Has Ozzie lost his touch?

[AsianRice]

On 1/27/2016 at 5:53 PM, HomeoftheBRAVENS said:

Didn't Biscotti say that Decosta has taken over the draft the past few seasons in the season end review?Maybe that's part of the reason why we've had drafts like the 2013 one.On the other hand though,I do think that some of the defensive players we've drafted lately would've turned out better if we had a better DC.If we would've drafted Tyrann Mathieu and the Cardinals drafted Elam,Elam would be a stud right now and Mathieu would look like Elam.Also,CJ Mosley would be playing like Luke Kuechly if we had a better DC.Rex made his guys look like superstars.Mattison took the same group Rex had and had them looking weak.Pagano took the same group Mattison had and turned into a shut down defense the next year.Peas took the same group Pagano had and it's never been the same since.If we can find the next Rex/Pagano our talent will play better.It's not all about the talent that's been drafted and signed.WE HAVE THE TALENT.Peas is just making everyone Ozzie and Decosta bring in look like the wrong move.

You've said everything I wanted to say....+1

[Winchester]

3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Impact signings: Anquan Boldin, Steve Smith, Elvis Dumervil, Justin Forsett, Daryl Smith, Corey Graham, Josh Wilson, Jacoby Jones, Vonta Leach, Will Hill, Chris Canty, Owen Daniels, Eugene Monroe, Bryant McKinnie, Jeremy Zuttah, Bobby Williams (G/C I think that was his name) Darian Stewartetc...

 

Impact picks:

Jimmy Smith, CJ Mosely, Brandon Williams, Pernell McPhee, KO, John Urschel, Rick Wagner, Timmy Jernigan, Dennis Pitta, Crockett Gilmore, Maxx Williams, Nick Boyle, Kyle Juzcyk, Buck Allen, Carl David, Zadarius Smith, Art Jones, Torrey Smith, Justin Tucker, Taliaferro, Tyrod Taylor, etc...

 

I'm sure I missed a couple. 2-3 impact FA's every offseason and 3-4 contributing players with about 8 that have played at a pro bowl level by my estimation. 

Garbage. 

 

Especially when picking at the back end of every round and strapped with limited to no cap space. How could someone do so poorly? 

 

Nice try but most of those picks are serviceable. If all those players were impact much less 8 pro bowlers the ravens should of won several rings last 4 yrs!! And most played well within Harbs system and were useless going to opposing teams like art Jones and Torrey. Boyle Buck taliaferro Davis may not even be starting caliber!! Juice is a fullback lol.Gilmore will never be a top receiving TE.  Zadarius and Maxx have a ways to go before being impact pro bowl caliber players. Monroe and Pitta were terrible signings as Pitta was on I.r. when signed!! Brilliant!! Forsett was lucky and rode a dominant OLine anyways. Bring him back again at $3mil and his age and you will see!! Mckinnie was a terrible signing as well when he was given the extension at his age. He was lucky SS was not washed up at 36. Counting on him next year at 37 coming off Achilles will show my point Ozzie going to the well to many times and counting on old players. As will Suggs who will no longer be an impact edge rusher yet can not be cut for a couple yrs cuz of terrible contract structure. You forgot Jensen who actually is impact!! But somebody in the organization knows OLine studs and it is not Ozzie!! OLine player picks are sterling!! I don't care what off says, Jensen outplayed Yanda in the pittsburg game!! If Ozzie could find playmakers the ravens would of blew the Bengals out by halftime. But I think this is the draft the ravens find receiver talent in early and mid rounds.

[JetLife94]

I remember reading an article with something about starting to evaluate more players with immediate impact rather than project players that take a year or two to adapt. 

[The Raven]

8 hours ago, Winchester said:

His last trade down costed Harrison Smith!! And yet nobody notices Ozzie made the worst move of the draft!! And ended up with Scrubshaw. His trade ups for Pierce and Brown were terrible. It was actually a feeble attempt to trade up for Sanu. The ravens have drafted some OLine steals like KO, Wagner,JENSEN and Urschel. Jensen is as good as early draft picks Zeitler and Cooper. Urschel will be a top6 center. Wagner when not banged up is the best right tackle in the league. And KO is a top5 OLine talent at tackle or guard. But that is somebody within that knows OLine talent!!

 

Please stop. You're giving me and everyone else here irreparable brain damage. Jensen is not even close to as good as Zeitler right now. KO might be top five at guard but no way in hell at tackle. Stick to what you know.

 

Also, for the people without critical thinking skills: You can find talent in every round. Trading down gives us more mid round picks, where Ozzie excels. You can argue with me but it's not even arguable. Ozzie kills it in the mid rounds. Frankly, the draft is an educated guess. Wagner is a top ten RT but was a mid-late rounder, while some first and second round RTs are terrible. Sergio Kindle looked like he had Lawrence Taylor type potential but didn't pan out. It's an educated guess. To me, it's better to have more mid round picks than to have higher picks, especially when you have a good scouting department and good coaches. With more mid rounders, you're more likely to find good players, just because you'll have more players that you're picking. When you trade up, sure you have a guy that looks like the real deal, but as we all know, not everyone pans out the way you think. 

