Flacco the team player. Takes 3 year extension, lowers cap hit.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

This is how the Ravens operate... how theyve operated from the get go.

And it's lead to 2 Super Bowls, numerous AFCCG's and among tops in the league in playoff wins. 

The teams that get the players everyone wants in FA usually dont fare too well. Denver is a recent success story adding key, big name type players through FA.. and even then it was a few calculated moves... not a spending spree. The core of the team was built through the draft, but Ware, Talib, Ward, Manning, Mathis, etc.. were some bigger name players that certainly contributed.

But we're going to build through the draft and use FA to resign our own players that are deemed franchise corner stones and supplement with low cost, low risk/high reward type bargain free agents. When a player is deemed a great value, or the final piece in putting us over the top the FO will spend (Boldin, Dumervil, Woodson). 

Simply look at the Eagles, Dolphins, and Tampa Bay - teams that in recent years spent big in FA only to see their team implode. 

And what you and others with your opinion dont seem to understand is that, those like myself who dont have a problem with the Flacco contract, arent approving because we think Joe is the best QB in the league and therefore deserves to be paid tops. Player value is a sliding scale depending upon the market that year. And a players value isnt always based solely on them, it's also their value relative to finding a replacement. Whether you like it or not, Joe is a very good, at times great QB who makes the team incredibly stable (chance at winning a playoff game every year almost). 

When the market dictates that right now you pay $18 million/year for a QB who's proven absolutely nothing except show some promise in 2 of his 6 seasons, paying $22mill/yr for a proven winner and SB MVP over the next 6 years is a good deal. Because if the going rate for a marginal starter is $18 mill right now, that means in 2-3 years (while Joe will still be in his prime) that number will escalate to around $22mill. So over that time we'll have a player at the most important position who is capable of leading winning drives and elevating his game in the playoffs for the same price other teams will be paying for a bottom of the barrel QB with starting experience. Shoot, Brock Osweiler who simply has 4 games starting experience is $15mill right now.

And as the cap ceiling escalates along with that going rate for a marginal starter, Joe's $22mill only becomes more and more of a bargain. Right now hes the highest paid on a per year basis, but in 2 years there will be 4-5 QBs with higher annual salaries. By the time Joe's deal is done I wouldnt be surprised if hes not even top 10 in salary, but as Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Palmer, Roethlisberger etc... either retire or are terribly regressing Flacco will become among the top 5 QB's in the league easily.

The Ravens franchise is now stable at the most important position in sports, for a fairly reasonable price that only becomes more reasonable over time, and with decent drafting and a few key FA adds will continue to be an AFC contender for the next 6 years. 

Think about it this way... look at the other AFC teams. Project the next 6 years and tell me which teams have a guaranteed better situation at QB than us? Patriots? No, maybe the next year or 2 but not 6. Indy? Probably, yea. Pitt? Maybe short term, but I'd take Joe for 6 years right now over 6 years of Big Ben. Oakland? Carr is good, but I wouldnt put him ahead of Flacco now, and i dont expect him to surpass him in the next 2-3 years if ever. Hes not a proven winner. 

Other than Indy, I cant think of a single AFC team that I would argue has a better guaranteed QB situation over the next 6 years than the Ravens (injuries aside since theyre unpredictable). Theres a couple that im sure some would argue, but i think the point makes itself. For a cap number that DOES NOT hinder the FO from building a very competitive roster (and only becomes more and more manageable) we've guaranteed to put ourselves ahead of almost every other AFC team when it comes to the most important building block in winning a Super Bowl.

[Tru11]

Well this thread is quite entertaining.

Since he got 3 more years it would be interesting to see how far this thread will go lol

 

anyways 

 

[1/28/01]

6 hours ago, flynismo said:

Pretty much everything is a team accomplishment in football. Stats, wins...but when teams go through complete overhauls, and succeed every year, with the only constant being their QB (see Flacco, Brady, Manning)...well...where there's smoke, there's fire.

That's not true about team accomplishments and we've also not been all that consistent lately.  I don't even understand what this post was saying.  None of it is really true at all. 

