Senior Bowl Thread 2016

[ellicottraven]

8 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Noah Spence has become khalil Mack and I fully agree with it lol. 

 

I'd take him at 6th in a heartbeat. Its now between spence, ramsey, and buckner for me.

After getting nailed by Noah Spence, Gus Bradley may have designs on him! Which can only mean we will either get Buckner or Ramsey for sure.

[Wildabeast88]

8 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

It's certainly a valid argument. There's that guy last year, I think Nate Bell was his name or something? He was a college QB who switched to CB or TE. I seem to recall two college QB switching to TE and CB, although I can't recall who. 

It certainly doesn't always work, but if we're talking taking him in the fourth round then it may very well be worth it, depending.

Blake Bell from Oklahoma was the other guy with Marshall I was hearing experts saying Miller could go as hI as top of he 2nd

[Wildabeast88]

7 hours ago, Drew P said:

Is this guy worthy of a top ten pick? He's a drug addict off the field. On the field he is a one trick pony basically DOOM 2.0. I dont think the Ravens can gamble on this guy at #6 they need an immediate impact on early downs type of player. Hopefully they dont visit the top ten ever again im my life so they got to make the most of it.

While at Ohio St he was thought of as better than Bosa certainly not a one trick pony by all accounts he's been clean for nearly 2 years

[Wildabeast88]

4 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Miller has shown incredibly refined footwork and he's apparently shooting for a 4.28 40 yard dash. He should kill the 40 and the cone drills/shuttle drills. 

 

However, one thing to remember about these SENIOR Bowl practices is that many of the top receivers in the country (Treadwell, Coleman, Boyd, Fuller) and corners (Hargreaves, Ramsey, Alexander, Fuller, Apple) are not there to compare him against or to cover him.

 

I'm extremely excited for how well he's doing, but he's still going to have to show a way to show up against the top corners in the nation and prove he can play against the best.

I think he can run that was running 4.4 at 230 as a QB he's down to 204

[GrimCoconut]

6 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Well, when I heard someone call him this year's Khalil Mack, I think it raised some valid questions

Yeah, I'm not sure about that comp. 

35 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

After getting nailed by Noah Spence, Gus Bradley may have designs on him! Which can only mean we will either get Buckner or Ramsey for sure.

I'm not sure that really makes him select him, one way or another. Lol

[JoeyFlex5]

8 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Well, when I heard someone call him this year's Khalil Mack, I think it raised some valid questions

I said that referring to the rise I think he is about to see. I mean at this time 2 years ago did anybody think Mack was going 4th? Hell there are a lot of teams that said they wouldve taken him first overall, not that I think he's being regarded THAT highly I just think the rise is comparable

[BmoreBird22]

4 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I said that referring to the rise I think he is about to see. I mean at this time 2 years ago did anybody think Mack was going 4th? Hell there are a lot of teams that said they wouldve taken him first overall, not that I think he's being regarded THAT highly I just think the rise is comparable

Got it, got it. I still have enough concerns that I think the Ravens can trade back, but we'll see

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Got it, got it. I still have enough concerns that I think the Ravens can trade back, but we'll see

I don't see enough weakness in his game personally, if you have a freak athlete like that at OLB who isnt soft by any means and plays with solid hand and footwork, then I think everything falls into place. No rookie edge rusher will be suggs caliber against the run as well.

[BmoreBird22]

3 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I don't see enough weakness in his game personally, if you have a freak athlete like that at OLB who isnt soft by any means and plays with solid hand and footwork, then I think everything falls into place. No rookie edge rusher will be suggs caliber against the run as well.

But being that poor against the run is a significant weakness.

And no, it's probably unfair to expect every edge player to be Suggs caliber against the run, even though Mack and Bosa were/are very good edge defenders and a lot more well rounded. I was only seven eight at the time that Suggs was drafted, so I'm can't say with certainty just how good he was, but everything I've read suggests he was a pretty good force against the run, being able to hold his own and collapse his side, but also play with the ability to chase down plays from the backside. Suggs also had unquestioned power at the point of attack.

 

I watched three games (which I think is a minimum to make a fair assessment) instead of just relying on heresay and he's just bad against the run. He's certainly extremely active and you really have to love that he will never give up on a play, no matter where on the field it is, but I saw so often that when the team ran at him, he was getting pushed four, five yards back or just getting knocked flat.

