Elite Pass Rush is a MUST!

[allblackraven]

12 minutes ago, Tenacious Faulker said:

I agree.  I'm all for 2nd chances and unlike guys like Manziel and Hardy he seems to have made the most of his 2nd chance.  People make mistakes.  Mistakes are life lessons waiting to happen.  It depends on whether someone learned from their mistakes is what means the most.  Too me that means as much (maybe more) about someones untested but un-besmirched character.

I'd like Bosa, but if he's gone at #6 I'd be happy with Spence at #37.

There is no way Spence is on the board after top 15.

[Tenacious Faulker]

Maybe you're right.  If they're targeting him that high them you can expect the Ravens to trade back to get him.

[JoeyFlex5]

i have always been a firm believer of a strong pass rush being the best way to stop a high powered offense, however, you need a COMPETENT secondary for that to work, when you have 1 good corner and nobody else can cover a lick, not even the 06 ravens pass rush could make a difference, and thats what we saw in 2014. i think our front seven can still stop the run very well, and that forces a 1 dimensional gameplan for opposing offenses, but going out and signing a big cap strapping edge rusher when we are still fielding practice squad cb's will ultimately do nothing. if shareece wright is the real deal or if tray walker pans out, then hell yes go make moves, but if they arent, we need to recognize that immediately and address the secondary. 

[GrimCoconut]

10 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i have always been a firm believer of a strong pass rush being the best way to stop a high powered offense, however, you need a COMPETENT secondary for that to work, when you have 1 good corner and nobody else can cover a lick, not even the 06 ravens pass rush could make a difference, and thats what we saw in 2014. i think our front seven can still stop the run very well, and that forces a 1 dimensional gameplan for opposing offenses, but going out and signing a big cap strapping edge rusher when we are still fielding practice squad cb's will ultimately do nothing. if shareece wright is the real deal or if tray walker pans out, then hell yes go make moves, but if they arent, we need to recognize that immediately and address the secondary. 

You could have a front 7 of Donald, Suh, Miller, Watt and others but you need guys who can cover or that quick passing game will kill you.

[Militant X 1]

On 2/1/2016 at 7:02 PM, jimmypowder said:

Suggs and Doom are not elite pass rushers anymore . 

 

We we need an elite pass rusher bad . 

I agree!  

Especially not in the sense of what we saw last night in Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware.  We need that type of tenacity and ferociousness from our pass rushers.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Militant X 1

[jimmypowder]

15 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

I agree!  

Especially not in the sense of what we saw last night in Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware.  We need that type of tenacity and ferociousness from our pass rushers.

Yep . Suggs and Doom don't have Miller &Ware speed anymore . 

Its not close either . 

[Militant X 1]

4 minutes ago, jimmypowder said:

Yep . Suggs and Doom don't have Miller &Ware speed anymore . 

Its not close either . 

 

Or the strength to overpower an offensive line like Miller & Ware did all night long last night.  

It was a beautiful thing to see,  It was shades of our 2000 Ravens defense.  

To me, last night was a statement game that defense clearly still wins Championships in this "pass-league".

Go Ravens!!!

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

I don't know if this has been said already,but we had an elite pass rush in 2014 and it got us no where.Denver's play calling,secondary and speed at ILB is what separates them from us.

[DenverRaven]

Denver has a fine play-caller on the defensive side, and they are just loaded with talent. Why do you think Stewart has been so good there? It's because he can focus solely on his position, and doesn't need to be worried about the players around him. Remember that this Denver D was not healthy in the SB two years ago, so that's another factor. I can't stand Elway or the Broncos, but credit is due here for building an absolute bully on D. They are rushing four most of the time, and Vonn is just perfect on his timing. Ware is a beast too. This comes from very good coaching and genuine talent.

Ravens need to get a couple playmakers, stay healthy, and play to their talents. Denver has done that all season.

Edited February 8, 2016 by DenverRaven
words

[PolishRifle]

Meh, I'm not overreating to any of this. There is no Ware or Miller in this years draft and the Ravens have invested into the defense plenty with only mixed results. What we need is playmakers. It doesn't matter, if they play offense or defense.

[DomMcRaven]

1 hour ago, Militant X 1 said:

 

Or the strength to overpower an offensive line like Miller & Ware did all night long last night.  

It was a beautiful thing to see,  It was shades of our 2000 Ravens defense.  

To me, last night was a statement game that defense clearly still wins Championships in this "pass-league".

Go Ravens!!!

This game further confirms our belief that good offense/elite defense > elite offense/good defense. 

