Flacco the team player. Takes 3 year extension, lowers cap hit.

[JacktheRaven]

it does I get your point but if the estimates are true say 8 mil that could get KO resigned and give you a little extra to go towards Tucker/Aiken. I hate how people pound Joe on this why don't they crush Brady and others even Suggs when he extended to get a little extra cap space

If the Ravens want to keep Tucker, Aiken & KO, they will. I could argue that Monroe is the better player at the better price than KO.

My guess is they'll keep Tucker & Aiken. They won't overpay for Aiken. He was the best receiver on a depleted receiver team.

[JacktheRaven]

Yeah, different situations though.

Yes, very different. Webb could have been released and would have signed for less with another team. Joe's not in that scenario.

[ellicottraven]

If the Ravens want to keep Tucker, Aiken & KO, they will. I could argue that Monroe is the better player at the better price than KO.

My guess is they'll keep Tucker & Aiken. They won't overpay for Aiken. He was the best receiver on a depleted receiver team.

Agree with everything you stated. However, by overpaying if you mean 1st round tender, they won't. But, they won't risk assigning him a low round tender either, because he'll be gone. I think they will end up assigning Aiken a second round tender and work out a long term deal with Tucker. I don't expect them to franchise tag anybody this season.

[Winchester]

All I read was Flacco saying "Ozzie, bring KO back to play LT and get me some firepower."

Exactly!! Allow me to add to that. Do you remember the first 7 yrs of Bradys career?? His regular season numbers were good but not prolific. His postseason numbers were considerably better!! Sound like Joe Cool??Patsies lost the 2006 nfc championship game in a shootout cuz of his receivers dropped throws and failure to separate. Belicheat realized Tom was a top3 QB and realized he needed quality weapons. So Belicheat surrounded Tom Brady with not just quality receivers but great receivers. And he responded with a record breaking year!! I know I know he lost the Superbowl!! BUT, it was cuz of a vastly overrated OLine!! The OLine played with great chemistry. Always made the right calls and double teamed the great defensive lineman and edge rushers and single blocked correctly. However most of the offensive line was susceptible to being beat one on one by great or even very good defensive players!! Light was their best OLine player and even he was not quite pro bowl caliber. Close but not quite. Mankins was completely overrated!! Nasty and dirty and technically sound but not overly strong or athletic. He was torched by Tuck. Anyways get Joe Cool a legit #1 and set of weapons and he will respond with nearly 5000 yards and 30-40 TDs. He finally has learned from good coordinators like Kubiak and Trestman. I would bet the ravens offense will not have the OLine problems like the patsies!! In raw talent i would take jensen over Mankins. The patsies only retained one receiver from prior year and he became the #4.

[Wildabeast88]

What are you gonna do the following year when B Williams and Wagner(just to name a couple) are UFA's and Joe's contract is gonna be ridiculous and everybody figgered Brady out after they did a little digging. Restructuring is out of the question and a horrible fix. Even an extension at 25 mil a year is dumb.

2017 the top names we have Will Hill Will Davis Brandon Williams Wagner and Juice. Not many FBs left in the league so unless he wants to test the waters as a TE he will come fairly cheap. Hill and Davis who knows they could get decent size contracts but there are plenty of variables there. While B. Will is a top DT as more of a run stuffer not someone who get 8 sacks a years he won't get Ngata type money. Wagner generally most RTs don't break the bank. So I don't see lots of holes here. Also no one said Joe is getting 25mil he sad twice this week it is about winning not money so a 15-18mil deal is probably more like it as well as the cap projects up again in 2017 per overthecap.com it's not all doom and gloom plus you ever now about some of these other contracts

Edited January 23, 2016 by Wildabeast88

[GrimCoconut]

