Elite Pass Rush is a MUST!

[January J]

thanks, it just makes the most sense to me. After D.Smith retires we will have a huge hole, what better way to fill a need than taking the top guy at the position and setting up the duo for years to come. Mostly can hone his skills better by focusing more up front and then we have our own version of a honeybadger.

I agree with you, I really want us to trade back into the first and hopefully grab a pass rusher. With those two pics, we could literally transform our defense and set it up for the future pretty well. And it's like BP is an extra pick we get this year. I get more excited the more I think about having myles and mosely. I really think our defense will surprise people as long as pees makes adjustments to scheme to his personal rather than using our personnel to scheme (if that made sense)

makes perfect sense. Right on.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Pass rush is definitely a must next season. It will compliment the back end of the defense and keep the opposing teams QB guessing and jumpy.

[rmcjacket23]

Pass rush is definitely a must next season. It will compliment the back end of the defense and keep the opposing teams QB guessing and jumpy.

Agreed.

 

And lets be realistic here... AT BEST, we are probably going to add one legitimate secondary player this offseason, likely via the draft and potentially with a high draft pick. And even then, its still a rookie.

 

Webb is going to play FS, Hill is going to play SS, and we still have Jimmy Smith. We appear to like Will Davis and will probably be counting on him, and we may very well resign Shareece Wright and/or keep Arrington (though I doubt he stays). So basically, you're going to see some young corners in here competing for playing time. 

 

The idea of us somehow trading or signing a big time FS is dead in the water I believe, and I'm not necessarily convinced that the FO really thinks our secondary needs a major talent infusion... just an upgrade at one spot.

 

I think they'll focus on pass rush significantly to take burden off what could be a pretty young group of corners.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Agreed.

 

And lets be realistic here... AT BEST, we are probably going to add one legitimate secondary player this offseason, likely via the draft and potentially with a high draft pick. And even then, its still a rookie.

 

Webb is going to play FS, Hill is going to play SS, and we still have Jimmy Smith. We appear to like Will Davis and will probably be counting on him, and we may very well resign Shareece Wright and/or keep Arrington (though I doubt he stays). So basically, you're going to see some young corners in here competing for playing time. 

 

The idea of us somehow trading or signing a big time FS is dead in the water I believe, and I'm not necessarily convinced that the FO really thinks our secondary needs a major talent infusion... just an upgrade at one spot.

 

I think they'll focus on pass rush significantly to take burden off what could be a pretty young group of corners.

Agreed 100%  great post.

[Ravenslifer]

 

Then we saw the flip side of that today with Von Miller and Ware making game altering plays that ultimately brought the Pats high powered offense to a screeching halt and propelled Denver into the SB. Forget Talib, Harris Jr, Ward, and all the great players they have in their secondary, it started with the pass rush and they don't win that game without their edge rushers despite having the best secondary in football.

 

 

 

There's a reason we haven't really had that kind of impact player since the days when Suggs and Ngata were young - we simply don't draft high enough to have shots at these talents.  Let's run down the 2015 list of top 10 sack artists: Aaron Donald - 13th overall, Kawaan Short - 44th overall, Von Miller - 2nd overall, Geno Atkins - 120th overall, , Whitney Mercillus - 26th overall, Muhammed Wilkerson - 30th overall, Chandler Jones - 21st overall, Carlos Dunlap 54th overall, Ziggy Ansah 5th overall, Khalil Mack 5th overall, JJ Watt 11th overall.  Notice something - only 3 of these guys was NOT a first round pick, and 5 of them were top 15 picks in their respective drafts, and two others were taken in the top half of the second round.  We have been picking in the late 20s of every draft since 2008 except 1, and then we were still only 17th.  We had a shot at just 3 of these guys.  The last time we took a player regarded that highly was Suggs, and he's got a chance to finish his career in the top 15 in NFL history in sacks.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Ravenslifer

[cobrajet]

We need passrushers and the ability to stop quick throws. A good passrush doesn't help as much if a QB can kill us with throwing a ton of quick slants and screens. Carolina's passrush is so good because their LBs are incredibly athletic and can stop those quick passes to the inside.

I agree, we have been getting burned on those quick screens, even when our pass rush was pretty decent.

[PurpleCity5]

exactly. Pass rush is great, and we definitely need it, but if you don't have linebackers that can cover.. teams like New England that have quarterbacks with a quick release will dink and dunk their way down the field all day long. You have to disrupt their short and intermediate routes so they go to their second read and our pass rushers have time to get to them, teams had us figured out this year...they would just kill us with the short passes over the middle..and then soon as we brought everybody up to try and contain it..they would burn us deep with the home run. And it worked every time bc our safety's weren't disciplined. That's why teams like Carolina and Denver are so great..not only do they have a good pass rush, they have a strong secondary and LB corps that is Disciplined. When you the linebackers that can actually cover the short routes , more sacks will be made, and quarterbacks will be forced into bad decisions. This is exactly why I wouldn't be opposed to taking a guy like Myles jack at 6. Him and Mosley would be a phenomenal duo. May be a slight reach but so be it.

