[News] Late For Work 2/5: Ravens' Potential Salary-Cap Casualties

[BR News]

Which ex-Ravens do you want back? Recent QB buzz is good news for Ravens. Brown still upset with Bengals.

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[Drew P]

Damn, Kendrick Lewis $933 Million cap savings if he is cut wouldn't that be nice.

[jravens13]

The Pitta, Monroe, and Webby contracts are killing us. So we have to hang on to a mediocre, injury prone LT because we can't cut him? Or a guy who hasn't suited up in 2 years because he won't retire? Or a guy who is clearly not a top 64 CB yet he is getting paid like a top 10 CB because we continue to back load contracts and we can't get out of them???

[bioLarzen]

"Recent QB Buzz Is Good News For Ravens"

... except that there is no QB buzz, except in the minds of some of the "draft expert" who,. for some reason think that the Cowboys will tkae a QB at #4. Forget that nothing really points in that direction, and also that they need a backup to Romo who may need to step up and perform ASAP, so they're much sooner gonna reach out for Manziel or RGIII...

[bioLarzen]

Damn, Kendrick Lewis $933 Million cap savings if he is cut wouldn't that be nice.

That would be a definite jackpot :D

[rmcjacket23]

20 minutes ago, jravens13 said:

The Pitta, Monroe, and Webby contracts are killing us. So we have to hang on to a mediocre, injury prone LT because we can't cut him? Or a guy who hasn't suited up in 2 years because he won't retire? Or a guy who is clearly not a top 64 CB yet he is getting paid like a top 10 CB because we continue to back load contracts and we can't get out of them???

Those contracts really weren't backloaded at all though, especially Monroe's and Pitta.

Most long-term deals are hard to get out of in the first three years due to the guaranteed money and signing bonuses attached to them, which is the case here.

Plus, in Monroe and really Webb's case, there's also a lack of realistic, replaceable options available.

[jravens13]

  1 hour ago, jravens13 said:

The Pitta, Monroe, and Webby contracts are killing us. So we have to hang on to a mediocre, injury prone LT because we can't cut him? Or a guy who hasn't suited up in 2 years because he won't retire? Or a guy who is clearly not a top 64 CB yet he is getting paid like a top 10 CB because we continue to back load contracts and we can't get out of them???

Those contracts really weren't backloaded at all though, especially Monroe's and Pitta.

Most long-term deals are hard to get out of in the first three years due to the guaranteed money and signing bonuses attached to them, which is the case here.

Plus, in Monroe and really Webb's case, there's also a lack of realistic, replaceable options available.

Pitta's base YR1: $1M, YR2: $4M, YR3: $5M, YR4: $5.5M YR5: $5.5M (Looks back loaded)

Monroe's Base: YR1: $1M, YR2: $5.5M, YR3: $6.5M YR4: $6.75M YR5: $6.75M (looks back loaded)

Webby signed his original deal in 2012, but took a pay cut and they guaranteed more money for him in the out years. He is now a Safety so we need a corner. Osemele can play LT. But we clearly never worked him out there until had already traded and signed Monroe. Our mismanagement of funds has been almost as bad as our recent 1st Round draft history. I'm just waiting for things to go right for a change because it has been a while since we handled Free Agency and the Draft properly.

[fusuymada]

Does anyone else think it is ironic that on a page where we list all those people we overpaid with contracts that we now have to eat dead money on, it is then followed with a section where we list all those people we didn't think were worth it, but that they are playing in the super bowl. hmmmmm. interesting. We clearly have a talent evaluation issue here. When I look at what we paid some of these guys we "liked" and then we got the play out of them we did, someone should be in the unemployment line (both players and front office). Then to look at some of these individuals who were labeled as "failures" or "not worth it" go on to the super bowl and in the case of people like Darian Stewart, is ranked the 10th best safety in the league, I have to scratch my head. I saw him last year, he sucked, why is he so good this year. That is a coaching thing. We have some very deep institutional problems here because it is not the players as such who are failing the fans. It is on the coaching staff and in the front office. No one loves Ozzie more than me, and no one thinks Harbs is a better coach than me, but loyalty is getting us to a 5-11 record and at some point, if I'm Bisciotti, I have to take a step back and say, what have you done for me lately. I can't see blowing up the whole ship, but there are sections that clearly need some cleaning up. First change I would make is to have the coaches try to fit their systems to the players we have instead of our classic way of doing things which is "my way or the highway."

