Flacco the team player. Takes 3 year extension, lowers cap hit.

[Willbacker]

2006- 102mill

2007- 109

2008- 116

2009- 123

2010- no cap

2011- 120

2012- 120.6

2013- 123

2014- 133

2015- 143.8

2016- 150+****

 

Seems to go up at least 7mill more frequently than not. We will not be the only team to have a cap hit of 20-25 for a player, let alone a qb. 

 

Cap Hits for 2016 (justoffense)

 

Brees- 30

Eli Manning=  24.2

Megatron- 24

Big Ben- 23.9

Matt Ryan- 23.7

Stafford- 22.5 

Rivers- 21

Romo- 20.8

Newton- 19.5

 

Think a flat rate of 25 moving forward would be just fine....

Thanks for looking all that up. Mainly the caps been jumping like crazy cuz of the new tv deals they got where the owners got paid billions(really not sure of the number lol). It does seem like history shows that the cap progresses upward at a pretty healthy pace normally except of course after the owners locked out the players but how long can the animal be fed.

 

Brees is in the last year of his contract and I wouldn't be surprized if he gets extended or they can just play out the final year and be done with it. Eli and Ben's cap hits actually go down by 5 mil the following year but then crank back up to the 23 mil range in their final 2 yrs. Newton and Wilsons cap hits only hit 23 mil in their final yrs and I forgot to look up Ryan's contract but he's way overpaid lol. Flacco>Ryan not even close. Rodgers considered by many the best QB in the league averages roughly 20 mil over the length of his contract so therefore Joe is not worth 25 mil and no we shouldn't be the trendsetters. If we can keep him roughly between the 20-22mil range that would be fair market value and we can get weopans and protection and its soooooo imperative that they do this at a flat rate instead of like the previus contract or again we'll be in the same situation where we gonna have to go begging Joe to rework the deal.

[rmcjacket23]

Thanks for looking all that up. Mainly the caps been jumping like crazy cuz of the new tv deals they got where the owners got paid billions(really not sure of the number lol). It does seem like history shows that the cap progresses upward at a pretty healthy pace normally except of course after the owners locked out the players but how long can the animal be fed.

 

Brees is in the last year of his contract and I wouldn't be surprized if he gets extended or they can just play out the final year and be done with it. Eli and Ben's cap hits actually go down by 5 mil the following year but then crank back up to the 23 mil range in their final 2 yrs. Newton and Wilsons cap hits only hit 23 mil in their final yrs and I forgot to look up Ryan's contract but he's way overpaid lol. Flacco>Ryan not even close. Rodgers considered by many the best QB in the league averages roughly 20 mil over the length of his contract so therefore Joe is not worth 25 mil and no we shouldn't be the trendsetters. If we can keep him roughly between the 20-22mil range that would be fair market value and we can get weopans and protection and its soooooo imperative that they do this at a flat rate instead of like the previus contract or again we'll be in the same situation where we gonna have to go begging Joe to rework the deal.

But again, in order to keep him at a $20-22M cap number in the future, he's going to have to agree to a deal for less than that, which he wont. He's still got over $25M in existing dead money from this deal that rolls over into the next three years of any deal he gets.

There's very little chance that the next deal he signs will come with future cap hits of less than $23-$25M.

[usmccharles]

Thanks for looking all that up. Mainly the caps been jumping like crazy cuz of the new tv deals they got where the owners got paid billions(really not sure of the number lol). It does seem like history shows that the cap progresses upward at a pretty healthy pace normally except of course after the owners locked out the players but how long can the animal be fed.

 

Brees is in the last year of his contract and I wouldn't be surprized if he gets extended or they can just play out the final year and be done with it. Eli and Ben's cap hits actually go down by 5 mil the following year but then crank back up to the 23 mil range in their final 2 yrs. Newton and Wilsons cap hits only hit 23 mil in their final yrs and I forgot to look up Ryan's contract but he's way overpaid lol. Flacco>Ryan not even close. Rodgers considered by many the best QB in the league averages roughly 20 mil over the length of his contract so therefore Joe is not worth 25 mil and no we shouldn't be the trendsetters. If we can keep him roughly between the 20-22mil range that would be fair market value and we can get weopans and protection and its soooooo imperative that they do this at a flat rate instead of like the previus contract or again we'll be in the same situation where we gonna have to go begging Joe to rework the deal.

