[News] Late For Work 2/9: Is Joe Flacco Elite? America Has Spoken

[BR News]

Flacco would’ve jumped on fumble. Broncos show pass rusher a priority. Stewart raises fair question.

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[harfordravenfan]

No doubt Flacco would've dove head first to grab that fumble. Glad we have him but I need to see more during the season, better accuracy, and decision making before labeling him elite (I consider elite top 5)

 

[Dorota]

If we get Sizzle back in full power, we'll be okay if we take a pass rusher in the draft and develop him and Za'Darius Smith. And I sure hope that's the case. Sizzle commands a lot of respect on the field and is a spectacle to watch. If he's not good to go, it would do us better if we could get a GOOD free agent, but Ravens won't be able to afford one good enough to be worth it. So draft it is!

Flacco is tough as nails. Not sure why Cam didn't dive. Honestly, I've seen the guy and he seems to be quite tough otherwise, not afraid of contact, so I'd put it down to brain glitch rather than sissiness. His OL didn't hold for nothing all day long and it rattled Mr Confident, as well as the nerves from the SB. I like the guy, despite the diva manners, but he's still got some maturing to do.

[bioLarzen]

A totally unimportant question about the Cam Newton fumble case: what would the refs say if, instead of jumping on the ball, Newton KICKED the ball out of the Denver player's hand as he's trying to grab it on the ground (as seen in the clip)? Would it yield a penalty?

[bioLarzen]

I'm kinda happy with Darian Stewart and Owen Daniels getting their rings... Although both only palyed one season in Baltimore, both players' contribution has been grossly underappreciated IMHO. Yep, Stewart is no Ed Reed and OD is no Todd Heap - but both have had absolutely solid seasons in purple... And man, could we utilize a Darian Stewart... (Owen's - with Kubiak's move quite foreseeable - departure might have been a blessing in disguise, infact, as we would have probably not trade up for Maxx Williams to leapfrog the steelers with OD still with us... so, losing him at least has benefits :D)

[Dorota]

6 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

I'm kinda happy with Darian Stewart and Owen Daniels getting their rings... Although both only palyed one season in Baltimore, both players' contribution has been grossly underappreciated IMHO. Yep, Stewart is no Ed Reed and OD is no Todd Heap - but both have had absolutely solid seasons in purple... And man, could we utilize a Darian Stewart... (Owen's - with Kubiak's move quite foreseeable - departure might have been a blessing in disguise, infact, as we would have probably not trade up for Maxx Williams to leapfrog the steelers with OD still with us... so, losing him at least has benefits :D)

So am I. I liked Owen Daniels. In fact, in the short time I follow football it seems to me, that Ozzie is pretty good with selecting the TEs he wants (I wonder why  ), both in free agency and in the draft. Owen Daniels came up solid for us. Dallas Clark was waning physically, but he's been reliable enough, tough enough when on the field and good hands! And Pitta, Gilmore, Williams and Boyle speak for themselves.

[ravenwildman]

Flacco is elite, see the company he was with at the SB salute to MVPs. A national poll will only reflect the garbage the media puts out to belittle Flacco's accomplishments. I mean with his resume, it is ridiculous to even realistically question him. But....Raven haters keep hating, and unfortunately Big Joe gets the...bad....end of the stick. Besides, he is OUR QB, so let all the haters go... jump in a lake (it's hard staying PG-13 with comments lol)! GO RAVENS!

[jravens13]

Newton not diving on that fumble, combined with the lackadaisical offense that had ZERO concern for the clock when they were down in the 2nd half made me question the credibility of the entire game. The Panthers offense looked gassed out at the end of the first half, and normally they get stronger as the game goes on. Maybe the pressure of Denver was just that overwhelming, but it almost looked like the two teams were drinking different Gatorades on the sideline...Conspiracy? Who knows...

But to break down Denver's Defense is is much more than two dominant edge rushers (Ware and Miller) They also have THREE 1st Round picks as their starting CB's (Roby, Talib, and Harris). They have interior lineman that are stout, yet also capable of generating a rush (Derek Wolfe, Malik Jackson, and Sylvester Williams). They have ILB's that were late draft picks (Marshall &Trevathan), but can absolutely fly sideline to sideline, because they are undersized compared to the history of the position. Their speed also gives them an advantage in coverage, and in blitzing situations. They invested heavily in their SS TJ Ward, and their FS (Darian Stewart) is a journeyman who played well for us last year. They also have some decent depth at certain positions, DE and OLB where they can keep guys rushing the passer fresh. Credit Elway the QB, for adjusting to today's Pass happy game and getting personnel that will terrorize opposing QB's and a coach with a history of bringing pressure (Wade Phillips).