[757RavensFan]

14 minutes ago, fusuymada said:

Does anyone else think it is ironic that on a page where we list all those people we overpaid with contracts that we now have to eat dead money on, it is then followed with a section where we list all those people we didn't think were worth it, but that they are playing in the super bowl. hmmmmm. interesting. We clearly have a talent evaluation issue here. When I look at what we paid some of these guys we "liked" and then we got the play out of them we did, someone should be in the unemployment line (both players and front office). Then to look at some of these individuals who were labeled as "failures" or "not worth it" go on to the super bowl and in the case of people like Darian Stewart, is ranked the 10th best safety in the league, I have to scratch my head. I saw him last year, he sucked, why is he so good this year. That is a coaching thing. We have some very deep institutional problems here because it is not the players as such who are failing the fans. It is on the coaching staff and in the front office. No one loves Ozzie more than me, and no one thinks Harbs is a better coach than me, but loyalty is getting us to a 5-11 record and at some point, if I'm Bisciotti, I have to take a step back and say, what have you done for me lately. I can't see blowing up the whole ship, but there are sections that clearly need some cleaning up. First change I would make is to have the coaches try to fit their systems to the players we have instead of our classic way of doing things which is "my way or the highway."

No, some players just fit better in a different system or a new environment.  Look how long Justin Forsett bounced around the league before having a career year w/ the Ravens in 2014.  Are our RB coaches and OC better than the other teams he played for? Probably not, but he fit within our system.  Same with Kamar Aiken he couldn't get off the practice squad of other teams, but he was 60 yards shy of 1000 yds w/ us this past season. There's a player on every team who's playing better than he was on previous teams. 

[hn68wb4]

I can't see Arrington or Webb being casualties, one is switching to a position of need and the other provides depth at a position that's losing a starter. Monroe won't go anywhere, he's better than any other option we've got at LT, even if we draft someone early he'll stay on board for at least next year. Forsett unfortunately is expendable if need be, I'd love to keep him around but we have 3 young guys that are flashing potential in Buck, West, and Taliaferro. Canty should retire but he played fine this season and his cap number isn't big at all, if he's being but it'll be because he gets beat out, not to save cap. Lewis is iffy, maybe Webb moving to FS makes him expendable. I can see Pitta being a post June 1st cut, $5M is savings is huge and we have options at TE. Everyone else falls under the same umbrella as Canty, their saving wouldn't make them really worth cutting before camp.

[thieverycorporation]

40 minutes ago, fusuymada said:

Does anyone else think it is ironic that on a page where we list all those people we overpaid with contracts that we now have to eat dead money on, it is then followed with a section where we list all those people we didn't think were worth it, but that they are playing in the super bowl. hmmmmm. interesting. We clearly have a talent evaluation issue here. When I look at what we paid some of these guys we "liked" and then we got the play out of them we did, someone should be in the unemployment line (both players and front office). Then to look at some of these individuals who were labeled as "failures" or "not worth it" go on to the super bowl and in the case of people like Darian Stewart, is ranked the 10th best safety in the league, I have to scratch my head. I saw him last year, he sucked, why is he so good this year. That is a coaching thing. We have some very deep institutional problems here because it is not the players as such who are failing the fans. It is on the coaching staff and in the front office. No one loves Ozzie more than me, and no one thinks Harbs is a better coach than me, but loyalty is getting us to a 5-11 record and at some point, if I'm Bisciotti, I have to take a step back and say, what have you done for me lately. I can't see blowing up the whole ship, but there are sections that clearly need some cleaning up. First change I would make is to have the coaches try to fit their systems to the players we have instead of our classic way of doing things which is "my way or the highway."

