Myles Jack - LB (merged)

[ellicottraven]

50 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

Jack's measurables: 6'1/245 lbs. 33 5/8" arms. 10 1/4" hands.

Can we just draft him already?

33 5/8” arms and 10 1/4” hands? Wow! He’s got bigger hands than Joe Flacco who came in at 9 5/8” hands for a QB! Stunning.

[Sizzlebshu]

1 hour ago, gabefergy said:

Jack's measurables: 6'1/245 lbs. 33 5/8" arms. 10 1/4" hands.

Can we just draft him already?

Negged the other post because it ignores context (you know the crippling knee injury) 

whats sad about these measurements for jack is that he has the tools but doesnt use them consistently while jaylon has lesser tools but used them a bit better imo

Edited February 26, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[Sizzlebshu]

And no im not advocating one over the other here

[rmw10]

Yeah that's a tough weigh in for Smith.  I guess those rumors were wrong.  Still my number one player prior to the injury, but with that and his weigh in, I don't see him as any sort of fit here.  On top of that...

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet  5m5 minutes ago

Difficult day for #NotreDame LB Jaylon Smith, who had his medicals. Ankle & knee nerve issues, teams believe he's out for 2016 -- at least

 

[gabefergy]

3 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Negged the other post because it ignores context (you know the crippling knee injury) 

whats sad about these measurements for jack is that he has the tools but doesnt use them consistently while jaylon has lesser tools but used them a bit better imo

Doesn't use this consistently...ok sure. Jack does pretty much everything you can ask an off the ball linebacker to do and then some.

[gabefergy]

12 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Yeah that's a tough weigh in for Smith.  I guess those rumors were wrong.  Still my number one player prior to the injury, but with that and his weigh in, I don't see him as any sort of fit here.  On top of that...

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet  5m5 minutes ago

Difficult day for #NotreDame LB Jaylon Smith, who had his medicals. Ankle & knee nerve issues, teams believe he's out for 2016 -- at least

 

Oof that's rough. Likely ends up falling out of the first round or even off boards completely if that nerve damage is real.

[GrimCoconut]

50 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Yeah that's a tough weigh in for Smith.  I guess those rumors were wrong.  Still my number one player prior to the injury, but with that and his weigh in, I don't see him as any sort of fit here.  On top of that...

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet  5m5 minutes ago

Difficult day for #NotreDame LB Jaylon Smith, who had his medicals. Ankle & knee nerve issues, teams believe he's out for 2016 -- at least

 

Yep. Ugly weigh-in for sure. Way below what you'd want to see, but he is coming off of an injury so maybe he's lost some muscle mass. It's hard for me to penalize a guy for that when his injury is as recent as it is. Still, not something I like to see. I wouldn't want the Ravens to touch him at this moment, but we'll see what really happens come the draft. So much misdirection and stuff occurs right now. It's hard to know for sure what's real and what's not unless you see it with your eyes. 

[RavensFanMania]

Ian Rappaport just reported that Jalen Smith has nerve damage in his knee and ankle and could be out beyond 2016.  That is devastating news for the kid.  Absolutely devastating.

[January J]

I'm really starting to come around on jack. It's him, Buckner or Spence for me hands down. All 3 of them are the type of game changer we need. Jack's versatility and leadership is much needed. Buckner Is just feirce and Spence provides speed and dominant rushing ability.

[Sizzlebshu]

1 hour ago, gabefergy said:

Doesn't use this consistently...ok sure. Jack does pretty much everything you can ask an off the ball linebacker to do and then some.

Consistently engage and disengage off blocks (edit:unintentionally ironic since thats probably the main issue where those measurements matter)? Just saying. Again that wasn't to bash Jack or you, but the for Jaylon Smith who isn't going to perform and is busy trying to recover from a knee injury I'm not concerned with the weight (which honestly is the only stat mentioned that makes a significant difference). 

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/11327/jaylon-smith

 

So did rotoworld get it wrong, or did the other reporter who reported no nerve dmg get it wrong?

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[Sizzlebshu]

15 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

Ian Rappaport just reported that Jalen Smith has nerve damage in his knee and ankle and could be out beyond 2016.  That is devastating news for the kid.  Absolutely devastating.

meh ninja'd

[Sizzlebshu]

57 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yep. Ugly weigh-in for sure. Way below what you'd want to see, but he is coming off of an injury so maybe he's lost some muscle mass. It's hard for me to penalize a guy for that when his injury is as recent as it is. Still, not something I like to see. I wouldn't want the Ravens to touch him at this moment, but we'll see what really happens come the draft. So much misdirection and stuff occurs right now. It's hard to know for sure what's real and what's not unless you see it with your eyes. 