I also think he could stand to have heavier hands and that his hand usage needs refinement. He's no Joey Bosa with his hands.

 

Right now, I just see too many questions. I'll elaborate more, but I want to know what people see in him that makes him so alluring at sixth overall.

[January J]

19 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Noah Spence has become khalil Mack and I fully agree with it lol. 

 

I'd take him at 6th in a heartbeat. Its now between spence, ramsey, and buckner for me.

Agreed. 

Wentz has skyrocketed up most ppls boards and has a lot of hype around him now..and I only expect that to increase further. I don't think jerry and the Cowboys will be able to pass it up, bc they don't believe they will be picking this high again for awhile. This will inevitably push Buckner down to us, bc the jags will be taking Ramsey. It has to be between Buckner or spence.  If the Rams make a play for lynch and try to jump San Fran hopefully we can do that and still be in range for spence. If hes gone maybe we should just take jaylon smith . Ideally San Fran will counter the Rams and we can swap with them and take spence..but I'm not so sure they want a qb round 1.

[Jaybirds]

27 minutes ago, January J said:

Agreed. 

Wentz has skyrocketed up most ppls boards and has a lot of hype around him now..and I only expect that to increase further. I don't think jerry and the Cowboys will be able to pass it up, bc they don't believe they will be picking this high again for awhile. This will inevitably push Buckner down to us, bc the jags will be taking Ramsey. It has to be between Buckner or spence.  If the Rams make a play for lynch and try to jump San Fran hopefully we can do that and still be in range for spence. If hes gone maybe we should just take jaylon smith . Ideally San Fran will counter the Rams and we can swap with them and take spence..but I'm not so sure they want a qb round 1.

That last statement:  I have heard that the 49ers gift shop had all the Kaepernick jerseys at discount prices this winter.  Then they all skyrocketed back up to full price just a few hours after Chip Kelly was announced as the new coach.  I think someone from ESPN tweeted about it. 

Anecdotal at best.  But I don't think anyone is forecasting them to be in the QB market anymore in mock drafts, either. 

[ALI624]

So how many guys are we going to get from the Senior Bowl:

 

Spence- I have come around on him I understand he has a past, but from all accounts he has cleaned up his life(Tyrann Mathieu anyone.)  Yes he was taken in the 3rd round but he also was fresh off a suspension unlike Spence and we are not strangers to taking a player with a questionable past.  Ideally unless he has an incredible combine and skyrockets up the draft board I would love to move down to the Rams pick and pick up their 2 2nds and 1st next year.If not I would not complain if we took him at 6.

 

Shepard or Miller- both look good hopefully in the 3rd if they are there and we don't pick up a WR in the 2nd.

Cyrus Jones- I really like him I know he is undersized, but I like his instincts and desire. 4th round maybe.

Dahl- Looked good maybe the 3rd or 4th.

 

I am sure there are many others, but hopefully we can grab a few of these guys.

 

[Drew P]

13 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

drug addict is quite the overstatement for a kid who is nearly 2 years removed from his dismissal and has made great strides since then to mature as a person, he got busted twice taking a party drug, he was a college kid making bad decisions, he paid the price, and has paid his dues the long and hard way and has not given anybody a reason to call him a "drug addict". 

 

also i dont see doom 2.0, he is much more talented than that and plays with a much more desirable skillset. he is the best 3-4olb in this class and i dont think anyone else is close, and its a pretty widely shared sentiment.

AND he was arrested for public intoxication way back when in 2015...Just saying, character concerns with the Ravens are probably at a heightened level.

[GrimCoconut]

3 minutes ago, Drew P said:

AND he was arrested for public intoxication way back when in 2015...Just saying, character concerns with the Ravens are probably at a heightened level.

We wanted Peters based off rumors, who had character concerns himself due to a certain coaching incident. 

[Drew P]

12 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

We wanted Peters based off rumors, who had character concerns himself due to a certain coaching incident. 

Rumors are quite different than facts

[Jaybirds]

20 minutes ago, Drew P said:

Rumors are quite different than facts

I'm not sure why you're worried about a guy drinking beer outside. 

[BmoreBird22]

32 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

We wanted Peters based off rumors, who had character concerns himself due to a certain coaching incident. 