To your point. I've been saying the same things for a couple of years. Yet the homers continue to find more excuses then Ozzie and Steve themselves. It's showing that Kubiack had success with basically the same line up and we saw marked improvements in the overall team. Over valuing a player via loyalty or bad contracts has become a staple of this franchise and has done and will continue to if they don't revamp the formula. Classic example was Pitta. I don't care about his past contributions as much as others may have. He was a seriously injured player with a vital part of his body being in question. They went on the limb and the branch broke. Wrong time for right player right price. Obvious grading of player issues has reared its head far to often. Never having real money to maneuver has been the a consistent problem for quite some time. The scouting dept and FO have an obvious disconnect. I presume the loss of some scouts and a key scout has hastened the bad trend in the draft but they need to fix it quick. Injuries are not an excuse to have the aforementioned happening. I'm all for Ozzie but he needs to evolve beyond the norm and re evaluate there methods/protocol etc. Draft positions have been overcome by the elite teams and the post season players have mostly been the same. Small school is all fine and dandy but there needs to an emphasis in positions of need with the BPA available filling it. Waitng until the end of the seventh round while knowing you didn't have much going forward was asinine/crazy/stupid/ridiculous unwarranted. Haubaugh and his coaches need to coach period. And any coaches squad that fails needs to be relieved of his/her duties. Regression from one year from previous shows there is a direct correlation between coaching and there players.

[rmcjacket23]

59 minutes ago, jravens13 said:

Pitta's base YR1: $1M, YR2: $4M, YR3: $5M, YR4: $5.5M YR5: $5.5M (Looks back loaded)

Monroe's Base: YR1: $1M, YR2: $5.5M, YR3: $6.5M YR4: $6.75M YR5: $6.75M (looks back loaded)

Webby signed his original deal in 2012, but took a pay cut and they guaranteed more money for him in the out years. He is now a Safety so we need a corner. Osemele can play LT. But we clearly never worked him out there until had already traded and signed Monroe. Our mismanagement of funds has been almost as bad as our recent 1st Round draft history. I'm just waiting for things to go right for a change because it has been a while since we handled Free Agency and the Draft properly.

LOL, nice try...

1. For whatever reason, you're not factoring in bonus money, which is why their base salaries are $1M in year 1.

2. You're also not referencing cap hits, which is the most important thing here. Lets look at the cap hits:

Pitta: $3.2M, $6.2M, $7.2M, $7.7M, $7.7M... last three years are largely flat, and only a $1.5M increase between year 2 and year 5. 

Monroe: $3.2M, $7.7M, $8.7M, $8.95M, $8.95M... again, last three years are largely flat, and only a $1.25M increase between year 2 and year 5.

For the most part, these are incredibly standard deals used by all 32 NFL teams.

As for the cash perspective you were trying point out with the base salaries, you are excluding the year 1 bonuses they receive, which is the main driver here. When you include those, since they are the actual CASH the player is receiving, it looks more like a flat deal or even a front loaded deal. For example...

Monroe's deal is 5 years, $37.5M. He received $12M in year 1 ($1M salary, $11M signing bonus), $5.5M in year 2, and $6.5M in year 3, meaning he gets $24M in the first three years, which is 64% of his contract value. 

Pitta's deal is 5 years, $32M. He received $12M in year 1, $4M in year 2, and $5M in year 3, meaning he gets $21M in the first three years, which is roughly 66% of his contract value.