I mean the weigh in isn't a concern for me. He can't really work out and put on solid/good weight while recovering. What's more concerning is the nerve damage. 

[GrimCoconut]

2 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

I mean the weigh in isn't a concern for me. He can't really work out and put on solid/good weight while recovering. What's more concerning is the nerve damage. 

I agree. I said the same thing in my post that the weigh-in is likely related to his recovery and not being able to workout. The nerve damage is a curious thing. I'm wondering how much is true and how much isn't, but that's an answer we won't have until draft day. 

[gabefergy]

18 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Consistently engage and disengage off blocks (edit:unintentionally ironic since thats probably the main issue where those measurements matter)? Just saying. Again that wasn't to bash Jack or you, but the for Jaylon Smith who isn't going to perform and is busy trying to recover from a knee injury I'm not concerned with the weight (which honestly is the only stat mentioned that makes a significant difference). 

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/11327/jaylon-smith

 

So did rotoworld get it wrong, or did the other reporter who reported no nerve dmg get it wrong?

Yes, Jack does everything you need a WILB to do.

[gabefergy]

18 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

I mean the weigh in isn't a concern for me. He can't really work out and put on solid/good weight while recovering. What's more concerning is the nerve damage. 

The nerve damage is more concerning, but it's not like he got hurt months ago and hasn't been able to work out. Weighing in 227 means his playing weight is in the low 230s. People talking about him weighing in at 245+ seem unlikely even if he wasn't hurt. His frame is lean.

[JoeyFlex5]

23 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Negged the other post because it ignores context (you know the crippling knee injury) 

whats sad about these measurements for jack is that he has the tools but doesnt use them consistently while jaylon has lesser tools but used them a bit better imo

I question whether you have watched tape on both if you truly believe that

[Sizzlebshu]

16 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

The nerve damage is more concerning, but it's not like he got hurt months ago and hasn't been able to work out. Weighing in 227 means his playing weight is in the low 230s. People talking about him weighing in at 245+ seem unlikely even if he wasn't hurt. His frame is lean.

Actually it kind is. Didnt he get hurt in like the end of December

 

i doubt jack played the season at his current weight as well

 

agree that jack is a will, but how much that is valued is up in the air

[Sizzlebshu]

18 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

 

[Sizzlebshu]

36 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I question whether you have watched tape on both if you truly believe that

Yeah clearly I don't watch tape /sarcasm. Fwiw, I've watched other tape on Jack as well, just didn't take notes cause I kinda got a feel for what he was, what he does well, and where he can improve. Tape  is via draftbreakdown for reference

 

Myles Jack vs Blockers

 

 

Good Jack

 

 

USC 2014

 

 

2:27 – Good use of length to swim past a blocker taking a poor angle

 

 

Kansas State 2014 –

 

 

5:30 – 5:40 – Avoids block vs WR (probably due to lack of effort on receivers part)

 

 

Virginia 2015

 

 

3:10 – 3:18 – Jack gets off block and gets rb from behind. May have been sandwiched and squeezed out tho.

 

 

3:55 – 4:00 – Jack uses length well and strong initial punch to evade a block

 

 

4:35 – 4:41 – Does a good job evading a block at the second level

 

 

6:00 – 6:10 – Does a nice job avoiding second level cut block.

 

 

 

 

Bad Jack

 

 

USC 2014

 

 

5:00 to 5:40 – What is happening here? Unable to get off blocks?

 

 

Kansas Sate 2014

 

 

0:00 – 0:20 – Basically bull rushing a linemen, despite having leverage and position does not disengage.

 

 

2:25-2;35 – Jack just goes head first into the blocker it looks like. Does not get off the block. Play goes to the outside of him.

 

 

3:50 – 4:00 – Attempts to get off block and fails. Maybe trying to contain?

 

 

4:20 – 4:35 – a few failed pass rushes.

 

 

4:50 – 5:00 – 66 completely manhandles Jack and Jack is unable to shed him.

 

 

5:50 – 6:04 – Jack is unable to get through traffic and off block to prevent goal line score. In fairness, low liklihood of success anyway.

 

 

6:04 – 6:10 – Jack pass rushing again. Fails to get off block

 

 

7:40 – 7:53 – Jack engages a linemen and gets pushed down the field almost allowing a TD. Gets off the block at the last second and a gang tackle makes the stand. Benefitted from the RB being dumb and trying to ram through him instead of using the blocker to go around (Jack’s strength is notable tho).

 

 

Virginia 2015

 

 

1:30 – 1:34 Jack runs into a blocker and gets pancaked. Loses sight of football?

 

 

1:35  - 1:42 – Jack latches onto a blocker (76) and is taken out of the play essentially (gets off block after play is over). This is despite Jack’s length giving him an initial punch.

