Myles Jack - LB (merged)

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

Pees tailored the defense more to his players later in the year, so that's not entirely true. Furthermore, it's just as stupid to pass on a potential game changer at LB because of a current scheme and coordinator. Schemes and coordinators constantly change. So no, your point is in fact moot. 

Our DL is pretty exceptional as well. You can't simply eliminate a player from contention as a result of scheme or coordinator because these are constantly changing. There's plenty of relevance you're only blinded by your bias to see it. I certainly see your perspective and even understand it; I just think it's far too narrow minded. 

passing on a game changing ILB for a game changing DB or OLB or DE, i believe, is the much better move. i dont think for one second that myles jack will have a bigger impact for this team than a ramsey, spence, bosa, or buckner. 

 

also, maybe youre looking at my point too narrow minded, i had more concerns than being a 3-4 defense drafting a 4-3 OLB, its a distribution of wealth that i have a problem with, so to speak. we have so many crippling issues on this defense, and while our ILB tandem may be average at best, we still have a stud there in mosley and we have churned ILBs in and out of baltimore like butter, meanwhile our starting OLBs could be za'darius smith and an over the hill dumervil, our starting cb's could be jimmy smith, shareece wright, and god knows who our 3rd would be, our starting safety tandem looks to be webb and will hill, with webb clearly not drawing long term interest from us and will hill is only under contract for another year. i think 1 out of 2 weak ILBs can be masked very easily if you have a pass rush/secondary, but you cant mask the other way around. our secondary and pass rush are simply far too bad for us to think an ILB can make enough impact to get us back to contention, so, why would we take an "equal" talent at a devalued position at a position that is just way down on the list of needs?

[January J]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

That's strangeextremelyofwon'[profanity deleted]'s I use Antriedd Samsu ng S 6 ac tive and use  the default browser with no issues. 

I dont Want to clog up this thread with bug issues But i Use a galaxy core prime. Strange indeed, and Extremely frustrating. I have pretty much just given up  Logging on here while im Out on mobile.  Sucks. I Should have rephrased..bc Now it does "allow" me to do so, but its Very Difficult and time consuming when the cursor Is still Jumping around so much. I Have Tried to just highlight and cut too but wont Let me do that either.

Edited January 29, 2016 by January J

[GrimCoconut]

53 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

passing on a game changing ILB for a game changing DB or OLB or DE, i believe, is the much better move. i dont think for one second that myles jack will have a bigger impact for this team than a ramsey, spence, bosa, or buckner. 

 

also, maybe youre looking at my point too narrow minded, i had more concerns than being a 3-4 defense drafting a 4-3 OLB, its a distribution of wealth that i have a problem with, so to speak. we have so many crippling issues on this defense, and while our ILB tandem may be average at best, we still have a stud there in mosley and we have churned ILBs in and out of baltimore like butter, meanwhile our starting OLBs could be za'darius smith and an over the hill dumervil, our starting cb's could be jimmy smith, shareece wright, and god knows who our 3rd would be, our starting safety tandem looks to be webb and will hill, with webb clearly not drawing long term interest from us and will hill is only under contract for another year. i think 1 out of 2 weak ILBs can be masked very easily if you have a pass rush/secondary, but you cant mask the other way around. our secondary and pass rush are simply far too bad for us to think an ILB can make enough impact to get us back to contention, so, why would we take an "equal" talent at a devalued position at a position that is just way down on the list of needs?

It all depends on whether they're equal talents. If the talent is equal, I'd sooner take an elite OLB than ILB. Of that we fully agree. That said, I think I'd choose Jack over Buckner and I like Buckner. I'm not sure on Spence and Bosa. I like both but they both have holes in their game while Jack's largest hole is how well he fits in the 3-4.

I like to think of myself as pretty open minded and I've always admitted to being wrong before or admitted to bias. I don't think my opinion of your argument as being myopic because your primary argument centered around how he fit this system. If I missed something, though, I'll own up to it. Show me I missed that other argument. 