[ellicottraven]

With Flacco being the highest paid QB all over again, I can only hope that he starts playing like he's paid. Truth is Flacco didn't play well after his 2012 playoff run and that is a sample size of 4 games (although the most important 4 games). I just want to see him be more consistent in the regular season so we are assured of a playoff berth every year. We've invested way too much in him not to have that expectation.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, ellicottraven said:

With Flacco being the highest paid QB all over again, I can only hope that he starts playing like he's paid. Truth is Flacco didn't play well after his 2012 playoff run and that is a sample size of 4 games (although the most important 4 games). I just want to see him be more consistent in the regular season so we are assured of a playoff berth every year. We've invested way too much in him not to have that expectation.

His best year of his career was probably 2014, so he's certainly played well since 2012. He was, of course, particularly good in the 2014 playoffs (again).

But, yes, more consistency in the regular season would be nice. I'm not expecting some sort of like 5,000 yard, 40 TD season at any point in his career, but if we can get 2011, 2012, 2014 level production, that will be just fine by me.

[757RavensFan]

7 hours ago, Winchester said:

People around here clearly get angry when you do not agree with them. I really like Joe to. But couple things here. How can ravens shout right player right price. Meaning discounts from everybody the ravens sign. Then pay the QB more than any player when he is not a top5 QB. My opinion Joe could put up 4500 yards and 30 TDs. but he needs players around him to do that. Who is going to sign or resign here at a discount?? Every player is trying to get as much as he can.  What player worth a darn is going to sign at the ravens "right price"?? Especially when the QB is the highest compensated player!! While not being a top5 QB. Homers can throw all the team wins out there. But reality is backups produced a higher winning percentage than Joe. The same people saying KO should not try to make all he can are defending joes contract. The same people saying right player right price are applauding joes contract. You seem mature and confident in your argument. You are not getting angry and attacking anybody from behind a keypad. Just sit back and watch Joe and the team struggle yet again when there is no good left tackle or legit receivers. Just as after the Superbowl when joes contract resulted in Boldin being traded. The same Boldin that pulled in a lot of desperation throws in that Superbowl run. The same people applauding the contract will be making excuses for Joe when he struggles saying things like there is no capable left tackle and Joe is getting pressured and there is no #1 receiver. Just like the excuses for the 2013 season Joe cool put up. For the record Im rooting to pay KO and keep the best OLine in the league intact and finding a legit #1 receiver to ignite the offense and fronting the nfls best offense and Joe put up mvp numbers!! But the ravens are not off to a hot start breaking the leagues best and most ruthless OLine because of Joes ridiculous contract. Ravens fans better keep those hopes high for Kyle Arringtons,Kendrek Lewis's and Chris Givens' because that is the extent of players the team will get with that right player right price bull. What player worth anything signs at a discount?? Players nobodyreally wants. Especially when QB is the highest grossing player ever.

Are you even paying attention to what's going on regarding KO and Joe's contract? 

1 - The Ravens presented KO w/ a very aggressive offer BEFORE Joe's contract was addressed.

2 - Joe's ridiculous NEW contract actually helps the Ravens in their attempt at keeping KO. Because it gave them more cap space.  If Joe would have refused to rework his $28M cap hit (which he easily could have done) for this year, there's absolutely NO WAY KO is staying in Baltimore. 

3. You probably should curb your enthusiasm about our O-Line. They're not the BEST and most RUTHLESS O-Line in the league. Most analyst sites don't even have our 2015 O-Line ranked in the top 10. Saying that an O-Line with KO and Jensen (that have VERY limited time together) as the best and most ruthless, really shows your homer-ism.  Give it a break.   

Edited March 7, 2016 by 757RavensFan

[Purple_City39]

2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

With Flacco being the highest paid QB all over again, I can only hope that he starts playing like he's paid. Truth is Flacco didn't play well after his 2012 playoff run and that is a sample size of 4 games (although the most important 4 games). I just want to see him be more consistent in the regular season so we are assured of a playoff berth every year. We've invested way too much in him not to have that expectation.