This notion that these are "back loaded" contracts is a myth. As I said earlier, anytime you sign somebody to a long term extension of 4-5 years or longer, assuming the guaranteed money is significant (usually 40-50% or more) of the contract value, they're incredibly tough to get rid of in the first three years. Its why any NFL player or agent will tell you that the amount you get in the first three years is all that matters, because after that, the guaranteed money is gone and the team can dump you for significant cap savings usually if they want to.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, fusuymada said:

Does anyone else think it is ironic that on a page where we list all those people we overpaid with contracts that we now have to eat dead money on, it is then followed with a section where we list all those people we didn't think were worth it, but that they are playing in the super bowl. hmmmmm. interesting. We clearly have a talent evaluation issue here. When I look at what we paid some of these guys we "liked" and then we got the play out of them we did, someone should be in the unemployment line (both players and front office). Then to look at some of these individuals who were labeled as "failures" or "not worth it" go on to the super bowl and in the case of people like Darian Stewart, is ranked the 10th best safety in the league, I have to scratch my head. I saw him last year, he sucked, why is he so good this year. That is a coaching thing. We have some very deep institutional problems here because it is not the players as such who are failing the fans. It is on the coaching staff and in the front office. No one loves Ozzie more than me, and no one thinks Harbs is a better coach than me, but loyalty is getting us to a 5-11 record and at some point, if I'm Bisciotti, I have to take a step back and say, what have you done for me lately. I can't see blowing up the whole ship, but there are sections that clearly need some cleaning up. First change I would make is to have the coaches try to fit their systems to the players we have instead of our classic way of doing things which is "my way or the highway."

Not really the best comparison though, considering you're basically implying that a player is automatically good because his TEAM is playing in the Superbowl.

There are a LOT of players that will be playing Sunday's game who couldn't start for this team realistically.

[757RavensFan]

2 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

"Recent QB Buzz Is Good News For Ravens"

... except that there is no QB buzz, except in the minds of some of the "draft expert" who,. for some reason think that the Cowboys will tkae a QB at #4. Forget that nothing really points in that direction, and also that they need a backup to Romo who may need to step up and perform ASAP, so they're much sooner gonna reach out for Manziel or RGIII...

Considering the fact that his agent just dropped him and his father made a public statement "that he'll be dead by 24 if he doesn't get help" I think Manziel is off the table for any NFL team.  But if there was a team that would give the kid a shot, it would be Jerruh!  

[The Greek]

i can see daryl smith and canty being released. webb will have to take a pay reduction being he is no longer a cb. pittas and monroes contracts are killers for us especially the dead money they would create. would like to see what arrington can do with leslie frazier coaching him but he may get the boot as well.

[steelcityraven]

22 draft picks form over the past three years who are still with the team. If they all continue to take the next step and we get some people back healthy we seem to be building a very strong nucleus. G's : Urschel and Jensen - T: RWagner - TE's: Gilmore, Maxx and Boyle- WR's: Perrman, Camp and Waller- RB's: Talifero, Buck and Juice- DT's: Timmy and CDavis - DE's: ZSmith, BUrban and KLM- LB's : CJ, ABrown and ZOrr (UFA)- CB's: Tray Walker and S: Elam and Brooks! Who ever we add in this season (and drafting as high as we are) should mean that somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 players of our 53 man roster were home grown and that the youth movement is in full effect. 30 of 53 players will be under a rookie contract which should also bode well for us in a tight salary cap situation! I see the vision but a lot depends on some of these young guys being able to take the next step!

[billiejean]

i can see daryl smith and canty being released. webb will have to take a pay reduction being he is no longer a cb. pittas and monroes contracts are killers for us especially the dead money they would create. would like to see what arrington can do with leslie frazier coaching him but he may get the boot as well.

lol, leslie frazier is not a miracle worker. arrington simply doesn't have the talent to contribute to this team.

[billiejean]

22 draft picks form over the past three years who are still with the team. If they all continue to take the next step and we get some people back healthy we seem to be building a very strong nucleus. G's : Urschel and Jensen - T: RWagner - TE's: Gilmore, Maxx and Boyle- WR's: Perrman, Camp and Waller- RB's: Talifero, Buck and Juice- DT's: Timmy and CDavis - DE's: ZSmith, BUrban and KLM- LB's : CJ, ABrown and ZOrr (UFA)- CB's: Tray Walker and S: Elam and Brooks! Who ever we add in this season (and drafting as high as we are) should mean that somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 players of our 53 man roster were home grown and that the youth movement is in full effect. 30 of 53 players will be under a rookie contract which should also bode well for us in a tight salary cap situation! I see the vision but a lot depends on some of these young guys being able to take the next step!

