allblackraven's pre combine mock

[January J]

With the tape I saw, not sure if Carroo will last past 3rd round. If he does, I think he would be a steal with his ability to get open. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cJWLu2-RI

what are his measurables?

[allblackraven]

what are his measurables?

 

6'1" - 215 but there are some showing little bit less. Not a big guy but very good player.

[allblackraven]

With the tape I saw, not sure if Carroo will last past 3rd round. If he does, I think he would be a steal with his ability to get open. 

I agree, 4th seems low even with his off the field stuff but who knows

[PurpleCity5]

The question is, how can you be sure guy you like will still be there 6-10 picks later? I like Spence a lot for Ravens and I'm not prepared to gamble on that.

I think he will, barring any insane combine from Spence I'm very confident he would still be there.

[GrimCoconut]

I think he will, barring any insane combine from Spence I'm very confident he would still be there.

I almost wonder if Spence is another Arthur Brown or Odell Beckham Jr. What I mean by that is a guy who people think goes higher but goes lower, or a guy people think goes lower but goes higher. We've had plenty of both projections around here. I wonder where he will fall.

[allblackraven]

I almost wonder if Spence is another Arthur Brown or Odell Beckham Jr. What I mean by that is a guy who people think goes higher but goes lower, or a guy people think goes lower but goes higher. We've had plenty of both projections around here. I wonder where he will fall.

 

I feel his tape shows top 10 guy but it will come down to trust and how much of a risk teams see him. I wish Ozzie remembers Will Hill example in Spence's case.

[PurpleCity5]

I almost wonder if Spence is another Arthur Brown or Odell Beckham Jr. What I mean by that is a guy who people think goes higher but goes lower, or a guy people think goes lower but goes higher. We've had plenty of both projections around here. I wonder where he will fall.

I guess we won't truly know where he will go until draft day, when the pressure is on teams to select a franchise difference maker, can you intrust that to someone who you can't completely put your trust on to stay on the field? Not saying Noah Spence isn't a changed man, but can you fully put your trust in him? I think these GMs who are picking in the top ten don't want to risk that, especially given how some of theae teams have been struggling for years.

[cushrinada1986]

what are his measurables?

Per CBS Reports

School: Rutgers

Sr H:6-0 LBS:205 RD:2-3

[cushrinada1986]

what are his measurables?

Not a big guy by much but he is able to get deep. Besides, We have Waller and Matthews as the red zone guys and big body targets. Kinda want to add a second guy, like Shepard or Fuller. No way our division would be ready for that.

[GrimCoconut]

I feel his tape shows top 10 guy but it will come down to trust and how much of a risk teams see him. I wish Ozzie remembers Will Hill example in Spence's case.

I guess we won't truly know where he will go until draft day, when the pressure is on teams to select a franchise difference maker, can you intrust that to someone who you can't completely put your trust on to stay on the field? Not saying Noah Spence isn't a changed man, but can you fully put your trust in him? I think these GMs who are picking in the top ten don't want to risk that, especially given how some of theae teams have been struggling for years.

He would've been a top-10 pick if it wasn't for the ecstasy issue, and teams may feel he's worth it after interviewing him & his coaches. Adversity can change you for the better, so while I understand the argument that he could be damaged goods, I also think an equally-strong argument exists suggesting that he could become a top-10 defensive player in the NFL as a result of this. Drive & ambition to succeed are major factors influencing future production. When you combine this with talent, which he most certainly has, & coaching, then you have a potential difference maker. 

 

Justin Houston was busted for marijuana at the combine. Granted, that's at the combine, but that's often viewed as a more egregious move due to the proximity & knowledge of the inevitable test. 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2524118-justin-houstons-nfl-success-a-lesson-to-teams-that-run-scared-on-draft-day

 

I'd hate to pass on another Justin Houston because of ecstasy issues that haven't been a problem for some time now. If he did have a problem, it would've likely started to surface (and maybe it will before the draft). 

 

P.S. I know that's a BR article, and while I also don't like to use their stuff as supporting documentation, this is a surprisingly well-written article.

