Pre-Combine Mock Draft

[PurpleCity5]

3 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Do we have a choice but to take the chance with Wright, though?  Of course it's a risk, but if you don't re-sign him, your CBs are Jimmy Smith, Will Davis, and Tray Walker.  Not only that, but you enter the bidding for other UFAs and we've seen how high those prices can get.  My thinking with Wright is that he won't be overly expensive and we have a better shot to re-sign him than another UFA.  On Wright's side, he found an organization that actually put him in a position to succeed, and he has his best friend here.  I think you still look to upgrade, but to be honest, Wright would be #1 on the (realistic) priority list as crazy as that might sound.

Oh I'm not saying I wouldn't want Wright back. I really do want him back here, I just see many people point out here that the need for a CB is less apparent because of Shareece Wright. I really disagree with that, I feel like we've been down this road before honestly. I would bring him back, but primarily as a depth guy, I don't  see him as a guy who will solve our issues at CB. 

Edited February 8, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[rmw10]

Just now, PurpleCity5 said:

Oh I'm not saying I wouldn't want Wright back. I really do want him back here, I just see many people point out here that the need for a CB is less apparent because of Shareece Wright. I really disagree with that, I feel like we've been down this road before honestly. I would bring him back, but primarily as a depth guy, I don't  see him as a guy who will solve our issues at CB. 

Gotcha.  Yeah, same here.  I think we have to re-sign Wright for the simple fact that we actually found someone that looks competent, but he isn't the savior. I like him best as a #3/4 guy, but if last year was any indication, I could settle with him as a #2 while a rookie learns.

[PurpleCity5]

3 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I don't mind Buckner but I just have others ahead of him for this team. For me it's just that simple. He's not clearly the best DL in this class, either, and that also makes it tough to take him above others. I personally would take the following players before him:

1. Laremy Tunsil

2. Jalen Ramsey

3. Jaylon Smith

4. Joey Bosa

5. Ronnie Stanley

6. DeForest Buckner

That's how I see it at this moment. I doubt all five of those guys ahead of him are gone, but if they were them I'd certainly take him. 

That's how I see it. I don't imagine all five of those guys being gone, especially with Cleveland taking a QB at No.2. I also agree that if they were gone, then Buckner should be a Raven. 

[GrimCoconut]

2 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Any of the CBs, Ramsey, Hargreaves, and Alexander will have a tough outing against those guys. It's a given, would it make the situation better with Wright and Davis there? Those guys will get toasted anyways honestly. 

 

I understand those concerns you have with Smith and while its legitimate, its been reported that Jaylon Smith's injury isn't as serious as some make it out to be. It's not as serious as some make it out to be and he should play a full 16 game season if he progresses as expected. Honestly, there is no one in this draft who has a better work ethic and body of work than Jaylon Smith. He works hard, I'm confident that if asked to make the transition to OLB, that he would do everything he could to make it happen. 

This isn't in reference to JoeyFlex5, but others do this a lot. 

I bet Jaylon Smith would be the guy if we picked a little lower, but then again, people would say how we "have no shot at him at all" and talk him up like he's a god or something. For some strange reason, the prospects we have no chance at getting are easily hyped while the prospects we may be able to get always seem to have warts people love to expose. 

[PurpleCity5]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Gotcha.  Yeah, same here.  I think we have to re-sign Wright for the simple fact that we actually found someone that looks competent, but he isn't the savior. I like him best as a #3/4 guy, but if last year was any indication, I could settle with him as a #2 while a rookie learns.

Yeah, I feel like we've fell for this trap too many times. Guy emerges at CB, comes out of nowhere and turns heads, leaves F.O optimistic about CB and we decide not to invest in it, next season arrives and he gets lit up, then the season ends and we talk about how we need a CB again. I'm just not feeling passing on a need early. Best players in the draft go early, why not fill your needs with the best players. Waiting until later is what keeps CB and WR as needs. 

Edited February 8, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[GrimCoconut]

2 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

That's how I see it. I don't imagine all five of those guys being gone, especially with Cleveland taking a QB at No.2. I also agree that if they were gone, then Buckner should be a Raven. 

I had a really tough time making that list. I wanted to put Myles Jack there, but I just couldn't put him above Buckner at this time. He's narrowly right up there for me, personally.

