Why is everyone assuming guard is NOT a need?

[ravenz2752]

Face it. KO is likely to leave. I know Ryan Jensen and John Urchel have played well, but does no one else see depth or competition a necessity? I see it as a bigger need than receiver

[K-Dog]

Everyone?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 hours ago, ravenz2752 said:

Face it. KO is likely to leave. I know Ryan Jensen and John Urchel have played well, but does no one else see depth or competition a necessity? I see it as a bigger need than receiver

I agree a little. 

 

Except I don't think KO is likely to leave. He very well may, but I am hopeful that we resign him and he plays guard in 2016 before switching to tackle in 2017. 

That way were solid along all positions of the line with great depth everywhere and we can draft and groom a guard and tackle who won't even be leaned on for backup duties until maybe 2017... And we can focus our top draft picks on skill positions/playmakers (pass rush, WR, CB)

[Winchester]

Even if KO plays tackle which is where I expect him to play. The ravens are fine at guard. Jensen is a stud!! Big strong athletic and nasty!! Urschel will be a superior center than Zuttah by end of preseason. He is stronger smarter and nasty as well. He turns his opponents off the ball and mauls. The OLine was very dominant the last 2 games against very good defensive lines. The ravens could use some depth if Zuttah is cut which is realistic because he saves $5mil. And Urschel will be the better center as he completes his acclimation. I would like to see ravens trade down and pick up an extra round2 or round3 pick and draft an olineman for depth like Denver Kirkland. Somebody that fits the ravens OLine mold of stronger than average,very nasty with adequate athleticism. The ravens will not let KO walk. He will be the future anchor of the line. He is an all pro caliber guard and will be a top5 left tackle!! If he leaves then the OLine will be a hot mess!! The anchor Yanda is 32 and there will be a huge need at left tackle as well as depth at guard. Ravens have to many pressing needs to go into this draft needing a left tackle and depth at guard. KO is the most overpowering OLine player in the league!!  Monroe is done. He is unmotivated and terrible even when he plays. He is under 300 LBs currently. Many fans are lying to themselves about Monroe being counted on because he is being payed. He is a terrible signing. 

[usmccharles]

26 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Even if KO plays tackle which is where I expect him to play. The ravens are fine at guard. Jensen is a stud!! Big strong athletic and nasty!! Urschel will be a superior center than Zuttah by end of preseason. He is stronger smarter and nasty as well. He turns his opponents off the ball and mauls. The OLine was very dominant the last 2 games against very good defensive lines. The ravens could use some depth if Zuttah is cut which is realistic because he saves $5mil. And Urschel will be the better center as he completes his acclimation. I would like to see ravens trade down and pick up an extra round2 or round3 pick and draft an olineman for depth like Denver Kirkland. Somebody that fits the ravens OLine mold of stronger than average,very nasty with adequate athleticism. The ravens will not let KO walk. He will be the future anchor of the line. He is an all pro caliber guard and will be a top5 left tackle!! If he leaves then the OLine will be a hot mess!! The anchor Yanda is 32 and there will be a huge need at left tackle as well as depth at guard. Ravens have to many pressing needs to go into this draft needing a left tackle and depth at guard. KO is the most overpowering OLine player in the league!!  Monroe is done. He is unmotivated and terrible even when he plays. He is under 300 LBs currently. Many fans are lying to themselves about Monroe being counted on because he is being payed. He is a terrible signing. 

Im pretty sure Zuttah is only worth a little over a million in cap savings and around 4mill in dead money, I could be wrong though.  If the extra 2mill we get by cutting Monroe can for sure get us KO then we need to do that, no point in keeping Monroe if it cost us a future franchise OL player when Monroe cant even finish a season.  So if we did that, We would need to add a guard for depth by I wouldn't say its one of our pressing needs

[Halshayeji]

5 hours ago, ravenz2752 said:

Face it. KO is likely to leave. I know Ryan Jensen and John Urchel have played well, but does no one else see depth or competition a necessity? I see it as a bigger need than receiver

I get where your coming from. We may not have one of the best recieving crew but certainly not one of the worst. Perriman didnt play a down and should be back next year along with SSS who was on pace for a 1600 yard season and Aiken who got more than 900 yards and outplayed the likes of Crabtree. Add our 3 developing TE's and Waller and Camp. We have a pretty descent crew.

Assuming that KO leaves, we need a few linemen not just one. Jensen and Urchel are developing beautifully but Jensen is still not ready to start in the NFL and Urchel is almost there but not quite. Lets say it this way. Urchel is one of the best backups in the league but probably needs one more year of seasoning. Hurst, I gave up on him. 