I don't disagree that we develop ILB exceptionally well but that area of this team was exposed last year and Jack provides a unique element to improve our ability to defend the middle of the field against TE and RB. With Mosley and Jack that would form a dominant duo. Yes, both will likely require deals but you can't just pass on a better player for the reasons you gave.

That said, I'm not arguing we take Jack. Let me be clear I'm very undecided on a specific player I want. I could care less what their position is, I just want a playmaker. 

[JoeyFlex5]

7 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

It all depends on whether they're equal talents. If the talent is equal, I'd sooner take an elite OLB than ILB. Of that we fully agree. That said, I think I'd choose Jack over Buckner and I like Buckner. I'm not sure on Spence and Bosa. I like both but they both have holes in their game while Jack's largest hole is how well he fits in the 3-4.

I like to think of myself as pretty open minded and I've always admitted to being wrong before or admitted to bias. I don't think my opinion of your argument as being myopic because your primary argument centered around how he fit this system. If I missed something, though, I'll own up to it. Show me I missed that other argument. 

I don't disagree that we develop ILB exceptionally well but that area of this team was exposed last year and Jack provides a unique element to improve our ability to defend the middle of the field against TE and RB. With Mosley and Jack that would form a dominant duo. Yes, both will likely require deals but you can't just pass on a better player for the reasons you gave.

That said, I'm not arguing we take Jack. Let me be clear I'm very undecided on a specific player I want. I could care less what their position is, I just want a playmaker. 

i guess you just view jack a lot more highly than i do, i think it may have to do with our current needs because i think this is an extension of our needs from 2014 as well, we saw that our pass rush was lacking because it didnt have that explosive element to it, we couldnt generate quick pressure consistently, that need hasnt been addressed in the slightest and now with suggs tearing his achilles again, it is a need now more than ever. we also had severe problems in the secondary that gave up 2 14 point leads and  took away our shot at another super bowl and that was a continuation this year as well that doesnt look to be getting better, i am not gonna buy into the shareece wright hype just yet, i dont think will hill is here long term, i think lewis and webb are stop gaps at fs, i think brent urban will continue to get injured as he has since college, i think carl davis is still a question mark as his inconsistencies and low motor plagued him this year, canty is a liability and headed out the door and we soon wil have nobody at DE, and i just think those issues are much more severe than daryl smith at ILB, hell even is zach orr was starting next to mosley id still be saying this. and i see ramsey as a guy who can help us cover the middle intermediate area better than myles jack could, and he could bring just as much in run support, while also bringing a great lockdown press ability for the redzone, buckner could become a top 3 defender in the league, i see him very highly and he looks like the most natural scheme fit of any player for us, and i think bosa and spence could just provide a much bigger impact, spence as an OLB and bosa as a hybrid guy, i see everyone i listed except for spence in a tier above jack and i see spence in an equal tier.

[GrimCoconut]

@JoeyFlex5 Nothing wrong with that and that's an argument with which I can agree. Not everyone always sees eye to eye in terms of how good a prospect is, so I'm perfectly fine with your statement here. It's just comments that suggest we should pass on someone because they're not a fit just really get me going.  

I always argue against those arguments because I just find them poor. You have to take the best player and it's the coordinator's job to put them in the best spot to maximize their talent and if they can't then it's time to find a new coordinator. 

I'd really be happy with any of those guys here. You know I think highly of Spence and see him as a future Suggs replacement, while I like Ramsey a lot and I think he could do much for our secondary, potentially functioning as a LB in nickel sets if we need him there. I see Bosa as a better McPhee crossed with Watt. Alexander is a good cover CB. 

Ultimately I'll be satisfied with any decision here. I don't care if it's Jack or Spence or Smith or Buckner or Ramsey--we just better get the best one available because we can't afford to miss. I feel they can all significantly improve our team. I feel they all help this team immediately, which is where I didn't see eye to eye with you with Jack because I see him as an every down player. 

That said if Jaylon Smith can play 3-4 OLB we better take him. He could play ILB or OLB then, and that would be awesome.