If you don't have a secondary thats at least competant, then your pass rush will be worthless when you get to the post season, you can't function a defense without either.

I do like Jack and wouldn't mind him here, but I do prefer the latter in Jaylon Smith.

[jazz1988]

What happened in 2014 was the result in the FO over-confidence in players like Chykie Brown who are simply PS players. Letting Corey Graham go was a pretty dumb move and its killing us at the moment. If we had Graham, Webb could easily have been let go of by now. The CB position is honestly a huge hole on the roster and the secondary is just as big of a problem. The thing is, Denver and Carolina have a great secondary, which pretty much allows them to bring the Heat, and we all know Wade Philips isn't afraid to blitz. I think we need to prioritze the pass rush, but lets not forget that the secondary was a big reason Denver and Carolina is in the SB, we need a secondary in order to win and to your point, we need to prioritize both.

 

I don't look at Corey Graham going to The Bills as The Ravens simply letting him go . The  Buffalo Bills gave him more of a opportunity to start and he grew up in Buffalo, New York. It was a win win situation for him because he not only had a chance to be a starter  but be closer to home near his family.

 

Losing Corey Graham has hurt The Ravens for the past two years because they haven't been able to find that solid outside cornerback since Graham left. I'm not sure if Shareece Wright will be back but he played quite well for The Ravens and he could be the next Corey Graham or atleast a solid outside cornerback. If Wright is bought back that gives The Ravens a cornerback they can trust to start beside Jimmy Smith and gives them much needed trust to allow Webb cover as a nickel corner/free safety which I think he can help the defense alot at.

[PurpleCity5]

I don't look at Corey Graham going to The Bills as The Ravens simply letting him go . The  Buffalo Bills gave him more of a opportunity to start and he grew up in Buffalo, New York. It was a win win situation for him because he not only had a chance to be a starter  but be closer to home near his family.

 

Losing Corey Graham has hurt The Ravens for the past two years because they haven't been able to find that solid outside cornerback since Graham left. I'm not sure if Shareece Wright will be back but he played quite well for The Ravens and he could be the next Corey Graham or atleast a solid outside cornerback. If Wright is bought back that gives The Ravens a cornerback they can trust to start beside Jimmy Smith and gives them much needed trust to allow Webb cover as a nickel corner/free safety which I think he can help the defense alot at.

I don't recall Corey wanting to leave here, he did win a SB here but if there is something out there that said he had a desire to be in Buffalo before signing with them then that's that, I'm more upset about how we failed to replace him. I don't see how you can rely on some guy to all of the sudden turn up the heat when he has not shown consistent and meaningful snaps.

 

I personally don't have much confidence in Wright, I think he can be a good 4 or 3 but a starter? I know he had a good stretch to end the season but what if we see the same Wright that we saw in his playing days at San Diego and San Francisco? If he preforms well then good, he gives you good depth at CB, but I don't think you can rely on him as a starter.

[redrum52]

Agreed.

 

And lets be realistic here... AT BEST, we are probably going to add one legitimate secondary player this offseason, likely via the draft and potentially with a high draft pick. And even then, its still a rookie.

 

Webb is going to play FS, Hill is going to play SS, and we still have Jimmy Smith. We appear to like Will Davis and will probably be counting on him, and we may very well resign Shareece Wright and/or keep Arrington (though I doubt he stays). So basically, you're going to see some young corners in here competing for playing time. 

 

The idea of us somehow trading or signing a big time FS is dead in the water I believe, and I'm not necessarily convinced that the FO really thinks our secondary needs a major talent infusion... just an upgrade at one spot.

 

I think they'll focus on pass rush significantly to take burden off what could be a pretty young group of corners.

But, but, but... Eric Berry is a FA!

 

Pick him and Alshon up.  Then, trade for Calvin and get him to take a pay cut to win a ring, after re-signing Haloti and winning the Von Miller FA war.

[JEEPercreepermd]

hates the word "elite" such a fad word. 

[Winchester]

thanks, it just makes the most sense to me. After D.Smith retires we will have a huge hole, what better way to fill a need than taking the top guy at the position and setting up the duo for years to come. Mostly can hone his skills better by focusing more up front and then we have our own version of a honeybadger.

