Has Ozzie lost his touch?

[PolishRifle]

Alot of people complain about Pees, Harbs, Trestman or Flacco, but what team has Baltimore surrounded our coaching staff and our franchise QB with? If you look at the teams, that went to the Superbowl, you see alot of great picks in the draft (Panthers) and alot of activity in FA (Broncos). Ever since we lost of our keyplayers to retirement after the 2012 season, we didn't draft many difference makers outside of CJ Mosley. Instead we still rely on veteran players to carry the team. Well, we got to see what happens, when we lose Sizzle and Joe. It didn't look good.

Should we start to hold Oz accountable for drafting alot of solid, but not great players  and not making enough splash moves in FA? I love Ozzie and he has been a great GM, but hasn't he lived off past reputation in the last couple years?

I'm in alot of trouble right now, I know, but I feel like this topic is worth discussing.

Edited January 26, 2016 by PolishRifle

[January J]

No.

[The Raven]

I don't think Ozzie has lost his touch, but I do think that he is most responsible for the problems of this past season.

 

Ozzie has to draft solid players, not great ones, because of where we pick in the draft. And if you look around the league at the top teams, they do the same thing. The Patriots, the Packers, and yes, the Steelers tend to pick solid players that do their job and play a role. That's what you HAVE TO DO as a GM when you're always cap-strapped and picking 26-32. It's not like Ozzie can do anything about it. What has made the Patriots great every year is Bill Belichick's ability to find solid players that do their job and don't make mistakes. You don't need play makers to win games. you need players that do their job and don't make mistakes. The Patriots are a perfect example of that. You have to rely on role players who don't make mistakes. BB gets the most out of his guys.

 

Now, this strategy is a gamble and requires a bit of luck. Last off season, Ozzie gambled on our secondary being healthy. He gambled on Elam staying healthy and improving. He gambled on Kyle Arrington, and Kendrick Lewis filling holes we had. If our corners stayed healthy, if Elam didn't get hurt, if Arrington did as well as expected, and if Kendrick Lewis didn't completely crap the bed every chance he had, this would have been a good secondary.  He also gambled on the pass rushers being adequate. He probably expected more out of Dumervil, Tim Jernigan, and even Upshaw. He probably thought Carl Davis would have played better than he did. He didn't plan on Suggs getting hurt. If our pass rush package had Suggs, Dumervil, Jernigan, and Zadarius, as planned, we would have been a hell of a lot better.

 

If you look at Ozzie's draft picks, they've been good. He's picked quality players. But in focusing on the offense in the last draft, he probably didn't get the defense enough firepower. Our bad season doesn't mean Ozzie had a bad draft.  For the most part, all of our draft picks contributed this year, with the exception of you know who and Trey Walker. I would re-do that draft today, only changing the Walker pick. It was a good class. 

 

TL;DR? Ozzie has to gamble because of a tight cap and picking late. He has to rely on finding role players to win games. Sometimes you lose when you gamble, especially when free agents do half as good as expected.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

2 minutes ago, The Raven said:

I don't think Ozzie has lost his touch, but I do think that he is most responsible for the problems of this past season.

 

Ozzie has to draft solid players, not great ones, because of where we pick in the draft. And if you look around the league at the top teams, they do the same thing. The Patriots, the Packers, and yes, the Steelers tend to pick solid players that do their job and play a role. That's what you HAVE TO DO as a GM when you're always cap-strapped and picking 26-32. It's not like Ozzie can do anything about it. What has made the Patriots great every year is Bill Belichick's ability to find solid players that do their job and don't make mistakes. You don't need play makers to win games. you need players that do their job and don't make mistakes. The Patriots are a perfect example of that. You have to rely on role players who don't make mistakes. BB gets the most out of his guys.