[GrimCoconut]

34 minutes ago, Drew P said:

But they draft BPA not by need.

f they select Stanley where does he play and what do they do with Monroe and his cap hit?

Honestly, I love the Ravens and all but that's just not true. I'm going to call it like it is here but we don't really draft purely based off of BPA. We do a mix of BPA with need. I don't think we would go with a lower-rated (or tiered, if that's an easier way to explain it) player over a higher one; however, I do think we would take a player at a position of need if the two players are in the same tier/close in ranking. For instance, we really needed a CB when we selected Jimmy Smith, but we could've had Wilkerson. I personally had both players closely rated. The Ravens selected Jimmy because we had better depth at DL than we did CB, and there was a need at CB. 

Monroe? Well, I don't know. Perhaps we keep him and hope he gets better and play Stanley at LG? Then slide Stanley over to LT if/when Monroe gets hurt? 

[Drew P]

1 minute ago, GrimCoconut said:

Monroe? Well, I don't know. Perhaps we keep him and hope he gets better and play Stanley at LG? Then slide Stanley over to LT if/when Monroe gets hurt? 

Thats early for a guard and also considering Urshel has earned his keep on the line if KO is a goner. Jensen can probably retained as well on the cheap.

Stanley is legit but i have to think Jalen or Buckner if available are realistic to have the immediate impact the FO spoke about.

[GrimCoconut]

Just now, Drew P said:

Thats early for a guard and also considering Urshel has earned his keep on the line if KO is a goner. Jensen can probably retained as well on the cheap.

Stanley is legit but i have to think Jalen or Buckner if available are realistic to have the immediate impact the FO spoke about.

JO was taken as a guard & later moved to LT. I agree on Ramsey, but not sure I agree on Buckner. 

[PurpleCity5]

3 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

This isn't in reference to JoeyFlex5, but others do this a lot. 

I bet Jaylon Smith would be the guy if we picked a little lower, but then again, people would say how we "have no shot at him at all" and talk him up like he's a god or something. For some strange reason, the prospects we have no chance at getting are easily hyped while the prospects we may be able to get always seem to have warts people love to expose. 

Definitely agree, I like our options at 6, we should get some talent there. 

 

If I had to guess today, and Tunsil, Bosa, and Ramsey were all gone, then I would guess it would come down to Smith, Stanley, and Buckner, and I think Smith gets the phone call. I personally think there is too much value there, a guy who could potentially be a OLB/ILB hybrid for you. I disagreed with this comparison before but I really think its more spot on than some others and I think Clay Matthews is someone who comes to mind when looking at Jaylon Smith. While Clay had more punch on blockers, its one that I think compares favorably since Matthews was an linebacker before converting to OLB/DE. I think he made the jump to edge rusher at his final year at USC? or was it DE? I don't know. 

 

 

[PurpleCity5]

11 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I had a really tough time making that list. I wanted to put Myles Jack there, but I just couldn't put him above Buckner at this time. He's narrowly right up there for me, personally.

I like Myles Jack a lot honestly, but I just see him as a ILB, I can't put him above Buckner either. I think Smith is better overall because of his pass rush and he does everything Jack does, some might say his coverage is better. I like Jack but I'd put him outside of the top 6 as well.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Any of the CBs, Ramsey, Hargreaves, and Alexander will have a tough outing against those guys. It's a given, would it make the situation better with Wright and Davis there? Those guys will get toasted anyways honestly. 

 

I understand those concerns you have with Smith and while its legitimate, its been reported that Jaylon Smith's injury isn't as serious as some make it out to be. It's not as serious as some make it out to be and he should play a full 16 game season if he progresses as expected. Honestly, there is no one in this draft who has a better work ethic and body of work than Jaylon Smith. He works hard, I'm confident that if asked to make the transition to OLB, that he would do everything he could to make it happen. 

i just have a hard time believing that though, obviously doctors and medical staff are gonna give encouraging news as much as possible, im sure he and his agent are paying these people and they have no problem stretching the truth. 

 

i think it could be fair to use gurley as a baseline here, he was injured much earlier, and it didnt appear to be as severe, actually according to reports it was very minor, and he was projected to suit up week 1 and be able to play in the preseason and all that good stuff, but he didnt suit up until week 3. i will believe that jaylon smith can suit up week 1 when i see it, i absolutely would not bet on it though.