 

 

3:30 – 3:35 – Jack gets blocked and is taken out of the play. Unable to shed.

 

 

4:22 – 4:27 – Jack, near LoS. Gets sealed by block and forces run outside. Isn’t able to get outside to chase runner.

 

 

5:20 – 5:25 – I am kind of hoping Jack tripped here because this was terrible. Launches himself into a blocker.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sizzlebshu
Note the terms avoid vs shed

[JoeyFlex5]

lol go watch a ton of tape to form a response and picking and choosing parts. For instance pointing out failed pass rush snaps at DE/OLB when evaluating a guy who will play a ILB/SS role for us and basing your argument off of that while not even bothering to give the evidence of jaylon Smith supposedly using the tools better. 

 

Jack plays tougher, Jack plays bigger, Jack plays stronger, Jack plays smarter, Jack plays far more aggressive, Jack plays faster, Jack plays with more range. Jaylon Smith plays far too tentative in traffic, Jack actually shows the ability to take on blockers even if he doesn't win at a 100% rate, jaylon Smith's tape shows him avoiding blockers at all costs and getting worked when the blockers get their hands on him. I looked for every reason to deny Jack his fair due for a long time but I admit I was wrong, he is absolutely physical enough to play for us while Jaylon Smith, even pre injury, has never shown enough of a hard nose or the willingness in traffic to justify a top 10 pick for a 34 team. He can sniff out lanes and gaps and shoot them very well and does have a better pass rushing skill set, but overall I think he is the less scheme diverse of the 2 and if one of them fails to translate to our system I think it's easily jaylon Smith.

Edited February 27, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[gabefergy]

1 hour ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Actually it kind is. Didnt he get hurt in like the end of December

 

i doubt jack played the season at his current weight as well

 

agree that jack is a will, but how much that is valued is up in the air

January 1 I believe. He's not going to lose 10+ pounds of lower body muscle in less than 2 months.

Jack is bigger all around than Smith, just look at their legs, arms etc. Jack's a lot denser.

When Jack is drafted top 5-10 you will see how much that is valued.

[Sizzlebshu]

13 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

January 1 I believe. He's not going to lose 10+ pounds of lower body muscle in less than 2 months.

Jack is bigger all around than Smith, just look at their legs, arms etc. Jack's a lot denser.

When Jack is drafted top 5-10 you will see how much that is valued.

I don't know if he will go top 5, but top 10 is likely (no real edge rushers or QB's to compete with). Draft is kind of wide open after pick 7 or 8. Have him going to Tampa at 9 right now.  

 

36 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

lol go watch a ton of tape to form a response and picking and choosing parts. For instance pointing out failed pass rush snaps at DE/OLB when evaluating a guy who will play a ILB/SS role for us and basing your argument off of that while not even bothering to give the evidence of jaylon Smith supposedly using the tools better. 

 

Jack plays tougher, Jack plays bigger, Jack plays stronger, Jack plays smarter, Jack plays far more aggressive, Jack plays faster, Jack plays with more range. Jaylon Smith plays far too tentative in traffic, Jack actually shows the ability to take on blockers even if he doesn't win at a 100% rate, jaylon Smith's tape shows him avoiding blockers at all costs and getting worked when the blockers get their hands on him. I looked for every reason to deny Jack his fair due for a long time but I admit I was wrong, he is absolutely physical enough to play for us while Jaylon Smith, even pre injury, has never shown enough of a hard nose or the willingness in traffic to justify a top 10 pick for a 34 team. He can sniff out lanes and gaps and shoot them very well and does have a better pass rushing skill set, but overall I think he is the less scheme diverse of the 2 and if one of them fails to translate to our system I think it's easily jaylon Smith.

How am I picking and choosing? If you mean I didn't watch the UCLA offense (sure but that isn't relevant.). I noted both the good and bad and ignored plays he was in coverage cause they aren't relative to the topic

Pointing out the he couldn't get off blocks while pass rushing is indicative of his ability to shed blocks. So yeah actually its directly relevant to the point which is does he shed blocks consistently? 

Do you want the tape of Jaylon too? I can go and notate it if you like (altho its basically pointless given the injury.) I have Jack notated because I asked Gabe about this before and Gabe gave me some examples that were unsatisfactory. He said there were other examples and was confident in his ability so I went looking and this is part of what I found. Even here we both agree Jack isn't a guy you want taking on blocks, the coaches realized that and put him in a position where he didnt have to, and his best fit is at a position where he is kept clean of them. 

 

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[Sizzlebshu]

14 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

January 1 I believe. He's not going to lose 10+ pounds of lower body muscle in less than 2 months.

Jack is bigger all around than Smith, just look at their legs, arms etc. Jack's a lot denser.

When Jack is drafted top 5-10 you will see how much that is valued.