 

Now, this strategy is a gamble and requires a bit of luck. Last off season, Ozzie gambled on our secondary being healthy. He gambled on Elam staying healthy and improving. He gambled on Kyle Arrington, and Kendrick Lewis filling holes we had. If our corners stayed healthy, if Elam didn't get hurt, if Arrington did as well as expected, and if Kendrick Lewis didn't completely crap the bed every chance he had, this would have been a good secondary.  He also gambled on the pass rushers being adequate. He probably expected more out of Dumervil, Tim Jernigan, and even Upshaw. He probably thought Carl Davis would have played better than he did. He didn't plan on Suggs getting hurt. If our pass rush package had Suggs, Dumervil, Jernigan, and Zadarius, as planned, we would have been a hell of a lot better.

 

If you look at Ozzie's draft picks, they've been good. He's picked quality players. But in focusing on the offense in the last draft, he probably didn't get the defense enough firepower. Our bad season doesn't mean Ozzie had a bad draft.  For the most part, all of our draft picks contributed this year, with the exception of you know who and Trey Walker. I would re-do that draft today, only changing the Walker pick. It was a good class. 

 

TL;DR? Ozzie has to gamble because of a tight cap and picking late. He has to rely on finding role players to win games. Sometimes you lose when you gamble, especially when free agents do half as good as expected.

What he said. Good. 

Listen people. The team should improve by just doing nothing at all. Players will come back healthy, and some others will improve because they're more experienced.

 

This offseason is important but Ozzie is going nowhere. 

[PolishRifle]

8 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Now, this strategy is a gamble and requires a bit of luck. Last off season, Ozzie gambled on our secondary being healthy. He gambled on Elam staying healthy and improving.

If Matt Elam can't turn things around he's officially a bust, imho. Matt and Terrance Brooks, a 1st round and 3rd round draft pick, were supposed to shore up the safety position. I don't know, if that's much of a gamble and not more of a failure of Ozzie's part to draft the right guys. We did invest alot into our secondary without getting much in return.

Edited January 26, 2016 by PolishRifle

[PolishRifle]

6 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

What he said. Good. 

Listen people. The team should improve by just doing nothing at all. Players will come back healthy, and some others will improve because they're more experienced.

 

This offseason is important but Ozzie is going nowhere. 

I never said "fire Ozzie", I do think however, that alot of what went wrong with our season this year has to do with the front office.

[Deflated Football]

2 minutes ago, PolishRifle said:

If Matt Elam can't turn things around he's officially a bust, imho. Matt and Terrance Brooks, a 1st round and 3rd round draft pick, were supposed to shore up the safety position. I don't know, if that's much of a gamble and not more of a failure of Ozzie's part to draft the right guys. We did invest alot into our secondary without getting much in return.

Elam IS a bust. Low football IQ, hands made of stone, can't tackle, etc. For whatever reason, Brooks isn't seeing the field and that's annoying with how athletic he is. Lewis was a bad signing as well and now we're moving Webb to FS because of all this. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

7 minutes ago, PolishRifle said:

If Matt Elam can't turn things around he's officially a bust, imho. Matt and Terrance Brooks, a 1st round and 3rd round draft pick, were supposed to shore up the safety position. I don't know, if that's much of a gamble and not more of a failure of Ozzie's part to draft the right guys. We did invest alot into our secondary without getting much in return.

If you gamble and fail it's still a gamble. And even then he got Will Hill who's pretty damn good if you ask me. So yeah, not too mad about Elam after that. 

 

And I wasn't directing the firing thing at you. There are several on the boards who want him gone after this season. Not happening

[The Raven]

9 minutes ago, PolishRifle said:

If Matt Elam can't turn things around he's officially a bust, imho. Matt and Terrance Brooks, a 1st round and 3rd round draft pick, were supposed to shore up the safety position. I don't know, if that's much of a gamble and not more of a failure of Ozzie's part to draft the right guys. We did invest alot into our secondary without getting much in return.

 

Remember that DBs, especially safeties, are rarely solid starters in their first or even second years. It's the third season when DBs start to actually put everything together, and Elam actually looked pretty good - better than he's ever looked - in the preseason before he got hurt. As for Brooks, I feel like he's been hurt more than he's been healthy so far in his career, but when he's been on the field, he's shown big flashes to me. 

This season will show a lot about Elam and Brooks. It's a bummer that they haven't done anything yet, but it's pretty rare for safeties to be that good right off the bat.