Keep in mind, Wagner and Jensen are in contract years so we really need a few linemen for the future. Also, If we draft a Tackle with our first or second, he can always slide to the interior until hes NFL ready outside 

Edited February 3, 2016 by Halshayeji

[usmccharles]

11 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

I get where your coming from. We may not have one of the best recieving crew but certainly not one of the worst. Perriman didnt play a down and should be back next year along with SSS who was on pace for a 1600 yard season and Aiken who got more than 900 yards and outplayed the likes of Crabtree. Add our 3 developing TE's and Waller and Camp. We have a pretty descent crew.

 

I really wouldn't say Aiken outplayed Crabtree.   Crabtree had 22 yards less than Aiken but 4 more TDs.  You can nit pick some things between the two i.e QB play, #1wr vs #2 wr etc...but I don't think one really outplayed the other.  Still cant believe they gave him that contract

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I really wouldn't say Aiken outplayed Crabtree.   Crabtree had 22 yards less than Aiken but 4 more TDs.  You can nit pick some things between the two i.e QB play, #1wr vs #2 wr etc...but I don't think one really outplayed the other.  Still cant believe they gave him that contract

And in hindsight, it isn't looking terrible for a developing and up and coming quarterback because he'll have the same two weapons (assuming no cuts) for the next four years. That's smart.

[usmccharles]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

And in hindsight, it isn't looking terrible for a developing and up and coming quarterback because he'll have the same two weapons (assuming no cuts) for the next four years. That's smart.

Yea I was one of the few that wanted us to sign him here last off-season.  I don't think hes worth the money but the Raiders have so much cap space it doesn't really matter.  Will for sure help Carr develope

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

Yea I was one of the few that wanted us to sign him here last off-season.  I don't think hes worth the money but the Raiders have so much cap space it doesn't really matter.  Will for sure help Carr develop

I wanted him here, too, but for this reason alone right here, he's worth the money. Also, I'm not sure how the guaranteed money works, but they could cut him after this season and regain all their money, so I'm assuming all the guaranteed money is paid out after this year. 

And given the stats he put up as a number two receiver, I'd say he's worth that contract when you consider number one receivers routinely break $10-$14M per season. This was actually probably one of their better moves in free agency in recent years.

[usmccharles]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

I wanted him here, too, but for this reason alone right here, he's worth the money. Also, I'm not sure how the guaranteed money works, but they could cut him after this season and regain all their money, so I'm assuming all the guaranteed money is paid out after this year. 

And given the stats he put up as a number two receiver, I'd say he's worth that contract when you consider number one receivers routinely break $10-$14M per season. This was actually probably one of their better moves in free agency in recent years.

Agreed.  They have actually made a lot of good moves and draft selections lately.  I like them for the future. 

[rmcjacket23]

5 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Im pretty sure Zuttah is only worth a little over a million in cap savings and around 4mill in dead money, I could be wrong though.  If the extra 2mill we get by cutting Monroe can for sure get us KO then we need to do that, no point in keeping Monroe if it cost us a future franchise OL player when Monroe cant even finish a season.  So if we did that, We would need to add a guard for depth by I wouldn't say its one of our pressing needs

I've told him this many times already. I have no idea where he keeps getting his $5M number from, but its dead wrong. His cap number is roughly $4.6M, but there's $3.3M in dead money attached to that. Even as a post June-1 cut, he saves $3.5M, and you don't get that until June.

[757RavensFan]

7 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I've told him this many times already. I have no idea where he keeps getting his $5M number from, but its dead wrong. His cap number is roughly $4.6M, but there's $3.3M in dead money attached to that. Even as a post June-1 cut, he saves $3.5M, and you don't get that until June.

 

it's comical at this point.  

[usmccharles]

7 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I've told him this many times already. I have no idea where he keeps getting his $5M number from, but its dead wrong. His cap number is roughly $4.6M, but there's $3.3M in dead money attached to that. Even as a post June-1 cut, he saves $3.5M, and you don't get that until June.

Haha I know right.  Seems he never checks numbers or players ages and just blurts stuff out, quite entertaining to say the least. 

[Winchester]

3 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

 

it's comical at this point.  