[RaineV1]

8 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I don't mind Buckner but I just have others ahead of him for this team. For me it's just that simple. He's not clearly the best DL in this class, either, and that also makes it tough to take him above others. I personally would take the following players before him:

1. Laremy Tunsil

2. Jalen Ramsey

3. Jaylon Smith

4. Joey Bosa

5. Ronnie Stanley

6. DeForest Buckner

That's how I see it at this moment. I doubt all five of those guys ahead of him are gone, but if they were them I'd certainly take him. 

I get that DL could be a weakness,@JoeyFlex5, and every year we over rate a position that ends up being a weakness. DL could be it this year. That said, we absolutely need secondary, edge defenders, and a reliable LT. Sometimes need comes first and I think this is that moment. 

I'd put Buckner over Stanley and Bosa. The ceiling for Buckner and Bosa seems fairly even, but Buckner has a better chance of reaching his potential with the Ravens than Bosa does. As for Stanley, I like him but not at 6. Personally, I place Stanley on a tier lower than Buckner and the other top guys.

Quote

The pass rush isn't deep, but I really put that on our OLB for the failure to hit home. I think we need faster and better edge rushers. I think our DEs contributed to the problem early on, but the edge did not do us a favor at all. 

While Doom still has a good couple years, I'd rather grab a great DE. Buckner and Doom together on the right side could be overwhelming for most RGs and RTs. Also, most of the time interior pressure is harder for QBs to deal with than pressure off the edge.

8 hours ago, Drew P said:

I'm all for Buckner at 6 however, I would like to see the secondary or the WR position addressed in the second round.

They just cant be content with SSS and a ? in Perriman being the 1 and 2.

This draft is fairly deep at WR. I think Higgins, Miller, and Shepard (all considered late 2nd, early 3rd picks) are guys that can produce right away. And I simply have more faith in out WRs and TEs to produce in the passing game than I do in Monroe finishing a season, or Hurst being a competent backup LT.

Edited February 9, 2016 by RaineV1

[PurpleCity5]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i just have a hard time believing that though, obviously doctors and medical staff are gonna give encouraging news as much as possible, im sure he and his agent are paying these people and they have no problem stretching the truth. 

 

i think it could be fair to use gurley as a baseline here, he was injured much earlier, and it didnt appear to be as severe, actually according to reports it was very minor, and he was projected to suit up week 1 and be able to play in the preseason and all that good stuff, but he didnt suit up until week 3. i will believe that jaylon smith can suit up week 1 when i see it, i absolutely would not bet on it though.

Even if that's the case, even if its three games he will miss, that still is not a strong enough reason for me(Don't know about Oz) to pass up on him when it can potentially fill in a position of need, especially when a guy like Jaylon Smith who can make that OLB conversion will be your best first round draft pick since Joe Flacco? I mean he's seriously that good and I can't pass up on that. 

[JoeyFlex5]

13 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Even if that's the case, even if its three games he will miss, that still is not a strong enough reason for me(Don't know about Oz) to pass up on him when it can potentially fill in a position of need, especially when a guy like Jaylon Smith who can make that OLB conversion will be your best first round draft pick since Joe Flacco? I mean he's seriously that good and I can't pass up on that. 

Well saying our best first rounder since Joe is easy when the only pick we had outside of the top 24 was 17th and this year were picking at 6th lol. 

 

And it could also be a stretch to just assume that he can make the conversion and just tailor himself to your needs, I like his rushing ability but I haven't seen enough to make me say "this traditional LB is also a top 10 edge rusher". 

 

And the Gurley comparison wasn't about when he can suit up, it's the severity of the knee. They overplayed Gurley and his knee and yeah he came back and played lights out, but what's to say the injury is worse than is being led on and were depending on this guy to be an olb for us but he is too busy rehabbing all year to work on the transition.. And this isn't conjecture either, Smith will not hAve enough time to rehab, adjust to the pros, and switch to edge rusher, all at once, if we draft him with this in mind then we are dreaming in the FO and asking way too much of a guy who is taking his first nfl reps in a knee brace and likely misses ota's and probably training camp as well

[CorvusMagnus]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Well saying our best first rounder since Joe is easy when the only pick we had outside of the top 24 was 17th and this year were picking at 6th lol. 