Yea, i get bored at work and have time to look up random info.  One of 4 qbs on that list to win a SB, isnt too bad considering i think he was the most recent signed.  

[Winchester]

But again, in order to keep him at a $20-22M cap number in the future, he's going to have to agree to a deal for less than that, which he wont. He's still got over $25M in existing dead money from this deal that rolls over into the next three years of any deal he gets.

There's very little chance that the next deal he signs will come with future cap hits of less than $23-$25M.

I just do not get why a little paycut along with the restructure is so preposterous!! lol I mean he wants players and wants to win, and he will not miss $8mil over a several year frame. If he wins a couple Superbowls he will make far more than that back in endorsements anyways. He will be in the exact same financial bracket!! But with a far better team and maybe a championship ring.

[usmccharles]

I just do not get why a little paycut along with the restructure is so preposterous!! lol I mean he wants players and wants to win, and he will not miss $8mil over a several year frame. If he wins a couple Superbowls he will make far more than that back in endorsements anyways. He will be in the exact same financial bracket!! But with a far better team and maybe a championship ring.

Honestly i could never understand this mindset either.  When your making that much money, whats the difference between 20 mill a year than 22 mill a year to someone (other than 2million dollars obviously).  Joe does not seem like a lavish spender like some of the younger guys who go out and buy 2 mansions and about 6 ferraris. 

 

I think it mostly has to do with an ego/respect thing, call it either one. 

[K-Dog]

I think it mostly has to do with an ego/respect thing, call it either one.

I think agents come into play here as well.

[rmcjacket23]

4 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I just do not get why a little paycut along with the restructure is so preposterous!! lol I mean he wants players and wants to win, and he will not miss $8mil over a several year frame. If he wins a couple Superbowls he will make far more than that back in endorsements anyways. He will be in the exact same financial bracket!! But with a far better team and maybe a championship ring.

Honestly i could never understand this mindset either.  When your making that much money, whats the difference between 20 mill a year than 22 mill a year to someone (other than 2million dollars obviously).  Joe does not seem like a lavish spender like some of the younger guys who go out and buy 2 mansions and about 6 ferraris. 

 

I think it mostly has to do with an ego/respect thing, call it either one. 

Well, I guess since none of us have ever had to make that decision, so we wouldn't understand.

In his defense, I'd simply argue this:

If you are saying that I should take $20M instead of $22M, then that's only $2M a season. For $2M a season... how is this team going to be so significantly better that I'm better off doing this? If we retain one player... does that somehow transform us from a mediocre team to a SB contender by keeping just one player?

Or... what about all the other guys on the team who are overpaid? Why aren't they being asked to take paycuts as well? Why should I take a paycut when others who make less and are performing at less than what they are making are being kept at that salary?

Or what about even the Tom Brady approach? I sign a team friendly contract so that you can resign the players I want you to (Wes Welker specifically), and then you don't resign that player... what exactly am I taking a paycut for? How do I know that the money I'm saving you is being spent well and being spent on players that directly benefit me? Should I take $2M less this year so that you can resign my kicker to a long-term extension? What if I take $2M less with the impression that you are going to resign KO, and then you don't resign KO (certainly a possibility)? What if I take $2M less so that you can go get me another veteran WR who can move the chains and then you don't get me that player?

That's the biggest concept I think fans forget. You can take a team friendly deal all day long, but it guarantees the team absolutely nothing. Certainly doesn't guarantee you more wins or even guarantee you are in a better position to win more games. In particular, he's probably looking around at other teams who have QBs carrying $20-$25M cap numbers and saying "they're winning more games than us and have better offenses than us... so why should I take less"?

Just food for thought.

[B-more Ravor]

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 8:49 AM, usmccharles said:

Its not always gonna happen that the cap raises 10 mil a yr annually. Check out the history of the cap when you get a chance. There's times where it took hits and also othertimes where it flatlined. If we pay Joe 25 mil a year we'd be the only ones doing it besides Brees.