Even if KO plays tackle which is where I expect him to play. The ravens are fine at guard. Jensen is a stud!! Big strong athletic and nasty!! Urschel will be a superior center than Zuttah by end of preseason. He is stronger smarter and nasty as well. He turns his opponents off the ball and mauls. The OLine was very dominant the last 2 games against very good defensive lines. The ravens could use some depth if Zuttah is cut which is realistic because he saves $5mil. And Urschel will be the better center as he completes his acclimation. I would like to see ravens trade down and pick up an extra round2 or round3 pick and draft an olineman for depth like Denver Kirkland. Somebody that fits the ravens OLine mold of stronger than average,very nasty with adequate athleticism. The ravens will not let KO walk. He will be the future anchor of the line. He is an all pro caliber guard and will be a top5 left tackle!! If he leaves then the OLine will be a hot mess!! The anchor Yanda is 32 and there will be a huge need at left tackle as well as depth at guard. Ravens have to many pressing needs to go into this draft needing a left tackle and depth at guard. KO is the most overpowering OLine player in the league!!  Monroe is done. He is unmotivated and terrible even when he plays. He is under 300 LBs currently. Many fans are lying to themselves about Monroe being counted on because he is being payed. He is a terrible signing. 

[757RavensFan]

1 minute ago, Winchester said:

Even if KO plays tackle which is where I expect him to play. The ravens are fine at guard. Jensen is a stud!! Big strong athletic and nasty!! Urschel will be a superior center than Zuttah by end of preseason. He is stronger smarter and nasty as well. He turns his opponents off the ball and mauls. The OLine was very dominant the last 2 games against very good defensive lines. The ravens could use some depth if Zuttah is cut which is realistic because he saves $5mil. And Urschel will be the better center as he completes his acclimation. I would like to see ravens trade down and pick up an extra round2 or round3 pick and draft an olineman for depth like Denver Kirkland. Somebody that fits the ravens OLine mold of stronger than average,very nasty with adequate athleticism. The ravens will not let KO walk. He will be the future anchor of the line. He is an all pro caliber guard and will be a top5 left tackle!! If he leaves then the OLine will be a hot mess!! The anchor Yanda is 32 and there will be a huge need at left tackle as well as depth at guard. Ravens have to many pressing needs to go into this draft needing a left tackle and depth at guard. KO is the most overpowering OLine player in the league!!  Monroe is done. He is unmotivated and terrible even when he plays. He is under 300 LBs currently. Many fans are lying to themselves about Monroe being counted on because he is being payed. He is a terrible signing. 

Any particular reason why you quoted me w/ your same comment from earlier?   

Like others have stated numerous times, there's not a $5M savings if Zuttah is cut. 

[Winchester]

757 mcjacket and Charles I am very flattered you guys watch and remember everything about me. Would you guys like my Facebook so you can follow me closer?? It would be comical to really meet you guys!! Nearly $4mil in savings means a lot when there is a stronger more dominating center.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Winchester

[JoeyFlex5]

i wont call it a need until KO is officially gone and jensen and urschel suddenly look like scrubs. urschel was a failed experiment at center but he still has played solid at guard when asked, and jensen was a roadgrader out there when asked to start and has consistently been on the active roster for a few years now. id say guard is a position where we have some solid depth and still have good starters

[Winchester]

8 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Any particular reason why you quoted me w/ your same comment from earlier?   

Like others have stated numerous times, there's not a $5M savings if Zuttah is cut. 

I overheard peeps  somewhere talking about over $4mil in savings.

[757RavensFan]

11 minutes ago, Winchester said:

757 mcjacket and Charles I am very flattered you guys watch and remember everything about me. Would you guys like my Facebook so you can follow me closer?? It would be comical to really meet you guys!! Nearly $4mil in savings means a lot when there is a stronger more dominating center.

Don't flatter yourself.  People who post outlandish comments as facts w/out any supporting info tend to stand out.  

[rmcjacket23]

31 minutes ago, Winchester said:

I overheard peeps  somewhere talking about over $4mil in savings.

Then those "peeps" you heard were wrong and don't know what they are talking about.

Might want to fact-check before posting next time. Copying and pasting a link to information like that takes mere seconds...

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Then those "peeps" you heard were wrong and don't know what they are talking about.

Might want to fact-check before posting next time. Copying and pasting a link to information like that takes mere seconds...

Yea but some people who do that post 3 year old articles... 

[rmw10]

I don't think anyone is expecting Jensen or Urschel to step in and us not miss a beat.  KO is one of the better Gs in the league and it's not going to be easy to replace that.  However, I don't view it as a major need, simply because we have guys that are going to have to step in.  Would I love to address the position with a legitimate G?  Sure, as would everyone I assume.  I think the big reason many don't look at it as a need because we can't possibly address them all.  When I look at where the holes are, G is pretty much the only spot where you have viable options to step in.