 

But sure, let's just trade up because that player is guaranteed to be a star.

[Tru11]

4 hours ago, The Raven said:

 

Please stop. You're giving me and everyone else here irreparable brain damage. Jensen is not even close to as good as Zeitler right now. KO might be top five at guard but no way in hell at tackle. Stick to what you know.

 

Also, for the people without critical thinking skills: You can find talent in every round. Trading down gives us more mid round picks, where Ozzie excels. You can argue with me but it's not even arguable. Ozzie kills it in the mid rounds. Frankly, the draft is an educated guess. Wagner is a top ten RT but was a mid-late rounder, while some first and second round RTs are terrible. Sergio Kindle looked like he had Lawrence Taylor type potential but didn't pan out. It's an educated guess. To me, it's better to have more mid round picks than to have higher picks, especially when you have a good scouting department and good coaches. With more mid rounders, you're more likely to find good players, just because you'll have more players that you're picking. When you trade up, sure you have a guy that looks like the real deal, but as we all know, not everyone pans out the way you think. 

 

But sure, let's just trade up because that player is guaranteed to be a star.

this

[allblackraven]

4 hours ago, The Raven said:

 

Please stop. You're giving me and everyone else here irreparable brain damage. Jensen is not even close to as good as Zeitler right now. KO might be top five at guard but no way in hell at tackle. Stick to what you know.

 

Also, for the people without critical thinking skills: You can find talent in every round. Trading down gives us more mid round picks, where Ozzie excels. You can argue with me but it's not even arguable. Ozzie kills it in the mid rounds. Frankly, the draft is an educated guess. Wagner is a top ten RT but was a mid-late rounder, while some first and second round RTs are terrible. Sergio Kindle looked like he had Lawrence Taylor type potential but didn't pan out. It's an educated guess. To me, it's better to have more mid round picks than to have higher picks, especially when you have a good scouting department and good coaches. With more mid rounders, you're more likely to find good players, just because you'll have more players that you're picking. When you trade up, sure you have a guy that looks like the real deal, but as we all know, not everyone pans out the way you think. 

 

But sure, let's just trade up because that player is guaranteed to be a star.

I agree for the most part.

We don't often have the luxury of picking this high though. The likelihood of finding a true star playmaker and game changer at #6 is far greater than hitting in the mid round. I think we really need to scout out the heck of the top of this class and find that guy. We have enough good players, we need couple of great ones now.

[Halshayeji]

15 hours ago, Winchester said:

Ozzie is a moron. He took credit when he was surrounded by a good staff. You are correct!! What impact talent has he drafted in last 5 drafts?? Ozzie is a HOMERS ICON!! He could run the team into the cellar and the typical homers will kneel down before him and defend his every terrible move. Every last bust and terrible signing will get excused cuz he has been hyped up by the media for political reasons.

Oh my lord!!!!

Bro i know your pissed off after a horrible season as we won 5 games. Guess what, SO ARE WE.

But to go out on a limb and call Ozzie a moron is a bit out of line. Sure you can say what you believe hes over rated for A,B,C. You can call his draft a bust. Heck you can even call his actions moronic if you can point them out but to go out and call him straight up "moron" is uncalled for.

First of all, Ozzie is a GM. His job is to surround himself with good staff. So how can you take credit away from him when his staff is working on all cylinders. We sure as hell will point the finger at him if the HC he hires is a bust or if his players are not united. I for one was fast to blame him when players were getting in trouble off field and thankfully he fixed it. We were fast to point the finger and say " Hey Pees and Tresman are struggling we may need a change" Ozzie backed them up and kept them. If they fail again this year then its on him. 

Secondly, Ozzie and Decosta have done a very admirable job in drafting when you compare how many drafted player on our roster in comparison to other teams. The issue anyone may have with Ozzie is that hes missed in the first 2 rounds. (particularly Elam and A Brown). Most of those falters can be atributed to late picks where its really hard for any GM to assure a quality starter. You also cant blame a GM as much when a B Perriman is hurt for the whole season and still has 3 years left. If you can name me 3 teams that have drafted late (20-32) better than the Ravens in the past 5 years then I may concede. Last time Ozzie an Decosta picked in the top 15 they picked a Probowler year one!

Thirdly, comparing GM's is a weird game because they usually have different assets at different times. Its like someone saying look at the jets they brough in Revis, Marshall, and a lot of other guys in FA. Yeah they had about 70 mil in free cap to burn where Ozzie had less than 10. Compare Ozzie with a GM that has similar resources. Someone that's backed into a Salary Cap wall and then compare what they did. Ozzie actually did pretty well by landing us 3 comp picks and keeping this squad relevant.