I'm going to quote you here for the discussion on Spence since this is the appropriate thread, not the Myles Jack thread.
 

But yes, Spence is incredibly quick off the line, showing great initial burst and a great first step to get up the field. He also has really good bend, an amazing shoulder dip, and great lateral quickness to get around the edge. He also really uses a rip move well to disengage when he reaches the end of his arc, which he rarely overruns. 
 

However, that's about all I've really seen from him as a pass rusher. He uses his rip move so effectively because he was able to keep tackles off of his frame, but what happens when longer and more refined tackles than those he faced at EKU (Joe Thomas, Andrew Whitworth four times a year?) are able to get their hands in his pads? He doesn't have that great of functional strength and he really hasn't shown a secondary move or counter move when his rip move fails. For someone with such amazing lateral quickness, how has he not been able to develop a better swim move? I've seen him flash on occasions a pretty good jab step that allowed him to fake outside and easily move inside and take advantage of an unsuspecting guard, but it was very few and far between when he did. With that type of later agility, he should have a secondary move like a swim move or even a club. 

Also, with how athletic he is, that's pretty much what he relies on. Again, going back to the AFC North, there's Thomas, Whitworth, and Kelvin Beachum, if he re-signs with the Steelers. Those guys are going to match his speed and be able to widen the edge to the point that he'll need a counter move. 

And, as I mentioned up before, he pretty much does not have the requisite functional strength and that's going to take time to develop. At this time, he has no bull rush or ability to really rock the tackle back onto their heels and set them up for a nasty counter move. 

I think he's got a high ceiling if he can add functional strength, improve hand usage, and develop secondary moves for his pass rush arsenal, but that's far from a guarantee and I don't think he'll be an early contributor. I think he's gonna need a year or two to develop himself for the NFL and that's not something I'd want at six overall.

[BmoreBird22]

14 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

drug addict is quite the overstatement for a kid who is nearly 2 years removed from his dismissal and has made great strides since then to mature as a person, he got busted twice taking a party drug, he was a college kid making bad decisions, he paid the price, and has paid his dues the long and hard way and has not given anybody a reason to call him a "drug addict". 

I'd call him a drug addict who kicked the addiction. Apparently he told his teammates this was an issue dating back to high school, so yes, he only was busted twice in college, but this was apparently a longterm issue. It wasn't him being young and a knucklehead. It was him having an issue.

However, he kicked it and received glowing character reviews from Urban Meyer. That's enough for me.

[BmoreBird22]

Pretty sure this was posted, but Matt Miller said the buzz from scouts is that LaQuan Treadwell will run a 4.65 or 4.70 (Anquan Boldin type speed) and get drafted in the top of the second round.

I'd crap my pants if Ozzie got Mackensie Alexander and then Treadwell.

[GrimCoconut]

@BmoreBird22 I'll agree with most of your concerns, but I'll say I just don't think they're any more concerning than other top prospects except Tunsil. He's played well against B1G OTs, which are commonly used in the NFL and considered the most pro ready. So I don't think your concern about level of talent is truly warranted. He's also dominated Raven, a LT commonly viewed as one of the better prospects at his position in this class. 

I think he just needs more coaching, which I think he'd get here. Just because he hasn't displayed certain moves doesn't mean he can't or will struggle to learn them. I don't think he purely relies on athleticism to win, either. 

[GrimCoconut]

16 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Pretty sure this was posted, but Matt Miller said the buzz from scouts is that LaQuan Treadwell will run a 4.65 or 4.70 (Anquan Boldin type speed) and get drafted in the top of the second round.

I'd crap my pants if Ozzie got Mackensie Alexander and then Treadwell.

That would be a coup!

[BmoreBird22]

6 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

@BmoreBird22 I'll agree with most of your concerns, but I'll say I just don't think they're any more concerning than other top prospects except Tunsil. He's played well against B1G OTs, which are commonly used in the NFL and considered the most pro ready. So I don't think your concern about level of talent is truly warranted. He's also dominated Raven, a LT commonly viewed as one of the better prospects at his position in this class. 

I think he just needs more coaching, which I think he'd get here. Just because he hasn't displayed certain moves doesn't mean he can't or will struggle to learn them. I don't think he purely relies on athleticism to win, either. 