I wouldn't consider Zsmith a DE maybe if this was a 4-3 but he is way undersized for that position and didn't play there at all last season. I would hold of in calling Elam, Walker, and Brown contributors. KLM will be on the bubble.

[steelcityraven]

I hope that several teams do go after QB's. I say : 1st ; Jalen Ramesy- CB- FSU (gives us a legit CB opposite Jimmy) 2nd: Noah Spence- OLB- EKU (First round talent but his hx with drugs will leave him available for us in early rd 2.). 3rd: Shawn Oakman-DE-Baylor (at 6'8 -270 Oakman has the frame and athletic ability to grow into a superstar and add to our pass rush). 4th: Malcolm Mitchell - WR- UGA (Mitchell is a first round talent and one of the most gifted WR's in the draft- has hx of injuries or he would be a top ten pick- stealing Mitchell in round 4 will be well worth the risk-especially since we have another 4th round pick from the broncos for gino) 4th (from broncos) Maurice Cannaday- CB- UVA (one of the most technically sound CBs in the draft. He can come in and contribute at the nickel CB now) . 5th (comp pick) Travis Feeney- OLB - WASH (this kid is a steal in the 5th- He is a freak with size and speed and athleticism. One of the best pure pass rushers in the draft and can cover well. He has a hx of should injuries but played a full sr. season with no issues - otherwise he would be a 1st round talent- Feeney is a special player and like Malcolm Mitchell could be a legit late round steal) Round 6 : Kolby Listenbee- WR- TCU (fastest player in the draft and can also return kicks much like TLockett his former teammate now in Seattle) Round 6 (comp pick) Tyvis Powell-S- Ohio State (big frame and will hit you but needs a lot of technique work- perfect project for Leslie Frazier and a spot that we wouldn't mind having some help at once we let go of KLewis). 7. Taylor Fallin-T-Memphis (6'7"-345 the kid is a giant and has decent athleticism for a big big man. Needs a lot of technique work but has a great frame to grow into and is more athletic the James Hurst the UDFA who has started several games for us- Plus Fallin plays with a little more nastiness and physicality the Hurst does- and with the right coaching could develop into a legit T in this league).

[steelcityraven]

I can't see Arrington or Webb being casualties, one is switching to a position of need and the other provides depth at a position that's losing a starter. Monroe won't go anywhere, he's better than any other option we've got at LT, even if we draft someone early he'll stay on board for at least next year. Forsett unfortunately is expendable if need be, I'd love to keep him around but we have 3 young guys that are flashing potential in Buck, West, and Taliaferro. Canty should retire but he played fine this season and his cap number isn't big at all, if he's being but it'll be because he gets beat out, not to save cap. Lewis is iffy, maybe Webb moving to FS makes him expendable. I can see Pitta being a post June 1st cut, $5M is savings is huge and we have options at TE. Everyone else falls under the same umbrella as Canty, their saving wouldn't make them really worth cutting before camp.

hn68wb4... I think Arrington is gone... he saw less and less playing time as we needed him more and more. I think the writing is on the wall for Arrington plus it don't hurt us $$$$ to let him go. I think Webby has been willing to take pay cuts and has been a team player plus he played well at S... I think he stays. Monroe (SMH) I think we almost have to keep him... it will cost us too much to let him go! We will hold onto him for another year and hope for the best. I don't see Forsett going anywhere... Canty is gone... we simply do not need him with Urban, KLM and others out playing him... and we would clear 2.15million in cap room to let him go... Kendick Lewis is gone. He don't give us a lot of space (1million) but he has fallen so far down the depth chart and it is clear that we just do not trust him. I would be shocked to see KLewis back. Pitta will be released post june 1... that is big... but the biggest will be letting go of DSmith. Smith played great for us but his regression is obvious. He is losing that step and losing the battle to father time. He will not get that back and we know that (WIth ZOrr and ABrown waiting in the wings... and letting go of DSmith meaning $2.6 million in cap space.) I just do not see us bringing him back... and that hurts bc he has played so well for us..... Arrington, Pitta, Canty, Klewis are expected to start and all have fallen far enough down the depth chart that letting them go is the wisest financial move we can do. DSmith will clear 2.6 + million and we have to believe we can either draft a replacement or bring in a FA replacement that is a better investment at this stage of his career. The opposite is true with Forsett and Monroe. For what we are paying Forsett... he seems to be a bargin around the NFL and Monroe would simply cost too much to let him go so- in his case the best financial decision with him is to keep him and hope for the best. (SMH)

