Tyrod Pro Bowl = Comp Pick? (Merged)

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, B-more Ravor said:

Won't much matter though, since both Tyrod and Stewart will likely be 7ths either way, so whichever one cancels Lewis, it would only likely mean a higher 7th.

Not necessarily. It's certainly possible Stewart gets us a 6th due to his contract combined with playing time and him making the postseason. Those are both factors involved in compensatory pick compensation.

[B-more Ravor]

14 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Not necessarily. It's certainly possible Stewart gets us a 6th due to his contract combined with playing time and him making the postseason. Those are both factors involved in compensatory pick compensation.

Given the size of the contract, I think it would be quite a jump for Stewart to get all the way up into the 6th round (he played in 77% of the D snaps for Denver according to FO, which is substantial, but not overwhelming either), but with Comp picks, I've learned to "never say never".

And, while playing time certainly is a factor, I've never seen anything to indicate that making the post-season is considered (especially since that is a team accomplishment, not a player accomplishment).  "Post-season honors" is a category, but that deals with awards, not the player's team advancing to the post-season.

[GrimCoconut]

13 minutes ago, B-more Ravor said:

Given the size of the contract, I think it would be quite a jump for Stewart to get all the way up into the 6th round (he played in 77% of the D snaps for Denver according to FO, which is substantial, but not overwhelming either), but with Comp picks, I've learned to "never say never".

And, while playing time certainly is a factor, I've never seen anything to indicate that making the post-season is considered (especially since that is a team accomplishment, not a player accomplishment).  "Post-season honors" is a category, but that deals with awards, not the player's team advancing to the post-season.

Bad explanation on my part, but I was referring the contract and playing time factors. Stewart making the postseason factors in due to games started, etc. He only played in two, maybe three if he's good to go in the Super Bowl. 

Hopefully that clarifies my poor original representation. Btw that's not sarcasm. I feel like it sounds that way. Just want to make that clear.

 

Btw, I think Stewart or Taylor get us a 6th or 7th max, respectively speaking. That's the best case scenario imo. I think Stewart awards us a higher pick since he had more games started and a higher contract and his team made the playoffs, but I didn't know his snap count was perhaps less. Didn't Taylor play more than 80% of the snaps?

Edited January 28, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[GrimCoconut]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean, that's great and all, but its what like a 7th?

As much as we like to pretend we are great later in the draft (which we are), the 7th round is pretty much excluded from that.

Deangelo Tyson and Michael Campanaro are probably our best 7th round picks in franchise history to be honest. That's not great.

So nice to get, but ultimately irrelevant in my opinion.

I wouldn't call it totally irrelevant. Yes, you're right, but it does give us a chance at getting the rights to the UDFA of our choice. That's not a bad thing. Some UDFAs have really panned out.

[52520Andrew]

I said I would be happy with a 7th and am sticking to it. May not amount to anything but you never know for sure and that holds true for any pick.

[redrum52]

4 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean, that's great and all, but its what like a 7th?

As much as we like to pretend we are great later in the draft (which we are), the 7th round is pretty much excluded from that.

Deangelo Tyson and Michael Campanaro are probably our best 7th round picks in franchise history to be honest. That's not great.

So nice to get, but ultimately irrelevant in my opinion.

Trade bait to move up

[rmcjacket23]

19 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

Trade bait to move up

Can't trade comp picks this year though, so that pick in particular won't help us make a trade.

[B-more Ravor]

2 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

Bad explanation on my part, but I was referring the contract and playing time factors. Stewart making the postseason factors in due to games started, etc. He only played in two, maybe three if he's good to go in the Super Bowl. 

Hopefully that clarifies my poor original representation. Btw that's not sarcasm. I feel like it sounds that way. Just want to make that clear.

 

Btw, I think Stewart or Taylor get us a 6th or 7th max, respectively speaking. That's the best case scenario imo. I think Stewart awards us a higher pick since he had more games started and a higher contract and his team made the playoffs, but I didn't know his snap count was perhaps less. Didn't Taylor play more than 80% of the snaps?

Yes, Tyrod played over 85% of the offensive snaps, so that's definitely in favor of pushing him up to get a Comp.

