Myles Jack - LB (merged)

[jazz1988]

50 minutes ago, CorvusMagnus said:

Just finished watching a few videos of Derrick Brooks and I definitely see what you mean. The weight is pretty close and he was clearly a coverage machine (most of the highlights were on pass plays and his interception count was rediculous for an ILB). Pretty exciting comp considering Brooks has a good shot at Canton someday soon.

The idea of an ILB who you could trust against everything from slot receivers to burners is really interesting. It reminds me of a play in the last superbowl where Von Miller was able to keep up with a WR on a go route down the sideline. Not many LB could make that play, but Jack could.

That's what Arthur Brown was suppose to be for The Ravens even though Jack may be faster...It' ashame Arthur Brown hasn't live up to expectations.

[RavensFan34950]

48 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

That's what Arthur Brown was suppose to be for The Ravens even though Jack may be faster...It' ashame Arthur Brown hasn't live up to expectations.

I remember I wrote on here a long time ago that I didn't think Art Brown loved the game of Football as much as he should. I got negged hard for that comment, but I guess I was right unfortunately.

[jazz1988]

24 minutes ago, RavensFan34950 said:

I remember I wrote on here a long time ago that I didn't think Art Brown loved the game of Football as much as he should. I got negged hard for that comment, but I guess I was right unfortunately.

Him not panning out doesn't mean he doesn't love the game like he should. He could just be a wrong fit in The Ravens defensive scheme maybe his confidence also got shot after not seeing the field like his second round status may should suggest.  There's plenty of factors why he hasn't pan out but you could be right.

[Jacquouille]

So Myles Jack reportedly won't fully participate in the Combine. Does that change anything?

[usmccharles]

10 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

So Myles Jack reportedly won't fully participate in the Combine. Does that change anything?

No, he will still have the pro-day.  Kind of like BP

[CorvusMagnus]

I can't point to anything specific but Arthur's biggest issue was probably getting stuck behind two quality players with good durability and no glaring weaknesses at the ILB position. His next biggest issue was earning the coaches trust in the run game, which will probably be the biggest hurdle for Jack as well. An ILB who can't at least keep 90% of running plays to short yards isn't going to see the field very often or the other team will just run at him all game long. At least that is the impression I got watching him coming into the season at a higher playing weight then the last.

[GrimCoconut]

3 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

So Myles Jack reportedly won't fully participate in the Combine. Does that change anything?

 

3 hours ago, usmccharles said:

No, he will still have the pro-day.  Kind of like BP

I don't mean for this to sound as aggressive as it'll sound, so just take my word that it's not meant to be, but did it affect Gurley? I know some will say there's no comparison but I beg to differ. Both suffered season ending injuries that prevented their participation in the combine and play positions often viewed as "undervalued" in today's NFL. 

Like Gurley, I expect Jack's stock to be affected accordingly. 

[usmccharles]

33 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

 

I don't mean for this to sound as aggressive as it'll sound, so just take my word that it's not meant to be, but did it affect Gurley? I know some will say there's no comparison but I beg to differ. Both suffered season ending injuries that prevented their participation in the combine and play positions often viewed as "undervalued" in today's NFL. 

Like Gurley, I expect Jack's stock to be affected accordingly. 

Haha that wasnt aggressive at all and i agree. 

[DefensiveMind]

If Ramsey is gone, Jack is my next favorite. If they are both gone, its Bosa... If all three are gone, Ill be sad but we can still get Buckner or Hargreaves 

[gabefergy]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

 

I don't mean for this to sound as aggressive as it'll sound, so just take my word that it's not meant to be, but did it affect Gurley? I know some will say there's no comparison but I beg to differ. Both suffered season ending injuries that prevented their participation in the combine and play positions often viewed as "undervalued" in today's NFL. 

Like Gurley, I expect Jack's stock to be affected accordingly. 

Gurley was a top 10 pick as a RB even though he was expected to miss some time. I don't think the injury had any influence on his stock. Plus Jack should be able to have a pro day unlike Gurley.

