Is Joey Bosa Doomed?

[BmoreBird22]

http://jeremywrites.sportsblog.com/posts/11343295/joey-bosa-is-doomed.html

I think the title of the thread and the article will about answer the question.

[RaineV1]

Quote

Some may argue on Terrell Suggs, Dwight Freeney, and Jared Allen’s behalf; all valid contenders. However, Freeney and Suggs are technically outside linebackers, even though they line up on the edges, and Jared Allen did not excel in college as he has in the NFL.

The technicality he uses for Suggs and Freeney aren't completely accurate. I'm pretty sure the Ravens still ran a 4-3 during Sugg's rookie season. Not sure if it was his 2nd or 3rd year that we switch to a 3-4. So Suggs did have a great year as a DE. As for Freeney, the Colts ran a 4-3 for just about the entire time he played there.

[allblackraven]

4 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

The technicality he uses for Suggs and Freeney aren't completely accurate. I'm pretty sure the Ravens still ran a 4-3 during Sugg's rookie season. Not sure if it was his 2nd or 3rd year that we switch to a 3-4. So Suggs did have a great year as a DE. As for Freeney, the Colts ran a 4-3 for just about the entire time he played there.

That may be but it's long, long time ago regardless.

As far as Bosa goes, I think Nassib and maybe Buckner will do better in at least their early NFL years.

[PurpleCity5]

Suh didn't live up to expectations? What does the writer mean by that? I'm fairly certain Suh exceeded his expectations on the field. You can argue about his tactics on the field, but off the field I can't recall him getting in too much trouble, not that I support what he did on the field, I just really disagree with that representation for his overall play. I don't like the Mario Williams evidence either, he's always been a great player. He was awarded a $100M contract for a reason. 

 

8 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

The technicality he uses for Suggs and Freeney aren't completely accurate. I'm pretty sure the Ravens still ran a 4-3 during Sugg's rookie season. Not sure if it was his 2nd or 3rd year that we switch to a 3-4. So Suggs did have a great year as a DE. As for Freeney, the Colts ran a 4-3 for just about the entire time he played there.

That's exactly true. Suggs was a 4-3 DE and as was Freeney. They were both great there. 

[RaineV1]

I do think Bosa might turn out to be overrated. There's a chance for Buckner, Shaq Lawson, and Noah Spend to have better careers. He definitely needs to go to the right team to really reach his potential.

[ellicottraven]

Regardless of the blogger's opinion, I believe if he's available when we pick, he is a Raven period. Then again, Ozzie, Eric and Joe Hortiz know a little more about scouting than htat blogger for sure. If he's available and we don't pick him, I'll only say we had a better choice at 6.

[January J]

18 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

I do think Bosa might turn out to be overrated. There's a chance for Buckner, Shaq Lawson, and Noah Spend to have better careers. He definitely needs to go to the right team to really reach his potential.

I think Buckner could turn out to be the top player of the class along with Tunsil who is definitely as advertised. Would be thrilled with either of them in black and purple. Bosa is one of those players that just has to go to the right place. He could have a hard time starting out, and I think guys like spence, Lawson and even yannick have more immediate success.

[52520Andrew]

Aaron Donald certainly dominated in college and has dominated in the NFL thus far

Also considering how much Suh just got paid, I find it hard to say he wasn't worth it even with the flags

Marcel Dareus has done well too

Gerald McCoy

Also throwing out Suggs because he is an edge rusher and including Clowney and Williams who are both edge rushers.

Edited January 30, 2016 by 52520Andrew

[rmw10]

Past history of other players doesn't mean much to me.  You have to look at the individual player.

[GrimCoconut]

43 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Aaron Donald certainly dominated in college and has dominated in the NFL thus far

Also considering how much Suh just got paid, I find it hard to say he wasn't worth it even with the flags

Marcel Dareus has done well too

Gerald McCoy

Also throwing out Suggs because he is an edge rusher and including Clowney and Williams who are both edge rushers.

He specifies he is only referring to edge defenders and not interior defensive linemen.

[52520Andrew]

16 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

He specifies he is only referring to edge defenders and not interior defensive linemen.

Then why use Suh and Watt as examples and leave out Sizzle and Mathis? 

[GrimCoconut]

33 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Then why use Suh and Watt as examples and leave out Sizzle and Mathis? 

Not sure. If you read his comments he says he specifies edge defenders. Lol, I get your point, though. 

[allblackraven]

He did ask specifically "how many DE or DT...." though.