[steelcityraven]

D Stewart one of the top S in the NFL this season???? HMMMM wonder why he couldn't cut it here. JIhedigbo had a great season in Detroit...hmmm wonder why he couldn't cut it here????? K Lewis played at a pro bowl level last year... hmmm wonder why he couldn't cut it here. KArrington the most sought after CB in this seasons FA class (not named Reevis) hmmm wonder why he couldn't cut it here??? Can anyone tell me why not a single DB can find success in Dean Pees system??? it is insane... but we get more of Pees excuses! SMH

[raven4evr]

It has been woefully obvious (at least to fans) some Ravens coaches need to be replaced... especially on defense. Hopefully the new additions will make a difference. I personally think we need a new DC, but the Ravens loyalty and sense of continuity has removed that option. Look around the league and notice the number of ex-Ravens coaches now on other teams. That is a tribute to the Ravens, but has also left us with what we had.

[FloridalovesRavens]

  5 hours ago, fusuymada said:

Does anyone else think it is ironic that on a page where we list all those people we overpaid with contracts that we now have to eat dead money on, it is then followed with a section where we list all those people we didn't think were worth it, but that they are playing in the super bowl. hmmmmm. interesting. We clearly have a talent evaluation issue here. When I look at what we paid some of these guys we "liked" and then we got the play out of them we did, someone should be in the unemployment line (both players and front office). Then to look at some of these individuals who were labeled as "failures" or "not worth it" go on to the super bowl and in the case of people like Darian Stewart, is ranked the 10th best safety in the league, I have to scratch my head. I saw him last year, he sucked, why is he so good this year. That is a coaching thing. We have some very deep institutional problems here because it is not the players as such who are failing the fans. It is on the coaching staff and in the front office. No one loves Ozzie more than me, and no one thinks Harbs is a better coach than me, but loyalty is getting us to a 5-11 record and at some point, if I'm Bisciotti, I have to take a step back and say, what have you done for me lately. I can't see blowing up the whole ship, but there are sections that clearly need some cleaning up. First change I would make is to have the coaches try to fit their systems to the players we have instead of our classic way of doing things which is "my way or the highway."

No, some players just fit better in a different system or a new environment.  Look how long Justin Forsett bounced around the league before having a career year w/ the Ravens in 2014.  Are our RB coaches and OC better than the other teams he played for? Probably not, but he fit within our system.  Same with Kamar Aiken he couldn't get off the practice squad of other teams, but he was 60 yards shy of 1000 yds w/ us this past season. There's a player on every team who's playing better than he was on previous teams. 

Amen to that.

[steelcityraven]

  6 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

  6 hours ago, fusuymada said:

Does anyone else think it is ironic that on a page where we list all those people we overpaid with contracts that we now have to eat dead money on, it is then followed with a section where we list all those people we didn't think were worth it, but that they are playing in the super bowl. hmmmmm. interesting. We clearly have a talent evaluation issue here. When I look at what we paid some of these guys we "liked" and then we got the play out of them we did, someone should be in the unemployment line (both players and front office). Then to look at some of these individuals who were labeled as "failures" or "not worth it" go on to the super bowl and in the case of people like Darian Stewart, is ranked the 10th best safety in the league, I have to scratch my head. I saw him last year, he sucked, why is he so good this year. That is a coaching thing. We have some very deep institutional problems here because it is not the players as such who are failing the fans. It is on the coaching staff and in the front office. No one loves Ozzie more than me, and no one thinks Harbs is a better coach than me, but loyalty is getting us to a 5-11 record and at some point, if I'm Bisciotti, I have to take a step back and say, what have you done for me lately. I can't see blowing up the whole ship, but there are sections that clearly need some cleaning up. First change I would make is to have the coaches try to fit their systems to the players we have instead of our classic way of doing things which is "my way or the highway."