[ellicottraven]

59 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

@JoeyFlex5 Nothing wrong with that and that's an argument with which I can agree. Not everyone always sees eye to eye in terms of how good a prospect is, so I'm perfectly fine with your statement here. It's just comments that suggest we should pass on someone because they're not a fit just really get me going.  

I always argue against those arguments because I just find them poor. You have to take the best player and it's the coordinator's job to put them in the best spot to maximize their talent and if they can't then it's time to find a new coordinator. 

I'd really be happy with any of those guys here. You know I think highly of Spence and see him as a future Suggs replacement, while I like Ramsey a lot and I think he could do much for our secondary, potentially functioning as a LB in nickel sets if we need him there. I see Bosa as a better McPhee crossed with Watt. Alexander is a good cover CB. 

Ultimately I'll be satisfied with any decision here. I don't care if it's Jack or Spence or Smith or Buckner or Ramsey--we just better get the best one available because we can't afford to miss. I feel they can all significantly improve our team. I feel they all help this team immediately, which is where I didn't see eye to eye with you with Jack because I see him as an every down player. 

That said if Jaylon Smith can play 3-4 OLB we better take him. He could play ILB or OLB then, and that would be awesome.

Have you guys ever considered Andrew Billings here? I know he isn't considered a top 10 pick at this time, but man this guy is a game wrecker! I shudder to think how any offensive line will contend with the interior rush of Brandon Williams, Jernigan and Billings... Here are some tapes on him. Let me know what you guys think? I think he may be an awesome tradeback option. But, I see his stock going up after the combine.

Physical attributes 6’2” 310lbs

Bench Press - 575lbs     225lbs - 35 reps

Squat 1000lbs

Dead Lift 850lbs

Clean 400lbs

Vertical Jump 31 inches

40 yard dash 4.96

4 star recruit

Prototypical length

Prototypical athleticism

He was born big at 9lb 14 ounces

High School

Bench Press 505lbs

Squat 805 lbs

Deadlift 705 lbs

 

 

[GrimCoconut]

@ellicottraven I really like Billings a lot. He moves so well for a big guy. He's really nimble on his feet. He's an excellent prospect in my view. 

[JoeyFlex5]

billings is filthy, i would love to see him as a true NT, because he clearly has all the traits for it but also moves better than any NT ive ever seen, although im expecting 4-3 teams to consider him for a 1 gap.  

 

and about jaylon smith, if he falls to the 2nd round, id still be a bit weary because that was an ugly injury and i know ACLs arent as severe these days, but that one was BAD, it does concern me, but ozzie would hand that card in before we even get on the clock if he was there and i know it. id be really excited about that but yeah i would have my reservations because of the injury.

[allblackraven]

Based on coaches/scouts opinions that Ragland can run NFL defense from day 1, does anybody think he could be our target in case we trade back in 1st round?

[arnie_uk]

7 hours ago, January J said:

I was addressing him, and the new update will not allow me to shorten quotes. Sorry buck.

It's a directive straight from the mods. See the pinned thread in the draft section. I was told to tell you to stop doing it, I tried once before, so I was more blunt the second time

[GrimCoconut]

26 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

It's a directive straight from the mods. See the pinned thread in the draft section. I was told to tell you to stop doing it, I tried once before, so I was more blunt the second time

 

8 hours ago, January J said:

I was addressing him, and the new update will not allow me to shorten quotes. Sorry buck.

I like using the new @username feature much like in social media better for long posts

[allblackraven]

34 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

 

I like using the new @username feature much like in social media better for long posts

It's not too convenient for people following the convo sporadically - no idea which exactly comment is person replying to.

[January J]

1 hour ago, arnie_uk said:

It's a directive straight from the mods. See the pinned thread in the draft section. I was told to tell you to stop doing it, I tried once before, so I was more blunt the second time

I'm aware they told you to ask..although not sure why they wouldn't tell me themselves. Anyway like I said it's not a problem when I'm not on mobile, but when I am it's like pulling teeth just to get the cursor in the right spot and then it won't stay there, and I cannot highlight and cut. But I will try the new @username feature suggested by grim..but allblack has a point too.