As far as Stewart does, I still don't think starts in the post season factor in.  I'm pretty certain (or, as least, as certain as I can be when it comes to Comp picks) that only his regular season starts and snaps count for the Comp pick formula.  I don't think post-season has any bearing at all.

But, we shall see.......as I said above I'll never say never when it comes to Comps.

Edited January 28, 2016 by B-more Ravor

[B-more Ravor]

2 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I wouldn't call it totally irrelevant. Yes, you're right, but it does give us a chance at getting the rights to the UDFA of our choice. That's not a bad thing. Some UDFAs have really panned out.

Yup, allows them to draft a guy they consider to be a priority UDFA instead of having to bid for him and compete against other teams to sign him - especially since the Ravens have never been big spenders on UDFA bonuses.

[redrum52]

30 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Can't trade comp picks this year though, so that pick in particular won't help us make a trade.

Ok.  My bad.  Didn't realize that.

[GrimCoconut]

22 minutes ago, B-more Ravor said:

Yes, Tyrod played over 85% of the offensive snaps, so that's definitely in favor of pushing him up to get a Comp.

As far as Stewart does, I still don't think starts in the post season factor in.  I'm pretty certain (or, as least, as certain as I can be when it comes to Comp picks) that only his regular season starts and snaps count for the Comp pick formula.  I don't think post-season has any bearing at all.

But, we shall see.......as I said above I'll never say never when it comes to Comps.

Yeah, I don't think either of us would be mad being wrong or right about any of it if it ends up in favor of the Ravens. I don't see Taylor being the better comp, but as I said before nobody really knows this formula. I think Ozzie does, though. Lol. 

[GrimCoconut]

Every time I read this thread's title I keep thinking it says a 4th as in a 4th round compensatory pick. Lol

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

If we get another pick that's great.

[rmcjacket23]

21 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Every time I read this thread's title I keep thinking it says a 4th as in a 4th round compensatory pick. Lol

Yeah, it threw me off too. 

[Wildabeast88]

8 hours ago, Sunday QB said:

I would hope that a starting QB would get us at least a 3rd round comp pick.

It's based mostly on salary with Detroit getting a 3rd for Suh the Pats a 3rd for Revis

[B-more Ravor]

2 hours ago, Wildabeast88 said:

It's based mostly on salary with Detroit getting a 3rd for Suh the Pats a 3rd for Revis

Exactly.  The contract is just way too little low to garner anywhere near a 3rd.

[Wildabeast88]

12 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

I don't know what happened to my original post on the matter but it does look like we'll get a 4th Comp Pick for Tyrod Taylor.

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/01/28/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/ravens-to-receive-4-compensatory-picks/

 

Just checking but is that official because overthecap.com was showing that us signing Lewis is why we were only getting 3 because he cancelled out Stewart who's contract was higher than Tyrod 

[ellicottraven]

7 minutes ago, Wildabeast88 said:

Just checking but is that official because overthecap.com was showing that us signing Lewis is why we were only getting 3 because he cancelled out Stewart who's contract was higher than Tyrod 

Thanks. After reading the entire article although a Ravens source said they expected to get a comp pick for Taylor the details are somewhat murky. So, I'm going to assume we'll get 3 and be happily surprised when we land one for Taylor!

[Wildabeast88]

17 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Thanks. After reading the entire article although a Ravens source said they expected to get a comp pick for Taylor the details are somewhat murky. So, I'm going to assume we'll get 3 and be happily surprised when we land one for Taylor!

Ok cool I wasn't totally sure but usually overthecap is pretty accurate but I to agree with others who are saying a starting QB should be worth more but even the 1mil in incentives doesn't put him over the threshold 

[hn68wb4]

I'm more than happy to have a late 7th added to the pile. Who knows what'll happen on draft day? Guys tumble all the time for various reason, having this late pick gives us a priority FA that we won't have to bid for. I'm sure Ozzie and co. will find the perfect guy considering we've had an UDFA make the final for how many years in a row? and this time we can choose whoever we want unlike sifting through and bidding on UDFAs.

 

Not to mention the article also talks about us maybe still getting a conditional 7th for the Easton trade but we'll have to wait on that one.

