[News] Late For Work 2/11: Mel Kiper: Ravens Will Need To Trade Up For Top Defensive Talent

[The Mom Gene]

Oh.... and Oher??? Come on Man... He needed different shoes. I mean, did he even have cleats on the bottom of those shoes?

[billiejean]

2 hours ago, Drew P said:

I don't understand the logic predicting Stanley at # 6.

They have Monroe at LT with a hefty contract and Urshel at LG.

The pick isn't an immediate impact and is one of those "safe" moves that seldom produces Lombardi trophies.

i think there is a misconception about Urshel at guard.  He gets in a lot of articles on this forum so everyone thinks he's an all star (same thing is happening with spence). In reality Urshel is an average to below average guard who is brilliant, but lacks some of the physical tools to be a star in this league. In fact Jenssen is a much better guard than Urschel. He just doesn't get any publicity.

Edited February 11, 2016 by billiejean

[billiejean]

2 hours ago, Drew P said:

I don't understand the logic predicting Stanley at # 6.

They have Monroe at LT with a hefty contract and Urshel at LG.

The pick isn't an immediate impact and is one of those "safe" moves that seldom produces Lombardi trophies.

where is your data that states safe moves in the draft do not lead to superbowls. Or did you just pull that out of nowhere.

Edited February 11, 2016 by billiejean

[billiejean]

2 hours ago, dirtybird66 said:

two thing's,bad draft year for talent,if ramsey's gone before #6 we really should trade back,also PERRIMAN is a BUST,cut ties now,he'll be OFT-INJURED and VERY FEW,VERY FEW have come back the same after his injury,so at best he will be a second teer reciever,sorry ravens fan's.

I'm sure you have done a lot of research on his injury. LOL Your lack of knowledge about the inner workings of a football team has failed you my friend. Why would we cut him when he isn't taking up a significant cap space. Or maybe you are a doctor, being that you know so much about his injury. LOL

Edited February 11, 2016 by billiejean

[Drew P]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Makes perfect sense to me to be honest if we know that KO isn't getting resigned...

1. Monroe is often injured and rather inconsistent when actually playing, though I don't think he's a bad LT when healthy and playing. 

2. Monroe has a decent-sized contract, and one that he hasn't produced anywhere near so far.

3. If we draft a LT early, he can either sit behind for a year and develop, or he can play Guard in year 1 and switch over to LT in year 2. This not only allows us to potentially field a dominate Oline this season, but it also adds depth to the LT position that we are lacking, since we pretty much know James Hurst is a disaster there.

4. Cutting Monroe in 2017 as opposed to 2016 frees up a little over $4.5M in cap space with significantly less dead money ($4.4M), so it makes more sense to cut him next season as opposed to this season.

Given that we have a QB coming back off a significant injury, and we already know we have injury/consistency concerns and a lack of depth at the most important offensive line position, it makes all the sense in the world to upgrade that spot. Also allows us to potentially upgrade the starter position at LT long term at a discounted price.

Another 1st round pick with potential I have heard that too often in 2 of the past 3 drafts.

I look at the teams that are in the hunt every year and I couldn't name one of their left LT's off the top of my head to save my life. If Stanley was in the same class as a JO then I get it but he isn't. The offense has been capable of putting up points going back to the last playoff appearance with a patch work line.

Personally I think the Ravens will look to the draft early to get back to a top ranked defense. They can't generate a pass rush unless they send the house and we know that leads to the secondary looking like moths to a light bulb.

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, Drew P said:

Another 1st round pick with potential I have heard that too often in 2 of the past 3 drafts.

I look at the teams that are in the hunt every year and I couldn't name one of their left LT's off the top of my head to save my life. If Stanley was in the same class as a JO then I get it but he isn't. The offense has been capable of putting up points going back to the last playoff appearance with a patch work line.

Personally I think the Ravens will look to the draft early to get back to a top ranked defense. They can't generate a pass rush unless they send the house and we know that leads to the secondary looking like moths to a light bulb.

I mean, that's great, but 100% of the players we will select, regardless of position, are based on POTENTIAL. Corner, pass rusher, WR, tackle, etc., doesn't matter. They are all being drafted based on potential. Ray Lewis, Ed Reed... all drafted based purely on potential.