[January J]

2 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Based on coaches/scouts opinions that Ragland can run NFL defense from day 1, does anybody think he could be our target in case we trade back in 1st round?

I actually thought about this too..heard a lot of pundits really pushing Ragland lately saying whatever team chooses him will not be disappointed. 

[ellicottraven]

3 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

@ellicottraven I really like Billings a lot. He moves so well for a big guy. He's really nimble on his feet. He's an excellent prospect in my view. 

The more I see him, the more I want him as a Raven. I'm telling you, this guy is going to be by far the best DT not only in this class, but in a few years maybe all of the NFL.

[allblackraven]

23 minutes ago, January J said:

I actually thought about this too..heard a lot of pundits really pushing Ragland lately saying whatever team chooses him will not be disappointed. 

I think his college tape is better than CJ's. Dude can play and do well lot of different things.

[Winchester]

6 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

It all depends on whether they're equal talents. If the talent is equal, I'd sooner take an elite OLB than ILB. Of that we fully agree. That said, I think I'd choose Jack over Buckner and I like Buckner. I'm not sure on Spence and Bosa. I like both but they both have holes in their game while Jack's largest hole is how well he fits in the 3-4.

I like to think of myself as pretty open minded and I've always admitted to being wrong before or admitted to bias. I don't think my opinion of your argument as being myopic because your primary argument centered around how he fit this system. If I missed something, though, I'll own up to it. Show me I missed that other argument. 

I don't disagree that we develop ILB exceptionally well but that area of this team was exposed last year and Jack provides a unique element to improve our ability to defend the middle of the field against TE and RB. With Mosley and Jack that would form a dominant duo. Yes, both will likely require deals but you can't just pass on a better player for the reasons you gave.

That said, I'm not arguing we take Jack. Let me be clear I'm very undecided on a specific player I want. I could care less what their position is, I just want a playmaker. 

 

7 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

passing on a game changing ILB for a game changing DB or OLB or DE, i believe, is the much better move. i dont think for one second that myles jack will have a bigger impact for this team than a ramsey, spence, bosa, or buckner. 

 

also, maybe youre looking at my point too narrow minded, i had more concerns than being a 3-4 defense drafting a 4-3 OLB, its a distribution of wealth that i have a problem with, so to speak. we have so many crippling issues on this defense, and while our ILB tandem may be average at best, we still have a stud there in mosley and we have churned ILBs in and out of baltimore like butter, meanwhile our starting OLBs could be za'darius smith and an over the hill dumervil, our starting cb's could be jimmy smith, shareece wright, and god knows who our 3rd would be, our starting safety tandem looks to be webb and will hill, with webb clearly not drawing long term interest from us and will hill is only under contract for another year. i think 1 out of 2 weak ILBs can be masked very easily if you have a pass rush/secondary, but you cant mask the other way around. our secondary and pass rush are simply far too bad for us to think an ILB can make enough impact to get us back to contention, so, why would we take an "equal" talent at a devalued position at a position that is just way down on the list of needs?

 

  In my humble opinion a fast tough aggressive 3 down LB is the most underrated position on all of defense!! Coverage is not just the job of dbacks especially in the updated NFL!! Fast tough Linebackers that cover like safety's help the dbacks significantly while disrupting QBs and receivers and contain running QBs in multiple ways!! QBs and receivers do not like Linebackers that drop into coverage zones where LBs are usually of no concern. To the QB and his weapons it feels like there is extra defensive players!! I like Jack in round One except I like Deion Jones in round3 as much as I really liked Telvin Smith and Kwon Alexander. Those LBs beat blocks with explosion and agility and are actually very strong. A little light is not necessarily weak and soft. Telvin and Kwon rock big Running backs as will Jones. Even Kuechky is not quite 240lbs.  And all are successful in coverage.  When Jones bulks to 230 or so he would intimidate running backs and receivers. Would be cool if ravens drafted Deion Jones and signed Nick Perry or traded for Mingo and bulked him up to 255-260lbs. It would give the ravens a team of Young fast Linebackers that can close fast hit and cover. Perry or a bulked up Mingo would excel on the ravens. Harbs would waste no time bulking up Mingo or getting Perry in shape. Either would be considerably better in the ravens system,environment and work ethic. Most ideal would be Derrick Morgan if he were cut as he is a tough intelligent emotional leader. 

