Has Ozzie lost his touch?

[PurpleCity5]

I don't think he's lost his touch but I honestly think we're overvaluing Comp picks as a whole. Yeah, its nice to have some more picks in the later rounds of the draft but we missed out on talent. Sometimes talent trumps Comp picks. I think Oz has made brilliant selections with these comp picks, but sometimes you got to let those picks go.  I think he's as good as ever but he did have a hand in both our of disappointing seasons, 2013 and of course this year. I think the F.O just got too overconfident on some guys such as Rashan Melvin, Upshaw, Za'darius Smith, Marlon Brown, and ect.

Edited February 5, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[Steve0x]

Ozzie Stays! Until he retires! Ill be damned if Ravens start looking like Angelos O's 

[RavensDieHard21]

No GM has a flawless resume. While he is imperfect, Ozzie certainly is a top tier GM who has created many great teams here. I could make a long list of great moves and some bad ones like everyone else has outlines, but let's reserved our judgement until after the draft and free agency. With our draft position and a little breathing room in our cap space, I feel Oz will build a great unit for next year. With essentially 2 first rounders, picking twice in the first 36 picks, I feel Oz will land two immediate starters and will add great depth players in the 4th. We also get to see how our previous picks develop. I predict that Jernigan makes the leap this year to a solid 6-8 sack a year lineman and that Carl Davis becomes more of a force too. Reserve your judgments until May

[Purple_City39]

The problem here is Ozzie has been drafting on a god tier level from 96 to about 2009 (although the 04 draft was bad) and some don't allow him to be human and make mistakes.  You also have to factor that since Harbaugh and Flacco came along, the Ravens were consistently picking in the 20s or 30s until the 2014 draft as opposed to the 20s and earlier in the Billick days.  The higher the pick the better chance of a star (see Elam (#32) vs Mosely (#17) in back to back seasons).  

And finally, people are somehow counting injuries against him too.  Sergio Kindle does a few no hands cartwheels down a few flights of stairs, blame Ozzie.  Perriman misses season even though he was healthy for almost all of his college career, question Ozzie's touch.  

And then there's the focus on the 1st round pick.  Elam and A.Brown suck but what about B.Williams in the 3rd, Wagner in the 5th, Juice and Gilmore in the 4th?  Jensen is likely the starter next season and he played well in limited time yet was picked in the 6th.    Perriman didn't play but we saw good promise out of M.Williams (2nd), Davis (3rd), Z.Smith (4th), Buck (4th) and Boyle (5th).  In fact, with the exception of 2012, Ozzie has gotten very good performance out of 5th round draft picks since 2010.  5 out of 6 years on fliers.  That's something I doubt many other GMs can boast.

Ozzie hasn't lost his touch.  Just unforeseen injuries and many years of picking late in each round is being compared to years of healthy players and getting better draft positioning

[Purple_City39]

2015 -  Too early to tell on this draft

2014 - Also kind of early but Mosley is a good player.  Jernigan is a good player.  Gillmore is a beast.  Urschel is a potential starter from the 5th round.  The rest haven't seen enough playing time due to injury (which can't be predicted) or being a backup QB

2013 - Everybody focuses on the 1st two picks not being good (Elam and A.Brown) but what about after them?  B.Williams is probably the best at his position, top 3 at worst (3rd round).  Simon was stolen by another team that obviously thought he was a good pick.  A starting offensive tackle, and the best before his lisfranc injury, was found in the 5th round named Ricky Wagner.  Ryan Jensen, a 6th round pick looked better at LG than KO did at LT last season and is likely the starter.  Juice is a FB but you can't tell me he's not very good.  KLM is a good backup also from the 6th round.  That's too many good players for me to focus on two bad choices (7th rounders are fliers, them being bad is expected).

2012 - This is probably the worst draft of the 4 from top to bottom and coincidentally it's also the one with the best player overall as of now.  KO is about to be the highest paid guard in NFL history.