Edited January 29, 2016 by hn68wb4

[52liveforever]

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 11:40 AM, RavensFanMania said:

the Pro Bowl has gone from bad to worse under Goodell.  It should have stayed after the SB and AFC vs. NFC format. 

 

I think itd be cool to do something similar to what the NHL is doing this year. Have division all star teams and do like a 7 on 7 tournament.

[arnie_uk]

17 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

I don't know what happened to my original post on the matter but it does look like we'll get a 4th Comp Pick for Tyrod Taylor.

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/01/28/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/ravens-to-receive-4-compensatory-picks/

 

To the draft thread where it belongs I'd reckon

[Halshayeji]

8 hours ago, Wildabeast88 said:

It's based mostly on salary with Detroit getting a 3rd for Suh the Pats a 3rd for Revis

 

I still think that Revis deal was bogus and can't believe the NFL allows that to happen. The pats virtually signed him on a 2 year deal that allows them to pay the guy 5 mil more than he counted against the cap the first year and then get a comp pick instead of swallowing that extra 5 mil the second year.

[rmcjacket23]

4 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

 

I still think that Revis deal was bogus and can't believe the NFL allows that to happen. The pats virtually signed him on a 2 year deal that allows them to pay the guy 5 mil more than he counted against the cap the first year and then get a comp pick instead of swallowing that extra 5 mil the second year.

Wasn't really that odd of a deal though. The fact that they paid him more than what his cap figure was doesn't matter because most contracts are like that. Joe got paid $30M in 2013 and his cap hit was under $7M. Close to the same thing in 2014. 

His contract just had basically no guaranteed money after year 1, so it was easy to get out from under.

Keep in mind also that Revis did count $5M against the Pats salary cap in 2015, so its not like they got off that easy in the deal.

[Halshayeji]

On 1/29/2016 at 5:02 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

Wasn't really that odd of a deal though. The fact that they paid him more than what his cap figure was doesn't matter because most contracts are like that. Joe got paid $30M in 2013 and his cap hit was under $7M. Close to the same thing in 2014. 

His contract just had basically no guaranteed money after year 1, so it was easy to get out from under.

Keep in mind also that Revis did count $5M against the Pats salary cap in 2015, so its not like they got off that easy in the deal.

The cap hit is only fair because you did use that 5 mil lol

What I really can't get over is the comp pick. I thought it was for players outplaying their rookie deals and teams getting something instead of nothing when they cant afford to keep a player they groomed. In Revis case. The Pats couldn't afford him year one so they played with numbers year one and we let that go because heck they paid the price next year. To get compensated with a 3rd rounder the following year blows my mind. The only reason they had that option was because they knew they couldn't afford him. Its not like the Pats drafted or groomed him. They stole him off the street with a "squeeze me in the cap" deal then get compensated for losing him.

 

When you rent a car, you fill it up with gas and give it back. Don't go asking for the insurance you payed back lol

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, Halshayeji said:

The cap hit is only fair because you did use that 5 mil lol

What I really can't get over is the comp pick. I thought it was for players outplaying their rookie deals and teams getting something instead of nothing when they cant afford to keep a player they groomed. In Revis case. The Pats couldn't afford him year one so they played with numbers year one and we let that go because heck they paid the price next year. To get compensated with a 3rd rounder the following year blows my mind. The only reason they had that option was because they knew they couldn't afford him. Its not like the Pats drafted or groomed him. They stole him off the street with a "squeeze me in the cap" deal then get compensated for losing him.

 

When you rent a car, you fill it up with gas and give it back. Don't go asking for the insurance you payed back lol

But they didn't "play with the cap" any more than the Ravens do annually or any other team does. What REALLY happened is Revis was coming back from an ACL tear and the Patriots signed him to a one year deal with a team option for year 2 at $20M. They couldn't afford it so they declined it. Fairly standard. Deal benefited both sides tremendously.

As for comp picks, has nothing to do with rookie deals. Has to do with net losses of unrestricted FAs. While a lot of them are for rookie deals expiring, it's not a requirement.

Patriots followed all the rules and played it correctly. Everybody benefited from it.