[PolishRifle]

4 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

Elam IS a bust. Low football IQ, hands made of stone, can't tackle, etc. For whatever reason, Brooks isn't seeing the field and that's annoying with how athletic he is. Lewis was a bad signing as well and now we're moving Webb to FS because of all this. 

I'd give Brooks some time, still. Just because he's new to this league, but I am done with Elam, also. Will Hill is the only bright spot in our secondary last season (I hope we hold on to him). I hope Jimmy will come back strong next year. But yeah, we invested alot into that unit and got nothing in return.

[edthehead]

Oz had a great system and it work-ed (past tense)

the old way of staying put and drafting the BPA , well it is a little antiquated, still works. 

I think we need to stop hording pics and maneuver/work the draft.

we have so many players/coaches in the league and it is a copycat league,

OZ is great at moving around,so move back move up but DO NOT stay put,

IN OZ WE TRUST,

[ellicottraven]

Leave Ozzie and Eric DeCosta alone for now. This past season was an anomaly for various reasons, notwithstanding injuries to key starters. I do believe this year's draft will be the bell weather draft for the Ravens going forward. What they do with drafting quality players that are difference makers in this draft will tell us a lot about our scouts and front office decision making. With regard to free agency, we've been somewhat shy and too concerned with comp picks. It almost seems like comp picks drive our free agency decisions and not the quality of the roster itself. But, the calculus that the Ravens are employing here is obvious. More draft picks mean they're more likely statistically to land good to great players. But, that is definitely a gamble and puts the onus on coaching. So, let's wait and see. 

[Clmraven]

For what it's worth, it's been said DeCosta has been running the draft in recent years. And I don't think our drafts have been that bad, you look at 2013 and think of it as a huge failure because so far it looks like we missed on our 1st and 2nd rounder, but then you look at guys like B Williams, Wagner and Jensen and it doesn't look that bad, if we need to change anything it's how we evaluate higher rated prospects, because we are getting a lot of solid players in the first 2 rounds but missing out on the real elite guys, and I don't buy the whole "it's because we pick so late all the time" thing, I don't care if we're picking at #1 or #32 it's their job to find the best guy available.

[GrimCoconut]

If I ever get a free moment I'm going to look at the areas of the country where we seem to have the most misses to see if there's a correlation between a certain scout or whether it's just Ozzie and co. I'm curious.

[RavensFanMania]

17 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

If I ever get a free moment I'm going to look at the areas of the country where we seem to have the most misses to see if there's a correlation between a certain scout or whether it's just Ozzie and co. I'm curious.

Now that would be interesting to see.  I'm a big Ozzie and Decosta fan and feel this year will be an anomaly and all Ravens fans will notice next year when we are competing for the playoffs and possibly the division. 

 

Go Ravens

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

To prove Ozzie is falling off still requires someone to do a comparison of other GM's in the league, their draft picks year-over-year, relative to draft position, and FA acquisitions year-over-year and stack them side-by-side with Ozzies.

 

How many solid starters? How many Pro-Bowls? Success in early rounds and success in later rounds (obviously bonus points for finding contributors in later rounds, and bargain FA). 

 

Until someone does this and presents a valid argument - I'm a little tired of the "discussion." Oz may not be having Ogden, Ray Lewis drafts every year (the expectation that sets is a little ridiculous anyways) but he's still doing solid, well above league average and among league elite type personnel work.

[usmccharles]

The scouts have to take some of the blame as well.  They are the ones who go and look at these players and report their findings to Ozzie.   Also,  has t it been discussed decosta has been doing most of the picks lately? Oz's job is secureAnd you have to remember we have been picking kid 20s for 8 years minus one... And we got mosely.

[PolishRifle]

16 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

The scouts have to take some of the blame as well.  They are the ones who go and look at these players and report their findings to Ozzie.   Also,  has t it been discussed decosta has been doing most of the picks lately? Oz's job is secureAnd you have to remember we have been picking kid 20s for 8 years minus one... And we got mosely.

Sry, but picking in the 20s consistently for the last 8 years or so should not be an excuse for any good GM (especially a great one). Antonio Brown was picked in round 6. If Oz is great, draft position doesn't matter. There is plenty of great talent to be found past the 1st round.