Elam sucks.  Perriman got injured.  A.Brown didn't play.  People need to stop using a few players as proof for some "Ozzie has lost his touch" narrative while ignoring all the good players drafted along with them.  The 1st round pick isn't the only one drafted

[ellicottraven]

44 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

2015 -  Too early to tell on this draft

2014 - Also kind of early but Mosley is a good player.  Jernigan is a good player.  Gillmore is a beast.  Urschel is a potential starter from the 5th round.  The rest haven't seen enough playing time due to injury (which can't be predicted) or being a backup QB

2013 - Everybody focuses on the 1st two picks not being good (Elam and A.Brown) but what about after them?  B.Williams is probably the best at his position, top 3 at worst (3rd round).  Simon was stolen by another team that obviously thought he was a good pick.  A starting offensive tackle, and the best before his lisfranc injury, was found in the 5th round named Ricky Wagner.  Ryan Jensen, a 6th round pick looked better at LG than KO did at LT last season and is likely the starter.  Juice is a FB but you can't tell me he's not very good.  KLM is a good backup also from the 6th round.  That's too many good players for me to focus on two bad choices (7th rounders are fliers, them being bad is expected).

2012 - This is probably the worst draft of the 4 from top to bottom and coincidentally it's also the one with the best player overall as of now.  KO is about to be the highest paid guard in NFL history.

Elam sucks.  Perriman got injured.  A.Brown didn't play.  People need to stop using a few players as proof for some "Ozzie has lost his touch" narrative while ignoring all the good players drafted along with them.  The 1st round pick isn't the only one drafted

Good job! You are correct.

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, ellicottraven said:

Good job! You are correct.

Actually the OLine picks was Castillo's scouting. Gilmore is a good blocker but not a special TE. Brandon Williams is good but big body run pluggers come a dime a dozen. It is not the just the draft. His signings are mostly very bad extensions. Jimmy,Pitta,Monroe,Rice,Arrington,Suggs is on books til 36.

[Purple_City39]

5 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Actually the OLine picks was Castillo's scouting. Gilmore is a good blocker but not a special TE. Brandon Williams is good but big body run pluggers come a dime a dozen. It is not the just the draft. His signings are mostly very bad extensions. Jimmy,Pitta,Monroe,Rice,Arrington,Suggs is on books til 36.

So because we've drafted good o-lineman, you're going to give that praise to Castillo (and I bet you can't link anything that says all those signings were his).  But you want to put all the bad drafted players, and contracts, on Ozzie even though Ozzie is NOT the one in charge of contract talks?  Interesting

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

14 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

So because we've drafted good o-lineman, you're going to give that praise to Castillo (and I bet you can't link anything that says all those signings were his).  But you want to put all the bad drafted players, and contracts, on Ozzie even though Ozzie is NOT the one in charge of contract talks?  Interesting

Castillo scouting college players??? Im sure he ends up giving his input on lineman that make the ravens big board... but dude is off his rocker.

Grim said it and i think as a board we need to all follow suit and just stop replying and quoting his posts. Maybe it will slowly go away if we just ignore.

[757RavensFan]

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

Actually the OLine picks was Castillo's scouting. Gilmore is a good blocker but not a special TE. Brandon Williams is good but big body run pluggers come a dime a dozen. It is not the just the draft. His signings are mostly very bad extensions. Jimmy,Pitta,Monroe,Rice,Arrington,Suggs is on books til 36.

Per the ones in bold, absolutely no knowledgeable fan would be upset w/ their current contracts if they were never injured. 

[RayRave2]

Quote

Even in our worst drafts years we've done better than teams like Jacksonville, Cleveland, Washington, Philly, San Diego, etc. I don't know why people are questioning Ozzie. Every team has had bad drafts. We happen to see them less than many other fans and I think Ravens fans take that for granted. Rule of thumb: when you start doubting our front office just look at the lowly Cleveland Browns and thank God for Ozzie Newsome.

 

[ravefan52]

Our drafts haven't been great recently, but the biggest problem has been the horrible string of luck we've had with injuries and the Rice situation. 

[usmccharles]

3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Castillo scouting college players??? Im sure he ends up giving his input on lineman that make the ravens big board... but dude is off his rocker.

Grim said it and i think as a board we need to all follow suit and just stop replying and quoting his posts. Maybe it will slowly go away if we just ignore.

I about spit out my beer all over my computer when i read that statement

[Cville-Raven]

Considering Osemele was drafted well before Castillo was even a ravens employee, him being solely responisble for the O-line picks is a bunch of bs. 