Last but not least, You claimed that Ozzie is hyped up for political reasons....  And I soooo disagree with you there because that's so not true. Ozzie is hyped up because hes a HOF player and GM. Hes one of a very elite few that have won 2 super bowls in 15 years and always remained relevant as a team. Really hard to win with a startup team and even harder to consistently be relevant in a smaller city. Ozzie has done it and that's why he usually gets the benefit of the doubt. Ozzie is well respected because the coaching tree under him is twice as big as the next contender on that list. The only card one can pull with Ozzie is that he can relate to troubled players better than most GM's around the league. Quite frankly, I think that's well deserved praise. Look at Will Hill and SSS and ask them if theyd play for any other GM in the league if they had the choice.

[The Raven]

4 hours ago, allblackraven said:

I agree for the most part.

We don't often have the luxury of picking this high though. The likelihood of finding a true star playmaker and game changer at #6 is far greater than hitting in the mid round. I think we really need to scout out the heck of the top of this class and find that guy. We have enough good players, we need couple of great ones now.

 

You aren't wrong, and I see your point. I was speaking more generally about the perks of trading down. We're projected to have ten picks right now if I'm not mistaken. Trading down would be overkill this season, but I wouldn't mind trading down into the 10-15 range and picking up an extra 2 or 3 along the way.

[Winchester]

7 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

Oh my lord!!!!

Bro i know your pissed off after a horrible season as we won 5 games. Guess what, SO ARE WE.

But to go out on a limb and call Ozzie a moron is a bit out of line. Sure you can say what you believe hes over rated for A,B,C. You can call his draft a bust. Heck you can even call his actions moronic if you can point them out but to go out and call him straight up "moron" is uncalled for.

First of all, Ozzie is a GM. His job is to surround himself with good staff. So how can you take credit away from him when his staff is working on all cylinders. We sure as hell will point the finger at him if the HC he hires is a bust or if his players are not united. I for one was fast to blame him when players were getting in trouble off field and thankfully he fixed it. We were fast to point the finger and say " Hey Pees and Tresman are struggling we may need a change" Ozzie backed them up and kept them. If they fail again this year then its on him. 

Secondly, Ozzie and Decosta have done a very admirable job in drafting when you compare how many drafted player on our roster in comparison to other teams. The issue anyone may have with Ozzie is that hes missed in the first 2 rounds. (particularly Elam and A Brown). Most of those falters can be atributed to late picks where its really hard for any GM to assure a quality starter. You also cant blame a GM as much when a B Perriman is hurt for the whole season and still has 3 years left. If you can name me 3 teams that have drafted late (20-32) better than the Ravens in the past 5 years then I may concede. Last time Ozzie an Decosta picked in the top 15 they picked a Probowler year one!

Thirdly, comparing GM's is a weird game because they usually have different assets at different times. Its like someone saying look at the jets they brough in Revis, Marshall, and a lot of other guys in FA. Yeah they had about 70 mil in free cap to burn where Ozzie had less than 10. Compare Ozzie with a GM that has similar resources. Someone that's backed into a Salary Cap wall and then compare what they did. Ozzie actually did pretty well by landing us 3 comp picks and keeping this squad relevant.

Last but not least, You claimed that Ozzie is hyped up for political reasons....  And I soooo disagree with you there because that's so not true. Ozzie is hyped up because hes a HOF player and GM. Hes one of a very elite few that have won 2 super bowls in 15 years and always remained relevant as a team. Really hard to win with a startup team and even harder to consistently be relevant in a smaller city. Ozzie has done it and that's why he usually gets the benefit of the doubt. Ozzie is well respected because the coaching tree under him is twice as big as the next contender on that list. The only card one can pull with Ozzie is that he can relate to troubled players better than most GM's around the league. Quite frankly, I think that's well deserved praise. Look at Will Hill and SSS and ask them if theyd play for any other GM in the league if they had the choice.