2017 the top names we have Will Hill Will Davis Brandon Williams Wagner and Juice. Not many FBs left in the league so unless he wants to test the waters as a TE he will come fairly cheap. Hill and Davis who knows they could get decent size contracts but there are plenty of variables there. While B. Will is a top DT as more of a run stuffer not someone who get 8 sacks a years he won't get Ngata type money. Wagner generally most RTs don't break the bank. So I don't see lots of holes here. Also no one said Joe is getting 25mil he sad twice this week it is about winning not money so a 15-18mil deal is probably more like it as well as the cap projects up again in 2017 per overthecap.com it's not all doom and gloom plus you ever now about some of these other contracts

I think the Ravens protect themselves by taking at least 1 OT & maybe 2 in this quality OT class as insurance if Wagner leaves or can't be retained. I agree on Juszczyk. He won't break the bank as a FB. Davis needs to stay healthy, and I assume we will retain Wright, so unless he looks like garbage I expect Davis to be gone unless we ignore the secondary again in the draft. I doubt that happens, though. I don't think Will Hill returns for a sequel. I think we will use Brooks to replace him, honestly. I think Brandon Williams is all but guaranteed to return. He's the top FA we have. 

 

As for Joe Flacco, I'd expect his contract closer to 20M/average, but maybe it's around 18M, who knows. I think 15M is very optimistic. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[Wildabeast88]

I think the Ravens protect themselves by taking at least 1 OT & maybe 2 in this quality OT class as insurance if Wagner leaves or can't be retained. I agree on Juszczyk. He won't break the bank as a FB. Davis needs to stay healthy, and I assume we will retain Wright, so unless he looks like garbage I expect Davis to be gone unless we ignore the secondary again in the draft. I doubt that happens, though. I don't think Will Hill returns for a sequel. I think we will use Brooks to replace him, honestly. I think Brandon Williams is all but guaranteed to return. He's the top FA we have.

As for Joe Flacco, I'd expect his contract closer to 20M/average, but maybe it's around 18M, who knows. I think 15M is very optimistic.

yeah 15 is low end but how he talked about winning its a thought but 18 is probably closer to the mark. Davis is interesting remember Davis shut down Antonio Brown I like Wright too but If you can keep both relatively cheap that's huge. Also I want to see how Hill is influenced by Frasier coaching him up also o you see Brooks as a FS or SS or a combo guy. Just want your thoughts on Brooks. If he's a FS behind Webb knowing Webb won't be around for so long Edited January 23, 2016 by Wildabeast88

[GrimCoconut]

yeah 15 is low end but how he talked about winning its a thought but 18 is probably closer to the mark. Davis is interesting remember Davis shut down Antonio Brown I like Wright too but If you can keep both relatively cheap that's huge

Yeah, I'd like to bring back Davis, he just looks like one of those guys who shines next year in the final year of his rookie deal & ends up on another team, lol. You know how that seems to go for us. I just expect us to draft at least two CBs this year, so I think we'll plan fort his inevitability. Then again, maybe he gets injured again, and then at that point do you want him back? I really liked him coming out of Utah State that year, but he just can't stay healthy. He's like the Michael Campanaro of CBs. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[Wildabeast88]

Yeah, I'd like to bring back Davis, he just looks like one of those guys who shines next year in the final year of his rookie deal & ends up on another team, lol. You know how that seems to go for us. I just expect us to draft at least two CBs this year, so I think we'll plan fort his inevitability. Then again, maybe he gets injured again, and then at that point do you want him back? I really liked him coming out of Utah State that year, but he just can't stay healthy. He's like the Michael Campanaro of CBs.

always like your insight at worst case he turns into a comp pick

[Tru11]

Yeah, different situations though.

 

yup.

[Winchester]

Yeah, I'd like to bring back Davis, he just looks like one of those guys who shines next year in the final year of his rookie deal & ends up on another team, lol. You know how that seems to go for us. I just expect us to draft at least two CBs this year, so I think we'll plan fort his inevitability. Then again, maybe he gets injured again, and then at that point do you want him back? I really liked him coming out of Utah State that year, but he just can't stay healthy. He's like the Michael Campanaro of CBs.