 

And it could also be a stretch to just assume that he can make the conversion and just tailor himself to your needs, I like his rushing ability but I haven't seen enough to make me say "this traditional LB is also a top 10 edge rusher". 

 

And the Gurley comparison wasn't about when he can suit up, it's the severity of the knee. They overplayed Gurley and his knee and yeah he came back and played lights out, but what's to say the injury is worse than is being led on and were depending on this guy to be an olb for us but he is too busy rehabbing all year to work on the transition.. And this isn't conjecture either, Smith will not hAve enough time to rehab, adjust to the pros, and switch to edge rusher, all at once, if we draft him with this in mind then we are dreaming in the FO and asking way too much of a guy who is taking his first nfl reps in a knee brace and likely misses ota's and probably training camp as well

We are fortunate as fans that neither 3/4 DE nor OLB are true, immediate needs despite fragility and turnover at those positions. If this were not the case then Deforest Buckner would get the nod from me as Jaylon Smith's early contributions will indeed be limited by injuries and the complexities of learning the position. Barring sudden injury (which we can't really plan for apart from creating depth), the Raven's can afford to let Smith develop into  starter over the course of the year.

I think the mix of pass and run defence capabilities that Smtih provides are much harder to come by at any point in the draft then even a top shelf DE like Buckner. Regardless of whether Jaylon Smith becomes a good rusher or a great one, he provides the kind of positional flexibility that helps the DC disguise his plays and counter modern high tempo offences.

Now if you honestly think Buckner can become more then a quality run blocker who can get regular sacks through single teams, I would feel better about this pick. Unfortunately I don't see Buckner blowing through defences fast enough to beat a Brady to the punch, or defeating double teams with frequency. My homework this week is to go through DraftBreakdown's footage of him, and maybe some Calais Campbell film if I can find it.

[PurpleCity5]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Well saying our best first rounder since Joe is easy when the only pick we had outside of the top 24 was 17th and this year were picking at 6th lol. 

 

And it could also be a stretch to just assume that he can make the conversion and just tailor himself to your needs, I like his rushing ability but I haven't seen enough to make me say "this traditional LB is also a top 10 edge rusher". 

 

And the Gurley comparison wasn't about when he can suit up, it's the severity of the knee. They overplayed Gurley and his knee and yeah he came back and played lights out, but what's to say the injury is worse than is being led on and were depending on this guy to be an olb for us but he is too busy rehabbing all year to work on the transition.. And this isn't conjecture either, Smith will not hAve enough time to rehab, adjust to the pros, and switch to edge rusher, all at once, if we draft him with this in mind then we are dreaming in the FO and asking way too much of a guy who is taking his first nfl reps in a knee brace and likely misses ota's and probably training camp as well

Well, I guess we're going to agree to disagree here, as I said before, no one in this draft works harder than Jaylon Smith. I know that there are guys who work hard in this draft but Smith's work ethic is simply unrivaled. I don't think the switch to OLB here will be that big of a transition, of course there will be a learning curve but that comes with being an NFL rookie, but I think long-term he can develop into an amazing rush OLB with elite linebacker coverage skills. 

 

I brought up Joe simply because I felt that it was one that made the most sense, I mean lets be honest, there's no one since 2008 who has been a better draft pick than Joe, that was what I was getting at. While the pick was made at 18, our original pick in that draft was 8th overall, there was a lot of pressure that draft as well, I don't think the pressure our F.O is in this draft will eclipse 2008. 

 

As for the injury, it was reported that it wasn't that serious, but we'll see during the combine, if he tests out well there then there is nothing more to discuss there. Its waiting game from then on.

Edited February 9, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[JoeyFlex5]

@purplecity5 but an acl tear is always serious, even if advancements in medicine have minimized the effects. And work ethic simply can't replace biology. He tore it in December is believe, so a surgically repaired torn acl, you're expecting will be fully rehabbed in less than 8 months? Because that is approximately the time between injury and training camp, he can't work on the transition while rehabbing, that's how you re injure and end up on ir, so even if he is good to go in July/august then he has the preseason to work on that transition, and he will likely be in questionable playing shape as well because he hasn't been prepping for real football action. 