2006- 102mill

2007- 109

2008- 116

2009- 123

2010- no cap

2011- 120

2012- 120.6

2013- 123

2014- 133

2015- 143.8

2016- 150+****

 

Seems to go up at least 7mill more frequently than not. We will not be the only team to have a cap hit of 20-25 for a player, let alone a qb. 

 

 

 

This.  The only time the Cap has ever gone down or even come remotely close to flattening was after the 2011 CBA, when the owners forced a reduction of the Cap and it took a couple of years to start climbing again.  And, it's climbed steadily since. 

Edited January 26, 2016 by B-more Ravor

[B-more Ravor]

6 hours ago, Winchester said:

 

I just do not get why a little paycut along with the restructure is so preposterous!! lol I mean he wants players and wants to win, and he will not miss $8mil over a several year frame. If he wins a couple Superbowls he will make far more than that back in endorsements anyways. He will be in the exact same financial bracket!! But with a far better team and maybe a championship ring.

The simple answer is that agents and the NFLPA don't like paycuts.  It's bad business and sets a bad precedents.

Because of that it rarely happens, especially when the player has all the leverage in the world.

Yes, Flacco has expressed a desire to get something done - of course, he would because he's going to get paid more this year to do so. 

It is what it is.  But, as someone else said, the real issue is his agent, Joe Linta, and how accommodating he's going to be and how much Flacco pushes him to be reasonable.

[atomicfront]

On 1/21/2016 at 10:07 AM, Purple_City39 said:

Forget that quote... The best quote of that article
"Alright. This isnt too bad"

Ridiculous

Could you imagine if that was Ben?  "I thought my knee detached completely.  The pain was so intense I couldn't even see straight"

 

Flacco is easily the toughest AFCN QB and one of the toughest in the league.  Rivers gets my respect also

I am not a Roethlisberger fan but he has been hit hard so many times in his career and he gets up and plays most of the time.  I think to use Ben as an example of Quaterback who aren't tough is not a good one.  

[Purple_City39]

15 hours ago, atomicfront said:

I am not a Roethlisberger fan but he has been hit hard so many times in his career and he gets up and plays most of the time.  I think to use Ben as an example of Quaterback who aren't tough is not a good one.  

I think there should be a better term to define Ben as opposed to "tough".  Tough to me suggest hard to break.  Flacco fits that.  Ben is injured yearly, and I mean multiple injuries and has been like that since his second season.  Either way, my point was that Joe said it wasn't that bad whereas Ben would have complained about how he almost died.

[redrum52]

No new threads no no no.....   

 

Didn't know where to put this so here.  Mike Sando's list of SB MVP performances: http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/14627380/ranking-super-bowl-mvps-nfl

[Tank 92]

2 hours ago, redrum52 said:

No new threads no no no.....   

 

Didn't know where to put this so here.  Mike Sando's list of SB MVP performances: http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/14627380/ranking-super-bowl-mvps-nfl

 

                                                                                                          

[usmccharles]

3 hours ago, redrum52 said:

No new threads no no no.....   

 

Didn't know where to put this so here.  Mike Sando's list of SB MVP performances: http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/14627380/ranking-super-bowl-mvps-nfl

I might be having a brain fart,  but I I thought we won by more than 3, because instead of that terrible fade throw from kapernick they could of just kicked a fg.   

[redrum52]

15 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I might be having a brain fart,  but I I thought we won by more than 3, because instead of that terrible fade throw from kapernick they could of just kicked a fg.   

Took a safety to run clock.

[RavensDieHard21]

I love Flacco and the consistency that he brings here. He is our iron man and our January specialist. Besides a few blunders from time to time, which happen to the best of the best, Joe is worth franchise QB money. With that being said, it is no longer a crazy phenomenon to pay a QB $20 million a year, which I think between 18-20 is certainly what Flacco should be getting paid through his next extension because $28 million is pretty darn suffocating for the cap. I know Ozzie wants to create space early on in these deals so that he can have more wiggle room for that year, but then when these deals are so back loaded it puts immense pressure on him to seek an extension with the player to lower that number, or to restructure their deal, which I think just creates cycles of cap room headaches and dead money once the player isn't willing to budge. But if we can create $8-10 million and make cuts to any other players that we feel can be replaced at a percentage of the price then 2016 will be a great year.