I do like will Davis. He could be a good dback if he actually plays. You are correct he is like Campanaro. How huge would it be if Will Davis and Campanaro play every game injury free?? Very talented players. However, outside Tunsil Stanley and maybe Dahl I do not like this year's tackle class. A lot of solid but mediocre unspectacular tackles in my view. Not very strong or athletic. However the ravens do need to plan for Wagner if he is spectacular agsin next year. He was very dominant in last 2 games when he was not playing Injured. Harbs revealed Wagner was playing Injured all year aside from his injury. If Wagner returns to elite that is more reason for Joe Cool to take a pay cut and not just restructure. If Wagner is elite as well Joe Cool is going to like playing with that OLine and with Wagner all pro again the OLine would be the best in the league by leaps and bounds!! Joe will want to keep it intact as well as a couple legit receivers.

[rmcjacket23]

I do like will Davis. He could be a good dback if he actually plays. You are correct he is like Campanaro. How huge would it be if Will Davis and Campanaro play every game injury free?? Very talented players. However, outside Tunsil Stanley and maybe Dahl I do not like this year's tackle class. A lot of solid but mediocre unspectacular tackles in my view. Not very strong or athletic. However the ravens do need to plan for Wagner if he is spectacular agsin next year. He was very dominant in last 2 games when he was not playing Injured. Harbs revealed Wagner was playing Injured all year aside from his injury. If Wagner returns to elite that is more reason for Joe Cool to take a pay cut and not just restructure. If Wagner is elite as well Joe Cool is going to like playing with that OLine and with Wagner all pro again the OLine would be the best in the league by leaps and bounds!! Joe will want to keep it intact as well as a couple legit receivers.

Wagner is a RT. He's not going to cost that much no matter how well he plays. The highest paid RTs make $6M a year, and you can get very good ones for $4-5M.

Not something so significant that Joe has to take a paycut in order to afford.

[Willbacker]

2017 the top names we have Will Hill Will Davis Brandon Williams Wagner and Juice. Not many FBs left in the league so unless he wants to test the waters as a TE he will come fairly cheap. Hill and Davis who knows they could get decent size contracts but there are plenty of variables there. While B. Will is a top DT as more of a run stuffer not someone who get 8 sacks a years he won't get Ngata type money. Wagner generally most RTs don't break the bank. So I don't see lots of holes here. Also no one said Joe is getting 25mil he sad twice this week it is about winning not money so a 15-18mil deal is probably more like it as well as the cap projects up again in 2017 per overthecap.com it's not all doom and gloom plus you ever now about some of these other contracts

You said something about hearing if Joe redid contract about saying saving 8 mil to resign KO. Well according to that story yes you could save 8 mil this year but then Joe would have a flat rate of 25 mil for like the next 5 seasons. Joe taking a paycut? Hey it sounds good but probally unlikely. The NFLPA frowns on stuff like this saying its a step backwards plus Linta pretty unscupolos as a agent. You know good cop(Flacco) bad cop(Linta). Seahawks fans thought for sure Wilson was gonna give them a hometown discount. Didn't happen. Joe has pocketed 62 mil tho so maybe there is some hope he'd take a paycut but I'd  think it would be no less than 20 mil flatrate a year. Cross our fingers and hope.

 

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/01/14/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/joe-flacco-cmon-down/

 

^^This is the link for the contract I was talking about. Got it from Arnie from free agents and salary cap at top of forum pg 18.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Willbacker

[usmccharles]

You said something about hearing if Joe redid contract about saying saving 8 mil to resign KO. Well according to that story yes you could save 8 mil this year but then Joe would have a flat rate of 25 mil for like the next 5 seasons. Joe taking a paycut? Hey it sounds good but probally unlikely. The NFLPA frowns on stuff like this saying its a step backwards plus Linta pretty unscupolos as a agent. You know good cop(Flacco) bad cop(Linta). Seahawks fans thought for sure Wilson was gonna give them a hometown discount. Didn't happen. Joe has pocketed 62 mil tho so maybe there is some hope he'd take a paycut but I'd think it would be no less than 20 mil flatrate a year. Cross our fingers and hope.