Whereas Joe definitely has a hand in this, part of the blame also goes to the front office for the talent he's had on offense.  2013 saw Jacoby Jones set to be a starter before his injury and then an undrafted WR was the #2 opposite a 1 trick pony WR.  The o-line was also the worst I think the Ravens have ever had.  I can't see too many QBs playing well in 2013 in Baltimore outside of Rodgers.

[757RavensFan]

2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

With Flacco being the highest paid QB all over again, I can only hope that he starts playing like he's paid. Truth is Flacco didn't play well after his 2012 playoff run and that is a sample size of 4 games (although the most important 4 games). I just want to see him be more consistent in the regular season so we are assured of a playoff berth every year. We've invested way too much in him not to have that expectation.

Truth is Joe had his best year as a pro in 2014 when Kubiak was the OC and he did enough to win the 2014 AFC divisional game. 

[Winchester]

3 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

Are you even paying attention to what's going on regarding KO and Joe's contract? 

1 - The Ravens presented KO w/ a very aggressive offer BEFORE Joe's contract was addressed.

2 - Joe's ridiculous NEW contract actually helps the Ravens in their attempt at keeping KO. Because it gave them more cap space.  If Joe would have refused to rework his $28M cap hit (which he easily could have done) for this year, there's absolutely NO WAY KO is staying in Baltimore. 

3. You probably should curb your enthusiasm about our O-Line. They're not the BEST and most RUTHLESS O-Line in the league. Most analyst sites don't even have our 2015 O-Line ranked in the top 10. Saying that an O-Line with KO and Jensen (that have VERY limited time together) as the best and most ruthless, really shows your homer-ism.  Give it a break.   

Tell you what if KO and Jensen do not dominate I want you to rub it in my face over and over and over!! The ravens should of made one of these so called aggressive strong offers to Joe. Homer?? Lmao I like players I see something in. Not whoever wears a ravens uniform. Pro bowls mean nothing but analysts sights say so!ething??  I do not downplay a player just cuz Ozzie the idiot can not manage a cap and is clueless who to sign. Now when Joe throws as many ints as TDs and ko dominates for the raiders or jags and ravens struggle to manage 7 wins you need to be here front and center. That is why you Homers are so angry. Because you are aware Joe could realistically suck after that contract.And you do not wanna hear it

Edited March 7, 2016 by Winchester
Add on

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, Winchester said:

Tell you what if KO and Jensen do not dominate I want you to rub it in my face over and over and over!! The ravens should of made one of these so called aggressive strong offers to Joe. Homer?? Lmao I like players I see something in. Not whoever wears a ravens uniform. Pro bowls mean nothing but analysts sights say so!ething??  I do not downplay a player just cuz Ozzie the idiot can not manage a cap and is clueless who to sign. Now when Joe throws as many ints as TDs and ko dominates for the raiders or jags and ravens struggle to manage 7 wins you need to be here front and center. That is why you Homers are so angry. Because you are well aware Joe could suck after that contract.

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone, because I could swear I saw this exact same post about Ben Grubbs several years ago. We were doomed, we could never replace him, blah blah blah. 

Jensen plays for the Ravens already, so hopefully he does dominate. KO may very well go somewhere and play great, and that still doesn't mean we should hand him a blank check. This is the real world. 

[757RavensFan]

On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 1:10 PM, Winchester said:

Tell you what if KO and Jensen do not dominate I want you to rub it in my face over and over and over!! The ravens should of made one of these so called aggressive strong offers to Joe. Homer?? Lmao I like players I see something in. Not whoever wears a ravens uniform. Pro bowls mean nothing but analysts sights say so!ething??  I do not downplay a player just cuz Ozzie the idiot can not manage a cap and is clueless who to sign. Now when Joe throws as many ints as TDs and ko dominates for the raiders or jags and ravens struggle to manage 7 wins you need to be here front and center. That is why you Homers are so angry. Because you are well aware Joe could suck after that contract.

