[News] Late For Work 2/5: Ravens' Potential Salary-Cap Casualties

[Halshayeji]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yeah, definitely not buying it. I'm not sure people fully understand what it takes to sign a RFA away from another team to begin with...

1. Ignoring the comp pick process, Ozzie's generally not a fan of trading picks for players, particularly quality picks. In this case, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that when you guys are discussing possibly signing RFAs from other teams, you're thinking of signing actual quality players, not just sending a 6th round pick for a player, which would be more likely to happen. If that happens, most people wouldn't even bat an eye, as its the equivalent of trading for a guy like Will Davis. Its a signing, but most people don't even care and it largely goes unnoticed for the most part.

2. Given that, the "quality" RFAs are getting assigned high tenders, meaning 2nd and 3rd round tenders or higher. I'd be absolutely stunned if Ozzie agreed to trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick for practically anybody this season, particularly somebody that he then basically has to pay market value for.

3. On top of all of that... in order to sign an RFA away from a team, you would need to structure a contract that the other team can't or won't match. In looking at our salary cap situation... how exactly do we plan on accomplishing that? We could backload it, but then so can any other team, and we don't have the cap space to frontload it, which is what most teams attempt to do in these deals.

In all honesty, I'd bet we'd be more inclined to have one or our RFAs be snagged by another team than for us to sign one from somebody else. 

No no no. You went out on a limb and assumed that I'm calling for a superstar. I'm not expecting fireworks. I'm hoping for a few 3 mil per year guys that get overlooked for one reason or another and Ozzie sniffs them out.

cap wise, we are scheduled to have about 30 mil in cap space next year and if let's say D.smith, Pitta, Lewis, and arrington are let go. That number becomes closer to 45mil. And frees up 6 mil to spend this year. Plus, we can move on from guys like webb or monroe if they underperform freeing up more cap because it actually makes sense next year not this year.

If Ozzie and harbs really like someone, we can always offer a nice signing bonus so the cap hit could be like 2 mil this year and then escalate next year. Worrilow ILB is someone that comes to mind.

its a bit too early to get a grasp of where the Ravens are heading because the big clouds over our heads are Flaccos contract, KO, and Tucker. I wish we could keep both Tucker and KO by giving them long term deals with nice signing bonuses so that the cap hit wouldn't really kick in until next year when we have more room to maneuver.

when it comes to FA, I hope Ozzie finds a CB as this class is really nice. Claiborne is someone that comes to mind. He's Unrestricted if I'm not mistaken but would count against the comp pick formula of we want him. (Correct me if I'm wrong) I for one am not expecting any valuable comp picks next year because we are not gonna lose the likes of T.Smith, McPhee, and the guys we usually lose. Heck I'm hoping we keep KO and get no comp picks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rmcjacket23]

19 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

No no no. You went out on a limb and assumed that I'm calling for a superstar. I'm not expecting fireworks. I'm hoping for a few 3 mil per year guys that get overlooked for one reason or another and Ozzie sniffs them out.

cap wise, we are scheduled to have about 30 mil in cap space next year and if let's say D.smith, Pitta, Lewis, and arrington are let go. That number becomes closer to 45mil. And frees up 6 mil to spend this year. Plus, we can move on from guys like webb or monroe if they underperform freeing up more cap because it actually makes sense next year not this year.

If Ozzie and harbs really like someone, we can always offer a nice signing bonus so the cap hit could be like 2 mil this year and then escalate next year. Worrilow ILB is someone that comes to mind.

its a bit too early to get a grasp of where the Ravens are heading because the big clouds over our heads are Flaccos contract, KO, and Tucker. I wish we could keep both Tucker and KO by giving them long term deals with nice signing bonuses so that the cap hit wouldn't really kick in until next year when we have more room to maneuver.

when it comes to FA, I hope Ozzie finds a CB as this class is really nice. Claiborne is someone that comes to mind. He's Unrestricted if I'm not mistaken but would count against the comp pick formula of we want him. (Correct me if I'm wrong) I for one am not expecting any valuable comp picks next year because we are not gonna lose the likes of T.Smith, McPhee, and the guys we usually lose. Heck I'm hoping we keep KO and get no comp picks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Not very wise to start looking at the 2017 salary cap, particularly when you consider that there's only 32 players under contract for 2017 at this point, meaning just to fill the top 51 we need to add basically 19 players. That means if you signed 20 players at $2M a year, you are over the salary cap heading into 2017. I would almost guarantee that by the time the 2016 season ends, the $30M+ in current cap space for 2017 will be down probably below $10M.