Apparently Clark has been getting manhandled by everyone, so I wouldn't read into that too much, but I will agree every prospect has some concerns. However, I have to ask, what big name prospects did he take on and really beat? Looking at his schedule, he may have faced Jack Conklin, who many regarded as an up and coming player, and he may have faced Brandon Scherf in 2013, but looking at his schedule, I'm not sure he played any amazing tackles.

And in no way am I saying he can't be a great football player. You can strengthen a player and teach him technique, but you cannot teach speed and burst that he has. That's something no one will be able to teach him and that already gives him a very high ceiling. From the sounds of it, he's the high character type who will work hard and reach his potential. 

I just view it as a risk.

[BmoreBird22]

11 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

That would be a coup!

It'd be Alshon Jeffrey/Keenan Allen all over again with top 15 players falling. I'd be livid if he were there and the Ravens didn't snag him.

[Deflated Football]

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It'd be Alshon Jeffrey/Keenan Allen all over again with top 15 players falling. I'd be livid if he were there and the Ravens didn't snag him.

For real. You think we'd learn our lesson by now. 

[PolishRifle]

48 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Pretty sure this was posted, but Matt Miller said the buzz from scouts is that LaQuan Treadwell will run a 4.65 or 4.70 (Anquan Boldin type speed) and get drafted in the top of the second round.

I'd crap my pants if Ozzie got Mackensie Alexander and then Treadwell.

At that point, I'd hope that Ozzie would maybe move up. I wouldn't want another Dez Bryant scenario to unfold, where we just stay put and watch someone else take a stud WR.

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Apparently Clark has been getting manhandled by everyone, so I wouldn't read into that too much, but I will agree every prospect has some concerns. However, I have to ask, what big name prospects did he take on and really beat? Looking at his schedule, he may have faced Jack Conklin, who many regarded as an up and coming player, and he may have faced Brandon Scherf in 2013, but looking at his schedule, I'm not sure he played any amazing tackles.

And in no way am I saying he can't be a great football player. You can strengthen a player and teach him technique, but you cannot teach speed and burst that he has. That's something no one will be able to teach him and that already gives him a very high ceiling. From the sounds of it, he's the high character type who will work hard and reach his potential. 

I just view it as a risk.

I think what I like most about Spence is his character, surprisingly, if he's indeed reformed himself. I've always placed heavy weight on prospect with athleticism who overcome adversity. That's a combination for success. I agree regarding his first step, which is why I feel he can become a great player. You can't teach that as you said. I feel that his desire and past failure will make him a successful NFL player. That's a winning combo for me. He's a risk but he carries massive reward. 

I'm not sure which LT he faced off the top of my head. I know he faced Conklin and I also believe he played against Spriggs, and I guess he played against Wisconsin and their LT, who's okay. I think he played against Smith from Penn State as well. 

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think what I like most about Spence is his character, surprisingly, if he's indeed reformed himself. I've always placed heavy weight on prospect with athleticism who overcome adversity. That's a combination for success. I agree regarding his first step, which is why I feel he can become a great player. You can't teach that as you said. I feel that his desire and past failure will make him a successful NFL player. That's a winning combo for me. He's a risk but he carries massive reward. 

I'm not sure which LT he faced off the top of my head. I know he faced Conklin and I also believe he played against Spriggs, and I guess he played against Wisconsin and their LT, who's okay. I think he played against Smith from Penn State as well. 

I don't know whether or not Conklin was the same Conklin that he is now, but I know he was under the "watch list". Donovan Smith, you mean? Alright, so a pretty good list of players. I'd have to look at those games if they were available. Michigan State is actually one game I did watch because I wanted to see him match up against Conklin and that's one game where I felt he looked worse than any other in run defense.

[allblackraven]

For what it's worth, Walter Football running a rumor mill on teams being unhappy with how Spence handled interviews (apparently, he met with all 32 teams):

http://walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2016rumors4.php

[GrimCoconut]

10 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

For what it's worth, Walter Football running a rumor mill on teams being unhappy with how Spence handled interviews (apparently, he met with all 32 teams):

http://walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2016rumors4.php

Interesting. The interviews will make or break him. 

[Deflated Football]

24 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

For what it's worth, Walter Football running a rumor mill on teams being unhappy with how Spence handled interviews (apparently, he met with all 32 teams):

http://walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2016rumors4.php

Same thing was said about Maxx last year. Shouldn't stop us if we really like him.