It doesn't matter whether you can name the LT or not... that's completely irrelevant. For the most part, if you can't name an offensive lineman, chances are that means they are good, not bad, because offensive lineman aren't "sexy" players who everybody knows and wants to be. I'd say probably 95% of even respectable football fans in this country have absolutely zero idea who Marshal Yanda is... does that make him a bad player?

You've got a QB you pay an average of $20M a year to, and we've all seen what he is capable of when he has time to throw. Last year was a pretty pedestrian season from a pass protection standpoint, and it ended with our franchise QB in the operating room due to lack of quality protection.

We might not be able to "name" their lineman, but I can tell you Tom Brady and Andrew Luck can, and they'd certainly both like to have somebody better. If they did, maybe their teams would have been better.

If a quality defensive player is there to be picked at #6 (namely Bosa or Ramsey for me), then I'm all for taking them... that's what I'd prefer. But pretending like LT isn't a problem is ignoring one of the glaring weaknesses on this team.

[ellicottraven]

Mel Kiper Jr. needs to simmer down a little. Let me state this as something that's absolutely going to happen when we draft at #6. One of Bosa, Ramsey or Bucker will be available for us to pick and we shall pick one of those 3 players. End.

[Drew P]

19 minutes ago, billiejean said:

22 minutes ago, billiejean said:

i think there is a misconception about Urshel at guard.  He gets in a lot of articles on this forum so everyone thinks he's an all star (same thing is happening with spence). In reality Urshel is an average to below average guard who is brilliant, but lacks some of the physical tools to be a star in this league. In fact Jenssen is a much better guard than Urschel. He just doesn't get any publicity.

Urshel was a late round depth pick. He was plugged in due to injury and played well. I haven't read any threads that he is an all star but he certainly can start at the guard position at the NFL level.

Spence has produced in college and we are approaching the draft. He is getting a lot of hype in a thin pass rushing draft. Nothing out of the ordinary. The talent is there but he has a checkered past.

Jensen was a PS guy got a call up and played well himself. I'm sure you can pick up his jersey and generate some pub.

 

[ellicottraven]

  3 hours ago, Drew P said:

I don't understand the logic predicting Stanley at # 6.

They have Monroe at LT with a hefty contract and Urshel at LG.

The pick isn't an immediate impact and is one of those "safe" moves that seldom produces Lombardi trophies.

i think there is a misconception about Urshel at guard.  He gets in a lot of articles on this forum so everyone thinks he's an all star (same thing is happening with spence). In reality Urshel is an average to below average guard who is brilliant, but lacks some of the physical tools to be a star in this league. In fact Jenssen is a much better guard than Urschel. He just doesn't get any publicity.

I'll concede that Urshcel is overrated and that is a perception fed by his skills in math. He is a player that was selected in the 5th round for a reason, a sound reason. He can be a serviceable back up in this league, but a stout every day starter for a zone blocking scheme, not sure. I also agree that Jensen is underrated and is better right now at LG than Urschel.

[billiejean]

Mel Kiper Jr. needs to simmer down a little. Let me state this as something that's absolutely going to happen when we draft at #6. One of Bosa, Ramsey or Bucker will be available for us to pick and we shall pick one of those 3 players. End.

wow i wish i had a crystal ball. Buckner would not fill a position of need. He plays a position where we have L Guy, B Urban and maybe Canty. Its not a major pass rushing situation. He has the size to be a premier DE in a 3-4 and in the 4-3 but he has not had a lot of production in college. I would pass on that guy.

[bioLarzen]

Man, that Oher-slide sure looks like a Madden bug...

[bioLarzen]

3 hours ago, YankeeRaven said:

Shouldn't Ravens pick at no. 5 since the Jags beat them and they both ended with the same record?

Indeed, that would be the case if it was a 2-way tie. But it's a 3-way tie with these two teams and the 49ers, and those are always trickier to resolve.

[billiejean]

Man, that Oher-slide sure looks like a Madden bug...

haha I wouldn't have pegged you as a Madden guy Bio. But I think thats because I associate you with your profile picture and intuitively have believed that you look similar to that old grumpy man.