[BmoreCOfan52]

8M for a 2 year contract for 35yo Watson? If that doesn't sum up this thread I don't know what to say... Check out the guys stats since 2004 and try to convince anyone with a clue this was a good signing. We could have easily picked up someone with his ability for a fraction of this price if we waited. So far all of the sports writers outside of the Bmore propaganda machine are scratching their heads on this one. If you think this was a great signing make sure you take a look back at this move late next season

[ludy51]

8 hours ago, BmoreCOfan52 said:

8M for a 2 year contract for 35yo Watson? If that doesn't sum up this thread I don't know what to say... Check out the guys stats since 2004 and try to convince anyone with a clue this was a good signing. 

OK.

2015 stats: 825 yards. 6 TD's. Decent blocker as well.

I'd say he's worth it

 

[usmccharles]

8 hours ago, BmoreCOfan52 said:

8M for a 2 year contract for 35yo Watson? If that doesn't sum up this thread I don't know what to say... Check out the guys stats since 2004 and try to convince anyone with a clue this was a good signing. We could have easily picked up someone with his ability for a fraction of this price if we waited. So far all of the sports writers outside of the Bmore propaganda machine are scratching their heads on this one. If you think this was a great signing make sure you take a look back at this move late next season

2004 has literally nothing to do with anything, 11 years ago? really? and last year he put up  better numbers than all of our TEs combined

[Cville-Raven]

9 hours ago, BmoreCOfan52 said:

8M for a 2 year contract for 35yo Watson? If that doesn't sum up this thread I don't know what to say... Check out the guys stats since 2004 and try to convince anyone with a clue this was a good signing. We could have easily picked up someone with his ability for a fraction of this price if we waited. So far all of the sports writers outside of the Bmore propaganda machine are scratching their heads on this one. If you think this was a great signing make sure you take a look back at this move late next season

What has he done lately? I'd say pretty good. I don't care what he did 11 years ago.

[BmoreCOfan52]

3 hours ago, ludy51 said:

OK.

2015 stats: 825 yards. 6 TD's. Decent blocker as well.

I'd say he's worth it

 

Do you think that maybe the reason he has finally put up big numbers at the end of his career has something to do with Drew Brees and the fact he lost Jimmy Graham (didn't have anyone else to throw to). Ever notice how 100% of the players in the NFL put up bigger numbers right before a new pay day is coming. Of course New Orleans also played against a ton of soft defenses last year? Another bone headed move by Ozzie and all of you thinking this was a good move were thrilled about the Foxworth contract as well I guarantee. Ozzie has a history of falling in love with bad to mid level talent players with good character and way overpaying them

Edited March 10, 2016 by BmoreCOfan52

[Guest]

You'd have to be serious lap dog to not recognize Oz's draft record has been slumping. 

 

[ludy51]

16 minutes ago, Danny D said:

You'd have to be serious lap dog to not recognize Oz's draft record has been slumping. 

 

Did you not see the previous post by @Purple_City39?

[ALPHA]

5 hours ago, Danny D said:

You'd have to be serious lap dog to not recognize Oz's draft record has been slumping. 

 

We won the Super Bowl 3 years ago and last year we were at the AFC title game, so do I think he deserves some leeway? absolutely, especially since he doesn't actually develop the players. People need to be less short sighted and see things with a bit of context.

 

[DomMcRaven]

I'll say this much: this thread has definitely been.................entertaining to say the least. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

The people who questions Ozzie's drafts are the ones who think you have to hit a star in the 1st round for a draft to be good. But the fact of the matter is, most drafts only produce a couple star players period.

Most 1st rounds have a couple stars, a few career starters, some depths pieces, and guys that never make it. After the 1st round, the likelihood of getting even a quality starter diminishes greatly. 

Bc of that, every year, only a couple teams at best find a legit star player; and only a few more find a quality starter or 2. By that reality, if you can find a quality starter and a few good depth pieces, thats a solid draft. Finding a star player and a starter or 2 is about as good as you can hope for. Hitting a HoF type player is incredibly rare, which unfortunately is the standard Ozzie has created for himself since hes done it more regularly than anyone since becoming a GM.

But, based on the NFL as a whole... Ozzie may not have done what he did frequently in the late 90's and early 2000's in terms of drafting over the past couple drafts... but he has still been comparably darn solid.

In each of the past few drafts, even when our 1st or 2nd rounders have been duds, we've managed to pick up solid starters and contributors in the mid-to-late rounds. Who cares if you miss your 1st round pick if you get a guy in the 5th round who's better than 2/3 of the guys taken in the 1st?