[ellicottraven]

10 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

 

I don't mean for this to sound as aggressive as it'll sound, so just take my word that it's not meant to be, but did it affect Gurley? I know some will say there's no comparison but I beg to differ. Both suffered season ending injuries that prevented their participation in the combine and play positions often viewed as "undervalued" in today's NFL. 

Like Gurley, I expect Jack's stock to be affected accordingly. 

I think the more apt Gurley comparison may actually be Jaylon Smith who both had severe knee tears. Although Myles did have an MCL tear, it wasn't quite as severe as Gurley or Jaylon Smith in my opinion.

[gabefergy]

4 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I think the more apt Gurley comparison may actually be Jaylon Smith who both had severe knee tears. Although Myles did have an MCL tear, it wasn't quite as severe as Gurley or Jaylon Smith in my opinion.

Yeah, just saw a tweet today saying a GM didn't believe reports saying Smith would be ready for the season. Considering the timing and extent of the injury a September return never seemed likely. Very similar  scenario as Gurley and he could still go top 10 as well.

[GrimCoconut]

14 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

Gurley was a top 10 pick as a RB even though he was expected to miss some time. I don't think the injury had any influence on his stock. Plus Jack should be able to have a pro day unlike Gurley.

I'm not sure if you're adding onto my comment in agreement or disagreeing with me, but this is exactly what I was saying.

[GrimCoconut]

11 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I think the more apt Gurley comparison may actually be Jaylon Smith who both had severe knee tears. Although Myles did have an MCL tear, it wasn't quite as severe as Gurley or Jaylon Smith in my opinion.

 

5 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

Yeah, just saw a tweet today saying a GM didn't believe reports saying Smith would be ready for the season. Considering the timing and extent of the injury a September return never seemed likely. Very similar  scenario as Gurley and he could still go top 10 as well.

The point is if it didn't affect Gurley then I hardly see how it affects Jack, who suffered a less severe injury and suffered it earlier at that.

[January J]

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 11:08 AM, GrimCoconut said:

 

I would have no issue with takin jack In the first. Would be nice to trade back and grab him but either way. It also doesnt Really bother me that he wont Be participatin In the combine. 

[GrimCoconut]

1 minute ago, January J said:

I would have no issue with takin jack In the first. Would be nice to trade back and grab him but either way. It also doesnt Really bother me that he wont Be participatin In the combine. 

Yeah I don't think it matters much, honestly. If we wanted him before the injury I don't see how we'd pass on him now unless his knee just didn't check out. I doubt that's the case. 

[gabefergy]

5 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

 

The point is if it didn't affect Gurley then I hardly see how it affects Jack, who suffered a less severe injury and suffered it earlier at that.

Yes, I agree. The way you previously worded it made it sound like Gurley's injury did affect his draft which seemed confusing.

[Jacquouille]

I don't think we could grab Myles Jack with a trade back, honestly. Miami seems like a team that would take him without hesitation.

[JoeyFlex5]

5 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

I don't think we could grab Myles Jack with a trade back, honestly. Miami seems like a team that would take him without hesitation.

I honestly don't see him getting past SF after their mass exodus of their front seven including 2 of their starting ILB's in the past 2 years.

[Jacquouille]

9 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I honestly don't see him getting past SF after their mass exodus of their front seven including 2 of their starting ILB's in the past 2 years.

Forgot about SF. I would fear a bit less that SF takes him, because they have so much needs, and because Chip Kelly. But that pick would make a ton of sense for them.

[GrimCoconut]

22 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

Yes, I agree. The way you previously worded it made it sound like Gurley's injury did affect his draft which seemed confusing.

Yeah, I figured you didn't understand my meaning. I probably should've just not been cute with my point and just thrown in a clarifying comment like "Like Gurley, I expect Jack's stock to be affected accordingly--as in not at all." That probably would've been clearer. Ahhh well. 