 

I'll just never be on board with taking him at 6. There are way too many very real risks and he still isn't even a real OLB for us, which is what we are looking for. If he never got injured, then I'm on board, but I can't live with the thought of a first round pick missing the season for 2 years straight, acls aren't as serious but they can still detail a season if not properly rehabbed, and we all know the ravens have a stellar medical team. 

 

But yeah lol.I'll agree to disagree

Edited February 9, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[RavensDieHard21]

16 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I wouldn't take Smith or vh3 over buckner but that may just be me lol

This little debate was interesting, but I agree that if I were Ozzie and the top shelf 3 players are gone, I would without hesitation pull the trigger on Buckner, that's if there are no trade back offers. Trust me, I think generating a pass rush and CBs are our major concerns, but unless Alexander or HG3 set the combine on fire, then I don't see us using our #6 pick on them. Unfortunately, even though they both possess very high ceilings and are both technicians, their lack of size is slightly concerning, in addition to HG3's abilities in run support and Alexander's ball skills or ability to contest balls against big athletic pass catchers. 

Buckner just has a very high ceiling and a very high floor, especially playing DE in a 3-4, where he will line up next to Williams and Jernigan. His motor is relentless and his physical composition is incredibly imposing. Watching tape on him, it will be easy to see why he will be a safe pick, simply because he not only has a motor and is 6'7 and 300 lbs, but he has immense strength to plow through guards and interior blockers, as well as technique to disengage those blockers to immediately get pressure up the middle. 

Edited February 9, 2016 by RavensDieHard21

[Drew P]

12 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

This draft is fairly deep at WR. I think Higgins, Miller, and Shepard (all considered late 2nd, early 3rd picks) are guys that can produce right away. And I simply have more faith in out WRs and TEs to produce in the passing game than I do in Monroe finishing a season, or Hurst being a competent backup LT.

That's been the issue at the WR position since forever. Watching the top tier guys come off the board and settling on a mid rounder or later and expecting miracles.

[usmccharles]

5 minutes ago, Drew P said:

That's been the issue at the WR position since forever. Watching the top tier guys come off the board and settling on a mid rounder or later and expecting miracles.

I agree.  I posted it in another thread about how we should evaluate our scouts that have been grading WRs.  How are teams like the Packers, Steelers, Jags, etc drafting studs in late rounds when we miss? Well clearly our talent evaluators aren't as good as theirs in that one area.  Imo some changes should be made on that specific process. 

Does anyone know much about the scouting process?  that would be a good thread to have.  I know scouts have different regions, but do they also have position scouts, etc....hopefully someone is informed

[Drew P]

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

I agree.  I posted it in another thread about how we should evaluate our scouts that have been grading WRs.  How are teams like the Packers, Steelers, Jags, etc drafting studs in late rounds when we miss? Well clearly our talent evaluators aren't as good as theirs in that one area.  Imo some changes should be made on that specific process. 

Does anyone know much about the scouting process?  that would be a good thread to have.  I know scouts have different regions, but do they also have position scouts, etc....hopefully someone is informed

No doubt about it.

The FO is also stuck in the 2001 offensive mentality... ground and pound.

[usmccharles]

26 minutes ago, Drew P said:

No doubt about it.

The FO is also stuck in the 2001 offensive mentality... ground and pound.

Ground and pound could still work if we had the talent.   But we don't.  

[RaineV1]

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I agree.  I posted it in another thread about how we should evaluate our scouts that have been grading WRs.  How are teams like the Packers, Steelers, Jags, etc drafting studs in late rounds when we miss? Well clearly our talent evaluators aren't as good as theirs in that one area.  Imo some changes should be made on that specific process. 

Does anyone know much about the scouting process?  that would be a good thread to have.  I know scouts have different regions, but do they also have position scouts, etc....hopefully someone is informed

I think it had a lot to do with coaching. The Steelers and Jags can take a midround WR and then develop them. We couldn't. But I we'll be a bit better with Engram around as the WR coach and SSS showing them the ropes. Plus, if he's there, I just believe Spriggs has more value than Boyd or Doctson (or whoever will be available in the early 2nd). Kubiak showed just how important it is to control the line of scrimmage when he was our OC, and the Ravens badly need a consistent LT.