That's the logic that should be applied, and the criteria for measuring Oz's success.

2013 for example is a draft that people point to to support their opinion that Ozzies losing his touch bc we got Elam in the 1st and Brown in the 2nd. Ok, not great picks - in fact pretty bad. 

But then he gets Brandon Williams in the 3rd (arguably the best NT in the game), Juice (pro bowl FB), Wagner (best RT taken in the draft his rookie year), and Jensen who may be a starter at LG this year.

So, in one draft Ozzie nails 3 starters (2 pro bowl caliber players) and possibly a 4th whose been good depth up until now. Find another team who was able to do that in that draft... itd be even harder to find a team who accomplished that only counting picks in round 3 or later.

 

I've always said this.... if you're going to claim Ozzies drafting has been subpar, then do the work. Prove it. Line Ozzies recent track record up against another GM's, year by year, pick by pick, with draft position taken into account... and let's see how many stars, quality starters, and contributors each get. Find me one thats got a better track record, consistently than Ozzie.

Until then, its just blowing hot air.

[Maryland]

I do seriously question why we have 7 tight ends on the current roster (even though Pitta will obviously be cut). The Watson signing seems like a poor use of resources, especially considering it will cost one of our two comp. picks (and that's assuming Upshaw qualifies for one). I'm guessing Crockett will start the year on PUP (despite recent optimism), meaning they have Watson, Maxx, and Waller at TE week 1. 

I also really don't like how Oz has been restructuring a lot of contracts lately. Even with the cap increasing in the future, you're giving yourself less cap flexibility down the road. 

[Winchester]

10 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

The people who questions Ozzie's drafts are the ones who think you have to hit a star in the 1st round for a draft to be good. But the fact of the matter is, most drafts only produce a couple star players period.

Most 1st rounds have a couple stars, a few career starters, some depths pieces, and guys that never make it. After the 1st round, the likelihood of getting even a quality starter diminishes greatly. 

Bc of that, every year, only a couple teams at best find a legit star player; and only a few more find a quality starter or 2. By that reality, if you can find a quality starter and a few good depth pieces, thats a solid draft. Finding a star player and a starter or 2 is about as good as you can hope for. Hitting a HoF type player is incredibly rare, which unfortunately is the standard Ozzie has created for himself since hes done it more regularly than anyone since becoming a GM.

But, based on the NFL as a whole... Ozzie may not have done what he did frequently in the late 90's and early 2000's in terms of drafting over the past couple drafts... but he has still been comparably darn solid.

In each of the past few drafts, even when our 1st or 2nd rounders have been duds, we've managed to pick up solid starters and contributors in the mid-to-late rounds. Who cares if you miss your 1st round pick if you get a guy in the 5th round who's better than 2/3 of the guys taken in the 1st?

That's the logic that should be applied, and the criteria for measuring Oz's success.

2013 for example is a draft that people point to to support their opinion that Ozzies losing his touch bc we got Elam in the 1st and Brown in the 2nd. Ok, not great picks - in fact pretty bad. 

But then he gets Brandon Williams in the 3rd (arguably the best NT in the game), Juice (pro bowl FB), Wagner (best RT taken in the draft his rookie year), and Jensen who may be a starter at LG this year.

So, in one draft Ozzie nails 3 starters (2 pro bowl caliber players) and possibly a 4th whose been good depth up until now. Find another team who was able to do that in that draft... itd be even harder to find a team who accomplished that only counting picks in round 3 or later.

 

I've always said this.... if you're going to claim Ozzies drafting has been subpar, then do the work. Prove it. Line Ozzies recent track record up against another GM's, year by year, pick by pick, with draft position taken into account... and let's see how many stars, quality starters, and contributors each get. Find me one thats got a better track record, consistently than Ozzie.

Until then, its just blowing hot air.