I remember how we laughed at the Cowboys, when Jerry picked up a Center and we got Elam? Foolish old Jerry.

Edited January 26, 2016 by PolishRifle

[usmccharles]

7 minutes ago, PolishRifle said:

Sry, but picking in the 20s consistently for the last 8 years or so should not be an excuse for any good GM (especially a great one). Antonio Brown was picked in round 6. If Oz is great, draft position doesn't matter. There is plenty of great talent to be found past the 1st round.

I remember how we laughed at the Cowboys, when Jerry picked up a Center and we got Elam? Foolish old Jerry.

Wasn't really making excuse,  just stating the obvious 

[allblackraven]

15 minutes ago, PolishRifle said:

Sry, but picking in the 20s consistently for the last 8 years or so should not be an excuse for any good GM (especially a great one). Antonio Brown was picked in round 6. If Oz is great, draft position doesn't matter. There is plenty of great talent to be found past the 1st round.

I remember how we laughed at the Cowboys, when Jerry picked up a Center and we got Elam? Foolish old Jerry.

Antonio Brown is not the greatest example, since entire league seems to have missed on him. Also, Ozzie is not the one doing the scouting, so if AB wasn't on the list of 250-300 players provided by our scouting team, how was Ozzie supposed to evaluate him?

There was nothing wrong with picking Elam at 32. His college tape was pretty good.

[hawkprey]

How a player turns out is really pretty random. Ozzie and crew haven't necessarily had a better track record than anyone else.

[RaineV1]

Ozzie still has a lot more hits than misses, which is why the Ravens have been one of the most consistently good teams since 2000.

[PurpleCity5]

I don't think he has lost his touch at all but there have been some things in the past that has hurt us, some out of them out of his power, some that are in his power. I do think Ozzie and the F.O have some work to do. 

[K-Dog]

8 hours ago, January J said:

No.

Well said.

[Sizzlebshu]

8 hours ago, PolishRifle said:

Alot of people complain about Pees, Harbs, Trestman or Flacco, but what team has Baltimore surrounded our coaching staff and our franchise QB with? If you look at the teams, that went to the Superbowl, you see alot of great picks in the draft (Panthers) and alot of activity in FA (Broncos). Ever since we lost of our keyplayers to retirement after the 2012 season, we didn't draft many difference makers outside of CJ Mosley. Instead we still rely on veteran players to carry the team. Well, we got to see what happens, when we lose Sizzle and Joe. It didn't look good.

Should we start to hold Oz accountable for drafting alot of solid, but not great players  and not making enough splash moves in FA? I love Ozzie and he has been a great GM, but hasn't he lived off past reputation in the last couple years?

I'm in alot of trouble right now, I know, but I feel like this topic is worth discussing.

Let's make this the most negged post of all time guys. 

 

Seriously this question gets asked every single year. 

[Sizzlebshu]

4 hours ago, PolishRifle said:

Sry, but picking in the 20s consistently for the last 8 years or so should not be an excuse for any good GM (especially a great one). Antonio Brown was picked in round 6. If Oz is great, draft position doesn't matter. There is plenty of great talent to be found past the 1st round.

I remember how we laughed at the Cowboys, when Jerry picked up a Center and we got Elam? Foolish old Jerry.

Picking in the 20's means this team is making playoffs every year and consequently Ozzie is loading the roster with enough talent to be successful in getting there and once there making a run. So by definition it is a fantastic excuse. There are not always 32 1st round talent caliber players in a draft. 

Edited January 27, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[ALPHA]

He hasn't lost his touch, luck plays a bigger part in a good or bad draft and every draft has been great value out of the gate. You can't blame a GM for a players lack of progression.