Edited January 23, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[Wildabeast88]

The question is, how can you be sure guy you like will still be there 6-10 picks later? I like Spence a lot for Ravens and I'm not prepared to gamble on that.

while there are no guarantees most big boards Spence is no higher than mid 20s most in the 30-40 range so you assume at 12-15 range that he in theory should be there

[Wildabeast88]

With the tape I saw, not sure if Carroo will last past 3rd round. If he does, I think he would be a steal with his ability to get open. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cJWLu2-RI

most mocks he is late 3rd but mostly 4th round grades still all star games and combine so it could change but that's pretty on point from what I have seen on most sites

[GrimCoconut]

while there are no guarantees most big boards Spence is no higher than mid 20s most in the 30-40 range so you assume at 12-15 range that he in theory should be there

Yeah, most boards had Bruce Irvin as a 3rd round pick, same for Frederick, but those teams showed other teams that analysts just don't know another team's intention. If you like a guy enough and think he's worth it, sometimes it's not worth the gamble.

[Wildabeast88]

Yeah, most boards had Bruce Irvin as a 3rd round pick, same for Frederick, but those teams showed other teams that analysts just don't know another team's intention. If you like a guy enough and think he's worth it, sometimes it's not worth the gamble.

exactly it only takes 1team to blow that projection up it also depends on the depth of he position along with the need. Frederick was the top C so that you could see that as a gamble

[ellicottraven]

Yeah, most boards had Bruce Irvin as a 3rd round pick, same for Frederick, but those teams showed other teams that analysts just don't know another team's intention. If you like a guy enough and think he's worth it, sometimes it's not worth the gamble.

But the point of the art of the draft is also knowing that if a guy however talented in one team's eyes is, it might be smart to acknowledge his placement in other team's drafts so the team that is drafting him picks him at an appropriate spot by trading back. That is part of the art of the draft I believe. Having said that however, if that team truly believes in that particular player so much that they cannot risk or are reluctant to display patience, then it may be best to pick them up when their pick is on...

[GrimCoconut]

But the point of the art of the draft is also knowing that if a guy however talented in one team's eyes is, it might be smart to acknowledge his placement in other team's drafts so the team that is drafting him picks him at an appropriate spot by trading back. That is part of the art of the draft I believe. Having said that however, if that team truly believes in that particular player so much that they cannot risk or are reluctant to display patience, then it may be best to pick them up when their pick is on...

That's how I see it. I think a lot of teams the media gets it wrong, possibly due to deception from NFL teams, when it comes to this kind of stuff. It's not their fault that they just don't know. Sometimes things get leaked, but some things are usually a surprise and come out days before the draft or not at all. I recall rumors that Irvin would be a first round pick just a day or a few before the draft. Then, the Seahawks take him & I recall Rex Ryan being mad about it. 

 

Sometimes you just have to bite that bullet. If we feel Spence is the best pass rusher in this class for this team, I say take him art #6 and be done with it. It does of course depend. I mean, if we got a good deal to trade back I'd certainly consider it. I think the art of the draft comes more from guessing what other teams want. If we feel we can trade back and still get Spence, I'd do it. We can even trade back up for him if we need to do it. 

[allblackraven]

[ellicottraven]

I am just not buying the Noah Spence train in the first

In fact his situation reminds me a little bit of Randy Gregory's situation last year...

[Wildabeast88]

In fact his situation reminds me a little bit of Randy Gregory's situation last year...

Its slightly different Gregory's issue was a failed test at the combine Spence's issue were over a year old Edited January 24, 2016 by Wildabeast88

[JoeyFlex5]

In fact his situation reminds me a little bit of Randy Gregory's situation last year...

gregory also basically admitted he needed weed to function and he insinuated that he wouldn't quit.

[Cillmatic]

In fact his situation reminds me a little bit of Randy Gregory's situation last year...

If I'm correct Gregory was caught with weed once while Spence was caught with a more serious drug twice and was arrested for drunken misconduct some months ago. Spence seems like a bigger problem than Gregory. Edited January 24, 2016 by Cillmatic

[usmccharles]

If I'm correct Gregory was caught with weed once while Spence was caught with a more serious drug twice and was arrested for drunken misconduct some months ago. Spence seems like a bigger problem than Gregory.

what was he caught with?

[Cillmatic]

what was he caught with?