Look at the state of the team right now. More needs than impact players. When the team moved to Baltimore he was surrounded by some good assistants put together by Belicheat. Ozzie himself said he learned most everything from Belicheat.  The gm learning from the coach how to scout and put a team together?? What is wrong with that picture What was he even doing there?? His connection as a player for the franchise. Belicheat put together a good team of assistants and scouts. The ravens draft picks after the move to Baltimore was the scouting of that team of assistants Belicheat assembled. Ozzie was receiving very good information from those guys. But Ozzie being the gm got his name stamped on everything. The bpa approach was taught to Jim by Belicheat. The key free agent signings was the result of Ozzie's assistants identifying the right fits. I will give Ozzie some credit for some things at the time and his skills but that is for a different discussion. Now it is a different NFL and system and Ozzie does not have a Belicheat/role model to learn from. He has Decosta and the jury is way out with him so far. 

[Maryland]

Belichick has actually had some pretty bad drafts since becoming GM, especially the last couple years. He has hit on a few nice gems, but there are a lot of garbage picks under his tenure. His team would be terrible if he didn't have Brady. 

[Winchester]

9 minutes ago, Maryland said:

Belichick has actually had some pretty bad drafts since becoming GM, especially the last couple years. He has hit on a few nice gems, but there are a lot of garbage picks under his tenure. His team would be terrible if he didn't have Brady. 

 

Yep absolutely. He has a terrible habit of not listening to his own scouts!! He is criticized for being a control freak and not realizing that while he is coaching his scouts are watching college!!

[Virginia 55]

18 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

The people who questions Ozzie's drafts are the ones who think you have to hit a star in the 1st round for a draft to be good. But the fact of the matter is, most drafts only produce a couple star players period.

Most 1st rounds have a couple stars, a few career starters, some depths pieces, and guys that never make it. After the 1st round, the likelihood of getting even a quality starter diminishes greatly. 

Bc of that, every year, only a couple teams at best find a legit star player; and only a few more find a quality starter or 2. By that reality, if you can find a quality starter and a few good depth pieces, thats a solid draft. Finding a star player and a starter or 2 is about as good as you can hope for. Hitting a HoF type player is incredibly rare, which unfortunately is the standard Ozzie has created for himself since hes done it more regularly than anyone since becoming a GM.

But, based on the NFL as a whole... Ozzie may not have done what he did frequently in the late 90's and early 2000's in terms of drafting over the past couple drafts... but he has still been comparably darn solid.

In each of the past few drafts, even when our 1st or 2nd rounders have been duds, we've managed to pick up solid starters and contributors in the mid-to-late rounds. Who cares if you miss your 1st round pick if you get a guy in the 5th round who's better than 2/3 of the guys taken in the 1st?

That's the logic that should be applied, and the criteria for measuring Oz's success.

2013 for example is a draft that people point to to support their opinion that Ozzies losing his touch bc we got Elam in the 1st and Brown in the 2nd. Ok, not great picks - in fact pretty bad. 

But then he gets Brandon Williams in the 3rd (arguably the best NT in the game), Juice (pro bowl FB), Wagner (best RT taken in the draft his rookie year), and Jensen who may be a starter at LG this year.

So, in one draft Ozzie nails 3 starters (2 pro bowl caliber players) and possibly a 4th whose been good depth up until now. Find another team who was able to do that in that draft... itd be even harder to find a team who accomplished that only counting picks in round 3 or later.

 

I've always said this.... if you're going to claim Ozzies drafting has been subpar, then do the work. Prove it. Line Ozzies recent track record up against another GM's, year by year, pick by pick, with draft position taken into account... and let's see how many stars, quality starters, and contributors each get. Find me one thats got a better track record, consistently than Ozzie.

Until then, its just blowing hot air.

How many Fullbacks are in the league?  

[Wildabeast88]

On January 30, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Tru11 said:

On March 10, 2016 at 0:04 AM, BmoreCOfan52 said:

8M for a 2 year contract for 35yo Watson? If that doesn't sum up this thread I don't know what to say... Check out the guys stats since 2004 and try to convince anyone with a clue this was a good signing. We could have easily picked up someone with his ability for a fraction of this price if we waited. So far all of the sports writers outside of the Bmore propaganda machine are scratching their heads on this one. If you think this was a great signing make sure you take a look back at this move late next season

At first I hated the move but think more closely about the move. Watson is a durable smart TE our current TEs Pitt excluded are all young and learning from a veteran could help the development of Gillmore, Williams, and Boyle as well as learning how to take care of your body as well (Gillmore) and how to not be a knucklehead (Boyle) plus Ozzie is a hall of fame TE so I trust his      judgement on the position but the lessons the young guys could learn from Watson is priceless.