Oh the irony!! IF Joe does win 7 games in 2016 w/out KO, that'll be 2 more than the team did this past season WITH KO and Jensen on the team.  

 

 

[flynismo]

5 hours ago, 1/28/01 said:

That's not true about team accomplishments and we've also not been all that consistent lately.  I don't even understand what this post was saying.  None of it is really true at all. 

What's not true? Wins are a team accomplishment, like all the Flacco critics say when that is used as an argument for him. Stats are a team accomplishment as well. Ask any RB how effective they are with no blocking and no pass game to take attention away. Ask any QB how effective they are if the OL and WR are not doing their jobs. Etc etc. It's not like baseball where a pitcher can K a guy with absolutely no help from his team, or a hitter can put one in the stands while his teammates are all sitting on the bench; one man's success relies on another man doing his job in football. I dunno what's untrue about any of that, but okay..

[Tank 92]

53 minutes ago, flynismo said:

What's not true? Wins are a team accomplishment, like all the Flacco critics say when that is used as an argument for him. Stats are a team accomplishment as well. Ask any RB how effective they are with no blocking and no pass game to take attention away. Ask any QB how effective they are if the OL and WR are not doing their jobs. Etc etc. It's not like baseball where a pitcher can K a guy with absolutely no help from his team, or a hitter can put one in the stands while his teammates are all sitting on the bench; one man's success relies on another man doing his job in football. I dunno what's untrue about any of that, but okay..

Just ask Aaron Rogers.

bye the bye...........The catcher does have to catch the third strike for a K. 

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Just ask Aaron Rogers.

bye the bye...........The catcher does have to catch the third strike for a K. 

He also typically calls the pitches for an entire game, so he's essentially the play caller.

Catcher is pretty much the smartest guy on the field at all times.

[Tank 92]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

He also typically calls the pitches for an entire game, so he's essentially the play caller.

Catcher is pretty much the smartest guy on the field at all times.

yup. 

[Winchester]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL, well, yes, they're all in for huge paydays. Most of the guys you listed already have gotten huge paydays...

Cutler averages $18.1M per year, $54M guaranteed

Ryan averages $17.3M per year, $59M guaranteed. His contract is also basically four years old... he'd get significantly more if he got a new deal today.

Tannehill averages $15.9M per year, $45M guaranteed

Bradford just got $18M a year this offseason, and Cousins is making nearly $20M this year.

If you were actually going to compare him to realistic peers, you'd probably want to look at the Roethlisberger/Eli group, since that's the group he belongs in for obvious reasons. He's more comparable from a statistical and postseason success standpoint, with the latter being more valuable to teams for obvious reasons.

Eli gets $20.3M per year, $65M guaranteed, and Big Ben gets $19.8M per year, $64M guaranteed. Joe's new deal pays him $20.8M with $44M guaranteed.

So he makes $1M more a year than Ben and $500K more per year than Eli, with significantly less guaranteed money (the amounts teams tend to focus on).

Kind of hard to get all worked up over $1M a year with a team salary cap of of over $155M. Even if you think he's in the Sam Bradford class (which is kind of funny that anybody actually would for obvious reasons), you're now arguing over less than $3M a year, less than 2% of a teams overall cap space.

You can start to see why these arguments really turn pointless very quickly, because people lose perspective about what they're actually talking about.

 

Not a chance!! Just curious. Obviously I will be happy if Joe plays well and leads to a Superbowl appearance. Although it is very unlikely in my opinion without very strong pieces around him!! And I will bet you to rub my nose in that I was wrong. BUT What if Joe plays absolutely terrible. 2013 terrible or worse and it gets to every fan screaming for Joe being benched?? Would you acknowledge it was a bad deal and Joe needs strong players around him?? And acknowledge it is not a good idea to pay ANY QB Brady Brees Rodgers money unless he impacts a game the same as Brady Rodgers and prime Drew Brees?? And consider it to be a better idea to pay QBs like Joe and Matt Ryan about $15mil a yr tops??