[PolishRifle]

1 minute ago, DomMcRaven said:

This game further confirms our belief that good offense/elite defense > elite offense/good defense. 

Right now we have neither.

[Militant X 1]

13 minutes ago, DomMcRaven said:

This game further confirms our belief that good offense/elite defense > elite offense/good defense. 

It does for me Dom....

9 minutes ago, PolishRifle said:

Right now we have neither.

We have to find this balance somehow....

[sflegend89]

1 hour ago, HomeoftheBRAVENS said:

I don't know if this has been said already,but we had an elite pass rush in 2014 and it got us no where.Denver's play calling,secondary and speed at ILB is what separates them from us.

Got us nowhere? We had the eventual SB Champions down by 14 twice ON THE ROAD with Jimmy Smith sidelined, Webb running on fumes from injuries, a practice squad player starting at corner, half our team on IR, and all this taking place a week before the Patriots got caught cheating at the exact same venue that we played them in. Melvin cost us the game as he was targeted over and over by Brady and then gave up an absurd trick play that sealed the deal. The circumstances surrounding that game were nothing short of ridiculous.

 

To me that doesn't prove that an elite pass rush is inconsequential, the rush could never get there because Melvin couldn't even cover for a few seconds against the quick breaking routes. If Jimmy Smith plays that's an entirely different game, we would see that rush get home and I have no doubt we win with how the offense was putting up points. The secondary play as well as the rest of defense as a whole is very important, no one's saying it's not. But there's no way you can brush off the importance of an elite pass rush under those circumstances.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by sflegend89

[ludy51]

3 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

It does for me Dom....

We have to find this balance somehow....

It won't be easy. There is a reason why when these kinds of defenses come around everybody compares them to the best ever. They are very rare

[PurpleCity5]

It sure helps when you got two pro bowl CBs back there including a pair of safety's who while are not elite but are good. Also look at Danny Trevathan and Brandon Marshall, and pretty much see that they are good players. Denver's pass rush did not win them a SB, their defense overall including the secondary, linebackers, and Wade Philips. 

[DomMcRaven]

8 hours ago, PolishRifle said:

Right now we have neither.

I understand that. I forget who it was, but Mili and I disagreed with a poster about this very thing and that's all I was referencing to. 

8 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

It does for me Dom....

We have to find this balance somehow....

I'm sure the FO has a plan. They have to. 

4 hours ago, ludy51 said:

It won't be easy. There is a reason why when these kinds of defenses come around everybody compares them to the best ever. They are very rare

Agreed. See my reply above about which one I would prefer between good offense/elite defense and elite offense/good defense.

[rmcjacket23]

3 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

It sure helps when you got two pro bowl CBs back there including a pair of safety's who while are not elite but are good. Also look at Danny Trevathan and Brandon Marshall, and pretty much see that they are good players. Denver's pass rush did not win them a SB, their defense overall including the secondary, linebackers, and Wade Philips. 

Yeah, people are making a big deal out of nothing.

The reality is that Denver's defense was incredibly talented, incredibly well rounded, and incredibly well coached. They had no real weaknesses at any level of their defense. They could stop the run, they could get to the QB, and their secondary was exceptional at multiple levels.

This level of defensive play has about a 2-3 year shelf life typically in this league, so its not like you can have a defense like this these days for 5-10 years. With a salary cap, its basically impossible.

In my opinion, this year was sort of an aberration in terms of great defensive play. I think you saw some pretty pedestrian QB play league wide this season, and I don't expect that to continue. A lot of injuries to a good of good QBs, coupled with some of the "older" QBs showing signs of breakdown.

I don't think this is the beginning or even middle of some kind of new trend where only teams with great defenses win SBs. The last few years have had pretty good defensive teams winning SBs, but the Patriots from last season were far from a dominant defense, and they were a much more well-rounded team, which is what every team in the league should be striving for.

[RavensDieHard21]

On 1/25/2016 at 5:43 AM, Winchester said:

Bad draft picks and terrible free agency decisions yet peeps continue to say his decisions are great. Sorry guys it takes drafts and salary cap space for signings to sculpt a great defense. It is not happening with one draft!! Suggs will not be elite at 34 coming off Achilles injury #2. Dumervil is no spring chicken either. The fastest way to a tough defense is for Mosley to craft his cover skills. He has the instincts speed and athleticism to do so. Then find him a running mate that can not only cover like a safety but a tough physical Linebacker as well. A LB tandem that covers like safety's is as much of a drag to offenses as a strong rush. QBs have acknowledged it before. When safety's can drop to positions that LBs usually can not get to, to the QB it feels like there are 12 or 13 players on defense!! That is what stumped the patsies!! Their top2 receivers are not long threats and LBs helped cover them and the extra players covering took Gronk and Edelman out of the game. The OLine and not having a legit speed receiver hurt the patsies. And by speed receiver I don't just mean a fast receiver but a fast viable receiver!! BTW the Broncos would not of done that to the current ravens OLine. The odds are stacked against the ravens finding a true stud edge rusher in this draft. And one defensive back is not changing the defenses fortunes like a powerball ticket. About as wishful thinking as a powerball. Ravens need to find some good rushers that will play better within the ravens system and motivated atmosphere. Players like Mike Neal as a 3-4 end or perhaps Nick Perry at rush Linebacker. Players underperforming on a poorly motivated Packer team. As well as cornerbacks about to breakout. Meanwhile the ravens offense is a #1 receiver from being elite as well as a #2, maybe a skilled receiver like Quick or Marqise with actually #1 breakout potential!! The OLine,QB and coaches are set in marble!! OLine is going to be great next year!!

Our O line will be great if we retain KO. But if he leaves, it will still be in the top 10 I think, especially if we take Stanley.

[RavensDieHard21]

If Bosa, Buckner, Ramsey and Tunsil are gone, I would absolutely love to trade back with the Eagles or the Rams, acquire their first and second rd picks, take either Spence, Floyd, Smith, Alexander, or Jack at #13 or #15 and bundle the two second rounders to jump back in and grab one of those players that are remaining. 

Another dream scenario is to get one of those top 4 talents, then still jump back into the 20's and nab the falling star left on the board, which I think could be an Alexander because of his unproven ball skills and size or Floyd because of his thin frame, but regardless these players will be studs.

[PurpleCity5]

13 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yeah, people are making a big deal out of nothing.

The reality is that Denver's defense was incredibly talented, incredibly well rounded, and incredibly well coached. They had no real weaknesses at any level of their defense. They could stop the run, they could get to the QB, and their secondary was exceptional at multiple levels.

This level of defensive play has about a 2-3 year shelf life typically in this league, so its not like you can have a defense like this these days for 5-10 years. With a salary cap, its basically impossible.

In my opinion, this year was sort of an aberration in terms of great defensive play. I think you saw some pretty pedestrian QB play league wide this season, and I don't expect that to continue. A lot of injuries to a good of good QBs, coupled with some of the "older" QBs showing signs of breakdown.

I don't think this is the beginning or even middle of some kind of new trend where only teams with great defenses win SBs. The last few years have had pretty good defensive teams winning SBs, but the Patriots from last season were far from a dominant defense, and they were a much more well-rounded team, which is what every team in the league should be striving for.

Did we not have a dominant pass rush just a year ago? What happened when we arrived at NE with Webb as our No.1? If we had Jimmy, no disrespect the game would have been different IMO. Not saying we would have still won but I don't think our secondary would get badly roasted like that. I wouldn't leave out that our secondary went completely down him after he went down. If you don't have a secondary you can't blitz as much as Denver can and the quick passing game will eat you.

[rmcjacket23]

36 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Did we not have a dominant pass rush just a year ago? What happened when we arrived at NE with Webb as our No.1? If we had Jimmy, no disrespect the game would have been different IMO. Not saying we would have still won but I don't think our secondary would get badly roasted like that. I wouldn't leave out that our secondary went completely down him after he went down. If you don't have a secondary you can't blitz as much as Denver can and the quick passing game will eat you.

So, basically, you need a well-rounded defense. 

[PurpleCity5]

23 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So, basically, you need a well-rounded defense. 

Yeah, I don't think Denver's pass rush would be this good without that secondary.

[Vergil2008]

On 1/25/2016 at 8:18 AM, rmcjacket23 said:

Overreaction.

You know what's a must? A well rounded defense that has no huge weaknesses. Just because the two teams going to the SB have great pass rushes THIS YEAR doesn't mean it's a must. Last season it certainly wasn't a must.

Good, not great, pass rush is important. Secondary that forces turnovers and doesn't give up big plays is important. Stopping the run is important.

If you're weak in any one of those areas and great in the others, you'll get exposed.

See 2014 Ravens defense.

 

Cmon guys, we are Ravens fans. Literally a team known, historically for defense. I think we are some of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to defense. We know what it takes to have a good defense.

 

However, like previously said about depth.. secondary, LBs... basically just like our best defensive teams with Lewis, Reed in their prime... this years Broncos D and the Seahawks elite defense in 12/13.. you just need it all if you want to be on the same level as those.