2. Making small cap hits early in a contract just so you can "squeeze them in" generally yields more dead money in the future when you want to cut them, and its those kinds of contracts that generally cause future financial salary cap issues, which is something we really want to start avoiding.

[Halshayeji]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Not very wise to start looking at the 2017 salary cap, particularly when you consider that there's only 32 players under contract for 2017 at this point, meaning just to fill the top 51 we need to add basically 19 players. That means if you signed 20 players at $2M a year, you are over the salary cap heading into 2017. I would almost guarantee that by the time the 2016 season ends, the $30M+ in current cap space for 2017 will be down probably below $10M.

2. Making small cap hits early in a contract just so you can "squeeze them in" generally yields more dead money in the future when you want to cut them, and its those kinds of contracts that generally cause future financial salary cap issues, which is something we really want to start avoiding.

maybe your exaggerating a bit with the 20 players 2 mil a piece because we bith know at least 10 of those are gonna be rookies from this year and next with like 600k salaries. I totally feel ya when you say it's not too wise to look into next year's cap coz that's what got us here in the first place lol

But it's KO. He's a stud! And it's Tucker my fav kicker of all time. I think they are worth it.

flacco won't count as 31 mil against the cap next year. No way that happens. And if somehow we are only 10 mil under the cap then Ozzie should get fired or someone.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

maybe your exaggerating a bit with the 20 players 2 mil a piece because we bith know at least 10 of those are gonna be rookies from this year and next with like 600k salaries. I totally feel ya when you say it's not too wise to look into next year's cap coz that's what got us here in the first place lol

But it's KO. He's a stud! And it's Tucker my fav kicker of all time. I think they are worth it.

flacco won't count as 31 mil against the cap next year. No way that happens. And if somehow we are only 10 mil under the cap then Ozzie should get fired or someone.

True, but it evens itself out. There might be 5-10 guys playing for under $2M a year, but there's probably also going to be 5-10 guys playing for significantly more than that.

I mean realize that resigning Tucker and KO would probably add at least $10M to the 2017 cap by themselves, and that's excluding guys like Brandon Williams, Rick Wagner, Will Hill, etc. who are all not under contract in 2017. Some of those guys may get paid by us, and it will certainly be more than $2M a year.

The 2017 salary cap could be better for us than 2016, but there's no scenario possible where I see we have $30M-$40M in cap space. If that happened, its because we were horrible again in 2016, fired all the coaches and maybe the GM and cut half the roster, and therefore it really doesn't matter how much space we have because we won't be very good.

Guys get cut, guys get signed, guys get extensions. Happens every year. Not to mention the fact that just about every contract on the roster will cost us more in 2017 than 2016.

[bigcatfrank1]

  On 2/10/2016 at 7:04 PM, bigcatfrank1 said:

That was my mistake, I thought that their contracts were 3 year contracts. Darn shame, because they both would be worth a look. Don't get me wrong, I' not saying there are any shoe ins. In fact i could be pessimistic as some of the responses and say "no way" the Ravens get a WR in FA" there isn't any one available. What I am saying is that Oz and the FO guys know better than anyone what guys are available, and who might come available, to what degree, what the contracts look like, etc. I dont, ( obviously). I am saying that I think the Ravens should consider making a shot at a decent young receiver if one is available in FA or even RFA . make a play. If we don't get them, we don't get them. But if we happen to work a deal, we then have to cut the cap in other areas. I think that it is risky to go with Steve Sr. and Perriman knowing what happened last year, plus Sr. isn't going to hang around past next year most probably. Don't go Draft, and the short 1 mil deals dont seem to be working out either so why keep doing it?

Short answer... because we have to. The reason we have to is that we don't have the cap space to spend on probably even a mid-tier WR. A guy who costs even $3-4M a year is realistically probably going to be out of our price range, given our current cap situation. Unless Joe agrees to a contract extension prior to FA opening, which may or may not happen, there's a good chance we won't be signing anybody, regardless of position, in that price range.