[GrimCoconut]

@Halshayeji and @rmcjacket23

Honestly, in reference to what the Patriots did with Revis, if Ozzie did it we'd laud him for it and call him a genius. It's an unfair double standard to throw eggs at the Patriots and show sour grapes, which is what this sounds like, whether or not it is [sour grapes].

I think we even did this very thing ourselves with McClain (traded for a pick) & especially Redding, whose career rejuvenated here and ended up as a comp pick. We didn't develop him at all but he was a comp for us 

[52liveforever]

So I see the two picks that people don't like. First one is Tread. I don't like it either really. At this moment though I can see why Ozzie would be excited to grab him. Many others I would like more, but this I mocked for how I might see through ozzies eyes. Hopefully in this scenario like many of you think, I am wrong. The second is Striker. I don't make the Buchanon pick so much because of style of play but size. I think Striker has potential to be a very good ILB. It would be a project, but a round four project player at ILB in my mind isn't so bad since we come away with a few. What draws me to striker is his athleticism and pass rushing. I honestly didn't think too much of him until recently so I understand the negativity in his regards.

[Halshayeji]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

But they didn't "play with the cap" any more than the Ravens do annually or any other team does. What REALLY happened is Revis was coming back from an ACL tear and the Patriots signed him to a one year deal with a team option for year 2 at $20M. They couldn't afford it so they declined it. Fairly standard. Deal benefited both sides tremendously.

As for comp picks, has nothing to do with rookie deals. Has to do with net losses of unrestricted FAs. While a lot of them are for rookie deals expiring, it's not a requirement.

Patriots followed all the rules and played it correctly. Everybody benefited from it.

Revis wasn't coming off an ACL tear, that was the year prior when he signed with the bucs.

What I meant with the option is that. The pats decided to decline it so why should they get rewarded?

[Willbacker]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 9:02 AM, rmcjacket23 said:

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

But they didn't "play with the cap" any more than the Ravens do annually or any other team does. What REALLY happened is Revis was coming back from an ACL tear and the Patriots signed him to a one year deal with a team option for year 2 at $20M. They couldn't afford it so they declined it. Fairly standard. Deal benefited both sides tremendously.

As for comp picks, has nothing to do with rookie deals. Has to do with net losses of unrestricted FAs. While a lot of them are for rookie deals expiring, it's not a requirement.

Patriots followed all the rules and played it correctly. Everybody benefited from it.

It does kinda stink that you can sign a player to a 1 yr deal and get a comp. Is it certain they'll get a comp?

2 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

@Halshayeji and @rmcjacket23

Honestly, in reference to what the Patriots did with Revis, if Ozzie did it we'd laud him for it and call him a genius. It's an unfair double standard to throw eggs at the Patriots and show sour grapes, which is what this sounds like, whether or not it is [sour grapes].

I think we even did this very thing ourselves with McClain (traded for a pick) & especially Redding, whose career rejuvenated here and ended up as a comp pick. We didn't develop him at all but he was a comp for us 

Redding was at least with us for 3 yrs and played the full duration of his contract.

2 hours ago, 52liveforever said:

So I see the two picks that people don't like. First one is Tread. I don't like it either really. At this moment though I can see why Ozzie would be excited to grab him. Many others I would like more, but this I mocked for how I might see through ozzies eyes. Hopefully in this scenario like many of you think, I am wrong. The second is Striker. I don't make the Buchanon pick so much because of style of play but size. I think Striker has potential to be a very good ILB. It would be a project, but a round four project player at ILB in my mind isn't so bad since we come away with a few. What draws me to striker is his athleticism and pass rushing. I honestly didn't think too much of him until recently so I understand the negativity in his regards.

I think they're projecting Striker as an OLB but don't quote me please lol. Whats great about him is that I believe he's a good coverage LB which we sorely need. Our LB coverage is horrible. I personally like Scooby Wright and Matakavich as possible inside options.

1 hour ago, Halshayeji said:

Revis wasn't coming off an ACL tear, that was the year prior when he signed with the bucs.

What I meant with the option is that. The pats decided to decline it so why should they get rewarded?

I agree with you but you know they the "masters of the rulebook".