Edited January 27, 2016 by ALPHA

[law215]

I think to say OZ has lost his touch is probably overboard. However, the proof of poor draft picks is just too obvious to ignore. Ravens have failed to add a #1 receiver since 1996 so no excuses on the position of the draft. Also, the number of 1st or 2nd round picks that he was either unable to retain or under achieved can't be ignored. Some just seemed like bad luck like Kindle a 2nd round pick. Who knows what he would be if not for the accident.  Oher drafted in 2009 and gone by 2013 is a big miss, Elam looks terrible, Cody and Upshaw are 2 Alabama guys that under achieved for 2nd round, using a 4th round pick on a FB when Joe needs target and CB needed depth. Playing hardball and letting players go without successfully replacing and . Is Monroe much better than Oher who is starting in the Superbowl, how about Jah Reid on Kansas City, Is Lewis better than Stewart for the Broncos.

Add to that the number of years of dead money and cap woes. This offseason the pressure is on OZ and while Steve would never fire him and rightfully so, criticism from fans and media justified.

[52520Andrew]

11 hours ago, The Raven said:

I don't think Ozzie has lost his touch, but I do think that he is most responsible for the problems of this past season.

 

Ozzie has to draft solid players, not great ones, because of where we pick in the draft. And if you look around the league at the top teams, they do the same thing. The Patriots, the Packers, and yes, the Steelers tend to pick solid players that do their job and play a role. That's what you HAVE TO DO as a GM when you're always cap-strapped and picking 26-32. It's not like Ozzie can do anything about it. What has made the Patriots great every year is Bill Belichick's ability to find solid players that do their job and don't make mistakes. You don't need play makers to win games. you need players that do their job and don't make mistakes. The Patriots are a perfect example of that. You have to rely on role players who don't make mistakes. BB gets the most out of his guys.

 

Now, this strategy is a gamble and requires a bit of luck. Last off season, Ozzie gambled on our secondary being healthy. He gambled on Elam staying healthy and improving. He gambled on Kyle Arrington, and Kendrick Lewis filling holes we had. If our corners stayed healthy, if Elam didn't get hurt, if Arrington did as well as expected, and if Kendrick Lewis didn't completely crap the bed every chance he had, this would have been a good secondary.  He also gambled on the pass rushers being adequate. He probably expected more out of Dumervil, Tim Jernigan, and even Upshaw. He probably thought Carl Davis would have played better than he did. He didn't plan on Suggs getting hurt. If our pass rush package had Suggs, Dumervil, Jernigan, and Zadarius, as planned, we would have been a hell of a lot better.

 

If you look at Ozzie's draft picks, they've been good. He's picked quality players. But in focusing on the offense in the last draft, he probably didn't get the defense enough firepower. Our bad season doesn't mean Ozzie had a bad draft.  For the most part, all of our draft picks contributed this year, with the exception of you know who and Trey Walker. I would re-do that draft today, only changing the Walker pick. It was a good class. 

 

TL;DR? Ozzie has to gamble because of a tight cap and picking late. He has to rely on finding role players to win games. Sometimes you lose when you gamble, especially when free agents do half as good as expected.

Very well put. We may have not drafted a Pro Bowl player since 2008(excluding Mosely) but we have been drafting late every single round except when we took Mosely. I don't think that is coincidence but at the same time, this puts a lot of pressure on our guys to get this pick at #6 right. I feel Ozzie has done a very solid job with this team given the position it was in after we won the Super Bowl and since then. We have had some misses for sure but everyone does. This is the year I feel where the pressure will be on him to hit with FA and these high picks.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Didn't Biscotti say that Decosta has taken over the draft the past few seasons in the season end review?Maybe that's part of the reason why we've had drafts like the 2013 one.On the other hand though,I do think that some of the defensive players we've drafted lately would've turned out better if we had a better DC.If we would've drafted Tyrann Mathieu and the Cardinals drafted Elam,Elam would be a stud right now and Mathieu would look like Elam.Also,CJ Mosley would be playing like Luke Kuechly if we had a better DC.Rex made his guys look like superstars.Mattison took the same group Rex had and had them looking weak.Pagano took the same group Mattison had and turned into a shut down defense the next year.Peas took the same group Pagano had and it's never been the same since.If we can find the next Rex/Pagano our talent will play better.It's not all about the talent that's been drafted and signed.WE HAVE THE TALENT.Peas is just making everyone Ozzie and Decosta bring in look like the wrong move.