I agree with you, I really want us to trade back into the first and hopefully grab a pass rusher. With those two pics, we could literally transform our defense and set it up for the future pretty well. And it's like BP is an extra pick we get this year. I get more excited the more I think about having myles and mosely. I really think our defense will surprise people as long as pees makes adjustments to scheme to his personal rather than using our personnel to scheme (if that made sense)

I agree except I prefer drafting a receiver with the round2 pick. Edge rusher is not very strong and it would be a reach as well as talking yourself into the edge rusher being a good value!! I like will Davis to play injury free and be an impact player as much as Campanaro. Campanaros's training has sparked Wills interest and it looks as if he will join Campanaro. There are several defensive players available with top tier talent but underperformed on unmotivated teams. Mike Neal has talent nearly similar to Geno Atkins but plays in a poorly motivated McCarthy environment!! Linebacker explosion and tackle power!! Same can be said for teammate Nick Perry who has impact skills but bad motivation and work ethic. He would be a super shark under Harbs and his off season conditioning challenge. Same could be said about Derrick Morgan who is a vocal leader and looks to be cut. A Nick perry or Derrick Morgan and Myles Jack and injury free will Davis would be a completely different defense!! Mosley Jack and Perry or Morgan would be formidable and awesome team speed. Then Mike Neal and Jernigan would be a great tandem rushing the QB on the inside. Mosley and Jack is like having 2 extra strong safety's. Perry or Morgan would not be expensive at all.

[Tenacious Faulker]

Pass rusher. Secondary.  Pass rusher. Secondary. Pass rusher. Secondary....these two affect each other and both are needed so no need to argue and take what is given to us in the draft.  

Drafting elites could be difficult tho'.  We'll have to wait for the Combine to see if any other elite talent emerges, but from where we are I would want to see OLB Joey Bosa.  That may not work out without a trade up or his stock somehow plummets.  IMO Ramsey is the best suited DB on the board for us at out position to fill in at free safety.  Bosa is a no-brainer if we get a shot at him.

In the absence of these two or another yet to be determined rising prospect, a UFA at pass rusher is going to be a major cap hit.  Think that we can finagle another fax machine incident for Von Miller this time?  Maybe Dumervil can show him how!   

 

Tamba Hali and Chad Greenway are on the wrong side of 30 tho I think Hali would be a nice fit here.  You can forget Hardy and Aldon Smith for the past  off field issues.  Nick Perry could be a solid guy but is hardly elite.  It's a tough market.

[Ravenseconbeast]

I wish we had Von Miller.   The guy might have a 10 cent head outside of football.  But his technique and his game infield is off the chart.   The man is a monster.

[RavensFanOfLA]

exactly what we need it was so annoying watching qb's have zero pressure on them leading to receivers getting dotted up

[RavensRegime]

Both the Broncos & Panthers D are fast & aggressive. We need speed in the LB core and the Secondary. 

TEs & Slot receivers killed us this year. 

[jimmypowder]

If the New England -Denver game said anything it is you absolutely must have pass rushers to win it all .

 

Corners and Safeties are nice but a monster pass rush can minimize completely any deficiencies you may have in the secondary.(Denver has a great secondary too) . 

We need to draft a pass rusher first if the right guy is there. This is a passing league anymore for the most part. 

[redrum52]

26 minutes ago, jimmypowder said:

If the New England -Denver game said anything it is you absolutely must have pass rushers to win it all .

 

Corners and Safeties are nice but a monster pass rush can minimize completely any deficiencies you may have in the secondary.(Denver has a great secondary too) . 

We need to draft a pass rusher first if the right guy is there. This is a passing league anymore for the most part. 

 

We had a pass rush in 14 and lost to the Pats.  The Broncos have a excellent pass rush and an extremely talented secondary.  Their talent level on defense is insane.  You need cover guys too and it's pretty apparent to me.  The secondary guys are more important, at the moment.  We have enough pass rush and too much confusion at db.  Since Reed has retired, we haven't had any consistency at safety or cb(due to injury).

[jimmypowder]

1 hour ago, redrum52 said:

 

We had a pass rush in 14 and lost to the Pats.  The Broncos have a excellent pass rush and an extremely talented secondary.  Their talent level on defense is insane.  You need cover guys too and it's pretty apparent to me.  The secondary guys are more important, at the moment.  We have enough pass rush and too much confusion at db.  Since Reed has retired, we haven't had any consistency at safety or cb(due to injury).

Suggs and Doom are not elite pass rushers anymore . 

 

We we need an elite pass rusher bad . 

[usmccharles]

6 minutes ago, jimmypowder said:

Suggs and Doom are not elite pass rushers anymore . 

 

We we need an elite pass rusher bad . 