[berad]

1 hour ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I love Flacco and the consistency that he brings here. He is our iron man and our January specialist. Besides a few blunders from time to time, which happen to the best of the best, Joe is worth franchise QB money. With that being said, it is no longer a crazy phenomenon to pay a QB $20 million a year, which I think between 18-20 is certainly what Flacco should be getting paid through his next extension because $28 million is pretty darn suffocating for the cap. I know Ozzie wants to create space early on in these deals so that he can have more wiggle room for that year, but then when these deals are so back loaded it puts immense pressure on him to seek an extension with the player to lower that number, or to restructure their deal, which I think just creates cycles of cap room headaches and dead money once the player isn't willing to budge. But if we can create $8-10 million and make cuts to any other players that we feel can be replaced at a percentage of the price then 2016 will be a great year.

Agree. All of the top tier teams in the NFL find a way to balance big QB contracts with a solid supporting cast. The two SB team had big money QBs and were the top seeds in their conferences.

The Ravens are hurting specifically, because of dead cap money and average drafting/FAs. Whether you want to blame the development of those players on coaches or FO is your prerogative but guys like Elam, Arthur Brown, Pierce, and a few others have not lived up to their draft status, just the same as guys like Darian Stewart (who played very well in Denver, hmm), Kendrick Lewis, Kyle Arrington, Jacoby Jones (2nd contract), and others haven't played up to expectations.

Of course, we have had a lot of good draft picks and FAs. But missing on those key ones leads to a perpetual area of weakness and we've put a lot of resources towards those spots to fix it.

Addressing the dead cap, we had $24M worth of cap space being paid out to contracts we terminated one way or another - notably Rice, Ngata, Jacoby, Canty (when we cut him). We were among the league's highest in that mark, the other teams also stank. We had another $50M of our cap space on IR, injuries suck. For 2016, we're only projected to have $200K worth of dead cap; a huge boon for us, we're done paying off Rice and Ngata. However, that number will probably rise depending on what happens with guys like Pitta, Monroe, Webb, etc.

TLDR, IMO we kind of reaped what we sewed with some average-poor draft classes in 2012-2013 (and/or development issues), lackluster FAs (and/or scheme fit issues), dead money, and an abnormal amount of injuries.

I'm hopeful for the future, still trust in the FO and most of the coaches - not going to derail the thread with that, though.

[RavensDieHard21]

2 hours ago, berad said:

Agree. All of the top tier teams in the NFL find a way to balance big QB contracts with a solid supporting cast. The two SB team had big money QBs and were the top seeds in their conferences.

The Ravens are hurting specifically, because of dead cap money and average drafting/FAs. Whether you want to blame the development of those players on coaches or FO is your prerogative but guys like Elam, Arthur Brown, Pierce, and a few others have not lived up to their draft status, just the same as guys like Darian Stewart (who played very well in Denver, hmm), Kendrick Lewis, Kyle Arrington, Jacoby Jones (2nd contract), and others haven't played up to expectations.

Of course, we have had a lot of good draft picks and FAs. But missing on those key ones leads to a perpetual area of weakness and we've put a lot of resources towards those spots to fix it.

Addressing the dead cap, we had $24M worth of cap space being paid out to contracts we terminated one way or another - notably Rice, Ngata, Jacoby, Canty (when we cut him). We were among the league's highest in that mark, the other teams also stank. We had another $50M of our cap space on IR, injuries suck. For 2016, we're only projected to have $200K worth of dead cap; a huge boon for us, we're done paying off Rice and Ngata. However, that number will probably rise depending on what happens with guys like Pitta, Monroe, Webb, etc.

TLDR, IMO we kind of reaped what we sewed with some average-poor draft classes in 2012-2013 (and/or development issues), lackluster FAs (and/or scheme fit issues), dead money, and an abnormal amount of injuries.

I'm hopeful for the future, still trust in the FO and most of the coaches - not going to derail the thread with that, though.

I agree completely and I hope when Joe sits down at the table that he realizes that if Ozzie can get a nice chunk of cap to work with that he will once again have the chance to compete for a championship. With a playoff record of 10-5 and a SB MVP to his credit, he should be itching to add to that already impressive resume. 