[BmoreBird22]

I can't see the Ravens taking Myles Jack and it's for three reasons...

1. Inside linebackers quite literally might be the least valuable position in the 3-4 defense. This isn't the Tampa 2 where you're MLB is quite possibly the most important position. No, this is a defense where your linebackers are at the mercy of the defensive line to make plays in the run game or on blitzes (hell, a really good offensive line can really help a bad linebacker in the run game) and while he might have a lot of value in the passing game, a good safety can do everything a linebacker would be asked to do. Just having one good to great inside linebacker is enough for a 3-4 defense. I bet at least 80% of fans watching Ravens games wouldn't notice if Smith subbed out for Brown/Orr/McClellan , but they'll damn sure notice if Upshaw is rushing the passer over Doom or if Williams is in over Jernigan as a pass rushing defensive lineman because the impact is just far greater from those positions.

In short, there just isn't much value in a 3-4 inside linebacker. You won't ever here someone saying, "Hey, we lost the game because our second inside linebacker was bad," but you will hear it if your pass rush is bad or if your secondary is bad. Going back to 2000, not a single 3-4 defense drafted an inside linebacker inside the top 10. 4-3 middle linebackers were drafted in the top 10, but I don't believe any in the top 5.

2. The Ravens didn't outline inside linebacker as a need to target and the Ravens usually stay fairly true to that. Remember in 2013 when Harbaugh said they wanted to improve their inside linebackers and they went out and got CJ Mosley, which no one probably saw coming? The Ravens will usually give a pretty clear message as to which positions they're going to target and it's hard to believe they'd ignore CB, OLB, and WR for an ILB.

3. The Ravens are a linebacker factory. They routinely take undrafted free agents and turn them into serviceable to good players. Bart Scott, Dannell Ellerbe, Jameel McClain, Zack Orr, etc. They just pump them out. Do they really need to take Myles Jack sixth overall when they just pump out linebackers? Why not take a slightly lower rated player, possibly Alexander or Hargreaves, if it means getting them at a position with a greater need and value?

[PurpleCity5]

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I can't see the Ravens taking Myles Jack and it's for three reasons...

1. Inside linebackers quite literally might be the least valuable position in the 3-4 defense. This isn't the Tampa 2 where you're MLB is quite possibly the most important position. No, this is a defense where your linebackers are at the mercy of the defensive line to make plays in the run game or on blitzes (hell, a really good offensive line can really help a bad linebacker in the run game) and while he might have a lot of value in the passing game, a good safety can do everything a linebacker would be asked to do. Just having one good to great inside linebacker is enough for a 3-4 defense. I bet at least 80% of fans watching Ravens games wouldn't notice if Smith subbed out for Brown/Orr/McClellan , but they'll damn sure notice if Upshaw is rushing the passer over Doom or if Williams is in over Jernigan as a pass rushing defensive lineman because the impact is just far greater from those positions.

In short, there just isn't much value in a 3-4 inside linebacker. You won't ever here someone saying, "Hey, we lost the game because our second inside linebacker was bad," but you will hear it if your pass rush is bad or if your secondary is bad. Going back to 2000, not a single 3-4 defense drafted an inside linebacker inside the top 10. 4-3 middle linebackers were drafted in the top 10, but I don't believe any in the top 5.

2. The Ravens didn't outline inside linebacker as a need to target and the Ravens usually stay fairly true to that. Remember in 2013 when Harbaugh said they wanted to improve their inside linebackers and they went out and got CJ Mosley, which no one probably saw coming? The Ravens will usually give a pretty clear message as to which positions they're going to target and it's hard to believe they'd ignore CB, OLB, and WR for an ILB.

3. The Ravens are a linebacker factory. They routinely take undrafted free agents and turn them into serviceable to good players. Bart Scott, Dannell Ellerbe, Jameel McClain, Zack Orr, etc. They just pump them out. Do they really need to take Myles Jack sixth overall when they just pump out linebackers? Why not take a slightly lower rated player, possibly Alexander or Hargreaves, if it means getting them at a position with a greater need and value?