Cap space is created through more intelligent contracts. Not stupid ones. Like the Ray Rice deal was ridiculous before he showed the piece of garbage he is. And contracts constructed in ways that cutting Suggs at 35 yrs old saves no money. Ozzie even acknowledged he learned from belichick and the staff he assembled. Happened to need defensive players when great ones were the obvious pick!! Then there was all this new money to spend In free agency because of a new ownership partner and the ravens were  major players in free agency simultaneously with high draft picks. He was surrounded with good assistants found by belichick. It was never Ozzies brilliance or non brilliance. Even the top 10 picks there were busts like Travis Taylor and Starks. There were borderline hof cornerbacks drafted after Starks. Ozzie moves to repeat a championship were terrible!! Not to mention while hitting on most of the top10 draft picks the ravens failed to draft a pro bowler or borderline pro bowler after round One which could of went a long way in repeating. Then there are the terrible contracts and mediocre drafting since 2010. This garbage he picks later round one is just excuses. The same peeps using that excuse are the same ones agreeing with Ozzie's conservativeness in not trading up. That makes no sense!! And being content to pick whatever name is left in the hat when it comes around. That is incompetent!! Winning is player specific!! Trading down if his players are gone?? Seriously?? Just settling for whatever players are  left. He is only smart when he has smart people around him.  Trading out of the Harrison Smith pick and grabbing Upshaw is typical ozzie when there is no smart assistants helping him. He could botch the next entire draft and people will defend every move. Because the media has hard wired it into every listening Homer he is a genius. I have yet to talk to anybody who knows Ozzie that agrees he is the genius the fans are programmed to believe. The current draft is incomplete so far. Maxx will be really good. Not the out of shape Maxx that was drafted and was ashamed of himself at training camp for being so slow and weak and decisively brought down like a ragdoll by 190lb dbacks. But the leaner stronger more explosive Maxx reshaping his body. There were better tackles than Carl Davis,such as Grady Jarrett who in my opinion Will be one of the steals of the draft!! And Diggs who played in the backyard and wanted to be a raven and lasted til round5. However not saying I want Ozzie fired.

[usmccharles]

28 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Cap space is created through more intelligent contracts. Not stupid ones. Like the Ray Rice deal was ridiculous before he showed the piece of garbage he is. And contracts constructed in ways that cutting Suggs at 35 yrs old saves no money. Ozzie even acknowledged he learned from belichick and the staff he assembled. Happened to need defensive players when great ones were the obvious pick!! Then there was all this new money to spend In free agency because of a new ownership partner and the ravens were  major players in free agency simultaneously with high draft picks. He was surrounded with good assistants found by belichick. It was never Ozzies brilliance or non brilliance. Even the top 10 picks there were busts like Travis Taylor and Starks. There were borderline hof cornerbacks drafted after Starks. Ozzie moves to repeat a championship were terrible!! Not to mention while hitting on most of the top10 draft picks the ravens failed to draft a pro bowler or borderline pro bowler after round One which could of went a long way in repeating. Then there are the terrible contracts and mediocre drafting since 2010. This garbage he picks later round one is just excuses. The same peeps using that excuse are the same ones agreeing with Ozzie's conservativeness in not trading up. That makes no sense!! And being content to pick whatever name is left in the hat when it comes around. That is incompetent!! Winning is player specific!! Trading down if his players are gone?? Seriously?? Just settling for whatever players are  left. He is only smart when he has smart people around him.  Trading out of the Harrison Smith pick and grabbing Upshaw is typical ozzie when there is no smart assistants helping him. He could botch the next entire draft and people will defend every move. Because the media has hard wired it into every listening Homer he is a genius. I have yet to talk to anybody who knows Ozzie that agrees he is the genius the fans are programmed to believe. The current draft is incomplete so far. Maxx will be really good. Not the out of shape Maxx that was drafted and was ashamed of himself at training camp for being so slow and weak and decisively brought down like a ragdoll by 190lb dbacks. But the leaner stronger more explosive Maxx reshaping his body. There were better tackles than Carl Davis,such as Grady Jarrett who in my opinion Will be one of the steals of the draft!! And Diggs who played in the backyard and wanted to be a raven and lasted til round5. However not saying I want Ozzie fired.

I do agree with you that Oz should move up more to get "our guy."  But....its easy to sit back and judge things after the fact, everyone does it but Oz and every other front office has to decide on draft day then we get months to pick apart their assessments.  I dont think us Oz supporters would give him a pass if he keeps making these picks that amount to nothing, i woudnt.  But also, didnt it come out that Decosta has been making the picks the last couple years? 

I dont know why i respond to you when you type up these blocks of letters with out any form of organization to your thoughts.  But i know what you think of most things and i know its pointless to do this with you.  my bad

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

20 hours ago, Winchester said:

 

Nice try but most of those picks are serviceable. If all those players were impact much less 8 pro bowlers the ravens should of won several rings last 4 yrs!! And most played well within Harbs system and were useless going to opposing teams like art Jones and Torrey. Boyle Buck taliaferro Davis may not even be starting caliber!! Juice is a fullback lol.Gilmore will never be a top receiving TE.  Zadarius and Maxx have a ways to go before being impact pro bowl caliber players. Monroe and Pitta were terrible signings as Pitta was on I.r. when signed!! Brilliant!! Forsett was lucky and rode a dominant OLine anyways. Bring him back again at $3mil and his age and you will see!! Mckinnie was a terrible signing as well when he was given the extension at his age. He was lucky SS was not washed up at 36. Counting on him next year at 37 coming off Achilles will show my point Ozzie going to the well to many times and counting on old players. As will Suggs who will no longer be an impact edge rusher yet can not be cut for a couple yrs cuz of terrible contract structure. You forgot Jensen who actually is impact!! But somebody in the organization knows OLine studs and it is not Ozzie!! OLine player picks are sterling!! I don't care what off says, Jensen outplayed Yanda in the pittsburg game!! If Ozzie could find playmakers the ravens would of blew the Bengals out by halftime. But I think this is the draft the ravens find receiver talent in early and mid rounds.