[bioLarzen]

2 hours ago, dirtybird66 said:

two thing's,bad draft year for talent,if ramsey's gone before #6 we really should trade back,also PERRIMAN is a BUST,cut ties now,he'll be OFT-INJURED and VERY FEW,VERY FEW have come back the same after his injury,so at best he will be a second teer reciever,sorry ravens fan's.

You're from the future?

[bioLarzen]

14 minutes ago, billiejean said:

haha I wouldn't have pegged you as a Madden guy Bio. But I think thats because I associate you with your profile picture and intuitively have believed that you look similar to that old grumpy man.

And you'de be dead right  Never played Madden - just seen some gameplay videos.

 

Luckily, I'm nowhere very near Walter's age (yet...) - just picked him because I likthe guy, and I kinda became the "grumpy one" on this site as I don't hold back my opinion just because it isn't kind

Edited February 11, 2016 by bioLarzen

[ravenwildman]

LOL, Doing a power ranking now is silly, most teams will be very different by June, much less the beginning of the season! They should call it power guessing, that's more accurate :) GO RAVENS!

[bioLarzen]

Just now, ravenwildman said:

LOL, Doing a power ranking now is silly, most teams will be very different by June, much less the beginning of the season! They should call it power guessing, that's more accurate GO RAVENS!

This is the NFL... where you find draft predictions ONE WHOLE YEAR ahead of the draft, and "professional" opinions of which franchise has the edge one season away...

 

Doing power rankings now is like trying to predict the exact weather on the opening day of the next season NOW. Totally futile.

[sticks999]

Shaq Lawson may be available at 6. It's hard to say who will actually go and in what order. But he is the pass rusher we need.

[mettro79]

I like our FA outlook this year. I agree that keeping KO might be difficult, but it's doable. As for our draft prospects at #6, whether we trade down or pick at that spot I like our odds to end up on top.

[balfan23]

I have a hard time believing that Bosa and Ramsey are the only defensive players that will have an impact in the NFL. They may be the most obvious choices at the moment, but someone else will emerge. We just have to determine who it is and get him.

[Bat-mite]

When Kiper nails the entire draft, it's like that million monkeys banging on a keyboard for a million years and coming out with Shakespeare. :)

[chuchu707]

We are truly going to regret it if we dont draft noah spence

[Drew P]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean, that's great, but 100% of the players we will select, regardless of position, are based on POTENTIAL. Corner, pass rusher, WR, tackle, etc., doesn't matter. They are all being drafted based on potential. Ray Lewis, Ed Reed... all drafted based purely on potential.

It doesn't matter whether you can name the LT or not... that's completely irrelevant. For the most part, if you can't name an offensive lineman, chances are that means they are good, not bad, because offensive lineman aren't "sexy" players who everybody knows and wants to be. I'd say probably 95% of even respectable football fans in this country have absolutely zero idea who Marshal Yanda is... does that make him a bad player?

You've got a QB you pay an average of $20M a year to, and we've all seen what he is capable of when he has time to throw. Last year was a pretty pedestrian season from a pass protection standpoint, and it ended with our franchise QB in the operating room due to lack of quality protection.

We might not be able to "name" their lineman, but I can tell you Tom Brady and Andrew Luck can, and they'd certainly both like to have somebody better. If they did, maybe their teams would have been better.

If a quality defensive player is there to be picked at #6 (namely Bosa or Ramsey for me), then I'm all for taking them... that's what I'd prefer. But pretending like LT isn't a problem is ignoring one of the glaring weaknesses on this team.

Well Yanda not being know by 95% of the respectable football fans is an assumption. I'm not sure what your comparison is but he is a starter. Starters at any position with the exception of special teamers are know to respectable football fans. When the depth gets the call, different story, as is the case in Denver and Seattle at LT but still they managed to make some noise. Hell look what the Panthers did with the human penalty machine.

Dallas has had the top ranked O-Line in the league for the past 2 seasons. Tyron was selected at # 9, Martin went around 11-12 and Frederick went late in the first. L'aell was most likely a first rounder but fell out because of off the field concerns. In the 2016 draft Dallas picks two positions ahead of the Ravens so the dominant line theory doesn't equate to a whole lot of wins. Take a look at Tenn. they drafted a LT at 11, two years ago and they and are picking at 1 this year. I can probably go on and on about early LT's and how they didnt provide any real long term production as far as Superbowls but just look at who and where NE, Pitt, Seattle and Denver pick each year.