In 14 they were.   And we don't know how they will be this coming season,  may not be elite,  but I bet they are still better than average 

[K-Dog]

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

In 14 they were.   And we don't know how they will be this coming season,  may not be elite,  but I bet they are still better than average 

At the very least, they won't be "non issue". 

[RaineV1]

18 hours ago, jimmypowder said:

Suggs and Doom are not elite pass rushers anymore . 

 

We we need an elite pass rusher bad . 

Doom got over 20 sacks in 14 season. Yeah, the Ravens had one of the top passrushes in the league that year, and were getting plenty of pressure on Brady in the AFC Title game. The top qbs can still pick apart a team with a good passrush if they can get the use a lot of short passes.

[Tenacious Faulker]

So the new article on Sr Bowl pass rushers highlited OLB Noah Spencer (Eastern Kentucky) and DE Bronson Kaufusi (BYU).  Both look like mean pass rush specialist respectively and could be available in the 2nd rd.  Spence supposedly ended up getting booted from OSU for using Ecstasy, but has been drug free since and looked fiery and dominant.  Kaufusi is a DE prospect at 6'8"/285 and is athletic and polished as a big man.  We have a ton of DT/DE's and adding another in the 2nd rd still seems like a stretch given our other needs.  We desperately need an OLB of the future and despite his off field history, Spence does fit the bill for 2016.

Of course this is all pre-Combine and players' stock  will continue to rise and fall.    But they're two exciting names to watch for.

[redlobster]

53 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Doom got over 20 sacks in 14 season. Yeah, the Ravens had one of the top passrushes in the league that year, and were getting plenty of pressure on Brady in the AFC Title game. The top qbs can still pick apart a team with a good passrush if they can get the use a lot of short passes.

Doesn't help when your defense refuses to adjust. Brady wins by short quick passes and the ravens were playing 10 yards off.

[RaineV1]

13 minutes ago, redlobster said:

Doesn't help when your defense refuses to adjust. Brady wins by short quick passes and the ravens were playing 10 yards off.

Yeah, that's been the biggest issue of the Ravens' defense over the last couple years.

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, redlobster said:

Doesn't help when your defense refuses to adjust. Brady wins by short quick passes and the ravens were playing 10 yards off.

Partially true, but they also win with yards after the catch, and we had a secondary who was horrific at tackling and lacked closing speed.

I think if you look back you'll see that the scheme difference between the 2012 Ravens defense and the 2014 Ravens defense against the Patriots was very close. The difference was that the 2012 Ravens largely eliminated yards after the catch, and the Patriots kept trying to run on them which didn't work against the 2014 Ravens.

If you'll notice, not a huge difference in statistical production from Brady between the 2014 game and the 2012 game...

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, Tenacious Faulker said:

So the new article on Sr Bowl pass rushers highlited OLB Noah Spencer (Eastern Kentucky) and DE Bronson Kaufusi (BYU).  Both look like mean pass rush specialist respectively and could be available in the 2nd rd.  Spence supposedly ended up getting booted from OSU for using Ecstasy, but has been drug free since and looked fiery and dominant.  Kaufusi is a DE prospect at 6'8"/285 and is athletic and polished as a big man.  We have a ton of DT/DE's and adding another in the 2nd rd still seems like a stretch given our other needs.  We desperately need an OLB of the future and despite his off field history, Spence does fit the bill for 2016.

Of course this is all pre-Combine and players' stock  will continue to rise and fall.    But they're two exciting names to watch for.

I've been a big fan of Spence for some weeks now after looking into his problem and realizing it's not as bad as it initially appeared in terms of its long-term effects. I would certainly like him here. 

[ALPHA]

45 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Yeah, that's been the biggest issue of the Ravens' defense over the last couple years.

Our offense doesn't adjust either, it's frustrating to watch.

[jimmypowder]

3 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

Doom got over 20 sacks in 14 season. Yeah, the Ravens had one of the top passrushes in the league that year, and were getting plenty of pressure on Brady in the AFC Title game. The top qbs can still pick apart a team with a good passrush if they can get the use a lot of short passes.

two sacks  in that game . not a lot of pressure .Brady picked the secondary apart.He never looked or felt uncomfortable 

like the recent Broncos game. 

[Tenacious Faulker]

9 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I've been a big fan of Spence for some weeks now after looking into his problem and realizing it's not as bad as it initially appeared in terms of its long-term effects. I would certainly like him here. 

I agree.  I'm all for 2nd chances and unlike guys like Manziel and Hardy he seems to have made the most of his 2nd chance.  People make mistakes.  Mistakes are life lessons waiting to happen.  It depends on whether someone learned from their mistakes is what means the most.  Too me that means as much (maybe more) about someones untested but un-besmirched character.

I'd like Bosa, but if he's gone at #6 I'd be happy with Spence at #37.