildabeast88]

7 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

People keep bringing up Suggs coming off his second Achilles tear, but isn't Will Davis coming off another torn ACL? I don't like the way our pass rush looks but I have more confidence in a 33 year old Terrell Suggs coming off another Achilles tear than Will Davis, a guy that while I've been a supporter of day-1 but hasn't proven he can stay healthy nor proven that he's a starting caliber CB(Not that he's had the chance to). Again, I'll acknowledge Shareece Wright improvements but there is too much lack of trust there honestly. I just can't trust him, who says he won't revert back to his days in San Diego and San Fran? I def. want him back, but as a 3 or 4, we still need a starting CB here. 

Generally Achilles injuries are more explosion sapping injuries plus at 33 that can be an issue. Plus do you remember Suggs after the 1st Achilles injury wasn't the same the 1st year back granted it was a shorter turn around this time around but still all he was the 1st year was a straight bull rusher and didn't have any explosion. As an example Thomas Davis tore his ACL 3 years in a row and is still a good player

[ALI624]

The secondary and pass rush are such a symbiotic relationship that you improve one the other will follow suit in most cases. If your secondary can cover longer then your pass rush has more time to get to the QB and if your pass rush can get to the QB faster then your secondary doesn't have to cover as long. The problem is in the draft there are only a couple of DBs and pass rushers worth taking at 6 and one of each will more than likely be gone(Ramsey and Bosa) and there are questions surrounding the other two(VH3 and Spence.)

[Wildabeast88]

I get what you are saying about Davis being out with 2 ACLs in 2 years I just feel more confident in Davis having a better season than Suggs just due to the age differential and the nature of the injury

[PurpleCity5]

4 hours ago, Wildabeast88 said:

Generally Achilles injuries are more explosion sapping injuries plus at 33 that can be an issue. Plus do you remember Suggs after the 1st Achilles injury wasn't the same the 1st year back granted it was a shorter turn around this time around but still all he was the 1st year was a straight bull rusher and didn't have any explosion. As an example Thomas Davis tore his ACL 3 years in a row and is still a good player

He 2011 good but he was very effective and one of our best players overall that year. He had 8 sacks and was still stout against the run. The same cannot be said about Will Davis. I still have more confidence in Suggs than Will Davis for that reason, and while Davis has shined at times, he hasn't proven to be a starting caliber CB nor has he proven he can handle a full 16 game season. 

Also, I don't see how Thomas Davis fits into this equation. Isn't he the only guy in NFL History to return from three torn ACLs? He's a guy who is the only one in that category, just because he's come from three torn ACLs does not mean that he will Davis has a shot to come back from two. Webb tore his ACL twice and we've seen how he looks coming back from that. 

[DomMcRaven]

I'll say this much. As much as I would love for this defense, not just the secondary, to get more takeaways, I would love it even more if they can get more stops. See I was looking at some defensive stats from 2011 and 2012 and the Steelers were first in both respective seasons in total defense and total pass defense. However, they were tied for 17th in sacks in 2011 and tied for 15th in 2012. If we can somewhat replicate that with a better pass rush, I'd be stoked.