Joe got hurt against the Rams whose defensive front is a challenge for any squad starters or not. What you failed to recognize in your point is that Brady fires the ball off to offset the rush while Joe holds the ball too long for the home run. Its an adjustment good teams make to compensate for their short comings. The Luck point I don't get he hasn't proven anything yet except he is shades of Testaverde.

 

[billiejean]

Shaq Lawson may be available at 6. It's hard to say who will actually go and in what order. But he is the pass rusher we need.

shaq will definitely be there at six unless he has an amazing combine. He is more of 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB. Doesn't have good hip flexibility and certainly not worthy of the sixth over all pick.

[billiejean]

36 minutes ago, chuchu707 said:

We are truly going to regret it if we dont draft noah spence

On this forum spence is highly overrated. Ever since they did that article on himm everyone on this site (even the ones who didn't know who spence was before the article) has jumped on that bandwagon. People take articles on this site as absolute truths, you need to do your own research, watch some game tape (not just the highlights) and form your opinions. He comes up short in a lot of areas even playing lower level talent. At this point he's not worth the sixth overall pick.

Edited February 11, 2016 by billiejean

[purpledown]

the Ravens are going to regret losing KO and possibly Upshaw too. One or both will probably be in the SB next year. Like we saw this last Sunday. Not exactly sold on Bosa. Noah Spence looks good but he is not worth number 6 pick.

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

Indeed, that would be the case if it was a 2-way tie. But it's a 3-way tie with these two teams and the 49ers, and those are always trickier to resolve.

Goes by strength of schedule, regardless of 2 way or 8 way ties.

[rmcjacket23]

45 minutes ago, Drew P said:

Well Yanda not being know by 95% of the respectable football fans is an assumption. I'm not sure what your comparison is but he is a starter. Starters at any position with the exception of special teamers are know to respectable football fans. When the depth gets the call, different story, as is the case in Denver and Seattle at LT but still they managed to make some noise. Hell look what the Panthers did with the human penalty machine.

Dallas has had the top ranked O-Line in the league for the past 2 seasons. Tyron was selected at # 9, Martin went around 11-12 and Frederick went late in the first. L'aell was most likely a first rounder but fell out because of off the field concerns. In the 2016 draft Dallas picks two positions ahead of the Ravens so the dominant line theory doesn't equate to a whole lot of wins. Take a look at Tenn. they drafted a LT at 11, two years ago and they and are picking at 1 this year. I can probably go on and on about early LT's and how they didnt provide any real long term production as far as Superbowls but just look at who and where NE, Pitt, Seattle and Denver pick each year.

Joe got hurt against the Rams whose defensive front is a challenge for any squad starters or not. What you failed to recognize in your point is that Brady fires the ball off to offset the rush while Joe holds the ball too long for the home run. Its an adjustment good teams make to compensate for their short comings. The Luck point I don't get he hasn't proven anything yet except he is shades of Testaverde.

 

You're making some really ridiculous leaps...

1. No, having a great LT or even a great OL doesn't guarantee you SBs...but then again, having a great anything doesn't guarantee you a SB either. The list of dominant players at practically every position on the field except QB is a mile long with players on bad teams and teams without rings. Pass rushers, corners, WRs,  RBs, etc...all great players at those positions who can't win a thing.

That's why it's a TEAM sport.

2. As for the teams you mentioned who won with backup LTs, sure, you can win in the short term doing that, but it's not sustainable. If the Pats didn't value LT, they wouldn't have used a first round pick in 2011 on Nate Solder and then sign him to an extension worth $10M a year...but they did.

If Denver didn't value LT, then they wouldn't have signed Ryan Clady to a $10M a year deal either, but they did.

If Seattle didn't value LT, then they don't use a top 10 pick on a LT in 2010, but they did.

As a general rule of thumb, when evaluating how important the NFL values a position, all you have to do is follow the money. LT continues to be one of the highest paid positions in the league, which is a direct reflection of the leagues value of them.

[outkast1]

Joey Bosa will have his stock go down after the combine.

[The Negotiator]

Ramsey is who I would target and trade up for. Bosa is great but he could be top pick but would love to have him as well!!!!!