On their Defense they had (6) former 1st Round Picks, and (2) 2nd Rounders.

Our defense is not built anything like this:
Former 1st Rounders: (3) Suggs, Mosley, J. Smith
Former 2nd Rounders: (3) Upshaw, Daryl Smith, Jerrnigan

We clearly haven't invested enough in our defense over the last 5 years, as we have emphasized adding to the offense. And our offense is still just mediocre. Elway has the modern recipe for what works on defense. Ozzie might be living in the 2000s still.

Edited February 9, 2016 by jravens13

[billiejean]

A totally unimportant question about the Cam Newton fumble case: what would the refs say if, instead of jumping on the ball, Newton KICKED the ball out of the Denver player's hand as he's trying to grab it on the ground (as seen in the clip)? Would it yield a penalty?

you can't intentionally kick the ball. its a fifteen yard penalty

[jravens13]

Flacco is elite, see the company he was with at the SB salute to MVPs. A national poll will only reflect the garbage the media puts out to belittle Flacco's accomplishments. I mean with his resume, it is ridiculous to even realistically question him. But....Raven haters keep hating, and unfortunately Big Joe gets the...bad....end of the stick. Besides, he is OUR QB, so let all the haters go... jump in a lake (it's hard staying PG-13 with comments lol)! GO RAVENS!

Elite is a meaningless adjective to label a QB with. There are so many other moving parts that affect the play of a QB: Offensive line play, the offensive game plan/play calling, WR's play, the running game, the defense, Special teams play, field position, penalties, playing through an injury, and the most underestimated of them all: LUCK.

Cam Newton is the closest thing I have seen to a QB putting a team on his back, yet he still had a dominant defense, an excellent play caller, good kicking game, and played with great field position. Even with all that in place, we all got to see how that fell apart when his O-Line, Running Game, and WR's vanished.

QB is the most important, yet overrated position in the NFL. If that makes any sense. Keep handing out the $100M dollar contracts to mediocre QB, and watch as more and more average QB's win Super Bowls. The money could be better spent. I would rather spend a 1st Round pick on a QB than pay one $25M a year.

[The Voice]

Being elite means nothing. Are you a franchise QB or not should be the question. Joe is definitely a franchise QB. Now is he top 5, maybe not but neither where the SB QB's this year. Joe has a playoff switch that we he turns on he ranks among the best. That's a huge reason nobody wants to play us come January. We have never been 1 in done in the playoffs!

[sami]

It amazes me that no matter how bad the Cowboys are or how bad they have been for a long time, they still end up in the top 10 to go to the Super Bowl.

[billiejean]

Newton not diving on that fumble, combined with the lackadaisical offense that had ZERO concern for the clock when they were down in the 2nd half made me question the credibility of the entire game. The Panthers offense looked gassed out at the end of the first half, and normally they get stronger as the game goes on. Maybe the pressure of Denver was just that overwhelming, but it almost looked like the two teams were drinking different Gatorades on the sideline...Conspiracy? Who knows...

But to break down Denver's Defense is is much more than two dominant edge rushers (Ware and Miller) They also have THREE 1st Round picks as their starting CB's (Roby, Talib, and Harris). They have interior lineman that are stout, yet also capable of generating a rush (Derek Wolfe, Malik Jackson, and Sylvester Williams). They have ILB's that were late draft picks (Marshall &Trevathan), but can absolutely fly sideline to sideline, because they are undersized compared to the history of the position. Their speed also gives them an advantage in coverage, and in blitzing situations. They invested heavily in their SS TJ Ward, and their FS (Darian Stewart) is a journeyman who played well for us last year. They also have some decent depth at certain positions, DE and OLB where they can keep guys rushing the passer fresh. Credit Elway the QB, for adjusting to today's Pass happy game and getting personnel that will terrorize opposing QB's and a coach with a history of bringing pressure (Wade Phillips).

On their Defense they had (6) former 1st Round Picks, and (2) 2nd Rounders.

Our defense is not built anything like this:
Former 1st Rounders: (3) Suggs, Mosley, J. Smith
Former 2nd Rounders: (3) Upshaw, Daryl Smith, Jerrnigan

We clearly haven't invested enough in our defense over the last 5 years, as we have emphasized adding to the offense. And our offense is still just mediocre. Elway has the modern recipe for what works on defense. Ozzie might be living in the 2000s still.

believe it or not Harris was a UFA. sure does play like a first rounder though.