[arnie_uk]

Oh c'mon lol

[JoeyFlex5]

Ok so I watched a lot of film while I was at work the past 2 nights, and I've changed my mind on Jack, he is a lot tougher than I gave him credit for, he actually does play with a punch, and when playing downhill he can really deliver a jolt to a blocker, and the ground he covers is incredible. He also diagnoses plays as well as any college lb I have seen. I would be ok with drafting him. 

 

However I still maintain that he gives up far too much ground when trying to pursue laterally in the run game, he struggles to find a lane and just circles around and let's the play advance, I think Mosley can make up for that though because that's what he does best. And I still prefer buckner or Spence by a mile, but I'd be ok with Jack.

[gabefergy]

5 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Ok so I watched a lot of film while I was at work the past 2 nights, and I've changed my mind on Jack, he is a lot tougher than I gave him credit for, he actually does play with a punch, and when playing downhill he can really deliver a jolt to a blocker, and the ground he covers is incredible. He also diagnoses plays as well as any college lb I have seen. I would be ok with drafting him. 

 

However I still maintain that he gives up far too much ground when trying to pursue laterally in the run game, he struggles to find a lane and just circles around and let's the play advance, I think Mosley can make up for that though because that's what he does best. And I still prefer buckner or Spence by a mile, but I'd be ok with Jack.

AHA! glad you are coming over to the dark side. From a need perspective, I would be OK with taking Spence although I very very highly doubt the Ravens take him at #6 with his off the field. It's just not an Ozzie thing to do.

I'm also a big Buckner fan, but I just think Jack impacts the game in more ways and more importantly in more ways that we desperately need. Buckner's biggest asset is his run defense. He's not a slouch as a pass-rusher, but I don't see him as a guy who gets 8-10 sack as an interior rusher. 

The best part is, we can't go wrong with any of them!

 

[CorvusMagnus]

In the unlikely event that Mr. Jack makes it past 5 teams (especially the Cowboys), there appears to be growing faction that would like to draft him (especially if Ramsey/Buckner/Bosa are gone and Jaylon Smith heals slowly).

The most common comp I have heard for Jack is an upgraded Navarro Bowman in terms of build (relatively short and slight for the position) and how he is used (cover specialist in tandem with another larger ILB).

Do you think this comp is fair? Obviously Jack is a superior athlete and an inch taller, but he's even lighter then Bowman who is already small by ILB standards.

[ellicottraven]

It's nice to see the forum slowly but surely warming up to Myles. However, it is entirely likely that he'll be gone by the time we pick. I love Noah and I think he'll make a greater impact as a pass rusher but we can get him by trading back a few positions and adding a pick or two.

[ravensnation5220]

On 1/29/2016 at 2:07 PM, GrimCoconut said:

@JoeyFlex5 Nothing wrong with that and that's an argument with which I can agree. Not everyone always sees eye to eye in terms of how good a prospect is, so I'm perfectly fine with your statement here. It's just comments that suggest we should pass on someone because they're not a fit just really get me going.  

I always argue against those arguments because I just find them poor. You have to take the best player and it's the coordinator's job to put them in the best spot to maximize their talent and if they can't then it's time to find a new coordinator. 

I'd really be happy with any of those guys here. You know I think highly of Spence and see him as a future Suggs replacement, while I like Ramsey a lot and I think he could do much for our secondary, potentially functioning as a LB in nickel sets if we need him there. I see Bosa as a better McPhee crossed with Watt. Alexander is a good cover CB. 

Ultimately I'll be satisfied with any decision here. I don't care if it's Jack or Spence or Smith or Buckner or Ramsey--we just better get the best one available because we can't afford to miss. I feel they can all significantly improve our team. I feel they all help this team immediately, which is where I didn't see eye to eye with you with Jack because I see him as an every down player. 