Anquan Boldin in playoffs, Steve Smith, Dumervil, Forsett, Tyrod Taylor, Jimmy Smith, Daryl Smith, CJ Mosely, Justin Tucker, Brandon Williams, Pernell McPhee, Leach, Jacoby Jones, KO, and Juice have all played at or gone on to play at a pro bowl level for at least one season since Oz brought them in. 

Thats 15. 

And impact player doesn't mean pro bowls or all pros. If that's the case then there's only 2-4 impact players at every position in the entire league... In which case knocking our GM for not hitting a couple every year is even more absurd.

If you're going to troll at least bring something to the table. Your paper-thin, hardly intelligible comments are easy to punch through. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

6 hours ago, Winchester said:

Cap space is created through more intelligent contracts. Not stupid ones. Like the Ray Rice deal was ridiculous before he showed the piece of garbage he is. And contracts constructed in ways that cutting Suggs at 35 yrs old saves no money. Ozzie even acknowledged he learned from belichick and the staff he assembled. Happened to need defensive players when great ones were the obvious pick!! Then there was all this new money to spend In free agency because of a new ownership partner and the ravens were  major players in free agency simultaneously with high draft picks. He was surrounded with good assistants found by belichick. It was never Ozzies brilliance or non brilliance. Even the top 10 picks there were busts like Travis Taylor and Starks. There were borderline hof cornerbacks drafted after Starks. Ozzie moves to repeat a championship were terrible!! Not to mention while hitting on most of the top10 draft picks the ravens failed to draft a pro bowler or borderline pro bowler after round One which could of went a long way in repeating. Then there are the terrible contracts and mediocre drafting since 2010. This garbage he picks later round one is just excuses. The same peeps using that excuse are the same ones agreeing with Ozzie's conservativeness in not trading up. That makes no sense!! And being content to pick whatever name is left in the hat when it comes around. That is incompetent!! Winning is player specific!! Trading down if his players are gone?? Seriously?? Just settling for whatever players are  left. He is only smart when he has smart people around him.  Trading out of the Harrison Smith pick and grabbing Upshaw is typical ozzie when there is no smart assistants helping him. He could botch the next entire draft and people will defend every move. Because the media has hard wired it into every listening Homer he is a genius. I have yet to talk to anybody who knows Ozzie that agrees he is the genius the fans are programmed to believe. The current draft is incomplete so far. Maxx will be really good. Not the out of shape Maxx that was drafted and was ashamed of himself at training camp for being so slow and weak and decisively brought down like a ragdoll by 190lb dbacks. But the leaner stronger more explosive Maxx reshaping his body. There were better tackles than Carl Davis,such as Grady Jarrett who in my opinion Will be one of the steals of the draft!! And Diggs who played in the backyard and wanted to be a raven and lasted til round5. However not saying I want Ozzie fired.

Since 2000, Oz has drafted more pro bowl appearances in the 1st round than anyone beside the 49ers. 

His success in finding talent in later rounds and UDFA is well-documented and if you don't recognize that well you're just blind. 

Youre a hindsight warrior. Anyone can play that game. Once you know how players have turned out it's easy to say what could've or should've happened. 

And the "bad contracts" weren't bad at the time - they only look bad because of events beyond the control of the FO. 

Hard not to resign Rice when he's arguably the best offensive weapon in the league. Or Pitta when he's your most clutch 3rd down and red zone target. Or Monroe when you get him for quite a bit less than either Veldheer or Albert who were both viewed as lesser options. 

The prudent decisions were made at the time with all the info available. Sometimes things don't go as planned. It happens. 

But the stability and consistent decision- making of the FO has led to 2 Super Bowls in a 15 year span, and only 2 losing seasons over that same period. If not for injuries that'd only be 1 losing season and we likely would have contended again this year like we did last with a depleted secondary. 

 

Idk do why I or anyone wastes the time to respond. Kennedy shouldn't have gone with the convertible. It's easy in hindsight. 

[PurpleCity5]

I don't think Ozzie has lost his touch, but there are plenty of decisions that he has made that you can look back on and even today say were highly questionable. I'll outline some but these were decisions in which he underestimated many players. This dates back to after we won the SB. 

 

Trading Anquan Boldin(Which I understood) but failing to replace him. Please tell me what Tandon Doss and Deonte Thompson did during their time in Baltimore prior to Anquan leaving? I don't miss Anquan at all, but the replacements were way overestimated. We've moved on from this, but it contributed largely to our sub-part 2013 campaign. 

 

Underestimating Corey Graham. This has hurt us dearly, if Graham was here, Webb would've been packing bags long ago. I can't get upset at Jacoby's deal because he was such a play-maker. Unlike McPhee, Graham was retainable, this isn't hindsight, Ozzie knew that CB would take a hit with Graham leaving so who did he rely upon, Chykie Brown, who played well in 2012 but for most of 2013, didn't do much. I can't call this hindsight, this was a gamble move by Ozzie.