[The Greek]

this flacco elite crap is so stupid. wonder if oz will stick to his bpa scheme or target our biggest position of need which is pass rusher(s). ? is aside from bosa is a player like spence rated higher than lets say ramsey on our board. if both are available when we pick does oz go cb which is a need or pass rusher which is the bigger need. i personally believe we trade back a few spots hoping to draft spence while acquiring extra picks which we could pkg. to move back into the bottom of the 1st to grab another player we covet

[ellicottraven]

Regardless of whether Flacco is elite or not really doesn't affect us. The only thing that affects us are wins and losses and how well Flacco can manage and win games for us. Last year Flacco was bad and there is no objective way of debating that and then was lost for the season due to an unfortunate injury. Having said that, we can't rest on the laurels of Flacco winning us a SB with his remarkable playoff run either. Like the world, we need to look forward to what he can do for us in the future. Can he get back to his winning ways or was 2015 not really an anomaly but merely a glimpse at things to come? I'm hoping he'll be more than a serviceable QB for us and that is really what we need. Who cares whether Joe is elite or not. To us it doesn't matter because we like him here leading our team.

[The Greek]

Newton not diving on that fumble, combined with the lackadaisical offense that had ZERO concern for the clock when they were down in the 2nd half made me question the credibility of the entire game. The Panthers offense looked gassed out at the end of the first half, and normally they get stronger as the game goes on. Maybe the pressure of Denver was just that overwhelming, but it almost looked like the two teams were drinking different Gatorades on the sideline...Conspiracy? Who knows...

But to break down Denver's Defense is is much more than two dominant edge rushers (Ware and Miller) They also have THREE 1st Round picks as their starting CB's (Roby, Talib, and Harris). They have interior lineman that are stout, yet also capable of generating a rush (Derek Wolfe, Malik Jackson, and Sylvester Williams). They have ILB's that were late draft picks (Marshall &Trevathan), but can absolutely fly sideline to sideline, because they are undersized compared to the history of the position. Their speed also gives them an advantage in coverage, and in blitzing situations. They invested heavily in their SS TJ Ward, and their FS (Darian Stewart) is a journeyman who played well for us last year. They also have some decent depth at certain positions, DE and OLB where they can keep guys rushing the passer fresh. Credit Elway the QB, for adjusting to today's Pass happy game and getting personnel that will terrorize opposing QB's and a coach with a history of bringing pressure (Wade Phillips).

On their Defense they had (6) former 1st Round Picks, and (2) 2nd Rounders.

Our defense is not built anything like this:
Former 1st Rounders: (3) Suggs, Mosley, J. Smith
Former 2nd Rounders: (3) Upshaw, Daryl Smith, Jerrnigan

We clearly haven't invested enough in our defense over the last 5 years, as we have emphasized adding to the offense. And our offense is still just mediocre. Elway has the modern recipe for what works on defense. Ozzie might be living in the 2000s still.

wish we could trade pees, arthur brown and i would even sweeten the deal by throwing in often injured camponaro and even often injured eugene monroe for wade philips. more than fair trade imo

[RavensBaltimore]

Watching other qbs in the playoffs should really make everyone appreciate Flacco more. You can debate if he is elite, but in the postseason, he is the best in the league, and one of the best all time. Carson Palmer had an MVP caliber season, and couldn't handle the pressure of the postseason. Brady has a horrible playoff game like the one he had in Denver almost every year. Manning has never been great in the playoffs. Newton was supposed to be the next face of the league, and he was awful in the SB. Since entering his prime in 2010, Flacco has always played well in the postseason. He has 24TDs and 4INTs since then. Neither Brady nor Manning has ever come close to a dominant run like that. Flacco has 4 consecutive postseasons with at least a 3-1 TD/INT ratio. That's more than the entire careers of Brady and Manning COMBINED. He hasn't thrown more ints than tds in a postseason game since 2009, and he has an all time record(which is still active) of 8 consecutive postseason games with multiple td passes. I could go on and on listing his postseason accomplishments, and he's done it all without ever having a great receiving corps, and there's been a revolving door at OC.

[fusuymada]

I wish we could convince Joe he's not elite so he takes a really big pay cut this year. JK. Really, Joe is a Baltimore type guy. He's not pretty (though the girls loved his new haircut), he's not a glam queen (like Brady), and his accuracy leaves something to be desired, but he is nitty, gritty, in the dirt, on the fumble, play with torn ligaments, blue collar, stay in the pocket, lower his shoulder, take the hit yet still stand up and do it all again kind of QB. A perfect reflection of Baltimore.