That said if Jaylon Smith can play 3-4 OLB we better take him. He could play ILB or OLB then, and that would be awesome.

 

On 2/13/2016 at 6:37 AM, JoeyFlex5 said:

Ok so I watched a lot of film while I was at work the past 2 nights, and I've changed my mind on Jack, he is a lot tougher than I gave him credit for, he actually does play with a punch, and when playing downhill he can really deliver a jolt to a blocker, and the ground he covers is incredible. He also diagnoses plays as well as any college lb I have seen. I would be ok with drafting him. 

 

However I still maintain that he gives up far too much ground when trying to pursue laterally in the run game, he struggles to find a lane and just circles around and let's the play advance, I think Mosley can make up for that though because that's what he does best. And I still prefer buckner or Spence by a mile, but I'd be ok with Jack.

You know im honestly almost sure that there are 5 guys who are truly worth the 6th pick, the blue chip recruits who just stand out to me the most are Tunsil, Ramsey, Bosa, Jack, and Buckner. Its hard to put them in any order but i think thats the best order i could come up with. Im really split between buckner and jack but jacks athleticism puts him ahead and i could even put both of them ahead of bosa. I still think he has his limitations to what he can do. Anyways i feel like one of them if not 2 are bound to be there at 6 and if not then we should trade back and go with the teir 2 group which includes vh3, spence, Stanley, billings or treadwell. Even if one of those top 5 prospects are there at 6 teams could try to give a lot up for a player of that caliber. If buckner falls to 6 the giants may want to trade up from 10 to snag him and may have to give up more than they should and we could walk away with a second teir player and more picks. But too me. If any of those blue chips are there you have to take that player. 

[Clmraven]

Per NFL.COM, Jack has been training for the combine drills but didn't get medical clearance so he will only do interviews, medical checks and the bench press, not a huge deal considering everyone knows he's a great athlete, I'm more interested in what he weighs I would hope he'd be at least 235lbs if not more.

[DomMcRaven]

Medical clearance issues, huh? 7th round it is.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes I'm joking.

[gabefergy]

15 minutes ago, Clmraven said:

Per NFL.COM, Jack has been training for the combine drills but didn't get medical clearance so he will only do interviews, medical checks and the bench press, not a huge deal considering everyone knows he's a great athlete, I'm more interested in what he weighs I would hope he'd be at least 235lbs if not more.

That's too bad. I was looking forward to seeing him tear it up. I'm sure he will get a Pro Day in though.

[JoeyFlex5]

23 hours ago, CorvusMagnus said:

In the unlikely event that Mr. Jack makes it past 5 teams (especially the Cowboys), there appears to be growing faction that would like to draft him (especially if Ramsey/Buckner/Bosa are gone and Jaylon Smith heals slowly).

The most common comp I have heard for Jack is an upgraded Navarro Bowman in terms of build (relatively short and slight for the position) and how he is used (cover specialist in tandem with another larger ILB).

Do you think this comp is fair? Obviously Jack is a superior athlete and an inch taller, but he's even lighter then Bowman who is already small by ILB standards.

Derrick Brooks comes to mind for me. But a next gen version who doesn't play coverage linebacker but a linebacker who can literally play in the secondary

[RavensFanMania]

31 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Derrick Brooks comes to mind for me. But a next gen version who doesn't play coverage linebacker but a linebacker who can literally play in the secondary

Brooks is a great comp

[CorvusMagnus]

Just finished watching a few videos of Derrick Brooks and I definitely see what you mean. The weight is pretty close and he was clearly a coverage machine (most of the highlights were on pass plays and his interception count was rediculous for an ILB). Pretty exciting comp considering Brooks has a good shot at Canton someday soon.

The idea of an ILB who you could trust against everything from slot receivers to burners is really interesting. It reminds me of a play in the last superbowl where Von Miller was able to keep up with a WR on a go route down the sideline. Not many LB could make that play, but Jack could.

[CalvinSmoke]

If we where able to grab him I'd be so freaking happy. I pray he bombs his limited combine so we can nab him in the 2nd.