[JoeyFlex5]

He left out Aaron donald, Mohammed Wilkerson who was criminally underrated by the media, JPP was one of the league's feared DEs and lived up to his title of freak athlete edge rusher, khalil Mack who is a hybrid guy and could be lumped in with these folks, and he hasn't even bothered to wait and see if guys like Vic Beasley will pan out. Meanwhile he is basing his argument on guys like suh getting suspended and Clowney being raw and injured and lazy... Stupid article. 

 

However... I do think bosa will fail to live up to the expectations the MEDIA has set for him. He is doomed to unfair expectations, he's a DE and a refined power rusher, not the flashiest breed of player but he can certainly earn a living as a 3 down defender who contributes heavily against the run AND pass, sadly folks will be disappointed when he isn't getting 14 sacks a year because the media will lead fans to believe he is some freak generational edge rusher when in reality he's just a Damn good football player 

[GrimCoconut]

I think this guy just wants the clicks fellas. 

[outkast1]

I like Joey ! The kid is a powerful pass rusher. He is not a 1st round draft pick because most NFL tackles can match his power and he has no speed.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, outkast1 said:

I like Joey ! The kid is a powerful pass rusher. He is not a 1st round draft pick because most NFL tackles can match his power and he has no speed.

Well thats just not true

[rmw10]

1 hour ago, outkast1 said:

I like Joey ! The kid is a powerful pass rusher. He is not a 1st round draft pick because most NFL tackles can match his power and he has no speed.

If he's not, then who is?

[Ravensfan23]

I won't compare Bosa and Suggs in terms of play exactly but I'll do so in terms of impact. Suggs has never really been viewed as a top pass rusher in terms of guys who you'd pick off the top of your head. Suggs doesn't often take over a game like you saw with Miller and Ware, or you'd see from Freeney and Mathis. In a lot of eyes Suggs used to be the 3rd best rusher in the AFCN between Harrison and Woodley. Those guys are feared more in media eyes. 

However Suggs commands the respect of his peers because he dominates the game in so many areas. For years Suggs has been the best complete OLB in the NFL. He played both run and pass so well and is so smart that he often takes RBs out of the passing game as safety valves for the QB. A ton of what Suggs does goes unnoticed most times because he's not always getting 12-15+ sacks every year. 

This is the type of player I see in Bosa. He's an extremely smart and sound player who the right type of DC will maximize. He can rush from anywhere on the line and much like Suggs is a smart defender in the passing game. Not saying he's Suggs because Sizzle is a HOFer in my book. However I do think Bosa will have solid numbers like Suggs and get more respect from his peers then the media in most cases.

[BmoreBird22]

I almost really want to comment on that article to show him he's flat out wrong and disregarding legitimate players who prove him wrong, but at the same time, the guy seems like a troll who's going to go to every length to just say, "No, not true," just because he is on a high horse.

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I almost really want to comment on that article to show him he's flat out wrong and disregarding legitimate players who prove him wrong, but at the same time, the guy seems like a troll who's going to go to every length to just say, "No, not true," just because he is on a high horse.

He's a real jerk. If you read his replies to the article they're not very respectful. 

[BmoreBird22]

48 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

He's a real jerk. If you read his replies to the article they're not very respectful. 

Oh yeah, that's why I'm not going to. That last guy provided legitimate answers to the author's question and he goes off about the guy not being able to read. 

It says very clearly that he's looking for DT's and DE's that dominated in college and the pros and that response was doing exactly that. Seems like a real egotist.

And I posted a long reply only to find out he's 19 and wants to work on the radio because he has a face for it. Well, that's about all I needed to know.

Edited January 31, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[harfordravenfan]

15 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I won't compare Bosa and Suggs in terms of play exactly but I'll do so in terms of impact. Suggs has never really been viewed as a top pass rusher in terms of guys who you'd pick off the top of your head. Suggs doesn't often take over a game like you saw with Miller and Ware, or you'd see from Freeney and Mathis. In a lot of eyes Suggs used to be the 3rd best rusher in the AFCN between Harrison and Woodley. Those guys are feared more in media eyes. 

However Suggs commands the respect of his peers because he dominates the game in so many areas. For years Suggs has been the best complete OLB in the NFL. He played both run and pass so well and is so smart that he often takes RBs out of the passing game as safety valves for the QB. A ton of what Suggs does goes unnoticed most times because he's not always getting 12-15+ sacks every year. 

This is the type of player I see in Bosa. He's an extremely smart and sound player who the right type of DC will maximize. He can rush from anywhere on the line and much like Suggs is a smart defender in the passing game. Not saying he's Suggs because Sizzle is a HOFer in my book. However I do think Bosa will have solid numbers like Suggs and get more respect from his peers then the media in most cases.

Well said.

Thoughts on whether Bosa would be best suited for a 4-3 and or could he be successful as an OLB?