Ecstasy/unpure molly Edited January 24, 2016 by Cillmatic

[Wildabeast88]

If I'm correct Gregory was caught with weed once while Spence was caught with a more serious drug twice and was arrested for drunken misconduct some months ago. Spence seems like a bigger problem than Gregory.

i don't remember the drunken misconduct I know he had an interview where he Sid seeing Ohio St win the championship really got him to straighten up and quitting a year before instead of still doing at the combine knowing you will be tested is just pure stupid

[allblackraven]

i don't remember the drunken misconduct I know he had an interview where he Sid seeing Ohio St win the championship really got him to straighten up and quitting a year before instead of still doing at the combine knowing you will be tested is just pure stupid

He had one in May I think, nothing too serious - threw a bottle on the street in the middle of night while with his friends and nobody else around (except for cops). Not the smartest thing to do but he is apparently not drinking since.

[Wildabeast88]

He had one in May I think, nothing too serious - threw a bottle on the street in the middle of night while with his friends and nobody else around (except for cops). Not the smartest thing to do but he is apparently not drinking since.

ok thanks I hadn't heard that but I think not as big a red flag as Gregory

[GrimCoconut]

If I'm correct Gregory was caught with weed once while Spence was caught with a more serious drug twice and was arrested for drunken misconduct some months ago. Spence seems like a bigger problem than Gregory.

I think you're exaggerating. There's nothing recent indicating it's an issue. Granted, it could still be one, and maybe he is a bit of a headache, but we don't know that yet and we can only go off of what we currently know. What we know is it's been a while now since he's been caught for anything. He's been supposedly clean the whole time. It's hard to call him a bigger problem at this time with this current set of understanding.

[January J]

That's how I see it. I think a lot of teams the media gets it wrong, possibly due to deception from NFL teams, when it comes to this kind of stuff. It's not their fault that they just don't know. Sometimes things get leaked, but some things are usually a surprise and come out days before the draft or not at all. I recall rumors that Irvin would be a first round pick just a day or a few before the draft. Then, the Seahawks take him & I recall Rex Ryan being mad about it. 

 

Sometimes you just have to bite that bullet. If we feel Spence is the best pass rusher in this class for this team, I say take him art #6 and be done with it. It does of course depend. I mean, if we got a good deal to trade back I'd certainly consider it. I think the art of the draft comes more from guessing what other teams want. If we feel we can trade back and still get Spence, I'd do it. We can even trade back up for him if we need to do it.

 I agree completely. If you value a guy and he is exactly what you need you don't even chance it whether it's a "reach" or not. Especially in our predicament. Now if we know for sure that 5 teams after us won't be needing a pass rusher then ofcourse it'd be nice to trade back, but how can you really know? I wouldn't be mad with us taking spence at 6 at all..which is where he likely would have been if not for the off field stuff. 

I think you're exaggerating. There's nothing recent indicating it's an issue. Granted, it could still be one, and maybe he is a bit of a headache, but we don't know that yet and we can only go off of what we currently know. What we know is it's been a while now since he's been caught for anything. He's been supposedly clean the whole time. It's hard to call him a bigger problem at this time with this current set of understanding.

definitely over-exaggerated.i don't see him being more of a concern than Gregory..I just don't get that vibe from him..he seems like those issues are legitimately behind him..and what better place to straighten him out then Baltimore under harbaugh? Hopefully he will take the jump to the NFL seriously and realize this is his shot, and that messing up could potentially cost him millions. College kids do stupid stuff, but most of the time they straighten up once they realize their career is on the line. Lord knows if i never got a second chance after all the stupid stuff I did as a teenager..ofcourse it would suck to take him at 6 if he can be had in the early 2nd..but is that worth the roll of the dice considering this is probably our most important need? Maybe so if there's another prospect that you covet maybe a little less but with less red flags..that's why I leave this stuff to the pro's. But if you think spence could be the next big thing I think you pounce and don't even worry about what's considered a reach.

[allblackraven]

On 23/01/2016 at 3:36 PM, January J said:

On 23/01/2016 at 3:02 PM, cushrinada1986 said:

With the tape I saw, not sure if Carroo will last past 3rd round. If he does, I think he would be a steal with his ability to get open. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cJWLu2-RI

what are his measurables?

 

On 23/01/2016 at 4:04 PM, allblackraven said:

6'1" - 215 but there are some showing little bit less. Not a big guy but very good player.

Well, college measurements failed again - at Senior Bowl he measured just short of 5'11", still 215. They say he looks in good nick and very strong.