 

I personally think there were things that happened out of Ozzies hand like BP, Sizzle, and Monroe all going down for the year which obviously hurt us. 

 

With this in mind, look at the moves he made, getting guys like Pernell McPhee, Brandon Williams, and Ricky Wagner all late in the draft who have proven to be steals, getting Steve Smith here, and trading for Jeremy Zuttah. The guy knows how to build a roster and lets not forget after every down year, we manage to rebound, should we doubt him now? 

[Ravenseconbeast]

Who has done a better job with picks late as ours(25-32) past decade?  

Check how many comp picks we get compare to other teams

This question will disappear when Ozzie draft @april.   They know how serious this year is to replenish on serious playmakers.  This might be the only time in next 5years to go under top 10.  

Question like this is brought up simply out of boredom.  I don't take it seriously, and neither should anyone.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Excuses, excuses, excuses! The thing about excuses is that everybody has one. Ozzie, his son and his protégé Eric are the group who are primarily responsible for selecting & evaluating our players. Nobody has the right to rest on his laurels, not even the Great Wizard of Oz! Our most obvious failure was not in who we drafted but rather when we drafted some of them. A case in point is C.J. Moseley. He was a great pick but we needed to draft a replacement for Ray Lewis while Ray was still here so he could help groom his replacement. Fans who are looking at Oz's track record since 2012 are missing the point. By drafting reactively instead of proactively , we have waited too long to find replacements for key players. That was true in the case of Ray, Ed Reed, Anquan Boldin and others. Oz's & John's philosophy of agreeing to agree isn't serving the organization well because John is not a great evaluator of talent and its not his job to do so. To properly evaluate Oz's recent performance record, one must start looking well before 2012, the last year we had Ed Reed and Ray Lewis. Now ,we are in the unfortunate position of having waited too late to groom replacements for Sizzle and Doom. Our laundry list of needs is growing, not diminishing. BTW, who made the brilliant decision to release Michael Oher? It has worked out fairly well for Michael who will be seeking another SB ring. It hasn't worked out that well to resolve our LT problem. I have heard the owner say that he has two GMs - Oz & Eric DeCosta. If that's true, it may be time to start grooming replacements for both of them 'cause what they've done lately is apparently not working. I.e., if Eric is a clone of Oz, all we can expect is more of the same.                                 

[thieverycorporation]

Interesting perspective written here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/02/01/lombardis-way/a-shift-in-the-ravens-war-room/

[GrimCoconut]

@frozen joe flacco fan

Cam Newton makes Oher look better than he is because when you have a QB that is a legitimate threat to run the ball, it's harder to simply attack like you normally would. I thought this before and even posted how I wondered why Oher looked better in Carolina than Baltimore and Tennessee. The other day I heard John Urschel in a radio interview confirm my belief when he stated what I just said. 

[GrimCoconut]

I think Ozzie is to blame less for failed draft picks and more for other, more crippling failures. Draft picks are a fair criticism, but a legit excuse is Ozzie has been both unlucky in the draft and also been drafting late. These two factors have hurt us. 

Where Ozzie has truly failed this team is in free agency. Monroe, Pitta, and Webb are all looking like major mistakes. Pitta was especially curious considering his injury and the contract given. Webb was a deal that excited me, but one that's also hurt us. Same goes for Monroe.  Then again, the only extension I really questioned was Pitta, so it's hard to blame him much here, either. 

Still, we all wanted Graham back and felt like he and McPhee were guys we needed back but they left anyway. I get why but those were critical losses. 

Even more important is the failed trade acquisitions. I think this may be his single biggest error. Trading for Monroe gave us a shot at the postseason but we still failed to make it, and lost picks that could've really helped this team in that strong draft class [2014]. The Lee Evans trade was another mistake. Givens is a guy I liked but he hasn't really helped us, and I liked what I saw from Davis but he also had little impact; although he should hopefully help this season. 

In fact, I don't recall an impact trade acquisition since Boldin & Wilson.

[thieverycorporation]

No one in the organization seems to read anything outside the building related to actual talent or projected slots. 

Edited February 1, 2016 by thieverycorporation

[balfan23]

12 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think Ozzie is to blame less for failed draft picks and more for other, more crippling failures. Draft picks are a fair criticism, but a legit excuse is Ozzie has been both unlucky in the draft and also been drafting late. These two factors have hurt us. 

Where Ozzie has truly failed this team is in free agency. Monroe, Pitta, and Webb are all looking like major mistakes. Pitta was especially curious considering his injury and the contract given. Webb was a deal that excited me, but one that's also hurt us. Same goes for Monroe.  Then again, the only extension I really questioned was Pitta, so it's hard to blame him much here, either. 