[RavensFanMania]

@rmw10 I completely agree.  Guard is a low priority right now with so many other more important needs.  I'm not saying guard isn't of importance, as it is extremely important and as you said, KO is one of the best guards in the game and has shown his versatility to be able to play LT.  I don't think we will be able to resign him and feel we will address that with Jensen and Urschel could be next years center as well.  We tend to draft offensive lineman pretty well, for the most part though, so I'm not worried. 

[Wildabeast88]

Until KO is gone I agree that we are fine at Guard Yanda then take your pick Urschel/Jensen as your other starter that still leaves you one as a solid backup. WR is a question we don't know what we have in Perriman SSS coming off of injury Aiken is a solid player but Camp Waller Butler Daniel Brown can fill out the back end but still leaves some questions. Pass rush is the top priority Suggs being hurt Doom aging plus the pass rush can lead to better secondary play

[BmoreBird22]

8 hours ago, Winchester said:

I overheard peeps  somewhere talking about over $4mil in savings.

Are those the same peeps that told you about Logan Mankins and said Miller was better than Boyd and Doctson?

[ellicottraven]

When you really think about our depth, we need depth on our O-line for sure. Nobody knows if K.O will be retained but more than likely not just given his demand in the open market. Hurst is an okay depth tackle but God forbid, if a LT should go down for an extended period of time, I don't know if Hurst could hold up. Hopefully, Monroe has a career and motivational epiphany and suddenly wants to play even if his pinky is hurting a little bit.

Despite people claiming that Urschel is a better center than Zuttah are wrong. He can be a better Center over time, but isn't near Zuttah's run blocking or for that matter pass blocking right now. Now, Jensen is a less talented Yanda clone in some ways and will make a serviceable LG. But, we need to draft some future guards and trade for a serviceable back up tackle.

[PurpleCity5]

Guard is a bigger need than WR? Disagree completely. I don't think we need another WR, I think we need another play-maker. Look at how many times we have lost a game because guys couldn't separate or make plays on the ball? I personally think another play-maker here and we win a few more games this year. I don't feel ultra-confident in Jensen or Urschel, but I think we have more pressing needs at CB, WR, and OLB than I'd rather rely on Jensen and John to step it up, sometimes you need that step-up guy, we did it with Ricky Wagner and it worked out, I'd rather do it at guard then WR and CB which was been a problem for how long? 

[ALPHA]

I think it's worth mentioning that the best guards in the league are converted undersized tackles, Yanda, Josh Sitton, Zach Martin, Joel Bitonio, Evan Mathis etc

[Halshayeji]

6 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Guard is a bigger need than WR? Disagree completely. I don't think we need another WR, I think we need another play-maker. Look at how many times we have lost a game because guys couldn't separate or make plays on the ball? I personally think another play-maker here and we win a few more games this year. I don't feel ultra-confident in Jensen or Urschel, but I think we have more pressing needs at CB, WR, and OLB than I'd rather rely on Jensen and John to step it up, sometimes you need that step-up guy, we did it with Ricky Wagner and it worked out, I'd rather do it at guard then WR and CB which was been a problem for how long? 

Just my humble opinion,

1- Wagner worked for one year with a lot of help from C.Gilmore standing next to him most of the time. This previous season, Wagner looked like an average RT at best.

2- Unlike you, I have a lot of confidence in Urschel and Jensen developing into NFL starters one day. But I'm also a realist and understand that day is not today. They are not going to offset the loss of KO who in my books played at a probowl level but was never voted in because its a popularity contest these days.

3- Absolutely agree. This team in general needs a few playmakers not depth.

4- I say O-Line is more pressing need because at the moment, we have 2 guaranteed starters (Zuttah, Yanda) 2 average guys that need to step up or step away. (Wagner, Monroe) and 2 good developing backups (Jensen, Urschel). notice i left Hurst out because i don't see him on this team much longer. If we bring an above average lineman then he automatically starts in this rotation.

At WR its a different scenario. SSS and K.Aiken are #1 and 2 with perriman stretching the field and a few good young guns fighing for playing time. If we bring in an above average wr then he has to earn playing time and is not even guaranteed starting minutes.

Same thing can be said about OLB. Yes we need someone to eventually carry the batton after Suggs and Doom. But if we bring in an above average OLB then he wont even get playing time behind those guys. Pass rusher is a need but not necessarily for 2016. 

CB is probably the only position that is a more urgent need than Oline because Webb has now converted to FS leaving us extremely thin at CB. If we bring in 2 above average CB's they most likely would start at #2 and nickle by the end of training camp.