This is why I haven't really predicted Myles Jack coming here much. I wouldn't mind him, but I do prefer the latter in Jaylon Smith who is more than an ILB and can be an OLB for us. On the subject of Jack, I've seen some say like Smith his transition can be possible but I don't see it. He's fast and athletic, but his first step doesn't compare and he lacks pass rushing moves. When I see him get around the tackle, he usually tries to outrun them. I don't natural pass rushing from him honestly. I think Jack is pure as it gets an ILB here and it's just not a big need for us. We need to draft based on need early on IMO, of course you shouldn't reach too far but there are guys at 6 who I think can fill some needs here. 

[BmoreBird22]

6 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

This is why I haven't really predicted Myles Jack coming here much. I wouldn't mind him, but I do prefer the latter in Jaylon Smith who is more than an ILB and can be an OLB for us. On the subject of Jack, I've seen some say like Smith his transition can be possible but I don't see it. He's fast and athletic, but his first step doesn't compare and he lacks pass rushing moves. When I see him get around the tackle, he usually tries to outrun them. I don't natural pass rushing from him honestly. I think Jack is pure as it gets an ILB here and it's just not a big need for us. We need to draft based on need early on IMO, of course you shouldn't reach too far but there are guys at 6 who I think can fill some needs here. 

I feel like he's a very talented player and he could be a great linebacker for a team, but I don't see it being Baltimore. I think Jaylon Smith might be my number one pick for the Ravens, honestly, if he can play at any point during the regular season. If not, then it's Mackensie Alexander for me.

[RaineV1]

I have to completely disagree about ILB not being important in a 3-4. The Ravens have gotten killed by TEs because we don't have a LB that can cover them. Myles Jack is the answer to that, he's the guy that can run with any TE or RB around the field and force the QB to hold onto the ball. Really, he's not just an ILB. He'd be more like having another safety on a field. A bigger Will Hill to help in coverage. In the end the Ravens' defense has gotten slow and horrible at stopping the quick passing game, Jack is incredibly fast and really good in coverage. It's a match made in heaven.

And with the whole Ravens being a LB factory thing, yeah, imagine what they could do if they got a LB that's possibly the best athlete in the draft? He's likely do better than any of the later round and undrafted guys they've used.

When it comes to need, we have Mosley and that's it as far as ILB's go. Daryl Smith is too old and has lost a step, and Orr is a special teamer more than a starting quality lb. If anything happens to Mosley the middle of our defense is going to be one of the worst in the league.

As for need vs BPA, when you're picking in the top 10 you take the best player available. The only exception to this is with QBs. Aside from that, you get BPA and let him be a cornerstone to you team for the next 5 years.

Edited February 25, 2016 by RaineV1

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, RaineV1 said:

I have to completely disagree about ILB not being important in a 3-4. The Ravens have gotten killed by TEs because we don't have a LB that can cover them. Myles Jack is the answer to that, he's the guy that can run with any TE or RB around the field and force the QB to hold onto the ball. Really, he's not just an ILB. He'd be more like having another safety on a field. A bigger Will Hill to help in coverage. In the end the Ravens' defense has gotten slow and horrible at stopping the quick passing game, Jack is incredibly fast and really good in coverage. It's a match made in heaven.

And with the whole Ravens being a LB factory thing, yeah, imagine what they could do if they got a LB that's possibly the best athlete in the draft? He's likely do better than any of the later round and undrafted guys they've used.

When it comes to need, we have Mosley and that's it as far as ILB's go. Daryl Smith is too old and has lost a step, and Orr is a special teamer more than a starting quality lb. If anything happens to Mosley the middle of our defense is going to be one of the worst in the league.

As for need vs BPA, when you're picking in the top 10 you take the best player available. The only exception to this is with QBs. Aside from that, you get BPA and let him be a cornerstone to you team for the next 5 years.