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/01/14/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/joe-flacco-cmon-down/

^^This is the link for the contract I was talking about. Got it from Arnie from free agents and salary cap at top of forum pg 18.

one thing you have to realize is the cap will be going up. So a flat rate of 25 is like 20-22 is. Always have to taken in account for inflation

[GrimCoconut]

I do like will Davis. He could be a good dback if he actually plays. You are correct he is like Campanaro. How huge would it be if Will Davis and Campanaro play every game injury free?? Very talented players. However, outside Tunsil Stanley and maybe Dahl I do not like this year's tackle class. A lot of solid but mediocre unspectacular tackles in my view. Not very strong or athletic. However the ravens do need to plan for Wagner if he is spectacular agsin next year. He was very dominant in last 2 games when he was not playing Injured. Harbs revealed Wagner was playing Injured all year aside from his injury. If Wagner returns to elite that is more reason for Joe Cool to take a pay cut and not just restructure. If Wagner is elite as well Joe Cool is going to like playing with that OLine and with Wagner all pro again the OLine would be the best in the league by leaps and bounds!! Joe will want to keep it intact as well as a couple legit receivers.

I like guys like Conklin and Le'Raven Clark. I think it's a pretty strong OL class. There are also some nice RTs in this class as well. Don't sell it short, now. Just because they all don't look like Tunsil doesn't mean they suck, lol. He's rare company as it is imo. 

 

We need a strong OL, though, IMO. Brady didn't become Brady simply overnight, but he developed with flashes here and there. I vaguely remember it when I watched him as a teenager, so I can see how he's progressed. Get Flacco the OL, and I think he can begin to truly justify his contract in the eyes of many. Then, maybe when he's comfortable in that regard he gets better mechanics, which continue even when he doesn't have the best OL. Who knows. I think the OL is worth investing, though.

[Willbacker]

one thing you have to realize is the cap will be going up. So a flat rate of 25 is like 20-22 is. Always have to taken in account for inflation

Its not always gonna happen that the cap raises 10 mil a yr annually. Check out the history of the cap when you get a chance. There's times where it took hits and also othertimes where it flatlined. If we pay Joe 25 mil a year we'd be the only ones doing it besides Brees.

[Winchester]

Wagner is a RT. He's not going to cost that much no matter how well he plays. The highest paid RTs make $6M a year, and you can get very good ones for $4-5M.

Not something so significant that Joe has to take a paycut in order to afford.

No but those contracts add up. And joes paycut is not just for Wagner but assorted players retained as well as Players perhaps signed like Zach Brown or Mike Neal,Nick Perry and or Jeremy Lane, Brian Quick. Derrick Morgan may be cut as part of titans restart.

[rmcjacket23]

Its not always gonna happen that the cap raises 10 mil a yr annually. Check out the history of the cap when you get a chance. There's times where it took hits and also othertimes where it flatlined. If we pay Joe 25 mil a year we'd be the only ones doing it besides Brees.

For now, yes. That will also change.

Besides, you've got a lot of guys who will be having cap hits in the $20-22M range consistently the next three years.

[rmcjacket23]

No but those contracts add up. And joes paycut is not just for Wagner but assorted players retained as well as Players perhaps signed like Zach Brown or Mike Neal,Nick Perry and or Jeremy Lane, Brian Quick. Derrick Morgan may be cut as part of titans restart.

But Joe's not going to take a paycut, nor is it reasonable to expect him to. Certainly not difficult to build a contending team around a large QB cap number if you draft well.

[January J]

Yeah, I'd like to bring back Davis, he just looks like one of those guys who shines next year in the final year of his rookie deal & ends up on another team, lol. You know how that seems to go for us. I just expect us to draft at least two CBs this year, so I think we'll plan fort his inevitability. Then again, maybe he gets injured again, and then at that point do you want him back? I really liked him coming out of Utah State that year, but he just can't stay healthy. He's like the Michael Campanaro of CBs.