No, some players just fit better in a different system or a new environment.  Look how long Justin Forsett bounced around the league before having a career year w/ the Ravens in 2014.  Are our RB coaches and OC better than the other teams he played for? Probably not, but he fit within our system.  Same with Kamar Aiken he couldn't get off the practice squad of other teams, but he was 60 yards shy of 1000 yds w/ us this past season. There's a player on every team who's playing better than he was on previous teams. 

Amen to that.

FloridalovesRavens.... If that is true then why do we keep recruiting (drafting) players who are not a good fit for Pees system??? and why do we keep seeking FAs who are not a good fit for his system???? Is it bc he don't know what he is looking for as a coach? and finally if that is true... then why is it that not one DB has found success under Pees? Not one. I get that Forsett bounced around but we needed a cut back runner who can flourish in a zone blocking scheme... and we went out and found that in Forsett. We knew what we were looking for there and found someone who found success in our scheme. The only reason Kamar had a breakout year is bc the other 3 or 4 WRs in front of him went down and out of necessity we had to force feed him a little. Not one DB has found success under Pees... It is was all about finding the right player for his system... then why has he not done that in 4 years? CMon... we need to stop making excuses for this guy and call a duck a duck! Zero success is not bad luck... it is bad coaching! (the bad luck is that he is our coach)!

[Maryland]

The Boller pick may not be that bad from a talent standpoint compared to the others listed in that tweeted article, but the pick was kind of it worse than the others simply because we wasted 5 years on him, whereas the Browns knew almost immediately that Manziel was a bust and were able to move on within a couple years. Same with the Bengals' pick.

[balfan23]

5 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

D Stewart one of the top S in the NFL this season???? HMMMM wonder why he couldn't cut it here. JIhedigbo had a great season in Detroit...hmmm wonder why he couldn't cut it here????? K Lewis played at a pro bowl level last year... hmmm wonder why he couldn't cut it here. KArrington the most sought after CB in this seasons FA class (not named Reevis) hmmm wonder why he couldn't cut it here??? Can anyone tell me why not a single DB can find success in Dean Pees system??? it is insane... but we get more of Pees excuses! SMH

I was among the fans who was hoping to see us move on from Pees ... I wasn't clamoring for his head, but I would say I hoped that we would have been able to find an upgrade. We've demoted our secondary coach ... lets see if the problem was coaching technique or issues with scheme not putting guys in a place to succeed. No matter how you slice it, the defense needs to perform, or Pees will not see 2017. 

It appears that the 2nd half of the season stats saved his job, as that is what Harbaugh constantly cited as the reason they would not be making a move. I'm just not so sure I'm buying it. IMO the Steelers game was the only one that the performance was truly impressive. 

There is just no way the talent level on this team matches performance. No, we don't have a bunch of pro bowlers in the secondary, but I can't believe they are as bad as they have looked.  

[balfan23]

Agree with the article on who they say will be casualties. I think Forsett is retained and that we have no choice but to hope Monroe can stay healthy. Webb is a real tough choice. Honestly, I hope they can move him to safety, get him to take another pay cut and have him be rejuvenated by having a fresh approach with a new position. 

All the others listed I expect to be gone. I also expect the pain of Pitta's dead money to be spread across years and to take advantage of his post-June 1 cut to use to sign rookies (which will be a much more expensive endeavor than usual, given where we are picking) and to use for pick ups off of late cuts.