So the types of players you get on short term, cheap deals aren't your typical better receivers on the open market, particularly in a market as weak as this one is this year. If we were to sign a WR in FA, I would bet a ton that its either an aging veteran on the "decline", but who's price tag is reasonable and output could be as well (similar to a Steve Smith-type signing), or a younger WR who is unproven and possibly even injury prone (a Chris Givens type player).

The draft is the most likely option, considering WR is more of a long-term problem than a short-term one anyway. Signing a cheap UFA is still likely, though signing an RFA is probably out of the question. RFAs are attached to draft pick compensation, so signing a guy like that not only requires money but draft picks as well. Not really our style, nor is it really any teams style. You don't see too many teams signing RFAs from other teams.

So let me get this in perspective, If I were to get Joe to re-work his contract before FA. freeing up more than 6 mil in cap space (hopefully more) and I sit down with Oz and we agree to cut Arrington sparing another 2.1 mil. You wouldn't mind if we were to score a mid-high range RFA- WR for 6-8 mil and a 3 or 4 rd draft pick for 2017. Now I know that still means we will need to do some trimming and work on the cap....things are tight but I say....get a LT in the Draft and the Offense is set to go for 2016 and into 2017. Now focus the rest on the Defense -

[rmcjacket23]

26 minutes ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

So let me get this in perspective, If I were to get Joe to re-work his contract before FA. freeing up more than 6 mil in cap space (hopefully more) and I sit down with Oz and we agree to cut Arrington sparing another 2.1 mil. You wouldn't mind if we were to score a mid-high range RFA- WR for 6-8 mil and a 3 or 4 rd draft pick for 2017. Now I know that still means we will need to do some trimming and work on the cap....things are tight but I say....get a LT in the Draft and the Offense is set to go for 2016 and into 2017. Now focus the rest on the Defense -

No, I'd rather spend the money on extensions to our own guys, like a Tucker, KO, Will Hill, Brandon Williams or Rick Wagner.

As it were...could you give me the names of even 1 or 2 quality RFA WRs in the entire league, because I'm not even aware of any. 

A few names would be nice...

As an aside, I think your understanding of the RFA system simply isn't great. I'm not sure if there's ever been an RFA who got a $6-8M a year deal from anybody, and I would think if there was a player he would have a first or second round tender attached to them, meaning that's the pick you give up. 

I can't see a late round tendered RFA in the entire league being worth $6M a year, and probably not even worth half of it.

Consider that a Kamar Aiken level player is probably near the top of the RFA WR market and I think we'd certainly let him go for a second rounder.

Edited February 11, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[bigcatfrank1]

  33 minutes ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

So let me get this in perspective, If I were to get Joe to re-work his contract before FA. freeing up more than 6 mil in cap space (hopefully more) and I sit down with Oz and we agree to cut Arrington sparing another 2.1 mil. You wouldn't mind if we were to score a mid-high range RFA- WR for 6-8 mil and a 3 or 4 rd draft pick for 2017. Now I know that still means we will need to do some trimming and work on the cap....things are tight but I say....get a LT in the Draft and the Offense is set to go for 2016 and into 2017. Now focus the rest on the Defense -

No, I'd rather spend the money on extensions to our own guys, like a Tucker, KO, Will Hill, Brandon Williams or Rick Wagner.

As it were...could you give me the names of even 1 or 2 quality RFA WRs in the entire league, because I'm not even aware of any. 

A few names would be nice...

Ok... I give up. That isnt what i said. I understand there are other things to work out, But I feel that the WR situation is key to this teams situation not only this coming year but going forward. Im not giving up anyone big (but KO is a big number- I would drop the WR idea for KO) Tucker will be franchised, Hill, Williams, Wagner should work out anyway. I will give you some examples. I do not have all of the RFA-FA listings I am sure there are some options out there here are the ones I think are available- Travis Benjiman (4mil range), Tavon Austin,(5 mil range) * Rueben Randle ( 6-8mil) Realeased- Riley Cooper ($ ?) Jarius Wright (? not sure). Rueben Randle would be a great move.