  

I do like will Davis. He could be a good dback if he actually plays. You are correct he is like Campanaro. How huge would it be if Will Davis and Campanaro play every game injury free?? Very talented players. However, outside Tunsil Stanley and maybe Dahl I do not like this year's tackle class. A lot of solid but mediocre unspectacular tackles in my view. Not very strong or athletic. However the ravens do need to plan for Wagner if he is spectacular agsin next year. He was very dominant in last 2 games when he was not playing Injured. Harbs revealed Wagner was playing Injured all year aside from his injury. If Wagner returns to elite that is more reason for Joe Cool to take a pay cut and not just restructure. If Wagner is elite as well Joe Cool is going to like playing with that OLine and with Wagner all pro again the OLine would be the best in the league by leaps and bounds!! Joe will want to keep it intact as well as a couple legit receivers.

ive got a feeling that Davis will have a huge year next season and become a shutdown corner. Ofcourse you can't predict injuries but I think he finally plays a full season along with camp. Your right that he will likely price himself out of bmore..but if he becomes a true shutdown corner that we really covet, maybe we make some other cuts in order to keep him. Webb for one- unless he does a spectacular job at safety. But yeah if we take a top notch corner in the upcoming draft we may not even have to worry about it.

[usmccharles]

Its not always gonna happen that the cap raises 10 mil a yr annually. Check out the history of the cap when you get a chance. There's times where it took hits and also othertimes where it flatlined. If we pay Joe 25 mil a year we'd be the only ones doing it besides Brees.

2006- 102mill

2007- 109

2008- 116

2009- 123

2010- no cap

2011- 120

2012- 120.6

2013- 123

2014- 133

2015- 143.8

2016- 150+****

 

Seems to go up at least 7mill more frequently than not. We will not be the only team to have a cap hit of 20-25 for a player, let alone a qb. 

 

Cap Hits for 2016 (justoffense)

 

Brees- 30

Eli Manning=  24.2

Megatron- 24

Big Ben- 23.9

Matt Ryan- 23.7

Stafford- 22.5 

Rivers- 21

Romo- 20.8

Newton- 19.5

 

Think a flat rate of 25 moving forward would be just fine....

Edited January 25, 2016 by usmccharles

[Purple_City39]

2006- 102mill

2007- 109

2008- 116

2009- 123

2010- no cap

2011- 120

2012- 120.6

2013- 123

2014- 133

2015- 143.8

2016- 150+****

 

Seems to go up at least 7mill more frequently than not. We will not be the only team to have a cap hit of 20-25 for a player, let alone a qb. 

 

Cap Hits for 2016 (justoffense)

 

Brees- 30

Eli Manning=  24.2

Megatron- 24

Big Ben- 23.9

Matt Ryan- 23.7

Stafford- 22.5 

Rivers- 21

Romo- 20.8

Newton- 19.5

 

Think a flat rate of 25 moving forward would be just fine....

Interesting list.  How the Lions can pay two players almost a 3rd of their cap space is beyond my comprehension.  There's almost no doubt Calvin is cut if he doesn't agree to reduce that cap hit.  

 

I think Joe gets an extension that gives him cap hits hovering around Ben's number going forward, so 23M a year or so.  If he really means what he says about wanting to get more talent on the team then he simply can't break the bank like before.  He earned that money on the playoff run but after pocketing 60M+ already, he shouldn't be too hard up for top dollar

Edited January 25, 2016 by Purple_City39

[usmccharles]

Interesting list.  How the Lions can pay two players almost a 3rd of their cap space is beyond my comprehension.  There's almost no doubt Calvin isn't cut if he doesn't agree to reduce that cap hit.  

 

I think Joe gets an extension that gives him cap hits hovering around Ben's number going forward, so 23M a year or so.  If he really means what he says about wanting to get more talent on the team then he simply can't break the bank like before.  He earned that money on the playoff run but after pocketing 60M+ already, he shouldn't be too hard up for top dollar

yea, im interested to see where Megatron goes, I really think he could go to the Raiders, they have so much cap space. 