[jazz1988]

1 minute ago, Winchester said:

Not a chance!! Just curious. Obviously I will be happy if Joe plays well and leads to a Superbowl appearance. Although it is very unlikely in my opinion without very strong pieces around him!! And I will bet you to rub my nose in that I was wrong. BUT What if Joe plays absolutely terrible. 2013 terrible or worse and it gets to every fan screaming for Joe being benched?? Would you acknowledge it was a bad deal and Joe needs strong players around him?? And acknowledge it is not a good idea to pay ANY QB Brady Brees Rodgers money unless he impacts a game the same as Brady Rodgers and prime Drew Brees?? And consider it to be a better idea to pay QBs like Joe and Matt Ryan about $15mil a yr tops??

 

What quarterback doesn't need a strong support cast? The last time I check Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and etc needed a strong supporting cast to stay successful. 

[Winchester]

4 hours ago, Virginia 55 said:

I'm not sure what fans you are referring to.  I have never liked Flacco as the face of this franchise and quite frankly i don't think he is capable of shining in that role.  The guy has the most modest numbers of any Qb getting paid that kind of money.  So its simple. Either he's not worth that much or cats like Bortles, Cousins, Ryan, Tannehill, Bradford,Carr, Cutler are all in for huge paydays,because that's the company that Flacco keeps. Super Bowl win or not.

 

For the record the cheaper option was Tyrod, and yes, I think he is better than Joe.

I will bet anybody money with odds that Carr and Bortles ouyplays Joe this year!! Taylor could but I would not bet on it. Garappolo has good numbers on his couple appearances as well.

[jazz1988]

4 hours ago, Virginia 55 said:

I'm not sure what fans you are referring to.  I have never liked Flacco as the face of this franchise and quite frankly i don't think he is capable of shining in that role.  The guy has the most modest numbers of any Qb getting paid that kind of money.  So its simple. Either he's not worth that much or cats like Bortles, Cousins, Ryan, Tannehill, Bradford,Carr, Cutler are all in for huge paydays,because that's the company that Flacco keeps. Super Bowl win or not.

 

For the record the cheaper option was Tyrod, and yes, I think he is better than Joe.

Wow smh  but it's your opinion. You seem to have a   strong obsession with quarterbacks that can make plays with their feet so I'm honestly not surprised you would say that at all.

[Winchester]

22 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

 

What quarterback doesn't need a strong support cast? The last time I check Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and etc needed a strong supporting cast to stay successful. 

Of course but some QBs outperform the competition. Brees threatened the records with a tandem of backup receivers. Clearly in a different class!!

[jazz1988]

Just now, Winchester said:

Of course but some QBs outperform the competition. Brees threatened the records with a tandem of backup receivers. Clearly in a different class!!

He still had   a first round receiver in Brandin Cooks to throw to and Ben Watson whom may be  a ageing tight end but has proving to be productive before in the past as a pass catching tight end.  Brees is one of the most accurate passers in the league but he also has had many years of experience in Sean Payton offensive system unlike Joe Flacco whom still getting used Marc Trestman... Certain offensive systems can maximize a player talent and definitely certain quarterback as well but the receiver still has to get open and it still requires a good position coach to help prepare them as well.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

16 minutes ago, Winchester said:

I will bet anybody money with odds that Carr and Bortles ouyplays Joe this year!! Taylor could but I would not bet on it. Garappolo has good numbers on his couple appearances as well.

What does outplays mean? Could Bortles put up more yards with the best, young receiver duo; a very good TE and run game to boot? Sure, of course he could. But will he be in the playoffs? Probably not. And even if he does, I would guarantee if the game comes down to Jax with the ball against the Pats in the 4th quarter down 5 and under 2 minutes... Bortles will not get anything done.

Flacco's proven he can and will numerous times... and that's where QB's make their money. And who's the better QB? Brees or Brady? Bc over the past 6-8 years Id bet apart from 1 or 2 years Brees has "outplayed" Brady in the regular season... which I can only assume in your words "outplayed" actually means pass for more yards and TDs.