[The Greek]

  47 minutes ago, The Greek said:

wish we could trade pees, arthur brown and i would even sweeten the deal by throwing in often injured camponaro and even often injured eugene monroe for wade philips. more than fair trade imo

Thankfully you're not our GM

philips is an upgrade over pees. arthur brown has been useless thus far. campanaro will always be injured and we would unload monroes $$ which could be used to sign osemele. sounds like a great trade to me but of course it would never happen. was just dreaming :)

[JoeyFlex5]

broncos didnt show that pass rusher was a priority, i think the panthers showed that OL was a priority.

[bioLarzen]

4 hours ago, billiejean said:

you can't intentionally kick the ball. its a fifteen yard penalty

... which is still better than a lost fumble...

 

Thanks for the info.

[bioLarzen]

3 hours ago, The Voice said:

Being elite means nothing. Are you a franchise QB or not should be the question. Joe is definitely a franchise QB. Now is he top 5, maybe not but neither where the SB QB's this year. Joe has a playoff switch that we he turns on he ranks among the best. That's a huge reason nobody wants to play us come January. We have never been 1 in done in the playoffs!

 

Yeah - it never ceases to amaze me how much intensity and animosity goes into debating over something that has never even been - and cannot possibly ever be - defined... What's "elite"? What makes a QB elite? Ask 10 experts and you'll get 10 different definitions.

Debating over whether or not a QB is elite is about the same intellectual height as debating over whether apples or oranges taste better...

Edited February 9, 2016 by bioLarzen

[bioLarzen]

3 hours ago, sami said:

It amazes me that no matter how bad the Cowboys are or how bad they have been for a long time, they still end up in the top 10 to go to the Super Bowl.

Luckily, given how important these predictions are, they can go on giving the Cowboys the highest chance year in year out, it still won't matter a bit ;)

[Ugly Ball]

I wish we could convince Joe he's not elite so he takes a really big pay cut this year. JK. Really, Joe is a Baltimore type guy. He's not pretty (though the girls loved his new haircut), he's not a glam queen (like Brady), and his accuracy leaves something to be desired, but he is nitty, gritty, in the dirt, on the fumble, play with torn ligaments, blue collar, stay in the pocket, lower his shoulder, take the hit yet still stand up and do it all again kind of QB. A perfect reflection of Baltimore.

My thought exactly! Joe is not the problem on this team.
I think something on a defensive coaching level needs to change! Maybe a couple solid receivers, a couple pass rushers and a ball hawk in the backfield ! This would go a long way twards getting us into the playoffs next year.

[Crusader]

It was great seeing Joe WALK out of that tunnel and not limping. Cam is all talk. Seen his type before and their really quitters. He wanted everyone watch him dance around, well he danced around that fumble of his.

[robbie29]

If we get Sizzle back in full power, we'll be okay if we take a pass rusher in the draft and develop him and Za'Darius Smith. And I sure hope that's the case. Sizzle commands a lot of respect on the field and is a spectacle to watch. If he's not good to go, it would do us better if we could get a GOOD free agent, but Ravens won't be able to afford one good enough to be worth it. So draft it is!

Flacco is tough as nails. Not sure why Cam didn't dive. Honestly, I've seen the guy and he seems to be quite tough otherwise, not afraid of contact, so I'd put it down to brain glitch rather than sissiness. His OL didn't hold for nothing all day long and it rattled Mr Confident, as well as the nerves from the SB. I like the guy, despite the diva manners, but he's still got some maturing to do.

"If we get Sizzle back in full power, we'll be okay..."
I agree, but that is one pretty big IF. He's coming off a 2nd achilles tear in 4 years, and he'll turn 34 next season. Zadarius Smith gives good reason for optimism so he's at least a decent alternative. I'm not pinning a whole lotta hope on Suggs returning to form.

[Bruce_Almty]

This topic kills me. One can never get enough of "Is Joe Elite?" smh and lmao

[JamesA119]

Joe Flacco is not elite. He is inconsistent in the regular. He plays very well in the post season.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

This topic kills me. One can never get enough of "Is Joe Elite?" smh and lmao

Agreed. I would rather Joe is in the media because of ridiculously long running jokes, than many of the other less pleasant stories/headlines. I think it is becoming similar to Chuck Norris jokes but in the sports realm. "Top scientists from around the world having spent the last five years seeking out an answer. Is Joe Flacco elite?"

[Maryland]

Never has the aphorism "you can never have enough pass rushers" been illustrated more effectively than with the Denver Broncos. They have Von Miller, D.Ware, Derek Wolfe, Shaquil Barrett, and Shane Ray all coming off the edge (and Malik Jackson providing good interior pressure). Having such a deep rotation keeps your defense fresh and your pass rush potent. I hope value meets need when it comes to pass rushers in this coming draft.