 

..Which to be frank isnt very possible in just a year. Our secondary was and is horrible. Remember the Bengals game? The Raiders game? The Browns game that made McClown look like Manning? We left GRAND CANYON holes open in the backfield all damn season long. We have ALOT of work to do.

 

So I don't want to hear "Well we need depth". We gotta develop first, before anything. I heard the word "athleticism" several times reading this thread. Our guys don't show a scrap of it right now except sometimes Mosley. And a damn shamely, Webb when he wants to. And Will Hill, so like 2.5 guys last season. You look at that Broncos D this season, or any of our past D's, they HUSTLE BUSTLE nonstop.

 

We don't need "depth" perse, cause basically what you guys are saying is we need to transplant the whole defense, literally. We need development.

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Yeah, I don't think Denver's pass rush would be this good without that secondary.

Correct, it wouldn't. The best pass rushes in the league are getting to QBs in somewhere between 2-3 seconds. A soft secondary means the QB can likely get the ball out quicker than that.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

On 2/8/2016 at 0:10 PM, sflegend89 said:

Got us nowhere? We had the eventual SB Champions down by 14 twice ON THE ROAD with Jimmy Smith sidelined, Webb running on fumes from injuries, a practice squad player starting at corner, half our team on IR, and all this taking place a week before the Patriots got caught cheating at the exact same venue that we played them in. Melvin cost us the game as he was targeted over and over by Brady and then gave up an absurd trick play that sealed the deal. The circumstances surrounding that game were nothing short of ridiculous.

 

To me that doesn't prove that an elite pass rush is inconsequential, the rush could never get there because Melvin couldn't even cover for a few seconds against the quick breaking routes. If Jimmy Smith plays that's an entirely different game, we would see that rush get home and I have no doubt we win with how the offense was putting up points. The secondary play as well as the rest of defense as a whole is very important, no one's saying it's not. But there's no way you can brush off the importance of an elite pass rush under those circumstances.

 

 

 

How did this get upvotes or hearts or whatever we're calling them now?Our pass rush isn't the reason we had those two 14 point leads.It's part of the reason we lost those 14 point leads.When you look at the numbers Ben and Brady put up against us in 2014 it really did get us no where against them.I'm not brushing off the importance of a good pass rush,but without good pass coverage the best pass rushes are useless against the better QB's in the league.You basically proved the point I was making with all the talk about Webb,Melvin and Jimmy.An elite secondary > an elite pass rush.Just look at what Seattle has been doing for the past few years.Instead of a thread about Denvers elite pass rush,we should have a thread about their elite secondary.Their pass rush is not better than what we brought with McPhee,Ngata,Timmy,Suggs and Doom.The difference between Denver and us is their pass coverage and playcalling as I said in my original post.

Edited February 9, 2016 by HomeoftheBRAVENS

[Drew P]

6 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Did we not have a dominant pass rush just a year ago? What happened when we arrived at NE with Webb as our No.1? If we had Jimmy, no disrespect the game would have been different IMO. Not saying we would have still won but I don't think our secondary would get badly roasted like that. I wouldn't leave out that our secondary went completely down him after he went down. If you don't have a secondary you can't blitz as much as Denver can and the quick passing game will eat you.

Don't forget you need LB's that can cover. They need a younger and more athletic ILB next to Mosely or Eiffert and Barnidge and will continue to own them.

[PurpleCity5]

50 minutes ago, Drew P said:

Don't forget you need LB's that can cover. They need a younger and more athletic ILB next to Mosely or Eiffert and Barnidge and will continue to own them.

 

50 minutes ago, Drew P said:

Don't forget you need LB's that can cover. They need a younger and more athletic ILB next to Mosely or Eiffert and Barnidge and will continue to own them.

Absolutely, Denver has some good coverage LBs I think. 

[codizzle]

On February 9, 2016 at 4:23 PM, PurpleCity5 said:

 

Absolutely, Denver has some good coverage LBs I think. 

They most definitely do 

[Ravensfan23]

In terms of that Broncos defense I think people are missing a pretty huge factor and that's the impact that Wade Phillips had on that defense. The Broncos had nearly the same exact defense last year and had a total of 0 sacks in the 2014 playoff game vs the Colts. 

So it's easy to become a prison of the moment and try to mimic another team but if you aren't able to use players just like that did it's basically a moot point. The Ravens need to find players that can perform Pees defense the way he wants it or find a DC that can get the most out of type of players Ozzie adds. 

I think the Ravens have some nice pieces on defense and a dominant pass rusher would help, but ultimately guys have to stay healthy and be used properly.