Still, we all wanted Graham back and felt like he and McPhee were guys we needed back but they left anyway. I get why but those were critical losses. 

Even more important is the failed trade acquisitions. I think this may be his single biggest error. Trading for Monroe gave us a shot at the postseason but we still failed to make it, and lost picks that could've really helped this team in that strong draft class [2014]. The Lee Evans trade was another mistake. Givens is a guy I liked but he hasn't really helped us, and I liked what I saw from Davis but he also had little impact; although he should hopefully help this season. 

In fact, I don't recall an impact trade acquisition since Boldin & Wilson.

While I don't know if there could have been anything to resurrect the disaster that was our 2015 season, another item I think to add to your list is Babin. Freeney was available and many of us were thinking he'd be a good addition. When we passed on him, all any of us could think was, we're going off of name recognition only and our evaluators can see he's got nothing left. Well, Babin comes in and contributes significantly to a terrible loss with stupid penalties and is immediately cut. Freeney looked like a rejuvenated player and made it to the NFC Championship. Again - we don't know 100% who is making what decisions ... but in the end, our player eval process that leads to our personnel decisions seems to be in a bit of a rough patch. 

[GrimCoconut]

3 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

While I don't know if there could have been anything to resurrect the disaster that was our 2015 season, another item I think to add to your list is Babin. Freeney was available and many of us were thinking he'd be a good addition. When we passed on him, all any of us could think was, we're going off of name recognition only and our evaluators can see he's got nothing left. Well, Babin comes in and contributes significantly to a terrible loss with stupid penalties and is immediately cut. Freeney looked like a rejuvenated player and made it to the NFC Championship. Again - we don't know 100% who is making what decisions ... but in the end, our player eval process that leads to our personnel decisions seems to be in a bit of a rough patch. 

Yeah. I think this is where we're really missing the mark. Spending money that doesn't pay off really hurts you when you have little of it. 

[ALPHA]

Ozzie got contrarian nerds mad wild up in this

[balfan23]

56 minutes ago, thieverycorporation said:

Interesting perspective written here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/02/01/lombardis-way/a-shift-in-the-ravens-war-room/

Thanks, that was interesting. The most significant quote is: "While Harbaugh may in fact be influencing the draft more than his predecessor, he doesn’t get the blame for the failures that he may have fought for because it is perceived that the draft belongs to Ozzie." 

With that in mind, it is really as if the title of the thread should be "has the FO lost its touch". Just like everything related to the Ravens, its a team effort. Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to state it like that, but I think they have clearly not been as successful of late as they have been in the past. It is critical that this off season they get back on track. 

[thieverycorporation]

1 hour ago, balfan23 said:

Thanks, that was interesting. The most significant quote is: "While Harbaugh may in fact be influencing the draft more than his predecessor, he doesn’t get the blame for the failures that he may have fought for because it is perceived that the draft belongs to Ozzie." 

With that in mind, it is really as if the title of the thread should be "has the FO lost its touch". Just like everything related to the Ravens, its a team effort. Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to state it like that, but I think they have clearly not been as successful of late as they have been in the past. It is critical that this off season they get back on track. 

The article also suggests that Steve may have had his best poker face going while addressing the matter during the SOR presser. He has to be gauging the pulse of the swing in momentum as far drafting and free agency. He says that he doesn't offer input or much of it as far his staff doing there jobs. I can only imagine what transpired during there FL. huddle. Certain aspects of surely centered on adjustments to the draft strategy and false moves during free agency. All I can really say is if Haubaugh truly has any influence on the previous drafts then maybe he's not listening to his coaches. As he was a special teams coach primarily. If your asking your coaches what fits your needs then I can see it.  If not ? What the Heck are you doing? The big board is my issue and the grading of prospects begs a big question. Is it talents stats, scheme, round, need, luxury, availability, draft consensus, etc. What's does the best player available consist of?  

For me the Haubaugh connection to the draft should be minimal at best. We have all seen the Chip experiment go down in epic flames. The only input he should really have is, handing in the positional coaches and scouts consensus with the overall ratings. Coaches coach, GM's manage the team. Too many hands in the food spoils the meal. Some underdone/overdone crap is bound to be plated. I'll take substance over presentation any day of the week.  I think Ozzie should be left to sort out the draft and fall on his own sword if it doesn't pan out. It should be dead quiet in the draft room come draft days. I'm sure Steve can invest in an automated draft tracker board that would ensure they knew in percentages regarding the likelihood of each teams drafting a coveted player during the draft. I'd even bring Urschel to crunch the math and odds per selection. OJT for his masters. Setting up the big board knowing/noting the rivals teams needs and selections would help in any maneuvering needed to get what they covet. Go ahead Steve spend a couple mill. It will help. Paper pencil use Ursh.