Stafford "outplays" a lot of QBs. Wouldnt wish him on the Browns... guy will never win. Peyton Manning, greatest statistical QB of all time. "Outplayed" pretty much every QB in history, but will forever have the stigma of not being able to get it done in the playoffs. And when he finally won the SB? Absolutely amazing supporting cast around him .

BTW, Brady played like crap at the end of last year when his weapons were hurt. Brees hasnt been Brees since Colston got old and Graham left. Rodgers wasnt typical Rodgers last year with Jordy hurt. Stafford will hurt big time without Megatron. 

Flacco has never had 1 receiver on par with DT, Megatron, Antonio Brown, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Amari Cooper, Allen Robinson, Edelman, Welker, Moss, Gronk, Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, etc... etc...

These elite QBs struggle mightely when you take their toys away. Flacco regularly has beaten them when it counts in the playoffs with equivalents Brady having just Amendola and Lafell. An aging Boldin and a young Torrey Smith is arguably Flacco's best 1-2 punch ever.... and neither cracked 1,000 yards for him (other than Torrey in 2013 when he was literally the only person who could catch).

Knocking Flacco for "needing pieces around him" is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. Other teams get their QB and choose to build  their team around him by giving him weapons in the passing game so they can win and lose on their shoulders alone and put up gaudy passing numbers.

The Ravens have always chosen balance... investing all over the defense and have a run game... and ask Joe to shoulder almost the entire burden of the passing game; getting contributions out of PS level players. And he's done that and it's been successful. If anything it should be a testament to him if you're sane. Bc when it's mattered most - in the playoffs - Joe with a lackluster cast has repeatedly outdueled the greats with their teams designed entirely to make them shine.

[Cville-Raven]

Opinions and all but Tyrod being better than Joe? lolololol

[Cville-Raven]

Just when you thought this thread couldn't get worse...it gets worse.

[Tank 92]

The mind is a terrible thing to lose.

[flynismo]

I hate that I get judged as a Ravens fan because of people like that. We seem to have a reputation as whiners and morons among other fan bases. This thread does nothing but reinforce those opinions of the Ravens fan base.

[757RavensFan]

2 hours ago, flynismo said:

I hate that I get judged as a Ravens fan because of people like that. We seem to have a reputation as whiners and morons among other fan bases. This thread does nothing but reinforce those opinions of the Ravens fan base.

EVERY fan base suffers from this affliction. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by 757RavensFan

[Winchester]

4 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

 

Year in and year out, Ozzie is recognized as one of the best GMs in the league by his PEERS.  I'm going to go on a limb here and say that they know more about NFL football operations and those that succeed at it a lot more than you do.  You're ranting and slandering Ozzie's name for the simple reason that KO, "the nastiest and best LT in the league" (your words), is moving on.  

I wonder what childish rant you would have used if KO decided to stay in Baltimore.  The fact that you think Ozzie makes contract and free agency decisions solely by himself, lets me know you have NO CLUE about what goes on in an NFL front office. 

 

I'm case you have not noticed I said he is not the only input.

Edited March 8, 2016 by MTRavensFan
insults removed

[Tank 92]

I'll just leave this here

http://www.si.com/nfl/2013/09/04/nfl-gm-poll-belichick-newsome

Edited March 8, 2016 by Tank 92

[Moderator 3]

8 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL, thanks, I needed a good chuckle.

This post is great for me. Every time I get yelled at by the mods for attacking people, I'll just copy/paste this and note that it was up for 7 hours.

God forbid we say something mean about fanboard posters, but hey, we're all allowed to blatantly lie about people we don't know and who have accomplished more in their life than any poster ever will. That's all covered under "opinion".

The internet truly is a great place.

 

For the record, you are allowed to disparage Ravens players and FO personnel AS LONG AS it doesn't get excessively personnel or threatening.  You may call a member of the FO an "idiot" if you want.  You can't go much past that, though, and you may never call another member an idiot.  Ozzie gets paid to take a certain amount of abuse.  We don't.