[rmcjacket23]

21 minutes ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

Ok... I give up. That isnt what i said. I understand there are other things to work out, But I feel that the WR situation is key to this teams situation not only this coming year but going forward. Im not giving up anyone big (but KO is a big number- I would drop the WR idea for KO) Tucker will be franchised, Hill, Williams, Wagner should work out anyway. I will give you some examples. I do not have all of the RFA-FA listings I am sure there are some options out there here are the ones I think are available- Travis Benjiman (4mil range), Tavon Austin,(5 mil range) * Rueben Randle ( 6-8mil) Realeased- Riley Cooper ($ ?) Jarius Wright (? not sure). Rueben Randle would be a great move.

1. Randle and Benjamin are UFAs, not RFAs, and we have three better receivers on the roster I think. I also think a mid round WR from the draft could easily outperform both.

2. Austin isn't a FA at all so no point in discussing him, and the other guys just aren't good receivers.

3. The FO doesn't have the luxury of saying "o it will work itself out anyway". They have to plan how to keep the guys they want over a 2-3 year plan, not just 1 year like fans do.

Of all the players I listed who I'd like to see get extensions, I'd rather have every single one of those guys over the guys you listed, and I have more faith in Aiken and our current WR core than any of the guys you listed.

[bigcatfrank1]

  22 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

Ok... I give up. That isnt what i said. I understand there are other things to work out, But I feel that the WR situation is key to this teams situation not only this coming year but going forward. Im not giving up anyone big (but KO is a big number- I would drop the WR idea for KO) Tucker will be franchised, Hill, Williams, Wagner should work out anyway. I will give you some examples. I do not have all of the RFA-FA listings I am sure there are some options out there here are the ones I think are available- Travis Benjiman (4mil range), Tavon Austin,(5 mil range) * Rueben Randle ( 6-8mil) Realeased- Riley Cooper ($ ?) Jarius Wright (? not sure). Rueben Randle would be a great move.

1. Randle and Benjamin are UFAs, not RFAs, and we have three better receivers on the roster I think. I also think a mid round WR from the draft could easily outperform both.

2. Austin isn't a FA at all so no point in discussing him, and the other guys just aren't good receivers.

3. The FO doesn't have the luxury of saying "o it will work itself out anyway". They have to plan how to keep the guys they want over a 2-3 year plan, not just 1 year like fans do.

Of all the players I listed who I'd like to see get extensions, I'd rather have every single one of those guys over the guys you listed, and I have more faith in Aiken and our current WR core than any of the guys you listed.

didnt work out last year! good luck

[rmcjacket23]

23 minutes ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

didnt work out last year! good luck

Cool, so I guess it's time to panic and do everything the opposite right?

Yeah, that'll work.

SMH.

[bigcatfrank1]

  On 2/12/2016 at 8:34 PM, bigcatfrank1 said:

didnt work out last year! good luck

Cool, so I guess it's time to panic and do everything the opposite right?

Yeah, that'll work.

SMH.

You have the answers...I said try one thing. Get one good strong receiver a 1-2 with some experience. pay a decent price for a good player. Stop trying to buy 3. We can go ahead with your other moves....no panic. I've said that all along, read my posts. We are going to dump players that we wasted money on, that is a fact. Even Oz agrees that we need a receiver. Rueben Randle...do it OZ.

[rmcjacket23]

8 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

You have the answers...I said try one thing. Get one good strong receiver a 1-2 with some experience. pay a decent price for a good player. Stop trying to buy 3. We can go ahead with your other moves....no panic. I've said that all along, read my posts. We are going to dump players that we wasted money on, that is a fact. Even Oz agrees that we need a receiver. Rueben Randle...do it OZ.

But, again, dumping players we "wasted money on" isn't going to yield us the kind of cap space to sign said players, so that doesn't solve anything.

I don't want Randle because I don't think he's any good and he has not shown me a reason to think he's good in the last four years. I'm not even sure what skill set he brings to the table. There's really not much to like there.

At best, he competes with Aiken for #3 role. At worst, he's an overpaid 4th or 5th receiver. I see at least 3 receivers on our roster better than him right now from what I've seen.