 

23-26 mill a year is just fine, people are over reacting thinking thats the end all for our cap space.  If you want a qb, you have to pay for it, plain and simple.  With the cap going up its better to get it done now. 

[Tru11]

yea, im interested to see where Megatron goes, I really think he could go to the Raiders, they have so much cap space. 

 

23-26 mill a year is just fine, people are over reacting thinking thats the end all for our cap space.  If you want a qb, you have to pay for it, plain and simple.  With the cap going up its better to get it done now. 

 

he might retire from what i read.

[usmccharles]

he might retire from what i read.

Yea i saw that too.  Wouldnt shock me

[rmcjacket23]

Interesting list.  How the Lions can pay two players almost a 3rd of their cap space is beyond my comprehension.  There's almost no doubt Calvin is cut if he doesn't agree to reduce that cap hit.  

 

I think Joe gets an extension that gives him cap hits hovering around Ben's number going forward, so 23M a year or so.  If he really means what he says about wanting to get more talent on the team then he simply can't break the bank like before.  He earned that money on the playoff run but after pocketing 60M+ already, he shouldn't be too hard up for top dollar

I think the $25M figure that was presented on RSR was a bit high in my opinion, and they did mention that in their article. They stated they thought that deal they offered as an example was on the max end of what is to be expected.

 

I think cap hits in the $22-24M range over a 4-5 year span is a realistic expectation.

 

I do think, however, given what I'm hearing from both sides, that 2017 might be a more realistic time for the extension than 2016. Or, I don't expect the extension to get done in time for FA to open. If the deal gets done in June, that's great, but that's a good three months after FA opens.

[FlackAttack]

its fairly obvious flacco basically said "restructure my contract and go get me some explosive weapons"

[rmcjacket23]

its fairly obvious flacco basically said "restructure my contract and go get me some explosive weapons"

If only it were that simple...

 

1. If he wants to re-do his contract so that he actually creates room to sign significant players, he's going to have to take a paycut, which I doubt.

 

2. If he does this, he will also need to do this before March 12th realistically, so the clock is ticking.

 

In general, I'm not convinced either happens. I certainly don't expect him to take a paycut and don't think he should either. Extending his contract and creating $6-8M in cap space this season isn't going to be anywhere near enough to get some explosive weapons, nor do I even see many, if any, explosive weapons available in FA to get.

[FlackAttack]

If only it were that simple...

 

1. If he wants to re-do his contract so that he actually creates room to sign significant players, he's going to have to take a paycut, which I doubt.

 

2. If he does this, he will also need to do this before March 12th realistically, so the clock is ticking.

 

In general, I'm not convinced either happens. I certainly don't expect him to take a paycut and don't think he should either. Extending his contract and creating $6-8M in cap space this season isn't going to be anywhere near enough to get some explosive weapons, nor do I even see many, if any, explosive weapons available in FA to get.

 

theres dozens of ways to restructure a contract without taking a "paycut", and free up a good amount of $$$.

[rmcjacket23]

theres dozens of ways to restructure a contract without taking a "paycut", and free up a good amount of $$$.

Well, there's really not.

 

1. There's a restructure without a paycut, which just takes money from this year and pushes it into future years. It doesn't make the money go away, so its really not advantageous for anybody.

 

2. There's a restructure with a paycut, which is self explanatory. Player voluntarily takes less in order to avoid being cut, thus reducing cap number.

 

3. There's an extension, which adds more years and more money to the deal and allows you to spread out the cap hits more. This is what will happen with Joe.

 

What people need to understand is that if Joe agrees to an extension that is for roughly the same amount as the old one ($20M a year), that doesn't mean his cap hits are going to be around $20M a year in the future. It will free up $6-8M in cap space this season, but you are still going to be looking at cap hits of around $25M in the future.