I just hope that one way or another that Webb, Pitta, and Monroe's contracts find a way to work out for us, instead of us cutting them and having to deal with that dead money cycle again.

[Steve0x]

Its too late now. Most of the Ravens from 2013 are gone. And you cant get Boldin or Ngata back nether

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, Steve0x said:

Its too late now. Most of the Ravens from 2013 are gone. And you cant get Boldin or Ngata back nether

Judging by what I've seen from a lot of them, we're better off without them. Rather have good football players from the present/future.

[Steve0x]

Jacket are you satisfied with an 5-11 season? 

[usmccharles]

11 hours ago, Steve0x said:

Its too late now. Most of the Ravens from 2013 are gone. And you cant get Boldin or Ngata back nether

Or Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Matt Birk, etc....you have to move on at some point.  Besides, Ngata was a shell of himself and dealt with injuries all year long.  Boldin seems like he has a little bit in the tank at 25 and put up decent numbers with terrible QB play.   We need to get younger at core positions. 

[Steve0x]

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Or Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Matt Birk, etc....you have to move on at some point.  Besides, Ngata was a shell of himself and dealt with injuries all year long.  Boldin seems like he has a little bit in the tank at 25 and put up decent numbers with terrible QB play.   We need to get younger at core positions. 

But you let the Vets have one or two years left on their contracts. Let me ask you this,,Suppose O's traded Cal Ripken to the Yankees 2 years before he retired would you be ok with that?

 

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, Steve0x said:

But you let the Vets have one or two years left on their contracts. Let me ask you this,,Suppose O's traded Cal Ripken to the Yankees 2 years before he retired would you be ok with that?

 

I don't watch Baseball.  Sometimes you have to do whats best for the organization.  We let Ray Lewis test free agency, it shows that one player isn't bigger than the team.  If you look at Ngata when he played for the Lions, you really think he would of been worth keeping him on for the money just to pay respects for what he did in the past?  Ngata was one of my favorite players for us and it sucked to seem him go, but the FO knows what they are doing more than any of us, they make business decisions while us fans make decisions based off of emotions. 

Also, there is nothing to say that Ngata couldn't come back to Bmore unless pride gets in the way, which I don't think it would.  Right player, Right price. 

[K-Dog]

The only way to maintain longevity is to keep a steady flow of purging of the old and adding the young.  Often times that involves purging players that still have value.

If we only let players go at the end of their careers,  we would be a team with far more and more significant ups and downs. 

[rmcjacket23]

10 hours ago, Steve0x said:

Jacket are you satisfied with an 5-11 season? 

Nope, but neither of those players have anything to do with that either. Not like anybody realistically thinks that we are an 11-5 team if we had Boldin and Ngata.

Also, if we are basing how good players are by their W/L record, note that Boldin plays for the 49ers and Ngata plays for the Lions. Which one of their records am I supposed to be impressed by?

[rmcjacket23]

3 hours ago, Steve0x said:

But you let the Vets have one or two years left on their contracts. Let me ask you this,,Suppose O's traded Cal Ripken to the Yankees 2 years before he retired would you be ok with that?

 

Actually, yes, I would. Ripken was about as pedestrian a player as they come the last two years of his career (go check the stats).

Why do you think people mocked Derek Jeter all last season when he couldn't hit a beach ball?

Also, saying "trade him to the Yankees" implies that we traded these guys to division rivals. Last time I checked, we have essentially no rivalry with the 49ers and Lions, who we play once every four years.

[Steve0x]

I disagree. If Boldin or Ngata still play for Ravens they would have been an 9-7 team

[rmcjacket23]

24 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

I disagree. If Boldin or Ngata still play for Ravens they would have been an 9-7 team

Based on what?

For starters, there's no chance we sign Steve Smith if Boldin is on the team, so you'd have one or the other but not both. Given what I've seen from both the last two years, I'd much rather have Steve Smith.

Ngata is a good player but there isn't a defensive lineman in the league, outside of maybe JJ Watt, that is worth 4 wins a season.

[Steve0x]

What wrong with 2  Boldin and Smith would make Flacco look like Joe Montana. And Ngata would stop the running game and knock out QBs cold