[jravens13]

D Stewart one of the top S in the NFL this season???? HMMMM wonder why he couldn't cut it here. JIhedigbo had a great season in Detroit...hmmm wonder why he couldn't cut it here????? K Lewis played at a pro bowl level last year... hmmm wonder why he couldn't cut it here. KArrington the most sought after CB in this seasons FA class (not named Reevis) hmmm wonder why he couldn't cut it here??? Can anyone tell me why not a single DB can find success in Dean Pees system??? it is insane... but we get more of Pees excuses! SMH

Stewart and Ihedigbo were both great players for us in Baltimore. They were just older vets who weren't draft picks. The coaching staff, along with Ozzie decided that they were the scapegoats for the poor corner play, or thought that our young guys Elam and Brooks could replace them for less money. Will Hill belongs on this team, but I didn't see why Kendrick Lewis had all that hype watching him play in purple this year. I would have been fine rolling with Stewart and Hill.

[The Greek]

  4 hours ago, FloridalovesRavens said:

  9 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

  9 hours ago, fusuymada said:

Does anyone else think it is ironic that on a page where we list all those people we overpaid with contracts that we now have to eat dead money on, it is then followed with a section where we list all those people we didn't think were worth it, but that they are playing in the super bowl. hmmmmm. interesting. We clearly have a talent evaluation issue here. When I look at what we paid some of these guys we "liked" and then we got the play out of them we did, someone should be in the unemployment line (both players and front office). Then to look at some of these individuals who were labeled as "failures" or "not worth it" go on to the super bowl and in the case of people like Darian Stewart, is ranked the 10th best safety in the league, I have to scratch my head. I saw him last year, he sucked, why is he so good this year. That is a coaching thing. We have some very deep institutional problems here because it is not the players as such who are failing the fans. It is on the coaching staff and in the front office. No one loves Ozzie more than me, and no one thinks Harbs is a better coach than me, but loyalty is getting us to a 5-11 record and at some point, if I'm Bisciotti, I have to take a step back and say, what have you done for me lately. I can't see blowing up the whole ship, but there are sections that clearly need some cleaning up. First change I would make is to have the coaches try to fit their systems to the players we have instead of our classic way of doing things which is "my way or the highway."

No, some players just fit better in a different system or a new environment.  Look how long Justin Forsett bounced around the league before having a career year w/ the Ravens in 2014.  Are our RB coaches and OC better than the other teams he played for? Probably not, but he fit within our system.  Same with Kamar Aiken he couldn't get off the practice squad of other teams, but he was 60 yards shy of 1000 yds w/ us this past season. There's a player on every team who's playing better than he was on previous teams. 

Amen to that.

FloridalovesRavens.... If that is true then why do we keep recruiting (drafting) players who are not a good fit for Pees system??? and why do we keep seeking FAs who are not a good fit for his system???? Is it bc he don't know what he is looking for as a coach? and finally if that is true... then why is it that not one DB has found success under Pees? Not one. I get that Forsett bounced around but we needed a cut back runner who can flourish in a zone blocking scheme... and we went out and found that in Forsett. We knew what we were looking for there and found someone who found success in our scheme. The only reason Kamar had a breakout year is bc the other 3 or 4 WRs in front of him went down and out of necessity we had to force feed him a little. Not one DB has found success under Pees... It is was all about finding the right player for his system... then why has he not done that in 4 years? CMon... we need to stop making excuses for this guy and call a duck a duck! Zero success is not bad luck... it is bad coaching! (the bad luck is that he is our coach)!

his old school vanilla bend but dont break defense is out of date and expired. harbs is going to waste another season on this guy until he does what should have been done 3 years ago.

[Halshayeji]

20 hours ago, The Greek said:

i can see daryl smith and canty being released. webb will have to take a pay reduction being he is no longer a cb. pittas and monroes contracts are killers for us especially the dead money they would create. would like to see what arrington can do with leslie frazier coaching him but he may get the boot as well.

Daryl and Canty would free up around 4.5 mil in cap. Add pitta and that's 5 mil in savings for 2016 and around 13mil in 2017.

Its a really good proposition but I fear the loss of D.Smith more than anything.