As someone who bodybuilds, you'd be surprised at how quickly a small amount of weight like that can be put on and off. 10lbs really isn't much (most of the weight gained is usually water anyway). 

Okay, but again what does this have to do with what I said. I said the weigh in wasn't a concern because he was injured and couldn't work to put on wt.

 

 

[gabefergy]

1 minute ago, Sizzlebshu said:

As someone who bodybuilds, you'd be surprised at how quickly a small amount of weight like that can be put on and off. 10lbs really isn't much (most of the weight gained is usually water anyway). 

Okay, but again what does this have to do with what I said. I said the weigh in wasn't a concern because he was injured and couldn't work to put on wt.

 

 

These guys aren't body builders though where the point is to just get big. It's a lot of lean/fast-twitch muscle. You're right that he couldn't put on weight having to rehab, but he might not be able to put on a lot of weight if he wanted to anyways. He's just not thick. 

Like I said, just look at pictures of Jack and Smith. They have two different body types.

[Sizzlebshu]

2 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

These guys aren't body builders though where the point is to just get big. It's a lot of lean/fast-twitch muscle. You're right that he couldn't put on weight having to rehab, but he might not be able to put on a lot of weight if he wanted to anyways. He's just not thick. 

Like I said, just look at pictures of Jack and Smith. They have two different body types.

Putting on weight and taking it off are what bodybuilders do. The concept is essentially the same. Eat more than you burn up to bulk. Eat less to cut. I'm telling you that 10lbs either way isn't a huge deal especially for athletes and that most of it either way is water weight. 

Don't take things so literally. 

 

While that's true, Smith is also taller and Jack isn't significantly longer (in any place in particular) so I highly doubt putting on 10 lbs is out of his reach. 

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[gabefergy]

8 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Putting on weight and taking it off are what bodybuilders do. The concept is essentially the same. Eat more than you burn up to bulk. Eat less to cut. I'm telling you that 10lbs either way isn't a huge deal especially for athletes and that most of it either way is water weight. 

Don't take things so literally. 

 

While that's true, Smith is also taller and Jack isn't significantly longer (in any place in particular) so I highly doubt putting on 10 lbs is out of his reach. 

NFL players aren't bodybuilders. They don't put on weight just for the sake of putting on weight because it will slow them down.

Smith is 1 inch taller, he could probably put on 10 pounds, but he's not going to put on 20 and still be the same type of player.

Jack's legs and midsection are both considerably thicker, which as I am sure you are aware is where the majority of muscle weight is carried in athletes.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, Sizzlebshu said:

I don't know if he will go top 5, but top 10 is likely (no real edge rushers or QB's to compete with). Draft is kind of wide open after pick 7 or 8. Have him going to Tampa at 9 right now.  

 

How am I picking and choosing? If you mean I didn't watch the UCLA offense (sure but that isn't relevant.). I noted both the good and bad and ignored plays he was in coverage cause they aren't relative to the topic

Pointing out the he couldn't get off blocks while pass rushing is indicative of his ability to shed blocks. So yeah actually its directly relevant to the point which is does he shed blocks consistently? 

Do you want the tape of Jaylon too? I can go and notate it if you like (altho its basically pointless given the injury.) I have Jack notated because I asked Gabe about this before and Gabe gave me some examples that were unsatisfactory. He said there were other examples and was confident in his ability so I went looking and this is part of what I found. Even here we both agree Jack isn't a guy you want taking on blocks, the coaches realized that and put him in a position where he didnt have to, and his best fit is at a position where he is kept clean of them. 

 

Taking on tackles to rush the edge is quite a bit different than sniffing out the run lane and engaging then disengaging a blocker to tackle the rb. And I agree that Jack is better in space, however what I'm saying is that he isn't BAD in traffic, and neither is jaylon but Jack is significantly better in traffic than jaylon because he plays a lot more hardnosed by nature. Maybe there was a misunderstanding somewhere..

[Sizzlebshu]

3 hours ago, gabefergy said:

 

[Sizzlebshu]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Taking on tackles to rush the edge is quite a bit different than sniffing out the run lane and engaging then disengaging a blocker to tackle the rb. And I agree that Jack is better in space, however what I'm saying is that he isn't BAD in traffic, and neither is jaylon but Jack is significantly better in traffic than jaylon because he plays a lot more hardnosed by nature. Maybe there was a misunderstanding somewhere..

The concepts of block shedding arent tho. There are time where jack uses his length, gets the punch, and still ends up blocked and being taken out of the play. It really shouldnt happen. 

 

When i point out the pass rushing, i dont expect him to get home as i dont care about that, but i do expect that he can show these concepts to get off blocks

[January J]

Really liked some of jacks interviews at the combine. Seems like a standup guy.