Edited February 1, 2016 by thieverycorporation

[frozen joe flacco fan]

4 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

@frozen joe flacco fan

Cam Newton makes Oher look better than he is because when you have a QB that is a legitimate threat to run the ball, it's harder to simply attack like you normally would. I thought this before and even posted how I wondered why Oher looked better in Carolina than Baltimore and Tennessee. The other day I heard John Urschel in a radio interview confirm my belief when he stated what I just said. 

That's an excellent point but I still think Michael played like a Raven. I would have kept him. As for all the FA acquisitions that went bust, what can you say. Its just poor judgment IMO. The FO has real problems that need to be addressed. Our talent is not even close to most of the other contending teams, notwithstanding the injury-riddled season we just endured. I echo the sentiment about the re-signings of Monroe, Pitta and Webb. It seems like they were based more on emotion than logic.

Edited February 1, 2016 by frozen joe flacco fan

[asteroid]

Ozzie is best at evaluating defensive players. Along the way it seems the Ravens decided to go for more offense especially on the O Line which IMO has worked. Unfortunately there has been a rash of injuries. Without that I believe things would have been fine and we wouldn't be talking about this. I'm even more excited about next season especially because our young rookies got much needed playing time and with ANOTHER good draft like last year this team will be set for a few years. it isn't easy to replace 2 top 10 draft picks from the past with rookies and one year players.

 Look what happened to the Patriots after 4 - 5 key injuries. lost 4 of their last 6 games and fell out of the top seed, squeaking past the Chiefs and losing to the Broncos in the playoffs.

Ravens would have beaten the Patriots and went to the Superbowl last year if not for a depleted secondary. Not bad I think for a team that keeps missing on draft picks and quality free agents. Ugh?

 I can't believe this thread even exists.

Edited February 2, 2016 by asteroid

[nextgen_RavensFan]

Oz and company have never been offensive minded and could not pick out offensive talent to save their lives. They have never even came close when choosing receivers. That is a given fact but we all gave come to rely on the strong defense but Oz has struck out there as well the last few years. We are on the same level as the Browns when it comes to picking talent or lower. They have chosen and developed a few nice offensive weapons where we have not. I think it is time for a change and it starts with letting Oz go.

[thieverycorporation]

5 minutes ago, nextgen_RavensFan said:

Oz and company have never been offensive minded and could not pick out offensive talent to save their lives. They have never even came close when choosing receivers. That is a given fact but we all gave come to rely on the strong defense but Oz has struck out there as well the last few years. We are on the same level as the Browns when it comes to picking talent or lower. They have chosen and developed a few nice offensive weapons where we have not. I think it is time for a change and it starts with letting Oz go.

Ozzie may not be the problem. It would have been interesting to have heard whom actually had the final say as to who got selected. There seems to be a disconnect somewhere in the pecking order. I find it hard to believe that he's missing solely on his own. But the latest draft s have been less the stellar. And seemingly they are going out of their way to go against the grain in the evaluations and selections. Meaning they have drafted under the radar prospects and whiffed on well known prospects consistently. It seems that they are intentionally trying to find the diamond in the rough prospects. Quite a few prospects- I'm like who ? Some, way out of left field knowing full well that couldn't have been the best player available because the guy with great tape is still sitting there after you picked. Ridiculous is only word that comes to mind. I'd disconnect the phone to whomever's been feeding them bad intel. Especially concerning the offensive prospects. They definitely need a fresh set of eyes and a better evaluation process. What frightens me most is we really don't know who's calling the shots in the drafts war room or calling shots come pick time. Now if the scouts are evaluating the prospects correctly and it's falling on deaf ears, we'er in real trouble. I truly hope Ozzie and Steve shook the tree and awakened those dosing on the job. JS

[GrimCoconut]

3 hours ago, nextgen_RavensFan said:

Oz and company have never been offensive minded and could not pick out offensive talent to save their lives. They have never even came close when choosing receivers. That is a given fact but we all gave come to rely on the strong defense but Oz has struck out there as well the last few years. We are on the same level as the Browns when it comes to picking talent or lower. They have chosen and developed a few nice offensive weapons where we have not. I think it is time for a change and it starts with letting Oz go.

Hmm...Ray Rice, Ogden, J. Lewis, Heap, Gillmore, Torrey Smith, Flacco, Jermaine Lewis, McClain, Yanda, KO and many more disagree with you. 

[AsianRice]

3 hours ago, nextgen_RavensFan said:

Oz and company have never been offensive minded and could not pick out offensive talent to save their lives. They have never even came close when choosing receivers. That is a given fact but we all gave come to rely on the strong defense but Oz has struck out there as well the last few years. We are on the same level as the Browns when it comes to picking talent or lower. They have chosen and developed a few nice offensive weapons where we have not. I think it is time for a change and it starts with letting Oz go.

I'm falling off my chair when reading this.....I didn't know the Brown won 2 SBs in the last 40yrs, making numerous consecutive post season trips in the last 12yrs, and winning A playoff game in last 20yrs.  I think it is time for a change and it starts with finding us a new real fan with brain.....