Inside linebackers are important, as is every single position, but the inside linebacker is the least important. Sure, Jack could cover tight ends or running backs, but so could Will Hill. He showed that he could effectively line up against the Jimmy Graham's and Antonio Gates' in 2014. He's a much better man cover safety than deep safety, if you ask me. 

Sure, he probably will do better, just like how CJ Mosley has done better, but even CJ Mosley wouldn't be the make or break difference for an elite 3-4 defense the way a Joey Bosa, DeForest Buckner, or Jalen Ramsey could be. 

So, you're telling me you saw a noticeable difference in the defense if Mosley or Daryl Smith subbed out? Probably not, honestly. You probably didn't even notice they did sub out the majority of the time.

Okay, so let's say the Ravens had a NT rated as a 9.0 and a DE as 8.9. Who are you taking? BPA clearly says NT, but oh wait, they already have a great NT, but hey, they can't take need into consideration with BPA. They're likely to get an elite player or one at the very top of their board (considering they will likely exclude quarterbacks) regardless if he's BPA or just an elite prospect. 

[RaineV1]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Inside linebackers are important, as is every single position, but the inside linebacker is the least important. Sure, Jack could cover tight ends or running backs, but so could Will Hill. He showed that he could effectively line up against the Jimmy Graham's and Antonio Gates' in 2014. He's a much better man cover safety than deep safety, if you ask me. 

Sure, he probably will do better, just like how CJ Mosley has done better, but even CJ Mosley wouldn't be the make or break difference for an elite 3-4 defense the way a Joey Bosa, DeForest Buckner, or Jalen Ramsey could be. 

So, you're telling me you saw a noticeable difference in the defense if Mosley or Daryl Smith subbed out? Probably not, honestly. You probably didn't even notice they did sub out the majority of the time.

Okay, so let's say the Ravens had a NT rated as a 9.0 and a DE as 8.9. Who are you taking? BPA clearly says NT, but oh wait, they already have a great NT, but hey, they can't take need into consideration with BPA. They're likely to get an elite player or one at the very top of their board (considering they will likely exclude quarterbacks) regardless if he's BPA or just an elite prospect. 

Okay, where was Will Hill when Barnidge ripped the Ravens' Defense apart? Where was he when Barnidge did it again? As for seeing a noticable difference, hell yes there'd be a gigantic difference if Mosley subs out for someone like Orr. And the offense would go right after the middle of the defense if they saw that. As for your example, it'd have to be a hell of a NT to be ranked above a great DE.

 

[52520Andrew]

36 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I feel like he's a very talented player and he could be a great linebacker for a team, but I don't see it being Baltimore. I think Jaylon Smith might be my number one pick for the Ravens, honestly, if he can play at any point during the regular season. If not, then it's Mackensie Alexander for me.

So you would argue against Myles Jack because ILB is something we can get easily and then say that Jaylon Smith is your top guy overall? 

[BmoreBird22]

7 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Okay, where was Will Hill when Barnidge ripped the Ravens' Defense apart? Where was he when Barnidge did it again? As for seeing a noticable difference, hell yes there'd be a gigantic difference if Mosley subs out for someone like Orr. And the offense would go right after the middle of the defense if they saw that. As for your example, it'd have to be a hell of a NT to be ranked above a great DE.

Playing deep because Kendrick Lewis was far below serviceable, which is why a FS is pretty paramount to find. With Webb getting a full offseason and the Ravens possibly drafting one, I'd feel far more comfortable that it'd allow the Ravens to play Will Hill in more man to man situations. 

So, you notice it every single time Orr subs in for Mosley? I highly doubt that.

But what if he is ranked highly? What are you gonna do then knowing you have one of the best pure nose tackles in the game?

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

So you would argue against Myles Jack because ILB is something we can get easily and then say that Jaylon Smith is your top guy overall? 

Because I believe that Jaylon Smith can be an OLB. I brought this up over a month ago (not sure the exact time frame), but reports are he might weigh in at 240+, which would start pushing him into the 3-4 OLB conversation.