[Mt. Crushmore]

31 minutes ago, harfordravenfan2 said:

Well said.

Thoughts on whether Bosa would be best suited for a 4-3 and or could he be successful as an OLB?

Much better suited to be a 4-3 DE, but he could fit into a 3-4 OLB role.

[PurpleCity5]

9 minutes ago, Mt. Crushmore said:

Much better suited to be a 4-3 DE, but he could fit into a 3-4 OLB role.

I have the same settlements, but I certainly think he can fit into that 3-4 Rush role, I see him filling the spot McPhee had with Za'Darius Smith filling Upshaws role. 

[Clmraven]

I don't think Bosa is doomed, I just think he's been hyped up by the media, (like a lot of top prospects) creating unfair expectations. He's been talked up as an "athletic freak" I really don't see that, but he's a solid prospect without a lot of huge questions, and would come in the league and probably be one of the most powerful OLBs if a 3-4 team drafted him.

 

if we were to draft him though, I would kinda hope we just play a base 4-3 more maybe draft an athletic LB or 2 in the later rounds to help with the switch.

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, harfordravenfan2 said:

Well said.

Thoughts on whether Bosa would be best suited for a 4-3 and or could he be successful as an OLB?

 

24 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I have the same settlements, but I certainly think he can fit into that 3-4 Rush role, I see him filling the spot McPhee had with Za'Darius Smith filling Upshaws role. 

He's a football player. Place him on the field and let him work. I think his versatility allows him to play either 4-3 or 3-4. Obviously being in a 4-3 the last 3 years makes him a better fit there because it's an easier transition. However I think he's more then capable playing in the Ravens 3-4 like has been already mentioned. 

 

The Ravens already allow guys like Upshaw to rush from the DT position on 3rd downs so I can't imagine why Bosa wouldn't be used there.

I wouldn't ask him to do much man coverage but the Ravens don't ask their OLBs to do that any way. I don't think he'll add any speed to the defense but he'd definitely add that impactful presence to the Dline that frees up others to make plays.

[PurpleCity5]

5 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

 

He's a football player. Place him on the field and let him work. I think his versatility allows him to play either 4-3 or 3-4. Obviously being in a 4-3 the last 3 years makes him a better fit there because it's an easier transition. However I think he's more then capable playing in the Ravens 3-4 like has been already mentioned. 

 

The Ravens already allow guys like Upshaw to rush from the DT position on 3rd downs so I can't imagine why Bosa wouldn't be used there.

I wouldn't ask him to do much man coverage but the Ravens don't ask their OLBs to do that any way. I don't think he'll add any speed to the defense but he'd definitely add that impactful presence to the Dline that frees up others to make plays.

I certainly believe that he can fit into a 3-4 OLB but better than a 4-3 DE? Obviously not. I think his ability to bend around the edge is certainly a concern, but there has been an addition of bigger guys who has been able to make that jump, Mario Williams was a 3-4 OLB before going to Buffalo, Julius Peppers is a 4-3 DE who made that jump to a 3-4 OLB, and Aaron Lynch is very similar to Bosa in size and weight, and is a great edge rusher. Thing is these guys have shown the ability to bend around the edge, Bosa is unproven there. I still would take him and put him in that OLB/DE role, I think if he can bend around the edge better and learn to dip his shoulders, that he will dominant. You're going to get a guy who will match a fourth year Pernell McPhee production, with Bosa being a rookie. 

Edited January 31, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[JoeyFlex5]

4 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I certainly believe that he can fit into a 3-4 OLB but better than a 4-3 DE? Obviously not. I think his ability to bend around the edge is certainly a concern, but there has been an addition of bigger guys who has been able to make that jump, Mario Williams was a 3-4 OLB before going to Buffalo, Julius Peppers is a 4-3 DE who made that jump to a 3-4 OLB, and Aaron Lynch is very similar to Bosa in size and weight, and is a great edge rusher. Thing is these guys have shown the ability to bend around the edge, Bosa is unproven there. I still would take him and put him in that OLB/DE role, I think if he can bend around the edge better and learn to dip his shoulders, that he will dominant. You're going to get a guy who will match a fourth year Pernell McPhee production, with Bosa being a rookie. 

That shoulder is the key. He is a very technically sound player with more than enough athleticism and ridiculous power. The biggest concern for him as a olb to me is the shoulder dip, he does tend to play high and in situations where I feel he should win the corner, he ends up stuck in a pocket push and loses on plays where he should have won. I think he learns it just fine though to be honest. I have never soured on bosa in the slightest 

[ALI624]

I forget at the combine do DL players get to do drills that LBs do?  Love to see Bosa going through LB drills.